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RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan)

 
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RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/20/2012 3:00:52 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Well I have definitely decided not to produce the George. The rest I need to think about more. I just don't like the idea of Japan trying to compete with the US or Brits on a technological level in the air. This was a complete impossibility in real life and just because the game allows you to do it doesn't mean that you have to.

This is my current musing ...

IJA:-

Tony NO
Frank MAYBE
Ki-83 YES
Ki-94 NO
Ki-93 NO
Ki-201 NO
Me163 thingy NO

IJN:-

George NO
Jack MAYBE
Sam MAYBE. Perhaps just for CV units or something.
Shinden should be NO, but they are cool :-) Perhaps just a few dedicated to Festung defence.
Me163 thingy NO

One thing to be aware of with all this is that I have precisely no expectation of ever being able to stop 4E bombers from doing their stuff. It seems to me a lot of players waste an awful lot of time and effort trying to solve this when it's essentially an insoluble problem.

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 3/20/2012 3:16:59 PM >

(in reply to Saros)
Post #: 151
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/20/2012 3:27:22 PM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		I agree with not producing the rockets and jets. You can't build them in sufficient numbers or quickly enough to make much of a difference. I have cancelled them in my own game as I see them as a waste of resources.

However, I think you have to produce the Frank. There will be missions that you need extra firepower for...intercepting 4E bombers, etc.. Even beehives and ant colonies have workers with different skill sets. Some Frank units with elite pilots would prove very useful to the hive at some point.



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(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 152
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/20/2012 5:28:09 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Yes I think we must do the Frank. I won't accelerate it though.

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 153
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 2:27:25 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		I've played today's turn now. Not much happening except Oscars and Nicks beating up the British and Chinese air forces quite successfully via Sweep. The Brit LCU stack definitely looks to be heading towards Magwe.

Now to the revised air plans ...

Fighters

IJA:-

Oscar YES
Tojo YES
Tony NO
Frank YES
Nick YES
Ki-83 YES
Ki-94 NO
Ki-93 NO
Ki-201 NO
Me163 thingy NO

IJN:-

Zero YES
George NO
Jack NO
Sam YES
Shinden YES
Me163 thingy NO

The IJN will attempt to standardise on the Sam, and to this end I have allocated lots of R&D to it. A small number of Shindens will also be produced, but these will only be used in the Home Islands to protect important targets. In the meantime, whatever is the current model of the Zero will take the burden.

The IJA will in simple terms use Oscars for bombing, Tojos for air defence and Franks for offensive Sweeps. Though there will inevitably be some overlap. The Ki-83 will also be produced in smaller numbers, but what exactly I will use it for is as yet undecided. Possibly as per the Shinden, but then it does have a good range ...

Night Fighters

For the IJA I will just produce whatever is available in moderate numbers until such time as the Ki-102c Randy becomes available. This plane is on paper far and away the best night fighter in the arsenal, but it and its radar don't arrive until 1945. For the IJN the Denko is superficially attractive but it has a service rating of 4 and doesn't arrive by default until 1946. So I won't bother with it. Instead I will produce a reasonable number of the Zero night fighter variant, which might prove useful deployed on the carriers, if I have any.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 154
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 3:54:09 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		Just wondering, but why the Sam over the George? Is it because of the CV deployment issue?

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Post #: 155
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 8:23:17 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		No logical reason. I just don't like the George.

I don't play this game to optimise every single little thing.

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 3/21/2012 8:27:10 PM >

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 156
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 9:36:32 PM   
btbw

 

Posts: 379
Joined: 11/1/2011
Status: offline 		Rethink.

< Message edited by btbw -- 3/22/2012 7:02:28 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 157
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 9:40:45 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

No logical reason. I just don't like the George.

I don't play this game to optimise every single little thing.


So you'll go with inferior aircraft for two years between the time the George/Jack are available and when the Sam shows up? Any other reasons? Just curious. Is this to be more 'historically accurate,' or do you just feel as you stated above that Japan shouldn't be able to compete with the Allies?

If that's true why not play PDU off?

< Message edited by obvert -- 3/21/2012 9:42:29 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 158
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 10:35:34 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		I can't abide PDU Off. It would be OK if the game engine simulated a lot more real industrial and logistical constrictions to go with it but it doesn't.

It's simple. The George is ugly and nose-heavy therefore I don't want it.

Historically accurate is not that important to me, however I do feel a need to introduce some impediments to my god-like control. Otherwise you just get stuck into relentless game engine optimisation, which to me would be boring not to mention too stressful.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 159
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 10:37:36 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: btbw

And IJN navy AG can be expanded from default numbers to cap of CV.


Nothing on this earth would get me to do that. It's a game exploit of the first magnitude.

(in reply to btbw)
Post #: 160
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 10:49:46 PM   
SqzMyLemon


Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

No logical reason. I just don't like the George.

I don't play this game to optimise every single little thing.


I laughed at this. I don't like the George either, but from a model building perspective. Didn't really know what they looked like and saw a kit of one for a good price in my local hobby store. I will buy most anything, but drew the line with the George. For no other reason than it's just ugly.

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Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 161
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 10:54:59 PM   
btbw

 

Posts: 379
Joined: 11/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

quote:

ORIGINAL: btbw

And IJN navy AG can be expanded from default numbers to cap of CV.


Nothing on this earth would get me to do that. It's a game exploit of the first magnitude.

Same as RD)

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 162
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 10:55:57 PM   
btbw

 

Posts: 379
Joined: 11/1/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I can't abide PDU Off. It would be OK if the game engine simulated a lot more real industrial and logistical constrictions to go with it but it doesn't.

It's simple. The George is ugly and nose-heavy therefore I don't want it.

Historically accurate is not that important to me, however I do feel a need to introduce some impediments to my god-like control. Otherwise you just get stuck into relentless game engine optimisation, which to me would be boring not to mention too stressful.


Simple - i just historical funboy and like to lose. Nothing can be added to this.

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 163
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 11:41:44 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Green button ...

Some people just have no idea.

(in reply to btbw)
Post #: 164
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 11:51:26 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

I can't abide PDU Off. It would be OK if the game engine simulated a lot more real industrial and logistical constrictions to go with it but it doesn't.

It's simple. The George is ugly and nose-heavy therefore I don't want it.

Historically accurate is not that important to me, however I do feel a need to introduce some impediments to my god-like control. Otherwise you just get stuck into relentless game engine optimisation, which to me would be boring not to mention too stressful.



Ha! I love your brash attitude about why you play the game and what you want to do with it. Cheers!

It is fun to play, and if doing things a particular way makes it more fun for you then that's the way it should be in your game. Being an art teacher and photographer I can understand the aesthetic part. One of the reasons I am going to build the Tony. I just like the look of it!

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 165
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/21/2012 11:56:10 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Thanks :-)

I am quite confident that my fighter choices will do what I want from them. Most people let the air war get stuck into static duel mode. Strength against Strength. That is not my plan.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 166
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/22/2012 2:24:33 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		I applaud your attempt to develop new tactics.

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Post #: 167
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/22/2012 2:57:48 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Thank you :-)

It's not just tactics though. The problem is, the game's over-stated Japanese industrial and logistics capabilities lure you into thinking that you can compete with the West at its own game (technology + logistics), but you can't, unless you have an incompetent opponent and/or use game engine exploits. Therefore, I prefer to play as the "poor man" right from the start. That is to say "poor" but with far more options than in reality.

It's not strictly historical, but it feels better to me than the usual unrealistic "Japan invades half the planet" followed by the game ending in 1943 type of scenario.

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 168
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/22/2012 12:54:09 PM   
Miller


Posts: 2226
Joined: 9/14/2004
From: Ashington, England.
Status: offline 		Can I ask why you have chosen the Jack over the George? Almost identical stats but the George has a 2-3 hex range advantage which can be vital.

Edit: Oops sorry, just noticed you are not going to build either

< Message edited by Miller -- 3/22/2012 12:56:46 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 169
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/23/2012 2:22:11 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		The Jack is ugly too.

Now, for some merchant shipping news ...

I have decided to stop using escorted convoys for all Resource transportation and Oil/Fuel transportation in safe areas.

Three reasons:-

1) It's a pain in the ass organising it all.
2) I have too many Resources, too many xAKs/xAKLs and not enough ASW escorts.
3) It really feels wrong to me that the Allied subs should be as useless as they are.

Oil/Fuel/Troops/Supply to/from contested areas will continue to travel in convoy and under escort.

Along with this, I will not henceforth be upgrading any DDs or APDs into Es.

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 3/23/2012 2:26:10 AM >

(in reply to Miller)
Post #: 170
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/23/2012 5:02:34 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Captain Cruft

Green button ...

Some people just have no idea.



Yep


Best thing is to read converstations where they are there, but they aren't.

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 171
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/23/2012 6:50:50 PM   
Saros

 

Posts: 454
Joined: 12/18/2010
Status: offline 		Cruft I am both horrified and intrigued by your approach to this game. Keep up the good work.
Although maybe reconsider building one of the Jack/George? They are really essential and I doubt your opponent will base his 4EB's within Oscar/Nick strike range of your bases more than once (That first time is probably going to hurt though.)

If you don't try produce a counter to the 4EB raids how are you going to defend anything at all? 80 4E can flatten an airbase of any size per day and once he has 3-4 squads like this operating (late '42 this is easily possible) you will simply be unable to mount any sort of defense on the outer perimeter. The same will unfortunately be true once he hits the hardened inner core. Overfortified/Garrisoned bases will be bombed then bypassed thanks to the massive ability of US engineers (seabees etc) to build up even the crappiest of dot bases.

I worry that your opponent will simply flow around your hardpoints and occupy the key shipping lanes before assaulting the hive proper.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 172
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/23/2012 9:25:25 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		My opponent is very risk-averse. He has quite a lot of 4Es in Burma but has seemed reluctant to put them up against my fighters, even though they don't shoot many of them down.

That said, of course I will have problems with this approach, but solving problems is what I like doing. There is always more than one way to skin a cat.


< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 3/24/2012 2:53:35 AM >

(in reply to Saros)
Post #: 173
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/24/2012 1:47:46 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Nov 26 1942

4E bombers vs. Zeros ...

How timely. This was the day that the long-expected 4E attack from Rabaul finally arrived at Truk. I will let the results speak for themselves





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Truk , at 112,108

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 40 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 12 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 72

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 49
B-24D Liberator x 14

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M3 Zero: 2 destroyed
G3M2 Nell: 1 destroyed on ground
F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 8 destroyed, 28 damaged
B-24D Liberator: 3 destroyed, 9 damaged

Airbase hits 3
Runway hits 4

Aircraft Attacking:
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
7 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
4 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
204 Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (4 airborne, 10 on standby, 31 scrambling)
4 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters between 6000 and 20000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 32 minutes
284 Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (2 airborne, 6 on standby, 19 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters between 9000 and 15000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 34 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Truk , at 112,108

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid detected at 25 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 25

Allied aircraft
B-24D Liberator x 14

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-24D Liberator: 6 damaged

Runway hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-24D Liberator bombing from 10000 feet
Airfield Attack: 10 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
204 Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
13 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 59 minutes
284 Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
11 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 48 minutes

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Truk , at 112,108

Weather in hex: Severe storms

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M3 Zero x 17

Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 8

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed by flak

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 4 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
204 Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (1 airborne, 0 on standby, 4 scrambling)
1 plane(s) intercepting now.
4 plane(s) not yet engaged, 0 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 20000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 33 minutes
284 Ku S-1 with A6M3 Zero (3 airborne, 0 on standby, 5 scrambling)
3 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 15000 , scrambling fighters to 10000.
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 27 minutes

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 3/24/2012 9:08:54 PM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 174
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/24/2012 1:53:54 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		Nice use of layered CAP.

How much flak you got there?

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Post #: 175
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/24/2012 1:57:23 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		8 x 10cm and 24 x 7.5cm guns plus the DP guns in the Truk Fortress. It was the Zeros that did the damage though.

What is even better is that I didn't lose a single pilot, and one has even graduated to TRACOM after getting 3 kills.

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 176
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/24/2012 2:08:43 AM   
FDRLincoln


Posts: 744
Joined: 11/22/2004
From: Lawrence, KS
Status: offline 		I have sometimes wondered if flak has some sort of "breakup bomber formation" effect that doesn't show up overtly in the combat animations but enables defending fighters to perform more effectively.

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Fear God and Dread Nought

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 177
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/24/2012 2:43:53 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Mebbe. There are lots of undocumented things in this game. I have far larger stacks of AA in Downfall though, and yet the 4E bombers there have been pretty much untouchable.

I think the key factor here may be that high pilot exp and skill allowed the fighters to attack along the most advantageous approach vector. The kills were mostly achieved by attacking from the "Upper Front" ...

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 3/24/2012 2:52:32 AM >

(in reply to FDRLincoln)
Post #: 178
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/24/2012 3:03:38 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Why I like Service Rating 1 ...

I lost 11 Zeros at Truk today. Tomorrow I will be able to field only 9 less Zeros than today, in the unlikely event that he decides to commit his bruised 4E stack again. Fatigue and morale remain good.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 3/24/2012 3:08:05 AM >

(in reply to Captain Cruft)
Post #: 179
RE: The Hive - Cruft Scen 2 PBEM (Japan) - 3/24/2012 3:30:14 AM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Meanwhile, over in Burma ...

The 33rd Division is not in good shape. Bombing has recently intensified, and the negative effects seemed to accelerate once the active devices went below 50% of TOE.

The escape plan is that once Meiktila is reached next turn, we shall reclaim the base via a DA (assuming any AV remains) and then entrain for Rangoon. Doubtless many more devices will be disabled in the process but if we can reach the Burmese capital without completely evaporating then I hope that some Rest/Training should restore the unit to some semblance of usefulness.



Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Captain Cruft -- 3/24/2012 3:32:34 AM >

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