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Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 6:08:10 AM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Hi, I started playing about a month ago. I've got a lot of stuff figured out, have played strategy games forever (SNES PTO2!) and have always been big into the Pacific War.

So I've got some questions. I've dug around in a lot of topics here and found answers to almost everything, and other stuff I've just figured out as I've played, but here's my current conundrum:

I seem unable to transport aircraft with the Aircraft Transport mission. I am using 2 AKVs at San Francisco, they are set to Aircraft Transport. The air groups I would like to load are not in restricted commands. I have tried "Load troops" and selecting the air group (25 P-40Es in each of the two groups I would like to load). I verify the load and it says I have like 2560 percent extra cargo space, though it's in red and I don't know what that means, but the next day they're sitting in port - empty. How do I load them?

The ships are docked. I have tried "transfer to docked ship", but no ships are listed. I have tried adding a couple of AKs to the TF, which makes the extra cargo space number rise to something like 3500 percent extra but is still in red. Do I need to add yet more AKs to the TF before I can load? The Tender/Auxiliary guide thread leads me to believe that all I need to do is click "Load troops" :(.

Help please!

Post #: 1

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 6:27:01 AM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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My guess is that they did load - and unloaded again during the turn resolution. Did you remember to set the TF to "Do Not Unload"??

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Post #: 2

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 6:49:09 AM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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I don't have to set other TFs (Transport, Amphibious) to "Do Not Unload" when loading their cargo, though. Is Aircraft Transport different?

Also, the TF doesn't have a destination set, it's simply sitting there in port. I will try setting to Do Not Unload, but I'm honestly suspicious that something else is going on.

(in reply to witpqs)

Post #: 3

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 6:57:39 AM

witpqs

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From: Argleton
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Here's the thing - when the TF arrives at it's destination it will unload unless you have it set to not unload. You confirmed that it had no destination. That means it will unload as soon as it finishes unloading. Try it. You will see. Play around with different combinations until you get a feel for how things work. It's the best way to understand it.

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Post #: 4

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 7:07:36 AM

Lokasenna

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I guess I just don't understand why it's working that way for air groups, but in other transport TFs it doesn't make a lick of difference. The troops in those finish loading and stay on the transports, whether I have no destination or I've just made the TF and the destination and home port have defaulted to the current port :P.

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Post #: 5

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 8:19:05 AM

JocMeister

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From: Sweden
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But has those other transports finsished loading? If the do and don�t have a destination set they will unload.

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Post #: 6

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 8:20:09 AM

jmalter

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna
I guess I just don't understand why it's working that way for air groups, but in other transport TFs it doesn't make a lick of difference. The troops in those finish loading and stay on the transports, whether I have no destination or I've just made the TF and the destination and home port have defaulted to the current port :P.

both types of TFs (airtrans & trans) as well as cargo, tanker, & amph TFs behave the same way - if they're not set to 'do not unload' & not given a destination, they'll immediately start to unload in their present hex as soon as they've finished loading. AO & AE replenishment TFs will do the same.

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Post #: 7

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 8:48:03 AM

LoBaron

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From: Vienna, Austria
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Lokasenna, witpqs provided you the most likely explanation. Set to "do not unload" and the problem is gone.

San Francisco is a huge port, so is able to load a smaller TF in one phase easily, and then start unloading again.
Air groups are always loaded first, and always unloaded first. This means, even if the total unload is not completed yet, the air group already is unloaded again
right after the phase starts.

As jmalter said, this behaviour is similar to all TF types that can load stuff. Depending on ship type, port size, and total TF size the cargo transfer rates differ, so thats
the reason you might witness different situations between turns depending on the port (+ present naval support), the TF in question, and the ship types in that TF.

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Post #: 8

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/3/2012 4:56:16 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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Yeah, right now I have 4 Amphibious TFs sitting in San Francisco that say "Loading complete" and have for days, waiting for escorts. They have been set to "Unload Cargo", and still have the default destination/home port of San Francisco. See pic.

I mean, it makes sense that it would work like you say, but I thought it would work the same for all types of Cargo TF. I think I have noticed that Replenishment TFs with AO and AE type ships do unload like my Aircraft Transport TF has been doing... Maybe it's just different with LCUs?

Anyhow, I really appreciate all the help. I am about to start the resolution for the day and hopefully I have two fresh Pursuit Groups on my AKVs tomorrow

Cheers, that did the trick!

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 3/3/2012 5:31:50 PM >

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Post #: 9

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/4/2012 4:08:07 AM

Steve Sv

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I've never had trouble loading aircraft onto xAKs using a regular transport TF. Have you tried that instead of an aircraft transport mission?

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Post #: 10

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/4/2012 5:54:38 AM

Lokasenna

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I had before and they never showed up. I suspect they unloaded during the turn resolution as above... It's just weird that this only seems to go for air groups.

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Post #: 11

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/4/2012 10:06:35 AM

Alfred

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Unloading is not the real problem here.

1. The OP is trying to load two air units simultaneously into the same Air Transport TF which has 2 AKV. Don't do it. Have only one AKV and load only one air unit.

2. The OP gets to the verify stage and because he sees the answer in red, he fails to click on the "accept" button. Loading air units on either an Air Transport or Transport TF is always verified in red. No air unit is anywhere big enough to need more than a single merchantman to carry the unit. Loading ground units are verified in white, with orange used when there is insufficient total lift capacity.

Alfred

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Post #: 12

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/4/2012 12:07:05 PM

Itdepends

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BTW Lokasenna- as someone new to the forum- it's worth mentioning that Alfred knows what he's talking about. He's like the living revised manual.

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Post #: 13

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/5/2012 6:14:36 AM

LoBaron

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From: Vienna, Austria
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
1. The OP is trying to load two air units simultaneously into the same Air Transport TF which has 2 AKV. Don't do it. Have only one AKV and load only one air unit.

Alfred, I never limit my air transport TFs to 1 AKV only on load, and never experienced any issues. In UV/WitP you were better off loading single units and afterwards
combining to a large TF, but with the new verification system in AE I never witnessed any problems, even "add ship to TF" works as a charm.

Is there any known problem with loading several air groups on a multi-AK TF?

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Post #: 14

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/5/2012 6:18:09 AM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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I was clicking 'accept' on the verify load. On the regular TF screen it would say 1% capacity, loading had clearly begun. Anyhow, they were obviously unloading later on in the phase - turned on "Do Not Unload" and they stayed, and are now en route across the ocean... I was mostly curious why it was verifying in red.

What's the deal with multiple AKVs? Why should that matter? Each unit is only on one AKV.

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Post #: 15

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/5/2012 3:19:20 PM

USSAmerica

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I have nothing else to contribute, since you are past your problem, Lokasenna, but I just want to say, "Welcome aboard!"

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Post #: 16

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/5/2012 3:33:34 PM

Cap Mandrake

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Based on his evident massive throbbing cerebrum, Alfred is probably right, but it might be the Longshoreman's Union.

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Post #: 17

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/8/2012 6:45:54 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

Based on his evident massive throbbing cerebrum, Alfred is probably right, but it might be the Longshoreman's Union.

Wouldn't I instead then be feeling the massive throbbing in my feet as a result of the too tight and ill fitting concrete shoes I would be wearing?

Alfred

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Post #: 18

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/8/2012 6:59:45 PM

Alfred

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quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Alfred
1. The OP is trying to load two air units simultaneously into the same Air Transport TF which has 2 AKV. Don't do it. Have only one AKV and load only one air unit.

Alfred, I never limit my air transport TFs to 1 AKV only on load, and never experienced any issues. In UV/WitP you were better off loading single units and afterwards
combining to a large TF, but with the new verification system in AE I never witnessed any problems, even "add ship to TF" works as a charm.

Is there any known problem with loading several air groups on a multi-AK TF?

I'm not aware of any known problem. I do however see potential problems which can be totally avoided by merging the disparate TFs.

Air units are handled differently from LCU. The latter are usually, but not always, too large to be transported in a single ship. The game code therefore is already primed to accommodate fragments being spread out amongst multiple ships. However as you are aware the game does not cope with fragments from different units being onboard the same ship. Hence for LCUs it is a case of one LCU per TF, then merging separate TFs if you want to transport in one go multiple LCUs.

Air units are different. No air unit needs more than one ship for its total transportation. Without having access to the code, I can't vouch that the code has been put in place to cope with an air unit becoming fragmented upon loading onto a TF. In a situation where an Air Transport TF has more AKVs than air units to be loaded, particularly if the "load troops only" option is not selected, is the code smart enough to not attempt to disperse the air unit equally to all the AKVs present?

As you haven't experienced any problems then that is good for you. For me as my logistics doctrine does not incorporate multiple AKVs in an initial TF I don't see the need to risk any potential problems.

Alfred

(in reply to LoBaron)

Post #: 19

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/8/2012 7:58:28 PM

Lokasenna

Posts: 9297
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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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I did come across an issue with VMSB-232 (I think it was 232...) last night. They were on Enterprise, I transferred them to Sydney since the ship was docked and I thought the 1 damaged plane would make it off... It didn't, and now the air unit appears to be permanently split into 17/1. I'm kind of annoyed - I guess I'm doing to disband the 1 pilot unit and see if I can reinforce the 17 man unit with a pilot/plane from the pool.

Thanks for your help!

(in reply to Alfred)

Post #: 20

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/8/2012 9:48:42 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I did come across an issue with VMSB-232 (I think it was 232...) last night. They were on Enterprise, I transferred them to Sydney since the ship was docked and I thought the 1 damaged plane would make it off... It didn't, and now the air unit appears to be permanently split into 17/1. I'm kind of annoyed - I guess I'm doing to disband the 1 pilot unit and see if I can reinforce the 17 man unit with a pilot/plane from the pool.

Thanks for your help!

The transfer mission will only transfer ready planes. However, if you give it a day the damaged/maintenance plane will likely be repaired/readied and fly off on it's own to join it's parent.

As long as the parent is still within transfer range when a damaged fragment becomes readied the tactical AI will attempt to rejoin the fragment to the parent.

Or if it fails to do so automatically, you can manually transfer the readied fragment to the parent's location and either manually disband the fragment into the parent or wait for the next turn resolution when the tactical AI will join them automatically at the beginning of the night phase.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 3/8/2012 9:50:13 PM >

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Hans

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Post #: 21

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/8/2012 10:06:17 PM

Lokasenna

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From: Iowan in MD/DC
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I waited 2 days

. I have noticed that damaged/maintenance planes will rejoin the parent unit when transferring between land bases, but it didn't do this this time. The plane became ready on the Enterprise (again, still in dock at Sydney) and didn't move to Sydney on its own. I want to say that I waited another day and it didn't go automatically, but I can't be sure as I had to repeat 2 days of action last night due to a power surge

.

I haven't done the next day's resolution yet, so hopefully it automatically combines during the night phase. I just know that when I clicked "Disband" it didn't give me the usual option to put the plane/pilot in a unit with the same plane type - merely asked me if I wanted to send the pilot/plane to the pool, and I clicked no as I wasn't sure what to do yet.

Thanks for the suggestion, I was thinking I was screwed "out" of a pilot...at least for the immediate future.

(in reply to HansBolter)

Post #: 22

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/9/2012 11:50:59 AM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

I waited 2 days�. I have noticed that damaged/maintenance planes will rejoin the parent unit when transferring between land bases, but it didn't do this this time. The plane became ready on the Enterprise (again, still in dock at Sydney) and didn't move to Sydney on its own. I want to say that I waited another day and it didn't go automatically, but I can't be sure as I had to repeat 2 days of action last night due to a power surge�.

I haven't done the next day's resolution yet, so hopefully it automatically combines during the night phase. I just know that when I clicked "Disband" it didn't give me the usual option to put the plane/pilot in a unit with the same plane type - merely asked me if I wanted to send the pilot/plane to the pool, and I clicked no as I wasn't sure what to do yet.

Thanks for the suggestion, I was thinking I was screwed "out" of a pilot...at least for the immediate future.

If you clicked disband while they were not stationed at the same base then the only option you would be given would be to send planes and pilots to pools. However, when you disband a fragment in the same base as it's parent it will automatically disband into the parent with no options presented.

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Post #: 23

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/9/2012 7:01:22 PM

Lokasenna

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That's the thing, they -were- at the same base (Sydney). I was very conscious about keeping them in the same hex while all this was happening, because it was odd. I got the "send pilots/planes to pools?" disband message despite that. I probably mucked it up by mistakenly transferring off the CV when 1 plane was still damaged.

They ended up recombining during the night phase the next day. So all is good and right with the world.

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Post #: 24

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/10/2012 2:28:46 AM

Lokasenna

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Another question I can't find in the manual.

I have a base force and was trying to unload it at Luganville. Everything is unloaded...except for a radar sub-unit. It says it can't be unloaded there - I assume it's a port size issue? How big of a port do I need?

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Post #: 25

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/10/2012 2:43:43 AM

Alfred

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Use an amphibious TF, and if necessary increase the naval support at Luganville.

Alfred

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Post #: 26

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/10/2012 3:17:05 AM

oldman45

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You will have to build the port up to get that off or find some naval support and off load it there so it can get the radar off. There are no barges around that the ships crane can lower the radar on.

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Post #: 27

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/10/2012 11:40:25 AM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Another question I can't find in the manual.

I have a base force and was trying to unload it at Luganville. Everything is unloaded...except for a radar sub-unit. It says it can't be unloaded there - I assume it's a port size issue? How big of a port do I need?

Alberts answer is good but a bit vague. Amphib TFs are best for unloading anything, even supply, at a size 1 or smaller port. Even large guns like 155s will unload over the beaches from an amphib TF, although I believe the radar will not. The radar should unload once the port reaches level 2, IIRC. The addition of naval support increases the unloading capacity of any size port, the more nav support the better. The US has several very small dedicated nav support units (can't recall the exact names right now but they are identified by letter codes...A, B, C, D, E). These are invaluable units for unloading at level 0 or 1 ports to get your operations going there. Try to plan the inclusion of these for any operations aimed at dot bases or level 0 or 1 ports.

Nav support also increases the rearming capability of ports. There is a table in the manual (20.1.2.2)that shows the port size and port size + min nav support necessary to rearm various size armaments. You need a min size 4 port for 5" guns, min size 5 port to rearm 6" guns and a min size 6 port to rearm 8" guns. Nav support lowers the port size requirement for these.

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 3/10/2012 11:47:29 AM >

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Post #: 28

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/10/2012 1:29:06 PM

Blackhorse

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HB is exactly correct. Your "little friends" are the USN Port Svc Det -- US Navy Port Service Detachments, which are easy to amphibiously unload onto dot bases, and have enough naval support to ease the unloading of larger devices. The PSDs also include a little aviation support.

Don't leave home without them!

quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

quote:

ORIGINAL: Lokasenna

Another question I can't find in the manual.

I have a base force and was trying to unload it at Luganville. Everything is unloaded...except for a radar sub-unit. It says it can't be unloaded there - I assume it's a port size issue? How big of a port do I need?

Alberts answer is good but a bit vague. Amphib TFs are best for unloading anything, even supply, at a size 1 or smaller port. Even large guns like 155s will unload over the beaches from an amphib TF, although I believe the radar will not. The radar should unload once the port reaches level 2, IIRC. The addition of naval support increases the unloading capacity of any size port, the more nav support the better. The US has several very small dedicated nav support units (can't recall the exact names right now but they are identified by letter codes...A, B, C, D, E). These are invaluable units for unloading at level 0 or 1 ports to get your operations going there. Try to plan the inclusion of these for any operations aimed at dot bases or level 0 or 1 ports.

Nav support also increases the rearming capability of ports. There is a table in the manual (20.1.2.2)that shows the port size and port size + min nav support necessary to rearm various size armaments. You need a min size 4 port for 5" guns, min size 5 port to rearm 6" guns and a min size 6 port to rearm 8" guns. Nav support lowers the port size requirement for these.

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Post #: 29

RE: Longtime lurker with Noob Questions - 3/10/2012 1:49:41 PM

ny59giants

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quote:

HB is exactly correct. Your "little friends" are the USN Port Svc Det -- US Navy Port Service Detachments, which are easy to amphibiously unload onto dot bases, and have enough naval support to ease the unloading of larger devices. The PSDs also include a little aviation support.

Don't leave home without them!

+1000

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