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Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 3:24:37 PM   
Sh*tOnAShingle

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 12/2/2011
Status: offline 		The interface of this game is perhaps the worst I have played.....EVER. Now, when you add this to a manual that does a horrible job of teaching it and what we have is a possibly great game that I (and I suspect many many others) cannot/will not play.

I dont mind a detailed, complicated interface IF there is a manual that native English speakers can understand and learn from. I play ASL, a board game that might be the most detailed, complicated tactical wargame ever created and I love learning the details but after 15 minutes with the interface of this game I ran out of gas. I tried again this morning and ran out of gas again after another 10 minutes.

DO NOT BUY this game until a proper manual is produced unless you already know the IF or you just like to be frustrated.

Waste of $30.00

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RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 4:09:47 PM   
KEYSTONE07950

 

Posts: 177
Joined: 12/17/2006
Status: offline 		I purchased the Gamers Gate edition, and while I found the UI non - intuitive and the translated manual cumbersome, with enough patience you can learn to play and enjoy the sim.

I would have purchased the Matrix edition if they had polished up the manual.

My experience with the sim is to stick with it; you have a great game in there somewhere.


(in reply to Sh*tOnAShingle)
Post #: 2
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 4:35:29 PM   
GBS

 

Posts: 903
Joined: 7/3/2002
From: Southeastern USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Sh*tOnAShingle



DO NOT BUY this game until a proper manual is produced unless you already know the IF or you just like to be frustrated.

Waste of $30.00


That's not very nice. You can download a 80 something page Tactical manual from the developers site which helps a lot. Also forums on Simhq and Graviteam feature the devs constantly who fight through a language barrier to try as hard as they can to explain a lot of things. I'm not sophisticated at all and I play the game exclusively over CM now and after a while I found it to be quite intuitive. Anyway I want these developers to be successful so they can continue to bring new games to market. They appear to be highly talented to me.

(in reply to Sh*tOnAShingle)
Post #: 3
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 4:57:23 PM   
Sh*tOnAShingle

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 12/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GBS


quote:

ORIGINAL: Sh*tOnAShingle



DO NOT BUY this game until a proper manual is produced unless you already know the IF or you just like to be frustrated.

Waste of $30.00


That's not very nice. You can download a 80 something page Tactical manual from the developers site which helps a lot. Also forums on Simhq and Graviteam feature the devs constantly who fight through a language barrier to try as hard as they can to explain a lot of things. I'm not sophisticated at all and I play the game exclusively over CM now and after a while I found it to be quite intuitive. Anyway I want these developers to be successful so they can continue to bring new games to market. They appear to be highly talented to me.


GBS:

I made no inference at all about the talent of Graviteam. By many accounts they are a good group and the product might be fantastic...IF you know how to use it. My issue is with putting a product up for sale in any country without a good guide on how to use the product wrtitten so native speakers in that country can understand it. Clearly, this is not the case with this game.

Who should have handled this I cannot tell you. Perhaps Graviteam's partners here in America could have made sure this happened. I suppose it depends on the arrangements made between the parties.

Success is not ONLY only about programming. It is also about the proper documentation to use it.



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Post #: 4
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 6:05:36 PM   
Redmarkus5


Posts: 4456
Joined: 12/1/2007
From: 0.00
Status: offline 		The interface isn't the most intuitive, but do give this game a try. Start by following one tank around and mastering the view controls, then move on to issuing orders.

If you setup a mission in the editor where you have a tank and the enemy is on the far side of the map with only a rifle platoon, you'll have time to practice without heavy combat getting in the way.

The key controls to master are the zoom ones (quite tricky) and the follow-unit one. Once you've got that sorted, the others are easier to execute.

It's a steal for $30 and by far the best game of this type I have played - ever.

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Post #: 5
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 6:28:51 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline 		Sadly I agree it was a waste of $30, the manual is no hope - and the "training interface" doesn't work half the time, you have to alt+end to get past the broken areas and figure it out on your own.

The campaign editor might be alright if I can figure out how to add more then just 1 unit to each side, so far nothing on the graviteam's forums or the manual is any help.

I hope maybe perhaps Graviteam can fix some of the issues, then the game has promising hope, I would surely wait on buying it until more patches come out.


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Post #: 6
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 9:45:40 PM   
Mazzah

 

Posts: 19
Joined: 3/29/2011
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		Holy crap i cant turn tutorial off!

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Post #: 7
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 10:42:36 PM   
apd1004


Posts: 158
Joined: 8/1/2006
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mazzah

Holy crap i cant turn tutorial off!


You enabled it when you created your profile and selected "yes" for training mode. Just create a new profile and select "no" when it prompts you for training mode.

(in reply to Mazzah)
Post #: 8
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/26/2012 11:36:46 PM   
mbar


Posts: 492
Joined: 3/17/2010
Status: offline 		Click options then click "game and realism settings" Tutorial can be turned off/on there.

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Post #: 9
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 1:45:06 AM   
leftydad

 

Posts: 206
Joined: 8/24/2004
Status: offline 		I can't ge the tutorial to play. I press ALT/PAGEDOWN and nothing happens.

If I got to QUICK BATTLE, I' stuck there and can't escape out.

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RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 1:49:32 AM   
leftydad

 

Posts: 206
Joined: 8/24/2004
Status: offline 		I own practically every Maxtrix game ever made, that this one is a mess!

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Post #: 11
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 4:16:20 AM   
leftydad

 

Posts: 206
Joined: 8/24/2004
Status: offline 		I can't even use English very well, I'm so frustrated.


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Post #: 12
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 5:48:45 AM   
zzzuke

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 11/28/2007
Status: offline 		WOW - wish I would have read this thread before purchasing this game. The interface and manual are ridiculous, disappointing that Matrix would allow this to be sold on their site.

Matrix - please advise what your plan to correct this problem is or allow disatisfied owners the opportunity to return defective product


(in reply to leftydad)
Post #: 13
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 7:21:34 AM   
7thcav

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 6/4/2011
From: Washington State USA
Status: offline 		Don't like the interface ? Then don't use it !! select a unit and hit the spacebar,list of commands pops up in english...select what ya want that unit to do then click on the map where ya want the lads to go and your done.Use key board short cuts for the other stuff like formations.You can minimize the various interface panels bye clicking on the little box with the arrow in it thats next to them and they disappear just like magic. Just keep the ones up that you want, I tend to leave them open for controls that the quick command interface doesn't have.Where pray tell did I find that little useful tidbit? Its in the controls PDF in the same folder as the tactics_manual.Go to the games root directory ,open the docs folder then the support folder and its in there. There is a key board short cut for everything this game does....134 of them in all. Ladies it ain't nearly as complicated as you would like folks to believe. Thats not to say there isn't a learning curve because there is but a little patients will go a long way.

Have a nice day......

< Message edited by 7thcav -- 3/27/2012 8:42:14 AM >

(in reply to zzzuke)
Post #: 14
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 11:39:16 AM   
apd1004


Posts: 158
Joined: 8/1/2006
Status: offline 		I'll second what 7thcav says. The learning curve is steep only because the documentation is translated to English from Russian and is not an easy read nor is it even a good translation IMO. The interface is not that difficult if you take the time to learn it. There is a tactics guide written for Steel Armor Blaze of War (link is in another thread on this forum) but it also does a good job of representing APOS because they use the same engine. There are a lot of unwritten/under-written things with the game that you pretty much have to figure out on your own, which is a turn off for those people that like to see everything laid out perfectly for them in an outline-style manual. Read some of the other threads in this forum as well, you can pick up a lot of pointers. If you have the patience to get beyond the quirks, APOS is actually a solid product and very enjoyable. If you absolutely have to have a perfect manual like in WitP or WitE, then this game is definitely not for you and I wouldn't try it.

Refund? Try the demo before you buy. If I was able to get a refund for all the crappy games I've purchased since I bought my first computer in 1986, I would be a wealthy man. APOS is one of the games I would keep.

(in reply to 7thcav)
Post #: 15
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 12:03:04 PM   
PS Pita

 

Posts: 41
Joined: 3/3/2012
Status: offline 		My God, are you girls really struggling that much over this game? You think that matrix never should have released it? Look at the oh so perfect "War in the East and "War in the pacific" nobody whines about what a mess this games is to learn. The manual rephrases and iterates everything you already know and tells you nothing useful about what you'll actual use to play or win the game, it is horrible. Learning to play these two games is an esoteric secret kept be you and your kind of special, elite wargamers. (Why can't someone do a series of video tutorials on Youtube like they did with command ops!)It's probably really not too difficult it just that you snooty "grogs" want to keep it that way.

I don't understand how you couldn't understand the interface. I learned it in a few nights when the first Achtung Panzer came out and then brushed up on it with the manual and the tutorial again when
APOS came out. It just gives you alot of detail which is a good think.

(in reply to 7thcav)
Post #: 16
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 1:19:03 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		Calling them "girls" and "ladies" doesn't alter the fact that the interface sucks. Or are personal attacks the only way to defend the interface?

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Post #: 17
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 1:26:29 PM   
Missouri_Rebel


Posts: 3065
Joined: 6/19/2006
From: Southern Missouri
Status: offline 		vonRocko, would you consider the interface to be so bad as to warrant skipping this title? I'm on the fence on this game.

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Post #: 18
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 1:29:16 PM   
KEYSTONE07950

 

Posts: 177
Joined: 12/17/2006
Status: offline 		Hey guys! It took me several evenings trying things out, but I eventually figured out the UI. I'm no threat to win the Nobel Prize! - if I can figure it out, anyone can with a little patience.
The game play is great - don't pass this one by.

< Message edited by KEYSTONE07950 -- 3/27/2012 1:30:31 PM >

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Post #: 19
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 1:56:10 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Missouri_Rebel

vonRocko, would you consider the interface to be so bad as to warrant skipping this title? I'm on the fence on this game.


I only have the first one, but looking at the screenshots, I don't see any difference.( I never did really learn the game because of the manual) If it had a decent manual, then the interface can be overlooked. In the thread titled "demo", Txema provided a link to the english manual and I still don't get it.
I don't shy away from complicated games, but it must have a proper rulebook for the inevitable questions. I have a feeling the game isn't really that complicated, if it had proper documentation. Personally, I don't want to go through the time and aggravation of trial and error just to learn it.
If Matrix would rewrite the manual, I would buy it today, but until I can read and understand the manual, I will pass, although I'm very tempted to buy.

(in reply to Missouri_Rebel)
Post #: 20
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 3:55:48 PM   
AlesMrak

 

Posts: 21
Joined: 1/2/2010
Status: offline 		Hi,

don't pass on this game, it has interface which can be a little troubling but not much (what is missing is PR), WITP and WITE have more complicated UI for my taste. If you like tactical games like CM and CC (infantry hides in houses also, it has all features of CC and more) don't miss this game, its a gem.

br.
Dr.Jones

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 21
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 4:37:27 PM   
7thcav

 

Posts: 31
Joined: 6/4/2011
From: Washington State USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Calling them "girls" and "ladies" doesn't alter the fact that the interface sucks. Or are personal attacks the only way to defend the interface?

Folks are being more then a little presumptuous,assuming because they don't like or are able to deal with it others others won't and shouldn't buy the game.Hows that better ? The UI complaints seem to me to be genre related, every title that I can think of APOS,CMBN,PCO and TOW to name a few have all been complained about for having poor user interfaces on various forums. APOS doesn't have the best user interface going and thats a fact,it takes a little time to get used to but it works fine. I am not a long time player of the series...I bought the game the day before yesterday and I am no rocket scientist when it comes to these things but was able to sort the UI out in a little less then a half hour despite old age .

have a nice day

< Message edited by 7thcav -- 3/27/2012 4:49:10 PM >

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 22
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/27/2012 4:40:17 PM   
wodin


Posts: 10762
Joined: 4/20/2003
From: England
Status: offline 		I've told you a million times not to exaggerate.

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Post #: 23
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/30/2012 10:24:12 AM   
Shadrach


Posts: 727
Joined: 10/16/2001
From: Oslo, Norway
Status: offline 		The UI is a *lot* better than in AP:Kharkov43, believe me

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Post #: 24
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/30/2012 1:17:40 PM   
Joram

 

Posts: 3198
Joined: 7/15/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: 7thcav

quote:

ORIGINAL: vonRocko

Calling them "girls" and "ladies" doesn't alter the fact that the interface sucks. Or are personal attacks the only way to defend the interface?

Folks are being more then a little presumptuous,assuming because they don't like or are able to deal with it others others won't and shouldn't buy the game.Hows that better ? The UI complaints seem to me to be genre related, every title that I can think of APOS,CMBN,PCO and TOW to name a few have all been complained about for having poor user interfaces on various forums. APOS doesn't have the best user interface going and thats a fact,it takes a little time to get used to but it works fine. I am not a long time player of the series...I bought the game the day before yesterday and I am no rocket scientist when it comes to these things but was able to sort the UI out in a little less then a half hour despite old age .

have a nice day


It's completely different. While melodramatic he is simply expressing his displeasure of the game due to the complicated interface. He's making no implication on people's gender, intelligence or whatever. You may not see it as fair to say don't buy it but he's not insulting anyone.

You on the other hand are being completely patronizing by saying you have to be a 'lady' to not be able to understand the game and you can figure it out in 30 minutes despite not being a rocket scientist. The proper response to his complaint is as how Dr. Jones states it:

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dr.Jones

Hi,

don't pass on this game, it has interface which can be a little troubling but not much (what is missing is PR), WITP and WITE have more complicated UI for my taste. If you like tactical games like CM and CC (infantry hides in houses also, it has all features of CC and more) don't miss this game, its a gem.

br.
Dr.Jones


or Keystone

quote:

ORIGINAL: KEYSTONE07950

I purchased the Gamers Gate edition, and while I found the UI non - intuitive and the translated manual cumbersome, with enough patience you can learn to play and enjoy the sim.

I would have purchased the Matrix edition if they had polished up the manual.

My experience with the sim is to stick with it; you have a great game in there somewhere.


Hope it's clear now how to be helpful if it's not too late to teach an old dog a new trick.

(in reply to 7thcav)
Post #: 25
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/30/2012 5:52:02 PM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

A few comments on the feedback here.

Achtung Panzer Operation Star is a game that we added to our catalog, which Graviteam had already released. We did not work with them on the development of this release, just on the production of the updated Matrix version, so there was really no scope for additional development on this release. Hopefully we'll be able to work more closely with them in the future.

For this release, we played the game ourselves and found that while it had a steep learning curve, it was a gem of a game. We felt that for our niche, the interface and learning curve would not be insurmountable and we felt it the quality of the game was high enough that we should bring it to our customers. I'm sorry the interface and documentation make the game more challenging to learn. I can tell you that while it does take some work to get the hang of it, it is worth the effort and I have also seen far worse interfaces in the past.

Finally, please keep things civil and constructive. We are sending your feedback on to Gravitem as well.

Regards,

- Erik



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Post #: 26
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 3/30/2012 7:20:42 PM   
Misconduct


Posts: 1864
Joined: 2/18/2009
From: Cape Canaveral, Florida
Status: offline 		I think the game has potential to excel if Matrix Games can help give feedback to graviteam, honestly I think the interface is fine - rather the game was rushed without being completed.



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Post #: 27
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 4/1/2012 5:35:40 PM   
Tejszd

 

Posts: 3437
Joined: 11/17/2007
Status: offline 		UI does take some getting use to as there is a learning curve but I prefer that over taking away options.

The space bar to bring up actions and tooltips really help (as it sounds like the earlier release did not have them).

Having said that the game would be easier to pick up if it followed Windows standards more, for example;

Excel/Word/Close Combat/Panzer Command:
- Left button select unit
- right button brings up action menu
- left button selects action
- left button selects target for action

Achtung Panzer:
- left button select unit
- left button select icon for action or press space bar for action list and left click selects command
- right button selects target for action


< Message edited by Tejszd -- 4/1/2012 11:02:59 PM >

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Post #: 28
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 4/1/2012 5:59:32 PM   
vonRocko

 

Posts: 1447
Joined: 11/4/2008
Status: offline 		Edited because I don't care anymore.

< Message edited by vonRocko -- 4/1/2012 6:01:45 PM >

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Post #: 29
RE: Worst interface ever made? - 4/1/2012 6:44:38 PM   
KEYSTONE07950

 

Posts: 177
Joined: 12/17/2006
Status: offline 		Hopefully Matrix will have editorial imput for Graviteam's next release. According to the Graviteam forum, they are working on a stand alone game of
the Khalkhin Gol battle in 1939. As long as Graviteam continues to improve the engine and Matrix writes the manual I will purchase the game.

(in reply to vonRocko)
Post #: 30
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