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Mines No Longer Effective in 2.0?

 
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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Uncommon Valor - Campaign for the South Pacific >> Mines No Longer Effective in 2.0? Page: [1]
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Mines No Longer Effective in 2.0? - 11/22/2002 7:59:45 PM   
KevinRohrer

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Brunswick, Ohio USA
Status: offline 		I am the Jap player and sent two TFs of three subs each to Brisbane and Nomea on minelaying missions. The mines are there and US TFs have moved into both ports but haven't hit any mines. Each TF has at least ten ships in it and no minesweepers. What could be wrong?:confused:

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An armed society is a polite (and safe) society--Robert Heinlein via Col. Jeff Cooper
Post #: 1
- 11/22/2002 8:16:16 PM   
Ross Moorhouse


Posts: 2354
Joined: 1/5/2001
From: Sydney, Australia
Status: offline 		Dont know but i do know in the PBEM game I am in at present the Allies hit the mines I laid at Port Moresby. One of the MSW hit it and was reported as sunk.

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Ross Moorhouse

Project Manager
www.csosimtek.com
Email: rossm@csogroup.org

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Post #: 2
&^%$ mines - 11/22/2002 8:35:39 PM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, one of my CV hit a mine last turn. &^%$

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 3
///mine/// - 11/22/2002 9:13:29 PM   
SamRo

 

Posts: 94
Joined: 3/23/2002
From: UK
Status: offline 		I recon they are less frequent but they still happen, I have not had a mine damage a ship since applying version 2 & if anything I am using more mines!!! ;-) shore its just coincident, but just thought I would add my experience.

(in reply to KevinRohrer)
Post #: 4
- 11/22/2002 9:34:17 PM   
corbulo

 

Posts: 213
Joined: 2/28/2002
From: rigel 5
Status: offline 		I had a MSW go down recently as it was clearing a minefield after a destoyer was damaged going though it. Adding insult to injury. My experience is that offensive minefields are deadly, but defensive minefields(mines in a hex one owns) are useless in stopping anything, not worth the effort.

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virtute omne regatur

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Post #: 5
- 11/22/2002 10:46:57 PM   
bilbow


Posts: 741
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Concord NH
Status: offline 		From what I've seen, offensive mines with 2.0 are far more effective than before.

In one game my IJN opponent seeded Wampuko with a sub or two worth of mines. I've lost several ships so far including a DMS. And that's with all entries to the hex accompanied by sweepers. Time is early June 42.

In another game, I'm the IJN and have been seeding PM with sub mines. My opponent has lost 4 MSW ships so far and it's still May 42.

Both games are snenario 17.

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Post #: 6
I always laugh . . . - 11/23/2002 12:26:50 AM   
NorthStar

 

Posts: 219
Joined: 5/17/2002
From: New York, US
Status: offline 		. . . when this happens.

Right now over in the Bugs forum, there is a very hot thread of people complaining that mines are too effective!

(in reply to KevinRohrer)
Post #: 7
Re: I always laugh . . . - 11/23/2002 1:08:25 AM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

Please note that mines are spaced though out the entire hex, except in the case of a base, where they are placed in and around the harbor and shoreline. This means they will only attack task forces coming close to shore, such as transport invasion task forces, which the mines will attack at double normal strength.

Also, note that the message that a minesweeper has cleared a path through a minefield does not mean the hex is safe, as there may be a number of minefields in the hex.

And, in the next release version, the chances of a miesweeper hitting a mine have been significantly reduced.

Hope this helps...

Michael Wood
Lead Programmer,
Matrix Games

(in reply to KevinRohrer)
Post #: 8
Re: Re: I always laugh . . . - 11/23/2002 8:52:38 AM   
KevinRohrer

 

Posts: 15
Joined: 5/30/2002
From: Brunswick, Ohio USA
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Wood
[B]Hello...

Please note that mines are spaced though out the entire hex, except in the case of a base, where they are placed in and around the harbor and shoreline. This means they will only attack task forces coming close to shore, such as transport invasion task forces, which the mines will attack at double normal strength.
[/B][/QUOTE]
[P]
Mike,
[P]
1. Will ships hit mines if they are docked (i.e. loading/unloading).
[P]
2. Will they hit mines if their task force has been disbanded in that hex?

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An armed society is a polite (and safe) society--Robert Heinlein via Col. Jeff Cooper

(in reply to KevinRohrer)
Post #: 9
Re: Re: Re: I always laugh . . . - 11/23/2002 12:05:47 PM   
Mike Wood


Posts: 2095
Joined: 3/29/2000
From: Oakland, California
Status: offline 		Hello...

Mines at a base will usually only attack ships of the player who does not own the base (enemy ships). These cannot dock or disband.

Hope this Helps...

Michael Wood
_________________________________________________

[QUOTE]Originally posted by KevinRohrer
[B]
[P]
Mike,
[P]
1. Will ships hit mines if they are docked (i.e. loading/unloading).
[P]
2. Will they hit mines if their task force has been disbanded in that hex? [/B][/QUOTE]

(in reply to KevinRohrer)
Post #: 10
Thanks for great info Mike! - 11/23/2002 3:07:14 PM   
Apollo11


Posts: 24082
Joined: 6/7/2001
From: Zagreb, Croatia
Status: offline 		Hi all,

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mike Wood
[B]Hello...

Please note that mines are spaced though out the entire hex, except in the case of a base, where they are placed in and around the harbor and shoreline. This means they will only attack task forces coming close to shore, such as transport invasion task forces, which the mines will attack at double normal strength.

Also, note that the message that a minesweeper has cleared a path through a minefield does not mean the hex is safe, as there may be a number of minefields in the hex.

And, in the next release version, the chances of a miesweeper hitting a mine have been significantly reduced.

Hope this helps...

Michael Wood
Lead Programmer,
Matrix Games [/B][/QUOTE]

In other words you are saying that whenever there is base (or "dot") and
minefields that those minefields are only laid in vicinity of harbour and
shoreline?

Also, for other HEXes, you said that mines are spread out (spaced) through
entire area.


This is very interesting and helpful info...


Only now I understand why minefields had no (i.e. ZERO) impact on bombardment
TFs and submarines in HEXes where there is base (or "dot").

The bombardment TF would never come close enough to shore to hit anything and
the submarines would wait outside harbour (and therefore also be to far away
from minefield).

Thanks Mike!


Leo "Apollo11"

(in reply to KevinRohrer)
Post #: 11
- 11/23/2002 3:52:38 PM   
derwho

 

Posts: 236
Joined: 8/22/2002
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I got smaked really badly when playing #13 as Allies and trying to assault Shortland Islands early on in the game (playing v2.0). I had a invasion tf consisting of a few cruisers, five destroyers, approx 10 AK's and numerous LST's loaded with troops to assault Shortland. Got there fine, but lacking any minesweeping capacity I had 4-5 ships hitting mines every turn while unloading and shorebatterys wrecked havoc on my TF. I got Shortland but only 3DD's and 2AK's returned to Lunga the rest having met their end fighting.

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Post #: 12
- 11/24/2002 4:18:32 AM   
bobman5352

 

Posts: 10
Joined: 6/18/2002
Status: offline 		I have a related question? What is the reasoning behind reporting mine hits and mine sweeping to the enemy? As is, they function as mobile sensors on fleet movements (e.g., if I want to build a base at Nevea, I have to sweep the mines first, and my opponent knows something's up), which can be annoying.

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Post #: 13
Once apon a time - 11/24/2002 4:54:50 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, The reports were supposed to be "Allied" and "Japanese" but replay problems and people not understanding the reports were supposed to differ led to only one report. Now it is a choice of what to report (that both see) and what not to report (that no one see's) I preferred the 2 differing reports but the IJN could always "watch" the allied report. I think it is this reason that led to only one report. If the combatreport.txt could somehow be incorperated into the player turn it would make for better (different) reports. The combat.txt is a vital tool for playing and recording (AAR) games. But I do think there needs to be two points of view. This I'm sure is a nightmare request for the programmers but it most certainly needs to be considered for WITP

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 14
- 11/24/2002 6:00:00 AM   
Dunedain

 

Posts: 224
Joined: 4/4/2000
Status: offline 		I agree, Mogami. There needs to be two discreet reports that are encrypted for each
player as a part of the replay files. So that only the Japanese player can see his own mine
sweeping activity and jap ships that have hit mines, and only the U.S. player can see
his own such reports.

(in reply to KevinRohrer)
Post #: 15
What about the coastwatchers? - 11/24/2002 12:20:43 PM   
1089

 

Posts: 210
Joined: 7/4/2001
From: Portland, OR
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dunedain
[B]I agree, Mogami. There needs to be two discreet reports that are encrypted for each
player as a part of the replay files. So that only the Japanese player can see his own mine
sweeping activity and jap ships that have hit mines, and only the U.S. player can see
his own such reports. [/B][/QUOTE]


But wouldn't the coastwatchers report some of the Japanese ships that hit mines?

kp

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Post #: 16
Mines, your sleeping friend - 11/25/2002 7:06:56 AM   
herbieh

 

Posts: 804
Joined: 8/30/2002
From: Sydney Australia
Status: offline 		I love mines, and I cant wait to sow thousands in WIP with my B29s, I wish I could so them with my PBYs in UV, as they actually were doing in 1943, ( Kavieg was abandoned because of mines, not air attacks) but some of you out there probably would think that was dis honorable or sneaky.:D


Mines never tire, never sleep, and never discriminate

PS Beer is good

Skippy was OK too
Bomb New zealand into dust
Poms please send a proper cricket team
Aussies rule:D

(in reply to KevinRohrer)
Post #: 17
Re: What about the coastwatchers? - 11/25/2002 7:38:53 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by 1089
[B]


But wouldn't the coastwatchers report some of the Japanese ships that hit mines?

kp [/B][/QUOTE]


Hi, Sure, Sometimes.....but not always. And how a coast watcher could tell the IJN was sweeping mines at night (ok but not every night is a full moon, and it rains a lot too. I think Allied report on Japanese actions should be more detailed then Japanese report on Allied actions. But then again there are lapses.)

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 18
- 11/26/2002 4:10:52 AM   
dpstafford


Posts: 1910
Joined: 5/26/2002
From: Colbert Nation
Status: offline 		[QUOTE]Originally posted by bilbow
[B]From what I've seen, offensive mines with 2.0 are far more effective than before.

In one game my IJN opponent seeded Wampuko with a sub or two worth of mines. I've lost several ships so far including a DMS. And that's with all entries to the hex accompanied by sweepers. Time is early June 42.

In another game, I'm the IJN and have been seeding PM with sub mines. My opponent has lost 4 MSW ships so far and it's still May 42.[/B][/QUOTE]
Actually, I "seeded" Wampuko with surface MineLayer's. Right Under your nose, so to speak. Pretty nasty, eh?
My only comment on the effectiveness of mines is this: WHEN did Matrix make the change that minesweepers now prefer to clear mines MY RAMMING THEM?!? MineSweeper losses WHILE minesweeping is completely out-of-control..........!

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Post #: 19
Fixed - 11/26/2002 4:39:44 AM   
mogami


Posts: 12789
Joined: 8/23/2000
From: You can't get here from there
Status: offline 		Hi, Minesweeping is getting a tweak as well. I saw one of Arto's minesweepers (Wa-20 I think) it was clearing mines at Cairns

Wa-20 clears a path through mine
Wa-20 hits Mk-10 mine
Wa-20 widens path through mines
Wa-20 hits MK-10 mine
Wa-20 widens path through mines
Wa-20 hits MK-10 mine
" "
" "

Wa-20 sinks

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I'm not retreating, I'm attacking in a different direction!

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Post #: 20
mines - 11/27/2002 12:29:45 PM   
yamato

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 9/28/2002
Status: offline 		So far mines have been a waste of time in my game. I've hit way more than my enemy have, despite me knowing where they were and having clear hex paths around them ( although not the shortest path from A to B ). Definitely in need of some tweaking of the game system in my opinion. And how in the world do all those allied mine sweepers get in and out without detection?
I'm constantly replacing the same hex over and over again.

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Post #: 21
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