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Supply line length - 4/6/2012 7:31:50 AM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline 		Is there a point where the length of the line is too great to get any supplies through? Is there a way of working this out?

Roger

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RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 7:55:41 AM   
wdolson

 

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Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline 		There is a max length, but it's very complicated. The poorer the terrain/roads, the shorter the supply line.

The supply movement range also varies by day. It's best on Thursdays. A few other days of the week it's sort of middling and on the rest of the days it's only going to move between places with railroads or good roads and over shorter distances.

Explaining how it works in more detail would be as long and complex as a master's thesis.

Bill

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RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 8:06:14 AM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline 		Sounds like a job for...... you know who, starts with an A........ AKA Supermanual.

Roger



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RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 8:25:10 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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From: Cottesmore, Rutland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

Sounds like a job for...... you know who, starts with an A........ AKA Supermanual.

Roger




Roger

If you are playing the latest patch select a base and hit the 5 key. Hex supply values from that base outwards will be displayed as a percentage. These figures are worked out from the supply column found in the table in section 8.3.1 and the rules for Ground Unit supply in 15.3.

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Post #: 4
RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 8:37:15 AM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline 		Ah that is good to know. When i try it I don't get percentages i just get little yellow diamonds showing where - I assume- my supply will flow. Odd. That's the 1.0.6.1108r9 patch.

A nice feature, though i'm more interested in the theoretical supply problems my enemy might or might not be having.


Roger

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RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 8:40:40 AM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline 		On a related issue, if it shows a yellow diamond does that mean only my supply will flow into that hex - thus showing the enemy cannot supply that route?

Roger

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RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 8:47:43 AM   
Chris21wen

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

Ah that is good to know. When i try it I don't get percentages i just get little yellow diamonds showing where - I assume- my supply will flow. Odd. That's the 1.0.6.1108r9 patch.

A nice feature, though i'm more interested in the theoretical supply problems my enemy might or might not be having.


Roger


No idea why you don't see the numbers, it's odd.

You can work it out using the table in 8.3.1 but remember it's hexsides that determine ZOC (W will display them)

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RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 8:50:32 AM   
derp

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

Ah that is good to know. When i try it I don't get percentages i just get little yellow diamonds showing where - I assume- my supply will flow. Odd. That's the 1.0.6.1108r9 patch.

A nice feature, though i'm more interested in the theoretical supply problems my enemy might or might not be having.


Roger


No idea why you don't see the numbers, it's odd.

You can work it out using the table in 8.3.1 but remember it's hexsides that determine ZOC (W will display them)


Single-player you get specific numbers. MP you get the dots. If you have a dot, the number is greater than 0.


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was kfsgo, managed to lock myself out of acct. oops.

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RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 8:55:03 AM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline 		Aha, that explains it, strange that just cos I'm in a PBEM I can't see the info. Its the sort of thing the staff would be tracking surely.

Still a useful display feature I was not aware of.

Roger

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RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 9:35:19 AM   
Alfred

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

Sounds like a job for...... you know who, starts with an A........ AKA Supermanual.

Roger




Already addressed in a theoretical sense here.

http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2878790&mpage=1&key=logistics%2C101?

Primarily looked at in section B.2 of the first post but there are other subsequent posts you may find useful.

As to your other related question re a yellow diamond indicating that the enemy can't supply using that route, I'm afraid you can't automatically reach that conclusion.

Most hexsides are neutral (recall the discussion earlier this weak re ZOC and inner/outer door hexside ownership). It is very likely that your own supply path, marked by those yellow diamonds, is traversing through some/mainly neutral hexsides. Being neutral nothing would inherently prevent the enemy supply path also traversing some of those very same neutral hexsides. It all depends on where the respective supply sources are located.

Alfred

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Post #: 10
RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 10:02:05 AM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline 		As always, fantastic help Alfred.

So, to work out how frequently a stack gets supply in a week its about estimating the value of supply cost between the nearest base and the stack....

as you say:

• Four times per week if the overland transportation route amounts to 89 - 100
• Two times per week if the route amounts to 49 – 88
• Once per week if the route amounts to 10 – 48

That gives a nice simple sense to it. Does this mean that no matter whatever the distance the supply will flow at least once per week? Or if the route is less than 10 does supply not flow? For the nearest base to be able to supply a stack then it needs to be able to get supply form another base that has 3X its own need? If said base has say 3x its own need plus 10K supply does that mean the 10K will flow without any let or hindrance to the next base needing it?

Have I understood this right?

As regards the yellow diamond indicator I suspected these were neutral and both sides could supply....... Thanks.

Roger





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Post #: 11
RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 10:23:25 AM   
Alfred

 

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Status: offline 		Yes, basically you have it right.

There is some grey regarding what is the real situation when the supply path returns less than 10. I've certainly found no evidence that in that situation there would ever be any supply deliveries. However I don't discount the possibility that maybe there is an undisclosed special supply routine to deliver such meagre amounts fortnightly or monthly. Even then, were that to be the true case, the delivery would be so infrequent and of such a pitiful amount (taking into account the supply spoilage en route) that in practical terms it would be undiscernable from there being no delivery ever.

The short answer is if the supply path returns less than 10, assume no deliveries are made. This is actually not as draconian as it might appear at first for unlike classical WITP, AE has considerably reduced the cost of moving supply overland. It would therefore be an extremely long supply chain traversing extremely poor terrain to return a supply path of less than 10. Off the top of my head, you would probably have to be fighting in the Chinese Gobi desert or the Australian Great Sandy desert to come close to such a low figure.

That excess 10k would flow but there is a supply cost which is paid in spoilage transfer. There have however over time been some adjustments made to overland resource/oil spoilage rates and I would have to go back and check whether they also applied to supply.

This is all complicated by the new capability of stockpiling at a base. That feature wasn't available when the linked thread was originally posted.

Alfred

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Post #: 12
RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 10:38:59 AM   
Roger Neilson II


Posts: 1517
Joined: 7/16/2006
From: Newcastle upon Tyne. England
Status: offline 		Thanks Alfred, I now feel a lot clearer on these areas.

Roger

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Post #: 13
RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 10:47:24 AM   
Sardaukar


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Joined: 11/28/2001
From: Finland/Israel
Status: offline 		Also, there can be bases with max. daily supply limit that can pass through them, to further complicate the issue.

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Post #: 14
RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 12:57:36 PM   
dr.hal


Posts: 3335
Joined: 6/3/2006
From: Covington LA via Montreal!
Status: offline 		So the max draw acts as a pipe diameter in relation to the flow, only so much can go through no matter what its final destination? Right?

(in reply to Sardaukar)
Post #: 15
RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 1:26:29 PM   
Sardaukar


Posts: 9847
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quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

So the max draw acts as a pipe diameter in relation to the flow, only so much can go through no matter what its final destination? Right?


Right.

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Post #: 16
RE: Supply line length - 4/6/2012 11:39:02 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
Joined: 6/28/2006
From: Near Portland, OR
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

As always, fantastic help Alfred.

So, to work out how frequently a stack gets supply in a week its about estimating the value of supply cost between the nearest base and the stack....

as you say:

• Four times per week if the overland transportation route amounts to 89 - 100
• Two times per week if the route amounts to 49 – 88
• Once per week if the route amounts to 10 – 48



I'm not sure if I can reveal any details or not, but the current code does not have this pattern or levels, though the max is in the 89-100 range. It's also changed from what I said earlier, which is what it was originally.

Bill

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Post #: 17
RE: Supply line length - 4/7/2012 7:32:40 AM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: derp


quote:

ORIGINAL: Chris H


quote:

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

Ah that is good to know. When i try it I don't get percentages i just get little yellow diamonds showing where - I assume- my supply will flow. Odd. That's the 1.0.6.1108r9 patch.

A nice feature, though i'm more interested in the theoretical supply problems my enemy might or might not be having.


Roger


No idea why you don't see the numbers, it's odd.

You can work it out using the table in 8.3.1 but remember it's hexsides that determine ZOC (W will display them)


Single-player you get specific numbers. MP you get the dots. If you have a dot, the number is greater than 0.



OK. makes sense.

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Post #: 18
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