Slitherine

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G4M2e Model 24 Tei
Special version for the transport of the ramming attack bomb plane Kugisho/Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka ("Baka") Model 11, conversions of G4M2a Models 24 Otsu and 24 Hei. Had armour protection for the pilots and fuselage fuel tanks.

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Modifications from the basic Rikko design included the addition of extra 20mm cannon and partial protection for the fuel tanks.

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ORIGINAL: inqistor

Some interesting things about BETTY development:

G4M1

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March 1943: From 663rd machine onwards, 30 mm (1.18 in) rubber ply sheets installed beneath the wing outer surfaces to protect the undersides of the fuel tanks (speed reduced by 9 km/h/6 mph and range by 315 km/196 mi), 5 mm (.2 in) armour plates added into tail gunner's compartment.

(there is no other model for G4M1 in-game)

G4M2 began production in July 1943 (in-game 1/44), and it carried KAI-7 (Mk 7) torpedo (also used by G4M3), which carried:

420kg of explosives, while older model had only 235kg

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The G4M1 continued to be built in parallel until January 1944, when the supply of Kasei 21 engines permitted production to be completely shifted over to the G4M2.

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G4M2e Model 24 Tei
Special version for the transport of the ramming attack bomb plane Kugisho/Yokosuka MXY-7 Ohka ("Baka") Model 11, conversions of G4M2a Models 24 Otsu and 24 Hei. Had armour protection for the pilots and fuselage fuel tanks.

And I can not find any reference to production of G4M1-L (actually the only clear, is conversion of "Bataan-2" for flying in Japanese surrender delegation). There are some listed as wreck locations, but Yamamoto seems to have been transported in bomber variant, not transport (and G4M1 12 model - with some armor). However there is clear mention about conversion of G6M1 into transports, but those planes had completely different armament and:

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Modifications from the basic Rikko design included the addition of extra 20mm cannon and partial protection for the fuel tanks.

And they were out of production already, when war started.

To sum up:
G4M1 got partial protection in March 1943
G4M2, and G4M3 carried bigger torpedo, and bigger bombs
G4M2e (OHKA carrier) had protection
G4M1-L is actually G6M1-L2, and had protection, and better armament (if any)

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ORIGINAL: el cid again
G4M1-L is indeed similar to the G6M1-L2. But the former was a twice converted failed initial production variant -
a "super heavy fighter" intended to escort G3M2 bombers. Similar Allied experiments also failed. Most of the 30
produced were converted first into bomber trainers. Then into transports, given a peculiar designation. The
G4M1-L was a variant of the new build bomber version - which as you point out does exist in a number of places -
in spite of a lack of mention in most sources. It does get mentioned by Francillon I think, but with no numbers or
production dates, if I remember correctly.

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In any case, I got my materials from unpublished, Japanese sources
at the National Diet Library, aided by a retired Japanese captain, while I was stationed at Yokosuka - and I use
the more limited materials in English references only to suppliment the vast notes I brought back from Japan. I spent
20 years compiling a spreadsheet of every aircraft variant identified - if anyone wants a copy of it. It is more detailed
than we use in Matrix formats - with all sorts of details - usually from manufacturers specs vice from service docs or
reference books.

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ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


well.. seeing how 13mm armor was only good against 7.7mm rounds..5mm plates for the tail gunner won't stop anything

and the wings were integral tanks, some rubber in a few places won't help

a true SSF would reduce the range by 33%

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ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


well.. seeing how 13mm armor was only good against 7.7mm rounds..5mm plates for the tail gunner won't stop anything

and the wings were integral tanks, some rubber in a few places won't help

a true SSF would reduce the range by 33%


betty was really a plane that no-one wanted (the deisgners didn't want to design it, crews didn't want to fly it)

it had good range, but the Zero had less - either the Zero needed more external fuel or the Betty needed full armor protection

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probably the best 2-engine torpedo plane would have been the high speed mitsubishi
Ki-46 dinah (375 mph)

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ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


i may know a little about planes.. since then i designed a few


dinah was well suited to being a torpedo plane (it was very small and had a high speed with small engines)
but they converted it into a fighter instead (low climb rate makes a poor interceptor)

need to understand that any plane can perform any function, just not particularly well
japanese were in a state of panic and tried using the wrong designs for the wrong purposes

(Ki-67 peggy as a fighter with the 75mm gun )

(D4Y judy as a fighter )

(german Ju-88 as a fighter )


axis bmbr planes took the classic approach

2 engines
several small defensive guns
low-medium speed

RAF was ahead of everyone else, with 4-engined heavy designs or high speed 2-engined designs

high speed Dinah would be a lot more effective against CAP since (even with a torpedo attached)
it would still be faster than the F4F-4

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Tactically
1. Name the total number of IJAAF units that are currently trained as of 08DEC1941 in torpedo attack.
2. Do you understand that go like a bat out of heck is good for a bomber, but to be successful in deliever of a torpedo you need to slow the aircraft down and not impart too much kenetic energy into the torpedo to cause it either skip off the top of the water or dive deep and never surface in time to be successful in striking the target?
3. For the land war in China and the expected attacks into the Western colonies of Malay Pennusila and Dutch East Indies how many potential targets do you percieve that we in the IJAAF would strike compared to the better trained IJNAF units currently in French Indo-China, Taiwain, Marshalls, Carolinas and all the rest of our bases in our own co-prosperity sphere?
4. How many torpedoes does the IJAAF have on stock at this moment and how to you propose to pre-position them to the forward army airbases so they could be used to attack enemy shipping?
5. Since ‚Č‚µ (Keine, „N„u„„, Geen) of our pilots and crews are trained in torpedo attack, how do you propose to achieve this training to bring in proficency prior to our strike south on 08DEC1941?

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ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


if you want another example of a bad design for the wrong purpose.. the first 30 betties were built as fighters

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It is a bit unfair not to say it was something WE did too!

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ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf



one other note.. actually B-26s armed with a pair of British Mark XII torpedoes would have been pretty excellent
instead of 4, have 40 on midway, with decent fighter escort

but historycally,the lack of good torpedoes forced the USAAF to improvise anti-ship tactics (skip-bmbing),
fortunately they were profficient at it in time for the battle of the bismarck sea

japanese had excellent torpedoes but by 1943 had no way to deliver them to their targets
(the betties were relegated to night torpedo missions, and except for sinking the cruiser chicago, had no major success)

japanese torpedo planes were simply too slow and vulnerable, and their fighter escorts were worn down by the
attritional fighting above rabaul

what was required was either a heavily armored torpedo plane that could defend itself from enemy fighters
or a fast torpedo plane that could reduce the time available for interception

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ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

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It is a bit unfair not to say it was something WE did too!

Hehe..my point was just that Dinah was to Japan as Mosquito was to Britain

they just should have made a lot more of them

(and fewer sallys)

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ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf
if you want another example of a bad design for the wrong purpose.. the first 30 betties were built as fighters

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ORIGINAL: el cid again

The QUALITY of torpedo varied - improved - over time - and is well modeled by the game system.
But the SIZE didn't change - although it was eventually considered replacing the torpedo with
a missile or an internal explosive charge for use if the plane dived into a ship (preferably an AP).

However, BIGGER torpedoes were considered for a decendent of the Betty - the G7M.
It would deliver a 21 inch long lance - not only delivering more punch - but from a greater stand
off range (slightly greater anyway - you would still have to get close to have much of a chance UNLESS
it was one of those huge Allied formations - where you could hardly miss if the torpedo ran for
20 nautical miles!!)

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This was a pre-war torpedo although still in service ten years later. "Nell" (G3M) torpedo bombers carried this weapon against the HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse on 10 December 1941.

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Compared to Mod 1, Mod 2 had a heavier explosive charge, a thinner air vessel and anti-roll stabilizers. It was first delivered in April 1941 and was carried into action by "Betty" (G4M) bombers against the Prince of Wales and Repulse. A version of this torpedo heavily modified for use in shallow waters was carried by "Kate" (B5N) attack planes at Pearl Harbor.