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OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 2:54:10 AM   
dorjun driver


Posts: 641
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Port Townsend: hex 210,51
Status: offline
Raising the flag on Iwo.



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The paths of glory may lead you to the grave, but the paths of duty may not get you anywhere.
JT
Post #: 1
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 3:02:42 AM   
nate25


Posts: 1191
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline
Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.

(in reply to dorjun driver)
Post #: 2
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 3:32:38 AM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline
i liked the lego-men version, & the jack-o-lantern.

i've bought a number of tasty books from the usni, it's worth checking them out regularly, stuff is often on sale.

(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 3
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:27:35 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
And those men fought, and most of them died on iwo Jima, to preserve the right of people do do whatever they wanted with that image.

Afterall, it was a staged flag raising.

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Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 4
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:29:09 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
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quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.


No politics are allowed in Matrix forums. Thank you.

_____________________________


(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 5
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:32:48 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
Why doese everyone think they are a moderator??

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(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 6
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:38:11 AM   
GaryChildress

 

Posts: 6830
Joined: 7/17/2005
From: The Divided Nations of Earth
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quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Why doese everyone think they are a moderator??


Am I wrong? Is politics now allowed in the forum?

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Post #: 7
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 5:13:02 AM   
Capt Cliff


Posts: 1791
Joined: 5/22/2002
From: Northwest, USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Why doese everyone think they are a moderator??


Because what you said can and should be debated. Staged? This thread needs to be locked ... now!

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Capt. Cliff

(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 8
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 6:09:12 AM   
JeffroK


Posts: 6391
Joined: 1/26/2005
Status: offline
??

The second flag raising, which was photographed and immortalized, was staged so that a photograph could be taken by the press.

??

Freedom of speech as long as it doesnt step on any toes.

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Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum

(in reply to Capt Cliff)
Post #: 9
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 10:09:55 AM   
dorjun driver


Posts: 641
Joined: 4/20/2006
From: Port Townsend: hex 210,51
Status: offline
Y'all oughta get out more.

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The paths of glory may lead you to the grave, but the paths of duty may not get you anywhere.
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(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 10
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 10:40:58 AM   
Empire101


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

And those men fought, and most of them died on iwo Jima, to preserve the right of people do do whatever they wanted with that image.

Afterall, it was a staged flag raising.


Here here!!
Why are people getting so hot under the collar?

The images dorjun has posted is just for information.
We should all gaze upon that image and just remember for a few moments, the true horror of Iwo Jima,( Iwo Jima being just one of a thousand such battles), and what those guys went through to secure that strategically important island.
We should also remember the Japanese too,( for after all, were they not fighting for their country as well?) as they endured the same horrors and hardship.
Let us hope and pray it never happens again.


_____________________________

Our lives may be more boring than those who lived in apocalyptic times,
but being bored is greatly preferable to being prematurely dead because of some ideological fantasy.
- Michael Burleigh


(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 11
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 2:14:38 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.


Nope, just some things are not funny.

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'When in doubt...attack!'

(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 12
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:10:34 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1191
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.


No politics are allowed in Matrix forums. Thank you.


Where is the political statement here?

These topics are brought to the forum to share with others and be discussed, or not, with the forum. This one hit me in the gut (No reflection on you, dorjun driver. It WAS interesting.).

Don't chastise someone until they've actually done something wrong.

Nate

(in reply to GaryChildress)
Post #: 13
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:12:43 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Why doese everyone think they are a moderator??


Because WE ALL ARE MODERATORS Jeff! And we should all be moderating our own behavior. That's called "being a responsible adult". And when we slip, which as human beings we will (called "being human") our friends will remind us. That's called "being a good neighbor".

OK...so you goofed. Apologize , and move on. Your only human. Be a good sport about it.

_____________________________


(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 14
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:12:48 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline
Mmmmmm.....butter!

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Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to Shark7)
Post #: 15
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:14:48 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeffK

??

The second flag raising, which was photographed and immortalized, was staged so that a photograph could be taken by the press.

??

Freedom of speech as long as it doesnt step on any toes.



I belive the term is "re-enacted". "Staged" immplies something Nefarious. There's the problem. Only words. But words are very powerful. I like to say that "words are the only magic left in our world".

_____________________________


(in reply to JeffroK)
Post #: 16
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:15:56 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.


No politics are allowed in Matrix forums. Thank you.


Where is the political statement here?

These topics are brought to the forum to share with others and be discussed, or not, with the forum. This one hit me in the gut (No reflection on you, dorjun driver. It WAS interesting.).

Don't chastise someone until they've actually done something wrong.

Nate



As I said earlier. "Staged" versus "re-enacted". Powerful words, incautiously used.

_____________________________


(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 17
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 4:33:10 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1191
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.


No politics are allowed in Matrix forums. Thank you.


Where is the political statement here?

These topics are brought to the forum to share with others and be discussed, or not, with the forum. This one hit me in the gut (No reflection on you, dorjun driver. It WAS interesting.).

Don't chastise someone until they've actually done something wrong.

Nate



As I said earlier. "Staged" versus "re-enacted". Powerful words, incautiously used.


AW1Steve,

We're obviously talking about two things now.

1. An individual accusing another of a "political statement" where none had been made. I simply gave the opinion some of the pics disagreed with me. No diatribe on political beliefs was offered.

2. The use of the words "staged" vs. "re-enacted". Most, and I say MOST people that post on this forum understand the history behind the photo. As one of those people I never gave "staged" a second thought. I knew what was inferred. I think most of us here would as well.

So in order for this to be done, and for the sake of JeffK, who I seem to have drug into this without his consent, I apologise for my part.

Thanks,
Nate


(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 18
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 5:13:06 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.


No politics are allowed in Matrix forums. Thank you.


Where is the political statement here?

These topics are brought to the forum to share with others and be discussed, or not, with the forum. This one hit me in the gut (No reflection on you, dorjun driver. It WAS interesting.).

Don't chastise someone until they've actually done something wrong.

Nate



As I said earlier. "Staged" versus "re-enacted". Powerful words, incautiously used.


AW1Steve,

We're obviously talking about two things now.

1. An individual accusing another of a "political statement" where none had been made. I simply gave the opinion some of the pics disagreed with me. No diatribe on political beliefs was offered.

2. The use of the words "staged" vs. "re-enacted". Most, and I say MOST people that post on this forum understand the history behind the photo. As one of those people I never gave "staged" a second thought. I knew what was inferred. I think most of us here would as well.

So in order for this to be done, and for the sake of JeffK, who I seem to have drug into this without his consent, I apologise for my part.

Thanks,
Nate





"MOST"? I'm not sure I agree with you. A very large percentage of people who read this forum read English as a second language. Please keep that in mind. Many arguments over the years here have been as a result among "mistraslations". Even among native English speakers you should always keep in mind that "The Queen's English", "Americanized English" and the many other "Englishes" have the same word that means different things. As you've not been with us for all that long Nate, learn from the mistakes of others that have been here a while. Always try to be as clear as possible, consider what effect what you say may have on ALL others, not just Mid-Americans. And never hexitate to apologize when you have either made a mistake, or have been misconstrued. Be a good nieghbor, and you'll find lots of good friends here.

As far as the political statement goes, again those of us who've been here a while are "hyper-sensitive" to political statements, to the point of heading off anything that remotely heads in the direction of being political. The rule is , if one person considers it's political....then it's political. The alternative is a flame war and the thread being locked. No one benefits. So show some restraint and sensitivity. If a person says that they are offended. Take them at their word. Don't argue with them. They (and no one else) will thank you when the thread gets locked.

What Gary wanted to convey was , "Be careful, were are getting political". That's a warning to , well, becareful. Not an initiation to debate who should be offended and why.

_____________________________


(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 19
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 5:48:10 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1191
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.


No politics are allowed in Matrix forums. Thank you.


Where is the political statement here?

These topics are brought to the forum to share with others and be discussed, or not, with the forum. This one hit me in the gut (No reflection on you, dorjun driver. It WAS interesting.).

Don't chastise someone until they've actually done something wrong.

Nate



As I said earlier. "Staged" versus "re-enacted". Powerful words, incautiously used.


AW1Steve,

We're obviously talking about two things now.

1. An individual accusing another of a "political statement" where none had been made. I simply gave the opinion some of the pics disagreed with me. No diatribe on political beliefs was offered.

2. The use of the words "staged" vs. "re-enacted". Most, and I say MOST people that post on this forum understand the history behind the photo. As one of those people I never gave "staged" a second thought. I knew what was inferred. I think most of us here would as well.

So in order for this to be done, and for the sake of JeffK, who I seem to have drug into this without his consent, I apologise for my part.

Thanks,
Nate





"MOST"? I'm not sure I agree with you. A very large percentage of people who read this forum read English as a second language. Please keep that in mind. Many arguments over the years here have been as a result among "mistraslations". Even among native English speakers you should always keep in mind that "The Queen's English", "Americanized English" and the many other "Englishes" have the same word that means different things. As you've not been with us for all that long Nate, learn from the mistakes of others that have been here a while. Always try to be as clear as possible, consider what effect what you say may have on ALL others, not just Mid-Americans. And never hexitate to apologize when you have either made a mistake, or have been misconstrued. Be a good nieghbor, and you'll find lots of good friends here.

As far as the political statement goes, again those of us who've been here a while are "hyper-sensitive" to political statements, to the point of heading off anything that remotely heads in the direction of being political. The rule is , if one person considers it's political....then it's political. The alternative is a flame war and the thread being locked. No one benefits. So show some restraint and sensitivity. If a person says that they are offended. Take them at their word. Don't argue with them. They (and no one else) will thank you when the thread gets locked.

What Gary wanted to convey was , "Be careful, were are getting political". That's a warning to , well, becareful. Not an initiation to debate who should be offended and why.



AW1Steve,

I like your sig, by the way. I believe we're there now.

An apology was made for stirring the pot, however unintentional it was.

To even be here indicates to me more than a passing interest in the Pacific war and the history that goes along with it. Whether you speak English, German, or Mandarin the information is out there at your fingertips. So, I believe more know than don't know (in this case about the two flag raisings on Iwo). Not to mention the global saturation of these image(s).

Thanks,
Nate


(in reply to AW1Steve)
Post #: 20
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 6:31:58 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline
When Joe Rosenthal was asked if the photo was 'staged' he replied 'yes'. However he was referring to the posed photo he took of the marines after the first raising of the smaller flag. Hadn't realised they were referring to the second, larger flag raising that became the famous photograph. I alway find it hilarious that this controversy continues. If one looks at the color film taken of the second flag raising one can clearly see that would be next to impossible to stage the photograph. Joe also stated that if he had posed the photo he would have done so as to see the faces of the men doing the flag raising.

Several years ago I was honored to meet Charles Lindberg who was the last surviving memeber of the platoon that went up Suribachi. He was here here to dedicate the World War II memorial in East Grand Forks. He was originally from Grand Forks when he enlisted and resided in the Twin Cities years later. I brought along a book of Iwo Jima and he signed the posed photograph. He is standing in upper left with carbine. There is also another posed shot of most of the platoon cheering under the first flag. It was wonderful to watch Charles point to members member in the several photographs and name then. It really gave a personal perspective to the momment up on Suribachi. Charles Lindberg also backed up the statements that the second flag raising was not staged or posed. They photographers were just aware that second raising was going to happen with a larger flag and were (prepared) for the the men to raise the flag. And that is all there is to it. No more. No less.
But I'm sure this will come up again next year as it has every year in the past.

The next one coming up is 18 April. Who really shot down Admiral Yamamoto?

_____________________________

This is one Czech that doesn't bounce.

(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 21
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 6:52:06 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

Who really shot down Admiral Yamamoto?
Warspite1

Wasn't me......

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Schanilec)
Post #: 22
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 6:56:25 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline
And I have an alibi.

_____________________________

This is one Czech that doesn't bounce.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 23
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 7:00:38 PM   
USSAmerica


Posts: 18715
Joined: 10/28/2002
From: Graham, NC, USA
Status: offline
Wasn't that the first victim of Oswald's single bullet?

_____________________________

Mike

"Good times will set you free" - Jimmy Buffett

"They need more rum punch" - Me


Artwork by The Amazing Dixie

(in reply to Schanilec)
Post #: 24
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 7:07:53 PM   
warspite1


Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

And I have an alibi.
Warspite1

Prove it, Schanilec. You're protestations of innocence sound pretty hollow to me

_____________________________

England expects that every man will do his duty. Horatio Nelson October 1805



(in reply to Schanilec)
Post #: 25
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 7:08:21 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1191
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline
This was a pointless arguement.

I was upset with baseless accusations. Should've had a tougher hide.

Lesson learned.

Thanks,
Nate

(in reply to USSAmerica)
Post #: 26
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 8:49:06 PM   
Dixie


Posts: 10303
Joined: 3/10/2006
From: UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

Who really shot down Admiral Yamamoto?
Warspite1

Wasn't me......


It was like that when I got there...

_____________________________



Bigger boys stole my sig

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 27
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 9:11:35 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: AW1Steve


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25


quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress


quote:

ORIGINAL: nate25

Some of those make me sick.

Guess I'm getting old and my political views outdated.


No politics are allowed in Matrix forums. Thank you.


Where is the political statement here?

These topics are brought to the forum to share with others and be discussed, or not, with the forum. This one hit me in the gut (No reflection on you, dorjun driver. It WAS interesting.).

Don't chastise someone until they've actually done something wrong.

Nate



As I said earlier. "Staged" versus "re-enacted". Powerful words, incautiously used.


AW1Steve,

We're obviously talking about two things now.

1. An individual accusing another of a "political statement" where none had been made. I simply gave the opinion some of the pics disagreed with me. No diatribe on political beliefs was offered.

2. The use of the words "staged" vs. "re-enacted". Most, and I say MOST people that post on this forum understand the history behind the photo. As one of those people I never gave "staged" a second thought. I knew what was inferred. I think most of us here would as well.

So in order for this to be done, and for the sake of JeffK, who I seem to have drug into this without his consent, I apologise for my part.

Thanks,
Nate





"MOST"? I'm not sure I agree with you. A very large percentage of people who read this forum read English as a second language. Please keep that in mind. Many arguments over the years here have been as a result among "mistraslations". Even among native English speakers you should always keep in mind that "The Queen's English", "Americanized English" and the many other "Englishes" have the same word that means different things. As you've not been with us for all that long Nate, learn from the mistakes of others that have been here a while. Always try to be as clear as possible, consider what effect what you say may have on ALL others, not just Mid-Americans. And never hexitate to apologize when you have either made a mistake, or have been misconstrued. Be a good nieghbor, and you'll find lots of good friends here.

As far as the political statement goes, again those of us who've been here a while are "hyper-sensitive" to political statements, to the point of heading off anything that remotely heads in the direction of being political. The rule is , if one person considers it's political....then it's political. The alternative is a flame war and the thread being locked. No one benefits. So show some restraint and sensitivity. If a person says that they are offended. Take them at their word. Don't argue with them. They (and no one else) will thank you when the thread gets locked.

What Gary wanted to convey was , "Be careful, were are getting political". That's a warning to , well, becareful. Not an initiation to debate who should be offended and why.



AW1Steve,

I like your sig, by the way. I believe we're there now.

An apology was made for stirring the pot, however unintentional it was.

To even be here indicates to me more than a passing interest in the Pacific war and the history that goes along with it. Whether you speak English, German, or Mandarin the information is out there at your fingertips. So, I believe more know than don't know (in this case about the two flag raisings on Iwo). Not to mention the global saturation of these image(s).

Thanks,
Nate





Thanks. My sig was done by the uncomparable and very generous Dixie. I suspect he was trying to tell me something.

_____________________________


(in reply to nate25)
Post #: 28
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 9:12:07 PM   
AW1Steve


Posts: 14507
Joined: 3/10/2007
From: Mordor Illlinois
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dixie


quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

Who really shot down Admiral Yamamoto?
Warspite1

Wasn't me......


It was like that when I got there...


But you did draw the pitures, didn't you?

_____________________________


(in reply to Dixie)
Post #: 29
RE: OT - From the Halls of whom? - 2/24/2012 9:13:02 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: warspite1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Schanilec

And I have an alibi.
Warspite1

Prove it, Schanilec. You're protestations of innocence sound pretty hollow to me


I was at chior practice that day. Trust me.

_____________________________

This is one Czech that doesn't bounce.

(in reply to warspite1)
Post #: 30
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