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RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor troy (A)

 
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RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/12/2012 1:58:04 PM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

I'd like to see the final tally of ships sunk in this endeavor. But to sink them with major units on board will surely hurt his ability to carry out any strong offensive operations for a good while as they take on new squads.

Did you have those B-26 trained for naval attacks?



I didn't take exact notes on which ship was sunk but my estimation on xAP/xAK is around 50-70, a dozen or more escorts PB/SC/TB, over a dozen destroyers, five heavy and two light cruisers and a battleship. Three or four more cruisers being damaged.

Major parts of two IJA divisions being sunk with other units, probably 1000 av lost, hundreds of guns and over a thousand support and engineering squads plus a lot of vehicles. Up to now this has cost us probably halve a dozen carrier aircraft a couple of Marauders and torp biplanes, several CA/CL damaged but none sunk plus halve a dozen DD damaged, can't remember if there were any lost but the damaged ones now are stuck at Perth. POW and Repulse are damaged too.

In total I rate it a full success as we dished out major damage for literally none in return.

Re the Marauders, yes, those are fully lownav trained.

_____________________________


(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 421
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/12/2012 2:05:19 PM   
paullus99


Posts: 1985
Joined: 1/23/2002
Status: offline 		Your opponent has no right to complain, giving that he's pushed the system to its limits to exploit each and every part of the game engine (and the particulars of Scenario #2 as well). You would be stupid not to push right back & use everything in your own arsenal in response....

_____________________________

Never Underestimate the Power of a Small Tactical Nuclear Weapon...

(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 422
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/12/2012 2:54:09 PM   
Crackaces


Posts: 3858
Joined: 7/9/2011
Status: offline 		I wold also propose because you sunk a lot but not everything he has these fraqments to deal with and although your adversary has shown some propensity for the opertional level but getting wacked this turn .. he has not shown a liking to the strategic details ... it will be interesting if he shuts off replacements for these units creating a few units that can stand on their own or they draw eveningly producing milktoast units that you attrite easily ...

(in reply to paullus99)
Post #: 423
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 10:41:56 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 20, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ASW attack near Koepang at 68,116

Japanese Ships
TB Chidori
TB Tomozuru
TB Hatsukari

Allied Ships
SS S-38, hits 3



SS S-38 is sighted by escort
TB Tomozuru fails to find sub, continues to search...
TB Hatsukari fails to find sub and abandons search
TB Tomozuru attacking submerged sub ....
TB Tomozuru fails to find sub, continues to search...
TB Tomozuru fails to find sub, continues to search...
TB Tomozuru fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 13 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 5
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 29
Ki-30 Ann x 50
Ki-36 Ida x 12
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 37
Ki-51 Sonia x 15



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 1 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 6 damaged
Ki-36 Ida: 1 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 3 damaged
Ki-51 Sonia: 3 damaged



Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 65

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
29 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
12 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 30 kg GP Bomb
12 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 18



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 4 damaged



Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 10

Aircraft Attacking:
18 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 15 NM, estimated altitude 12,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 4



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Albany at 50,156

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 18 NM, estimated altitude 18,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 15
D3A1 Val x 14



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
AMC Pansy, Bomb hits 11, and is sunk

this time an escort is sunk as the enemy carrier group closes in on Perth... my carriers are save and the damaged RN cruiser (those that were fighting CA Myoko) are moving at 2 and 3 hexes per phase towards Cape Town for repairs... a move West of the IJN carriers could catch them within a couple of turns but due to the fact the IJN carriers didn't move in at full speed I doubt he will be trying to pursuit...

Aircraft Attacking:
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring AMC Pansy


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Busselton at 48,149

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
B5N2 Kate x 9
D3A1 Val x 13



Japanese aircraft losses
D3A1 Val: 1 damaged

Allied Ships
HDML P 9, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
HDML P 4
HDML P 16, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
HDML P 11, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
HDML P 14
HDML P 13, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
HDML P 15

these HDML were ordered to defend Busselton against any single freighters trying to unload there...

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 1st RAN Base Force, at 73,130 , near Wyndham

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6



No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
52 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


1st RAN Base force has been combined at Broome weeks ago and was sent over the trails towards Katherine... no idea how the enemy was able to suddenly spot the unit in the middle of nowhere without any recon before... no enemy base or unit within three hexes...


Aircraft Attacking:
6 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sub attack near Koepang at 68,116

Japanese Ships
xAK Ada Maru, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
SC Ch 19

Allied Ships
SS S-38

there were quite some ships being sunk at and around Koepang so far...


SS S-38 launches 4 torpedoes at xAK Ada Maru
SC Ch 19 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 19 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 19 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 19 fails to find sub, continues to search...
SC Ch 19 fails to find sub, continues to search...
Escort abandons search for sub


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bandjermasin (60,99)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1321 troops, 1 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 90

Defending force 1007 troops, 3 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 34

Japanese adjusted assault: 39

Allied adjusted defense: 19

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 1)

Japanese Assault reduces fortifications to 0

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-), morale(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:


Allied ground losses:
77 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 3 (3 destroyed, 0 disabled)


Assaulting units:
8th Tank Regiment
Bandasan SNLF

Defending units:
SE Borneo KNIL Battalion
Bandjermasin Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Malang (55,105)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2292 troops, 212 guns, 60 vehicles, Assault Value = 472

Defending force 36288 troops, 305 guns, 124 vehicles, Assault Value = 666

Japanese ground losses:
Guns lost 3 (1 destroyed, 2 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
51 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 4 (1 destroyed, 3 disabled)


Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 2nd SNLF
16th Infantry Regiment
41st Infantry Regiment
143rd Infantry Regiment
II/81st Naval Guard Unit
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
5th Mortar Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd Mortar Battalion
2nd Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
Lijfwacht Cav Sqn
4th KNIL Regiment
Marinier Battalion
1st Regt Cavalerie
2nd KNIL Regiment
Mobiele Eenheid Battalion
Tjilatjap KNIL Battalion
1st KNIL Regiment
1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion
3rd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
2nd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
Barisan KNIL Regiment
6th KNIL Regiment
MLD
2 ML-KNIL Aviation
1 ML-KNIL Aviation
North Java Base Force
Soerabaja Base Force
ABDA
ML-KNIL
South Java Base Force
Batavia Base Force
Commandement Marine
KNIL Army Command
Bandoeng Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Oodnadatta (74,149)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 84 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 7

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 7

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 7 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Oodnadatta !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)



Assaulting units:
1st Raiding Rgt /2




as my carriers are retreating now for R&R our offensive capabilities in the area are gone but we have done enough damage for now...




Attachment (1)

_____________________________


(in reply to Crackaces)
Post #: 424
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 11:04:53 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 21, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near Trivandrum at 24,44

Japanese Ships
SS I-162

Allied Ships
xAK Shirala, Torpedo hits 1, heavy damage

that freighter showed up at Colombo yesterday and I wanted to move the ship to Aden as there is no need for her around Ceylon... a damned sub finds her and puts a torp into the freighter but Shirala may manage to get to Cochin for immediate repairs...

xAK Shirala is sighted by SS I-162
SS I-162 launches 2 torpedoes


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 43 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 14 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet

hmm, I won't oppose those Oscar sweeps in China as there is just no reason to do so... amazing to see that they are coming in at 10000ft...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Perth , at 49,147

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 95 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 33 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 14



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Stronghold, Bomb hits 1, on fire
DD Vendetta, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

a pity but it was clear that the DD at Perth will be sunk there and I couldn't move them due to damage... there are more ships disbanded at Perth and I guess none will survive...

Aircraft Attacking:
14 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 11000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb

Magazine explodes on DD Vendetta

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Perth , at 49,147

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 66 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 19 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 13



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 7 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
DD Craven, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

the strikes are coming from Geraldton, he must have been able to land some aviation support...

Aircraft Attacking:
12 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet *
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Malang , at 55,105

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 30 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 58
Ki-30 Ann x 15
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 23



Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 6 damaged

Allied aircraft losses
Do-24K-1: 1 damaged


Allied ground losses:
12 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 7
Airbase supply hits 2
Runway hits 26

Aircraft Attacking:
16 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
20 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
22 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 4



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on TF, near Busselton at 38,155

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 19
D3A1 Val x 14



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
xAKL Schouten, Bomb hits 3, and is sunk



Aircraft Attacking:
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 10000'
Naval Attack: 1 x 250 kg SAP Bomb

Heavy smoke from fires obscuring xAKL Schouten


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Amphibious Assault at Duff Islands (123,142)

TF 337 troops unloading over beach at Duff Islands, 123,142





--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bandjermasin (60,99)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 1321 troops, 1 guns, 139 vehicles, Assault Value = 90

Defending force 889 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 19

Japanese adjusted assault: 43

Allied adjusted defense: 10

Japanese assault odds: 4 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Bandjermasin !!!

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), morale(-), experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
11 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
379 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 6 disabled
Non Combat: 11 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 2


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
8th Tank Regiment
Bandasan SNLF

Defending units:
SE Borneo KNIL Battalion
Bandjermasin Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Malang (55,105)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2292 troops, 211 guns, 60 vehicles, Assault Value = 472

Defending force 36345 troops, 305 guns, 123 vehicles, Assault Value = 669


Allied ground losses:
31 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
16th Infantry Regiment
Yokosuka 2nd SNLF
41st Infantry Regiment
143rd Infantry Regiment
II/81st Naval Guard Unit
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
5th Mortar Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
Lijfwacht Cav Sqn
Mobiele Eenheid Battalion
1st Regt Cavalerie
2nd KNIL Regiment
2nd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
Marinier Battalion
3rd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
Barisan KNIL Regiment
1st KNIL Regiment
Tjilatjap KNIL Battalion
4th KNIL Regiment
1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion
6th KNIL Regiment
Soerabaja Base Force
MLD
ABDA
Batavia Base Force
North Java Base Force
South Java Base Force
ML-KNIL
Commandement Marine
2 ML-KNIL Aviation
KNIL Army Command
1 ML-KNIL Aviation
Bandoeng Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 55,48 (near Ramree Island)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 568 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 78

Defending force 444 troops, 9 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 18

Japanese adjusted assault: 8

Allied adjusted defense: 4

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), fatigue(-)

Japanese ground losses:
22 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
87 casualties reported
Squads: 3 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 1


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
55th Cavalry Regiment
7th RTA/B Division

Defending units:
Rangoon BAF Battalion
6th Burma Rifles Battalion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Duff Islands (123,142)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 252 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 5

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 2

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Duff Islands !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-), supply(-)



Assaulting units:
5th Indpt SNLF Coy


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Wagga Wagga (85,167)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 86 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 6

Defending force 2664 troops, 11 guns, 3 vehicles, Assault Value = 13

Japanese adjusted assault: 1

Allied adjusted defense: 24

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 24 (fort level 3)

Combat modifiers
Defender: leaders(-), experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)

Japanese ground losses:
15 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Assaulting units:
1st Raiding Rgt /3

Defending units:
RAAF OTU Wagga


the enemy starts what I call para spam and this will go on for the next couple of turns... I've first watched him doing so and raised the issue as being ridicoulos as he used only a dozen paratroopers to take most of Australia's flags and dots, claiming towns with 40000 citizens with a para assault of 12-24 soldiers... after he took all bases, enabling his divisions at Port Augusta to rail warp around in Southern Australia he said he notices I feel strong about it and he wouldn't do it anymore... easy said after you have taken all objectives you wanted to take... of course the para spam completely screwed up all my strat movement having my divisions freezing in the middle of the rail connections...

I said he would have enough skill to go forward without using every single exploit of the game one can think of and I would applaud him if he would use a full para regiment to take a base and move in his divisions but what he will be doing in the next couple of turns is taking away any sense of realism (IMO, that was never a goal of my opponent )... speaking about real life it is ridicoulos enough anyway that there magically appear hundreds of trains to move 4 IJA divs plus support around in Southern Australia after a dozen paras take a flag 600 miles away but doing so and taking 40000 square miles of terrain as there is no such thing as a frontline in the game makes me just

I was told I should just have used a base force for each empty dot and flag which would have prevented him from carrying out his brilliant plan to take most of Australia with a single para unit and after I stated that he takes towns with tens of thousands of citizens (and quite an area) I was told that those citizens could only raise with forks and it would be fine to take all these bases with one or two dozen paras each, as these would be kind of commandos... yeah, in a game of that scale... real life meant having the need of ten times more soldiers to garisson the places than the Japanese use to seize them... once again, I failed to think through all exploits (which surely some ppl will find ok - just as with every single issue ever raised on the forum) and have to pay the bill...

when we finally agreed, I could do nothing about all the lost bases anyway and had to accept it...


< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/13/2012 11:09:33 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 425
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 11:13:55 AM   
EUBanana


Posts: 4552
Joined: 9/30/2003
From: Little England
Status: offline 		This is just sad.

I'd start skip bombing the crap out of him with heavy bombers, and if doesn't like it and ragequits, well, too bad.

_____________________________


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 426
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 11:24:29 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana

This is just sad.

I'd start skip bombing the crap out of him with heavy bombers, and if doesn't like it and ragequits, well, too bad.



well I can of course bomb him and destroy those mini para drops easily if I wish to but the flag/dot will stay Japanese of course so he gets what he wants for the loss of a couple of combat squads which aren't worth as much as a small freighter... I think with the different views and problems we've got with each other the only thing that keeps us playing is the time we've spent already...


AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 22, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Perth , at 49,147

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid detected at 34 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 12



Japanese aircraft losses
G4M1 Betty: 1 damaged



Aircraft Attacking:
12 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 11000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 23
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 29
Ki-30 Ann x 31
Ki-36 Ida x 12
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 27
Ki-51 Sonia x 15



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 5 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 7 damaged
Ki-36 Ida: 2 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 2 damaged
Ki-51 Sonia: 1 destroyed by flak


Allied ground losses:
6 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 44

Aircraft Attacking:
24 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
29 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
12 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 30 kg GP Bomb
5 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 4 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 1 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 8



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 damaged



Runway hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-30 Ann x 20



No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
8 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled


Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on TF, near Busselton at 48,149

Weather in hex: Heavy rain

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 16,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 7
D3A1 Val x 9



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
HDML P 15
HDML P 14, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk

the enemy carries now ist NW of Perth... seems like they may retire towards Timor...

Aircraft Attacking:
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
1 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000' *
Naval Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid spotted at 39 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 13 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet


and he keeps sweeping empty Siangtan...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bayombong (80,75)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 603 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 21

Defending force 0 troops, 5 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1

Japanese adjusted assault: 20

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 20 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), op mode(-), leaders(+), disruption(-)
preparation(-), fatigue(-), supply(-)
Attacker:



Assaulting units:
I./33rd Inf Regt

Defending units:
1st USMC AA Battalion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Malang (55,105)

Japanese Bombardment attack

Attacking force 2292 troops, 212 guns, 60 vehicles, Assault Value = 867

Defending force 36401 troops, 305 guns, 123 vehicles, Assault Value = 670


Allied ground losses:
27 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 3 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Vehicles lost 3 (2 destroyed, 1 disabled)


Assaulting units:
56th Division
Yokosuka 2nd SNLF
41st Infantry Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment
143rd Infantry Regiment
II/81st Naval Guard Unit
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
5th Mortar Battalion
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Mortar Battalion
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
2nd Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion
3rd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
1st Regt Cavalerie
Mobiele Eenheid Battalion
Lijfwacht Cav Sqn
4th KNIL Regiment
1st KNIL Regiment
Tjilatjap KNIL Battalion
2nd KNIL Regiment
2nd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
Marinier Battalion
Barisan KNIL Regiment
6th KNIL Regiment
ML-KNIL
KNIL Army Command
Soerabaja Base Force
Commandement Marine
ABDA
MLD
2 ML-KNIL Aviation
1 ML-KNIL Aviation
North Java Base Force
Batavia Base Force
South Java Base Force
Bandoeng Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 55,48 (near Ramree Island)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 560 troops, 2 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 78

Defending force 216 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8

Japanese adjusted assault: 20

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 20 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), leaders(-), fatigue(-), morale(-)
experience(-)
Attacker: shock(+)


Allied ground losses:
57 casualties reported
Squads: 2 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Units retreated 1


Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
55th Cavalry Regiment
7th RTA/B Division

Defending units:
6th Burma Rifles Battalion


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Tocumwal (83,167)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 25 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 1

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Tocumwal !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)



Assaulting units:
1st Raiding Rgt /4

para spam...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Roto (85,164)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 87 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 5

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 5 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Roto !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(+), leaders(-)



Assaulting units:
1st Raiding Rgt /5

para spam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1st USMC AA Battalion Wiped Out at Bayombong by attrition!!!



< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/13/2012 11:25:29 AM >

_____________________________


(in reply to EUBanana)
Post #: 427
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 11:26:46 AM   
HansBolter


Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy











--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 1st RAN Base Force, at 73,130 , near Wyndham

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6



No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
52 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


1st RAN Base force has been combined at Broome weeks ago and was sent over the trails towards Katherine... no idea how the enemy was able to suddenly spot the unit in the middle of nowhere without any recon before... no enemy base or unit within three hexes...





This is one of the most frustrating and infuriating weaknesses of the game engine. It happens to me repeatedly every game in the Ironman scenario against the AI, especially in China. Units hundreds of miles from any enemy ground unit capable of spotting them and that no enemy plane has ever flown recon within a hundreds of miles of become automatic targets as soon as they go from combat mode to move mode. The AI automatically knows where each and every vulnerable target is. And it's not just the strategic AI in a game agaisnt the AI it's also the tactical AI in player v.s player games as demonstrated here. Very, very frustrating, but there is nothing to be done about it.

_____________________________

Hans


(in reply to castor troy)
Post #: 428
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 11:43:47 AM   
castor troy


Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
From: Austria
Status: offline 		AFTER ACTION REPORTS FOR Mar 23, 42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Submarine attack near King Island at 81,173

Japanese Ships
DD Kuroshio, heavy damage

Allied Ships
SS S-40



DD Kuroshio is sighted by SS S-40
SS S-40 launches 2 torpedoes

Kuroshio has hit a mine at Adelaide earlier and is now trying to move the same way his other TFs took going through the Bass Strait South of Melbourne and she is spotted and attacked by S-40 but the torps miss...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Sydney , at 90,167

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 23 NM, estimated altitude 38,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 7 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 37



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
37 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 38500 feet

the enemy now got Oscars at Brisbane...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 36



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
36 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Perth , at 49,147

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid detected at 93 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 9



No Japanese losses

Allied Ships
DD Stronghold, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Banckert, Bomb hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Craven, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
xAK Salland, Bomb hits 2, on fire
xAK Chios, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage



Port hits 6
Port fuel hits 3

Aircraft Attacking:
9 x G4M1 Betty bombing from 11000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb, 4 x 60 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 5 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 25
Ki-30 Ann x 12
Ki-36 Ida x 25
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 25
Ki-51 Sonia x 25



No Japanese losses



Airbase hits 29
Airbase supply hits 19
Runway hits 81

after a couple of turns with Oscar sweeps over Siangtan only the enemy now starts to bomb the place... reason is beyond me and if he wants to do so, fine with me...

Aircraft Attacking:
25 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet *
Airfield Attack: 2 x 50 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
9 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 30 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 14 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-30 Ann x 8



No Japanese losses



Airbase hits 1
Airbase supply hits 2

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 79 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 24 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-Ic Sally x 23
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 6
Ki-30 Ann x 32
Ki-36 Ida x 3
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 26
Ki-51 Sonia x 3



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-Ic Sally: 5 damaged
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 1 damaged



Airbase hits 8
Airbase supply hits 3
Runway hits 19

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
6 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-21-Ic Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 30 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
5 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Clark Field , at 79,76

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid detected at 78 NM, estimated altitude 11,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 23
Ki-30 Ann x 20
Ki-36 Ida x 9
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 8
Ki-51 Sonia x 11



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 7 damaged
Ki-30 Ann: 1 damaged
Ki-36 Ida: 1 damaged
Ki-48-Ib Lily: 1 damaged
Ki-51 Sonia: 1 damaged



Airbase hits 9
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 20

Aircraft Attacking:
23 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
11 x Ki-51 Sonia bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 50 kg GP Bomb
9 x Ki-36 Ida bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 30 kg GP Bomb
8 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
20 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Sydney , at 90,167

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 65 NM, estimated altitude 40,500 feet.
Estimated time to target is 22 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 4



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 38500 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Malang , at 55,105

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid spotted at 38 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 10 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-21-IIa Sally x 67
Ki-30 Ann x 15
Ki-48-Ib Lily x 25



Japanese aircraft losses
Ki-21-IIa Sally: 6 damaged


Allied ground losses:
13 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


Airbase hits 10
Airbase supply hits 5
Runway hits 44

Aircraft Attacking:
20 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
15 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
23 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb
25 x Ki-48-Ib Lily bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 100 kg GP Bomb
24 x Ki-21-IIa Sally bombing from 11000 feet
Airfield Attack: 4 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 16 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 4 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-30 Ann x 27



No Japanese losses



Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 5

Aircraft Attacking:
27 x Ki-30 Ann bombing from 6000 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Siangtan , at 81,52

Weather in hex: Light cloud

Raid spotted at 12 NM, estimated altitude 15,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 3 minutes

Japanese aircraft
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 4



No Japanese losses



Aircraft Attacking:
4 x Ki-43-Ic Oscar sweeping at 10000 feet



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on 2nd Recon Regiment, at 75,163 (Adelaide)

Weather in hex: Thunderstorms

Raid spotted at 20 NM, estimated altitude 14,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 6 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 8
Ki-43-Ic Oscar x 7
Ki-44 Tojo x 2


Allied aircraft
B-17E Fortress x 24


Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed

Allied aircraft losses
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed, 7 damaged

Japanese ground losses:
Vehicles lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)

the enemy even brought that experimental Tojo unit to South Australia... we lose no less than 3 of our precious B-17 and once again I can only say that they are not as indestructable as a JFB may tell you... every halve skilled IJ player should be able to drain the 15 B-17 replacements per month easily...


Aircraft Attacking:
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
5 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb
6 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 10000 feet
Ground Attack: 8 x 500 lb GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Hosho-1 with A6M2 Zero (8 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
8 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000
Raid is overhead
1st Sentai with Ki-43-Ic Oscar (7 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
7 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000
Raid is overhead
47th I.F.Chutai with Ki-44 Tojo (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 11000
Raid is overhead

Sakagawa, T. in a Ki-44 Tojo makes head on attack ... forces B-17E Fortress out of formation

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 1st Raiding Regiment, at 85,167 (Wagga Wagga)

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 8 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 2 minutes


Allied aircraft
Hudson I x 2


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
9 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)



Aircraft Attacking:
2 x Hudson I bombing from 6000 feet *
Ground Attack: 2 x 250 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 1st Raiding Regiment, at 85,167 (Wagga Wagga)

Weather in hex: Heavy cloud

Raid spotted at 19 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 8 minutes


Allied aircraft
Wirraway x 48


No Allied losses

Japanese ground losses:
69 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 1 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled



Aircraft Attacking:
9 x Wirraway bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb
6 x Wirraway bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb
9 x Wirraway bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb
9 x Wirraway bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb
6 x Wirraway bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb
9 x Wirraway bombing from 6000 feet
Ground Attack: 2 x 100 lb GP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on Perth , at 49,147

Weather in hex: Overcast

Raid detected at 118 NM, estimated altitude 10,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 50 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 21
B5N2 Kate x 64



Japanese aircraft losses
B5N2 Kate: 6 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied Ships
DD Banckert, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Stronghold, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Craven, Bomb hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
AMc Olive Cam, Bomb hits 1, and is sunk
xAK Salland, Bomb hits 2, heavy fires, heavy damage
xAK Chios, Bomb hits 1, on fire, heavy damage

enemy carrier group launches a strike against my ships at Perth, bluebook only uses his Kates on level bombing to minimize losses as Vals would have probably suffered a couple of bombers downed by flak... overall I am not amazed by the flak effect over Perth though as there are quite some 3.7 inch guns... as to land based flak I don't see much difference to stock, actually I haven't experienced any difference yet, ship based flak is totally different to stock though... one of those IJ advantages I would also like to have would be bigger bombs than 1000lb as the officials ever since refused to change the experience need of bombers to drop bigger bombs as in WITP... one of those misteries to me, you reduce overall experience by something like 15-20 points but refuse to also down adjust experience needs to drop the big bombs even though the routine is still there...

sometimes I think this is the same as politics...


Repair Shipyard hits 1
Port hits 7
Port fuel hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
17 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 8000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
13 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 8000 feet
City Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
25 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 8000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
9 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 8000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Clark Field (79,76)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 55968 troops, 418 guns, 457 vehicles, Assault Value = 2141

Defending force 72436 troops, 881 guns, 600 vehicles, Assault Value = 2365

Japanese adjusted assault: 1310

Allied adjusted defense: 2275

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), preparation(-), experience(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
7254 casualties reported
Squads: 195 destroyed, 692 disabled
Non Combat: 5 destroyed, 126 disabled
Engineers: 39 destroyed, 107 disabled
Guns lost 84 (4 destroyed, 80 disabled)
Vehicles lost 78 (4 destroyed, 74 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
1699 casualties reported
Squads: 19 destroyed, 314 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 40 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 43 disabled
Guns lost 54 (3 destroyed, 51 disabled)
Vehicles lost 68 (3 destroyed, 65 disabled)

enemy orders his troops to attack Clark Field after months and months of daily bombings without any interuption or notable losses but the attack fails miserably... if I wouldn't have allowed my flak units to take on replacements which has led to all my supply going through my AA guns I could hold easily until the end of 42... but supply will be an issue...

Assaulting units:
10th Garrison Unit
4th Brigade
19th Ind. Engineer Regiment
Kure 3rd SNLF
Guards Mixed Brigade
16th Engineer Regiment
21st Ind. Engineer Regiment
11th Indpt Infantry Regiment
9th Infantry Regiment
65th Brigade
III./4th Infantry Battalion
16th Recon Regiment
2nd Tank Regiment
20th Ind. Engineer Regiment
7th Tank Regiment
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment
4th Tank Regiment
20th Division
16th Naval Guard Unit
8th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
9th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
15th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
2nd Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
14th Army
3rd Ind. Engineer Regiment

Defending units:
192nd Tank Battalion
11th PA Infantry Division
31st Infantry Regiment
81st PA Infantry Division
1st PA Infantry Division
57th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
2nd PA Constabulary Division
4th Marine Regiment
51st PA Infantry Division
14th PS Engineer Regiment
3rd/12th PA Inf Battalion
194th Tank Battalion
61st PA Infantry Division
71st PA Infantry Division
93rd PA Infantry Regiment
41st PA Infantry Division
45th PS Infantry Regimental Combat Team
31st PA Infantry Division
73rd PA Infantry Regiment
21st PA Infantry Division
4th/101st PA Battalion
Bataan USN Base Force
PAF Aviation
301st Construction Battalion
803rd Engineer Aviation Battalion
86th PS Coastal Artillery Battalion
USAFFE
Provisional GMC Grp
202nd PA Construction Battalion
201st PA Construction Battalion
I Philippine Corps
88th PS Field Artillery Regiment
Cavite USN Base Force
II Philippine Corps
Far East USAAF
Asiatic Fleet
301st PA Field Artillery Regiment


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Malang (55,105)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 27405 troops, 443 guns, 121 vehicles, Assault Value = 872

Defending force 36467 troops, 305 guns, 121 vehicles, Assault Value = 671

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 511

Allied adjusted defense: 4279

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 8 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
3071 casualties reported
Squads: 83 destroyed, 229 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 53 disabled
Engineers: 2 destroyed, 19 disabled
Guns lost 107 (20 destroyed, 87 disabled)
Vehicles lost 10 (1 destroyed, 9 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
413 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 51 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 7 disabled
Guns lost 21 (1 destroyed, 20 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (3 destroyed, 9 disabled)

looks like IJ command ordered attacks on all fronts today, this one also fails miserably, even more so than the attack at Clark Field... when I see that result I feel confirmed that I am going with the right strategy (for me) of only defending my strongholds instead of throwing away my troops for no gain at all trying to stop the advance of the superior IJ units... I am sure the enemy would be able to use those 800 av in Australia if I would have used the Dutch trying to defend the whole island... as it is now he has to either keep some units as POW guards or he tries to knock out the Dutch, in any case he has to keep troops here he could use elsewhere, same goes for Clark Field...


Assaulting units:
Yokosuka 2nd SNLF
56th Division
143rd Infantry Regiment
41st Infantry Regiment
16th Infantry Regiment
II/81st Naval Guard Unit
14th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
3rd Medium Field Artillery Regiment
18th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
3rd Ind. Mountain Gun Regiment
3rd Mortar Battalion
5th Mortar Battalion
2nd Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
Tjilatjap KNIL Battalion
1st Regt Cavalerie
Mobiele Eenheid Battalion
1st KNIL Regiment
4th KNIL Regiment
3rd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
Barisan KNIL Regiment
Lijfwacht Cav Sqn
Marinier Battalion
2nd KNIL Regiment
1st KNIL Landstorm Battalion
2nd KNIL Landstorm Battalion
6th KNIL Regiment
Soerabaja Base Force
Commandement Marine
North Java Base Force
South Java Base Force
2 ML-KNIL Aviation
Batavia Base Force
MLD
ABDA
ML-KNIL
KNIL Army Command
1 ML-KNIL Aviation
Bandoeng Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Langsa (46,74)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4954 troops, 43 guns, 2 vehicles, Assault Value = 180

Defending force 7815 troops, 32 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 263

Japanese adjusted assault: 52

Allied adjusted defense: 313

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 6 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), morale(-), experience(-)
Attacker: fatigue(-), supply(-)

Japanese ground losses:
1071 casualties reported
Squads: 16 destroyed, 87 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 16 (4 destroyed, 12 disabled)


Allied ground losses:
95 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

like I've said, attacks on all fronts today... North Sumatra with the stronghold at Langsa also holds off the attackers easily and I am sure the enemy won't be pleased about this...


Assaulting units:
13th Indpt Infantry Regiment
Sasebo 8th SNLF

Defending units:
Korps Marechausee Battalion
NS KNIL Territory Regiment
Medan Coastal Gun Battalion
WS KNIL Territory Regiment
North Sumatra Base Force
West Sumatra Base Force


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Coffs Harbour (95,162)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 4763 troops, 42 guns, 25 vehicles, Assault Value = 321

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 83

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 83 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Coffs Harbour !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker:



Assaulting units:
38th/A Division
38th/C Division

enemy advance in SE Australia... two regiments without any support... all this looks to be very rushed and not like a carefully planned operation (expect bringing two para units and flying in some transports of course)...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Bathurst (89,166)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 13 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 0

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 99 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE Bathurst !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)



Assaulting units:
1st Raiding Rgt /3

para spam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at King Island (79,173)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 87 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 4

Defending force 0 troops, 0 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 0

Japanese adjusted assault: 3

Allied adjusted defense: 1

Japanese assault odds: 3 to 1 (fort level 0)

Japanese forces CAPTURE King Island !!!

Combat modifiers
Attacker: shock(+), leaders(-)



Assaulting units:
1st Raiding Rgt /6

para spam

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at Kalgoorlie (56,147)

Japanese Shock attack

Attacking force 121 troops, 1 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 8

Defending force 4328 troops, 48 guns, 103 vehicles, Assault Value = 196

Assault collapses, attacking force wiped out

Japanese ground losses:
156 casualties reported
Squads: 7 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 3 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Guns lost 1 (1 destroyed, 0 disabled)
Units destroyed 1



Assaulting units:
2nd Raiding Rgt /1

Defending units:
2nd Recce Battalion
3rd Motor Brigade
44th Australian Battalion
14th RAAF Base Force


para spam

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/13/2012 11:46:53 AM >

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RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 11:46:26 AM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: HansBolter


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy











--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Afternoon Air attack on 1st RAN Base Force, at 73,130 , near Wyndham

Weather in hex: Partial cloud

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 7,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
G4M1 Betty x 6



No Japanese losses


Allied ground losses:
52 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled


1st RAN Base force has been combined at Broome weeks ago and was sent over the trails towards Katherine... no idea how the enemy was able to suddenly spot the unit in the middle of nowhere without any recon before... no enemy base or unit within three hexes...





This is one of the most frustrating and infuriating weaknesses of the game engine. It happens to me repeatedly every game in the Ironman scenario against the AI, especially in China. Units hundreds of miles from any enemy ground unit capable of spotting them and that no enemy plane has ever flown recon within a hundreds of miles of become automatic targets as soon as they go from combat mode to move mode. The AI automatically knows where each and every vulnerable target is. And it's not just the strategic AI in a game agaisnt the AI it's also the tactical AI in player v.s player games as demonstrated here. Very, very frustrating, but there is nothing to be done about it.



hmm, do you think bluebook has just put his bombers on ground attack without ordering a target and the AI chose that target to be attacked? I was amazed to see that strike and thought it would be a waste as I would keep the Betties on nav attack non stop but just setting them to ground attack without even setting a target would be even more amazing to me.

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RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 12:15:43 PM   
EUBanana


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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy
hmm, do you think bluebook has just put his bombers on ground attack without ordering a target and the AI chose that target to be attacked? I was amazed to see that strike and thought it would be a waste as I would keep the Betties on nav attack non stop but just setting them to ground attack without even setting a target would be even more amazing to me.


Quite possibly, I've seen this sort of thing happen when my heavies are set to commander decision.

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RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 1:21:57 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

the enemy starts what I call para spam and this will go on for the next couple of turns... I've first watched him doing so and raised the issue as being ridicoulos as he used only a dozen paratroopers to take most of Australia's flags and dots, claiming towns with 40000 citizens with a para assault of 12-24 soldiers... after he took all bases, enabling his divisions at Port Augusta to rail warp around in Southern Australia he said he notices I feel strong about it and he wouldn't do it anymore... easy said after you have taken all objectives you wanted to take... of course the para spam completely screwed up all my strat movement having my divisions freezing in the middle of the rail connections...

As police personal, veterans with guns, hunters and civilians with guns don't join the fight in the game on both sides, those bases are undefended! You might have defended them easily with 4 squads each by dividing units via transport planes.
A totally undefended city whith a population that doesn't bother who governs it can indeed be conquered by two men.

As the game also doesn't allow dropping two men with a ton of explosives every 10 miles on a railroad to destroy this railroad for days or even weeks, blocking enemy units in Strategic RR movement seem legitimate imo.

just my two cents.

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Post #: 432
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 1:30:01 PM   
Historiker


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Status: offline 		double posting...

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Post #: 433
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 1:30:37 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy
hmm, do you think bluebook has just put his bombers on ground attack without ordering a target and the AI chose that target to be attacked? I was amazed to see that strike and thought it would be a waste as I would keep the Betties on nav attack non stop but just setting them to ground attack without even setting a target would be even more amazing to me.


Quite possibly, I've seen this sort of thing happen when my heavies are set to commander decision.

I read in obvert's aar that it is possible to find units by having a unit on "ground attack" and simply clicking on the roads.

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Post #: 434
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 1:42:42 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker


quote:

ORIGINAL: EUBanana


quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy
hmm, do you think bluebook has just put his bombers on ground attack without ordering a target and the AI chose that target to be attacked? I was amazed to see that strike and thought it would be a waste as I would keep the Betties on nav attack non stop but just setting them to ground attack without even setting a target would be even more amazing to me.


Quite possibly, I've seen this sort of thing happen when my heavies are set to commander decision.

I read in obvert's aar that it is possible to find units by having a unit on "ground attack" and simply clicking on the roads.


Yes, it can be done manually. Just set the bomber to ground attack, then click in various hexes. If there is no unit in the hex you get the white hex border and stay in the choosing mode. Once you click on a hex that has troops you get the unit locking on and set to bomb. You don't now what is there, but it's something.

I use this in areas where it would be plausible. There is no area search on land for recon groups, which there should be I think. And mine are terrible at even spotting units in line with their destination, which would be hard to miss if you were looking out the window. There isn't much in the Aussie desert, so a big cloud of dust from the movement of troops and vehicles should be visible.

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Post #: 435
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 2:21:36 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

the enemy starts what I call para spam and this will go on for the next couple of turns... I've first watched him doing so and raised the issue as being ridicoulos as he used only a dozen paratroopers to take most of Australia's flags and dots, claiming towns with 40000 citizens with a para assault of 12-24 soldiers... after he took all bases, enabling his divisions at Port Augusta to rail warp around in Southern Australia he said he notices I feel strong about it and he wouldn't do it anymore... easy said after you have taken all objectives you wanted to take... of course the para spam completely screwed up all my strat movement having my divisions freezing in the middle of the rail connections...

As police personal, veterans with guns, hunters and civilians with guns don't join the fight in the game on both sides, those bases are undefended! You might have defended them easily with 4 squads each by dividing units via transport planes.
A totally undefended city whith a population that doesn't bother who governs it can indeed be conquered by two men.

As the game also doesn't allow dropping two men with a ton of explosives every 10 miles on a railroad to destroy this railroad for days or even weeks, blocking enemy units in Strategic RR movement seem legitimate imo.

just my two cents.



yeah I know there are always ppl who are on the pro and con side, no matter what issue. Going with your logic, you have two divisions in Munich and have ordered them to strat move to Dortmund which may roughly be 600km and the morning your divisions leave Munich the enemy drops 12 paras onto Lüdenscheid, which is just South of Dortmund and your divisions freeze on the railline 100km NW of Munich, 450km South of where the paras dropped. I am amazed that this sounds reasonable to you.

Let alone that something like that can be done in the game and never would have happened in real life. Do you think there was a good reason for using more than three dozen paras for Market Garden? I guess nobody told the German they have to freeze their reinforcements and they just kept moving in. It is just plain silly to do such a para spam and what you suppose to place three squads of an inf div anywhere doesn't change the silliness at all as the 3 squads everywhere are bombed to death in one round, two para squads fly in and change the flag of what you call empty city. If there would be just any sense of realism behind what you propose the Japanese would only have needed 10.000 paratroopers and a hundred Tinas to win the war in the Pacific.

A population that doesn't bother? Oh, I see, those 12 men then do what? Conquer a building? A street? The whole population that suddenly turns into Japanese labour? There is more than raising a flag in the middle of a town/city.

Neither is that realistic nor should it be done at all in the game, there is a good reason ppl often have a hundred houserules because the game lets you do stinking things en masse if you keep thinking it would be command & conquer.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/13/2012 2:26:06 PM >

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RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 2:30:37 PM   
Historiker


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Status: offline 		"Strohmannargumente"
As I said: It is impossible in the game to drop a few men with explosives every mile along the railroad destroying it. So the weak compromise is to disable the whole railroad by capturing one end.
IRL, he might have dropped a few paras along the railroad which is then blown up hundreds of times. This doesn't only stop the division where it is, it also effectively destroys the railroad and forces the other side to repair it, takeing time, ressources and special personal. All this can't be simulated in this game, so I think it is a fair compromise the way it is done right now - especially as you can repeat this move yourself at any time.

As I said: The game doesn't model any "levée en masse", nore local police that usually joins the fight, nore anything else. It only models real combat troops. When there are non, the city isn't defended. When the population doesn't join the fight on any side, it doesn't care about who governs it. When the public lacks the will to fight and no troops are present, then there's no minimum force needed to raise your flag.
When they don't care about who govern them, why shouldn't they go to work the next day if they are still paid?

I wonder why you don't simply do it yourself?

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/13/2012 2:31:19 PM >

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Post #: 437
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 2:54:06 PM   
castor troy


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From: Austria
Status: offline 		why I don't do it myselve? Because it is total BS to conquer a whole continent using a hundred paratroopers. The game doesn't model this, the game doesn't model that. The game also doesn't model that the base would turn Australian again after the 12 paratroopers would be bombed to death. Any explanation to this? That alone makes the para spam totally idiotic or do you think if the Allied would have dropped 50 paratroopers into the center of a German town it would have stayed British/American or wherever the paras came from after all paras would be dead? Yeah, the citizens wouldn't care and the Australian rail company workers would go to work and pick up four IJA divisions that landed at a base 600 miles West because two dozen paras took their town. Are we doing a serious discussion?

There will come the point where I will do all the idiotic things the game lets you do, after I have suffered from them due to my opponent digging them all out. Good example are the pickets. And what am I asked then? Please could you stop using them.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/13/2012 2:56:26 PM >

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Post #: 438
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 3:02:42 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

There will come the point where I will do all the idiotic things the game lets you do, after I have suffered from them due to my opponent digging them all out. Good example are the pickets. And what am I asked then? Please could you stop using them.


THAT is the point!
IMO, it is legitimite to use this tactics. BUT you mustn't complain if the other side uses them as well! If you do, you're not acceptable as an opponent in my eyes.

For the rest: That's what House Rules are made for.
If you agree to "all that's possible" is allowed, you're free to go. If you agree that "reasonable additions are to be made while the game is going", this "para-spam" surely would be one I'd accept to implement.

You should tell your opponent that every trick he uses will be used against him. It's as simple as that. In Indochina, Malaya, Burma, Java and Siam are a lot of places to block a railroad with 10 paras.
So he has asked for you do the same whereever possible.

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Post #: 439
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 3:12:55 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

There will come the point where I will do all the idiotic things the game lets you do, after I have suffered from them due to my opponent digging them all out. Good example are the pickets. And what am I asked then? Please could you stop using them.


THAT is the point!
IMO, it is legitimite to use this tactics. BUT you mustn't complain if the other side uses them as well! If you do, you're not acceptable as an opponent in my eyes.

For the rest: That's what House Rules are made for.
If you agree to "all that's possible" is allowed, you're free to go. If you agree that "reasonable additions are to be made while the game is going", this "para-spam" surely would be one I'd accept to implement.

You should tell your opponent that every trick he uses will be used against him. It's as simple as that. In Indochina, Malaya, Burma, Java and Siam are a lot of places to block a railroad with 10 paras.
So he has asked for you do the same whereever possible.



yeah, implementing a hr when the enemy has achieved all goals would be great of course. I was already told he wouldn't use the para spam anymore, after a rail connection between his troops at Port Augusta and Brisbane has been established.

I don't have to tell him that every trick will be used as he found it out on his own - picket ships - and the result was?

This stays pure and simple DUMB! You want to blow up railroads with paras and because commandos aren't modelled you think this is the way to do that? Wonder why my bombers can't destroy bridges or roads or railroads. It's like I have said, you can either have a houserule about literally everything or ppl try to be grown up, use their mind, remember what they have read about the war (most ppl here have read at least one book on it), remember that all those issues have been discussed to death already and then go with common sense. If this doesn't work, voila, you have a command & conquer style game when you do all those crazy and just because both sides do them, doesn't make it any better. Not even 2000 commandos could have taken 3/4 of Australia's populated areas.

I don't have to be acceptable as an opponent in your eyes and if you want to use every trick the game allows you to use then this is fine with me. And I don't try to find an excuse for every exploit but I do have the right to call on everyone using them. If calling doesn't help, all I can do is pay it back with the same silly thing, just to find out the enemy then complains about it, completely forgetting he came up with it.

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RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 3:22:47 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

I don't have to be acceptable as an opponent in your eyes and if you want to use every trick the game allows you to use then this is fine with me. And I don't try to find an excuse for every exploit but I do have the right to call on everyone using them. If calling doesn't help, all I can do is pay it back with the same silly thing, just to find out the enemy then complains about it, completely forgetting he came up with it.

I think you take it personally where it isn't intended.

I said nothing about you. I used "you" in the meaning of "(some)one".
I said, that if someone uses every possible trick, he has to accept that those tricks are used as well.
If we were to play, I'd either not accept the game with you regarding the HRs you propose, or I'd go with them. If you say "just common sense" and I do para-spam, I'd propably argue as above, but accept your point of view. I wouldn't risk my game because of that.

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Post #: 441
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 3:30:26 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

As I said: The game doesn't model any "levée en masse",


The game does not simulate/model anything .. it is a game... the problem comes I beleive when we somehow get a delusion that WitP AE somehow models anything close to reality. It is a game that the software provides a set of rules and referees FOW .. nothing more and nothing less ..

However, in the interest of a game that is decisions with consequinces and benifits, and/or play balance I think agreed home rules are great, But I think we get ourselves in trouble when we start thinking we can somehow home rule WitP AE into a simulation..

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Post #: 442
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 3:34:56 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

I don't have to be acceptable as an opponent in your eyes and if you want to use every trick the game allows you to use then this is fine with me. And I don't try to find an excuse for every exploit but I do have the right to call on everyone using them. If calling doesn't help, all I can do is pay it back with the same silly thing, just to find out the enemy then complains about it, completely forgetting he came up with it.

I think you take it personally where it isn't intended.

I said nothing about you. I used "you" in the meaning of "(some)one".
I said, that if someone uses every possible trick, he has to accept that those tricks are used as well.
If we were to play, I'd either not accept the game with you regarding the HRs you propose, or I'd go with them. If you say "just common sense" and I do para-spam, I'd propably argue as above, but accept your point of view. I wouldn't risk my game because of that.



no, neither did I take it personally, nor was my reply meant as offensive even if may sound so when I reread it. There are many things in the game that have been discussed to death and all it needs is what ppl most often suggest: if you think it MIGHT be gamey, don't do it. Of course if someone thinks it would never be anything gamey because the game allows to do it, well, then everything goes overboard.

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Post #: 443
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 3:37:51 PM   
Historiker


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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

quote:

I don't have to be acceptable as an opponent in your eyes and if you want to use every trick the game allows you to use then this is fine with me. And I don't try to find an excuse for every exploit but I do have the right to call on everyone using them. If calling doesn't help, all I can do is pay it back with the same silly thing, just to find out the enemy then complains about it, completely forgetting he came up with it.

I think you take it personally where it isn't intended.

I said nothing about you. I used "you" in the meaning of "(some)one".
I said, that if someone uses every possible trick, he has to accept that those tricks are used as well.
If we were to play, I'd either not accept the game with you regarding the HRs you propose, or I'd go with them. If you say "just common sense" and I do para-spam, I'd propably argue as above, but accept your point of view. I wouldn't risk my game because of that.



no, neither did I take it personally, nor was my reply meant as offensive even if may sound so when I reread it. There are many things in the game that have been discussed to death and all it needs is what ppl most often suggest: if you think it MIGHT be gamey, don't do it. Of course if someone thinks it would never be anything gamey because the game allows to do it, well, then everything goes overboard.

That's why you have to TALK before you start a game

I wouldn't mind playing Nemo, who propably uses everything just vaguely possible. But I'd know what I have to expect in that case. It is sad when hundres of hours playing time go down the sink just because the two players have different understandings of what should be allowed.

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Post #: 444
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 3:43:36 PM   
castor troy


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Status: offline 		absolutely. And to be honest, I thought my opponent would perfectly know what I think would go ok or not as he said he followed my AARs and he proposed a game when I was still playing my last opponent. Hence the reason for only a short set of hr not dealing with every possibility. But hr aside, even with a small set of hr I had great PBEMs going through the war, I may have been lucky to have opponents thinking the same as me.

IMO, bluebook just belittles himself using these things as he would have enough skill to forget about everything that is discussed on the forum as gamey or not (non base landings, pickets or mini paradrops to name the last three discussions). Not only is he belittling himself, in the end, his own tactics will be used against him, see the pickets.

As you name Nemo, I would never even think about playing him because he plays his games as if it would be a beta test. No matter if realistic or not, doesn't matter, all that matters is the max possible result achieved in the game. And this not only when it goes for tactics (like massing hundreds of flak guns in a jungle nest or massed night bomber attacks at 100ft, etc) but also due to discussable strategies that IMO would not be even discussed in real life. I guess he would give up most of India to hold a jungle base like Palembang because he knows that not getting Palembang would hurt the Japanese more than taking most of India would help them. In the game, wonderful perhaps, real life, not in my world. If someone wants to play it that way, I got absolutely no problem with it, it just wouldn't be my taste.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 4/13/2012 3:50:44 PM >

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RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 3:47:34 PM   
Historiker


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Status: offline 		Well, then let's hope he doesn't drop the game when the echo comes.

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Post #: 446
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 4:20:09 PM   
House Stark

 

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Status: offline 		Castor Troy, have you considered sending single AKls to the Philippines to resupply Clark Field? If they are in single-ship TFs they might not be detected, and since you've thrown concerns of gamey-ness out the window...

With his looses in Australia I imagine most of his fleet must be there, and perhaps some of your small cargo ships could get through. And if they fail, not a terrible loss. But great reward if you can keep him pinned at Clark.

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Post #: 447
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 4:24:44 PM   
crsutton


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Status: offline 		Yeah, the para spam thing is scraping the bottom of the cheese barrel in my opinion. I have to tell you that this game is like a bad marriage between to people who can't see eye to eye on a single thing, yet they keep the marriage together for far to many years for the "sake of the kids" or some other lame reason. I think you should politely terminate this one and find a more suitable opponent who agrees with your concepts (as I do) because I don't see this marriage lasting long...

I know it is a pain to find a new opponent and restart but a long campaign can be a two to three year real life commitment. Do you want to be arguing with this guy for two years?

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Post #: 448
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 4:30:31 PM   
obvert


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Status: offline 		It's all about clear communication of expectations. You have to work through differences. Assumptions don't help. It has to be clearly stated.

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Post #: 449
RE: Ending an IJ wet dream - bluebook (J) vs castor tro... - 4/13/2012 5:31:18 PM   
witpqs


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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

Yeah, the para spam thing is scraping the bottom of the cheese barrel in my opinion. I have to tell you that this game is like a bad marriage between to people who can't see eye to eye on a single thing, yet they keep the marriage together for far to many years for the "sake of the kids" or some other lame reason. I think you should politely terminate this one and find a more suitable opponent who agrees with your concepts (as I do) because I don't see this marriage lasting long...

I know it is a pain to find a new opponent and restart but a long campaign can be a two to three year real life commitment. Do you want to be arguing with this guy for two years?


This is just blowing my mind. He asks for bombing above a certain altitude (unrealistic demand) and then uses tiny para fragments (unrealistic action) after promising he would not do so any more (deliberately dishonest or forgetful???).

As far as the game engine not modeling blowing up a few rail lines, neither side can do it.

On the Recon thing, I know about the UI leak of trying to select hexes to see if there are ground units there. I never use it because it is a gamey exploit of a UI leak.
- There is another possibility, but of course I have no idea what he is actually doing. If you set a unit to recon and give it NO TARGET, AFAIK it goes out and recons on its own, including the countryside. In India the Allies get a bunch of British and Indian recon units with a dozen or so small planes each. I use some units to recon specific bases or troop formations I know about, but I also use others with no target so they can find anybody trying to sneak through the jungle or show up from an unexpected direction. Often they do find such enemy units (but apparently not always or not always in a timely manner). I do not know of the developers ever confirming this mechanism but it seems to work and is realistic for a recon unit ("Go recon the countryside and see if anybody is there.") because that is part of their job. As I said I have no idea what he is actually doing.

I have to pretty much echo crsutton: at this point just do what you think is right and if he quits he quits.

(in reply to crsutton)
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