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ACMs, how many do you need?

 
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ACMs, how many do you need? - 2/29/2012 1:34:22 AM   
DRF99


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/3/2009
Status: offline 		Hi,

I'm playing Japan v the Allied AI using DaBabesLite. This is my first time as a JFB and I'm trying to get up to speed on the whole Japanese economy and production thing.

The question of the day is how many ACM tenders do I need. Japan starts with mines in 29 ports and only 18 ACMs. Given the ratio of 150 mines/tender I figure you need about 61 more ACM to service them all.

How many ACM do people like to build/convert? Any thoughts and suggestions welcome.

Mines Original ACM present at start
Hakodate 297
Tokyo 475
Yokohama/Yokosuka 334
Nagoya 435
Maizuru 249 1 ACM
Osaka/Kyoto 492 1 ACM
Kobe 475
Shimonoseki 430
Fukuoka 475
Keijo 190
Kagosima 194
Nagasaki 348 2 ACM
Port Arthur 430
Tsingtao 192
Tientsin 244
Shanghai 330
Nanking 194
Taihoku 192
Hankow 190
Takao 194
Pescadores 243 1 ACM
Canton 238
Cam Ranh Bay 238
Saigon 244 1 ACM
Bangkok 192
Truk 294 2 ACM
Ominato 250 4 ACM
Hiroshima 450 4 ACM
Fusan 200 2 ACM

JFB follow-up question:
Unless I'm missing something, Tracker says that only the To'su class can be converted to ACM and in order to get enough ACM to maintain all the minefields you'ld have to convert just about all of them.

Are there any other options I'm missing?

Thanks,
DRF
Post #: 1
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 2/29/2012 3:24:46 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline 		I choose To'su for ACM because of its short range and small cargo capacity. While this matters when it comes to escort or transport duty, it doesn't matter for ACMs.
My goal is to replace other ACMs with to'su asap

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to DRF99)
Post #: 2
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 2/29/2012 6:41:26 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		I use mostly the Kiso AKLs for ACMs although around 5 to 7 percent will be used as xPB's and a few for Amc's.  The Ansyu-Cs will be doing the bulk of longer distance escort service with some Tosu's for shorter runs. The thing about the starting minefields atleast the way I view it is some you'll have to let whither away on the vine. Focus on your most important ports and choke points mine them and have ACMs there as well. Going from memory I think I counted I need 64 ACMs the first 6 months. You'll never have as many as you want or need but it's part of the beauty of playing this side.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 2/29/2012 6:52:26 PM >

_____________________________

"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 3
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 1:22:32 AM   
DRF99


Posts: 90
Joined: 9/3/2009
Status: offline 		Thanks, SuluSea,

That's helpful. I played through the GC as the Allies against the AI mainly ignoring mine warfare. Playing the Japanese side you have to dive into so many aspects that I figured that I might as well figure out mines also.

Cheers,

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 4
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 10:22:07 AM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline 		I notice even one ACM to 150 mines does not stop decay of mines totally some still vanish

(in reply to DRF99)
Post #: 5
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 10:57:42 AM   
koniu


Posts: 2763
Joined: 2/28/2011
From: Konin, Poland, European Union
Status: offline 		ACMs need fuel in port to tend minefield.

< Message edited by koniu -- 3/1/2012 10:59:37 AM >

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
Post #: 6
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 12:54:58 PM   
Disco Duck


Posts: 552
Joined: 11/16/2004
From: San Antonio
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I notice even one ACM to 150 mines does not stop decay of mines totally some still vanish



I have noticed that too. I think the number is more like 100 to each acm

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
Post #: 7
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 1:57:20 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline
What will happen if I neglect minefields? I am playing as Japan against historical difficulty AI

Will the AI start sending subs inside my ports?

thanks

(in reply to Disco Duck)
Post #: 8
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 2:20:10 PM   
Cavalry Corp

 

Posts: 3107
Joined: 9/2/2003
From: Sampford Spiney Devon UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Disco Duck


quote:

ORIGINAL: cavalry

I notice even one ACM to 150 mines does not stop decay of mines totally some still vanish



I have noticed that too. I think the number is more like 100 to each acm



I am pretty sure it says 150 in the manual.

(in reply to Disco Duck)
Post #: 9
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 2:23:38 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline 		This is from the manual guys,

6.6.1.2 MINEFIELD MAINTENANCE:
Minefields decay over time, but can be maintained by appropriate Minefield Tender ships.
6.6.1.2.1 MINEFIELD DECAY.
The number of mines in a minefield in deep water decays by 33% per day, in shallow water by 5% per day, and in friendly bases with at least a size 1 port by 1% per day.
6.6.1.2.2 MINEFIELD TENDERS.
A special class of ships, Minefield Tenders (ACM type) reduces the decay rate of minefields at bases. Each ACM can protect (i.e. service and repair) 150 mines from decay. Multiple ACMs may be stacked in a base to protect more mines. ACMs must be disbanded into a base to protect mines there – ACMs will not protect mines while in a task force at the base.

On another note.... Koniu nails it if no fuel at the base ACMs will not tend mines. Keep in mind it's possible to lose or severely damage an ACM due to mine mishandling so read the reports after each turn or you may miss it.

< Message edited by SuluSea -- 3/1/2012 2:28:45 PM >

_____________________________

"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

(in reply to Cavalry Corp)
Post #: 10
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 5:15:59 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

I use mostly the Kiso AKLs for ACMs although around 5 to 7 percent will be used as xPB's and a few for Amc's.  The Ansyu-Cs will be doing the bulk of longer distance escort service with some Tosu's for shorter runs. The thing about the starting minefields atleast the way I view it is some you'll have to let whither away on the vine. Focus on your most important ports and choke points mine them and have ACMs there as well. Going from memory I think I counted I need 64 ACMs the first 6 months. You'll never have as many as you want or need but it's part of the beauty of playing this side.

Is there any reason to use Kisos?
I don't have the game open, but afaik, Kisos are the only conversion PBs that have 3 instead of 2 DCs, right?
Also, why would you waste a longer legged ship as immobile ACM when you can use the shorter legged ones?

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 11
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 5:59:12 PM   
SuluSea


Posts: 2358
Joined: 11/17/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

I use mostly the Kiso AKLs for ACMs although around 5 to 7 percent will be used as xPB's and a few for Amc's.  The Ansyu-Cs will be doing the bulk of longer distance escort service with some Tosu's for shorter runs. The thing about the starting minefields atleast the way I view it is some you'll have to let whither away on the vine. Focus on your most important ports and choke points mine them and have ACMs there as well. Going from memory I think I counted I need 64 ACMs the first 6 months. You'll never have as many as you want or need but it's part of the beauty of playing this side.

Is there any reason to use Kisos?
I don't have the game open, but afaik, Kisos are the only conversion PBs that have 3 instead of 2 DCs, right?
Also, why would you waste a longer legged ship as immobile ACM when you can use the shorter legged ones?


Hi Historiker, there's more than one way to skin a cat, my thoughts are.

I like matching speed if possible and don't like using the 11 knot Kiso's with faster transports. I have some as xPBs though.
As you stated the dilemma is 3 DC's instead of 2. In a perfect world we have both but we have to make a choice that fits our gaming style.

Since the To'su xPBs have a 42 hex range they can make it anywhere I'll need them to be with one refuel or less. I'll take that with the added speed benefit over the Kiso xPB's

Another thing to note is if you change a Kiso-E to ACM you always have a choice to change it to another conversion for some reason when the To'su's are changed to ACM's you lose the option to convert if a need arises.

Thanks, as always I'm looking to make changes to my effort to improve so enjoying the conversation.

_____________________________

"There’s no such thing as a bitter person who keeps the bitterness to himself.” ~ Erwin Lutzer

(in reply to Historiker)
Post #: 12
RE: ACMs, how many do you need? - 3/1/2012 6:15:06 PM   
Historiker


Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: SuluSea

I use mostly the Kiso AKLs for ACMs although around 5 to 7 percent will be used as xPB's and a few for Amc's.  The Ansyu-Cs will be doing the bulk of longer distance escort service with some Tosu's for shorter runs. The thing about the starting minefields atleast the way I view it is some you'll have to let whither away on the vine. Focus on your most important ports and choke points mine them and have ACMs there as well. Going from memory I think I counted I need 64 ACMs the first 6 months. You'll never have as many as you want or need but it's part of the beauty of playing this side.

Is there any reason to use Kisos?
I don't have the game open, but afaik, Kisos are the only conversion PBs that have 3 instead of 2 DCs, right?
Also, why would you waste a longer legged ship as immobile ACM when you can use the shorter legged ones?


Hi Historiker, there's more than one way to skin a cat, my thoughts are.

I like matching speed if possible and don't like using the 11 knot Kiso's with faster transports. I have some as xPBs though.
As you stated the dilemma is 3 DC's instead of 2. In a perfect world we have both but we have to make a choice that fits our gaming style.

Since the To'su xPBs have a 42 hex range they can make it anywhere I'll need them to be with one refuel or less. I'll take that with the added speed benefit over the Kiso xPB's

Another thing to note is if you change a Kiso-E to ACM you always have a choice to change it to another conversion for some reason when the To'su's are changed to ACM's you lose the option to convert if a need arises.

Thanks, as always I'm looking to make changes to my effort to improve so enjoying the conversation.

you do?
Well that's one good point, then!

Allright, the range mentioned makes sense. I hope the one additional DC makes some difference, though.
As my game is only on day 3, I still have most options. Thanks for the hints, though!

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to SuluSea)
Post #: 13
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