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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Steel Panthers World At War & Mega Campaigns >> SP:WaW Training Center >> Those invisible enemies in clear terrain...

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Those invisible enemies in clear terrain... - 11/17/2002 9:18:35 AM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline

can be viewed by adjusting the searching percentage in "Preferences". I jacked my sighting up to 200%, since I'm playing as the Germans in a long campaign and I simply wanted to give my frontkampferen all the better binoculars the Germans had anyway. Yeah, right. I'm sick to death of being fired on by enemies in clear terrain who stay invisible. NOW they aren't.

Post #: 1

- 11/17/2002 10:05:06 AM

Supervisor

Posts: 5166
Joined: 3/2/2004
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I guess I need to go back to work and modify their cloaking devices a little more so will out of sight again.;)

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Post #: 2

- 11/18/2002 3:17:29 AM

Wolfleader

Posts: 94
Joined: 10/31/2002
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It is somewhat accurate if you think about it since if your being fired at in real life you usually won't know right away where the shot is coming from, particularly if the person shooting isn't using tracer rounds. Also you'll be pretty busy trying to find cover to peek out and try to search for the shooter.

If your in an AFV then your visibility to the outside world if your buttoned is extremely restricted so the odds of you spotting the shooter is pretty limited as well.

Also, bear in mind that your opponent would most likely be wearing camoflauge clothing and hiding behind whatever shrubs, bushes or any other form of cover may be present.

I usually deal with hidden shooters by calling in alot of arty down the hex where I think the shot is coming from or call a flametank to burn them out of cover. My MG42 then just minces them as they flee.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 3

- 11/18/2002 5:02:34 PM

Ezikel

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: B'ham, England
Status: offline

Its ok for the most part, but it gets plain rediculous when the troops that are shooting at you are in the middle of sea of grass (with no variation in height, and no visible cover), or on a road with nothing on either side of it. Being able to hide on a road where there are buldings/forest/bushes/ditches to the side is fine, but when there isnt any, its daft to think that any unit isnt going to see 8-12 men standing in the middle of the road.

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OFFICIAL: Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one
is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even,
and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.
CROWD: Ooooooh!...

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Post #: 4

I really do not think so - 11/18/2002 7:25:30 PM

Gary Tatro

Posts: 1213
Joined: 2/1/2002
From: MA, US
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Infantry hiding in tall grass, cammoed and unmoving are very difficult to see. Just because the terrain says grass or clear does not mean that the infantry waiting in it did no spend a few turns digging fox holes or finding a nock or small ditch to hide in and wait for the enemy. The game simulates this by units finding cover.

Now what it sounds like to me is that you do not have good recon skills and are expecting your tanks to find hidden infantry units, that is just not going to happen. You need recon and a lot of it. Have it ahead of your forces screening. You will find that you do not need to adjust your preferences if you do this. What your basically doing now is saying the game is to hard so I will just cheat a little. Which is ok, but you have a tough time convincing me to PBEM with you. :)

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Post #: 5

Recon skills? - 11/18/2002 9:05:53 PM

KG Erwin

Posts: 8981
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From: Cross Lanes WV USA
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Yes, Gary, I'm very aware of the realistic recon techniques used in SPWaW, like an assault being preceded by a skirmish line of cheap Kubelwagens. ;) In any case, being able to see the bad guys a little better is just a preference, which is why we have those choices of settings, and I would prefer the combat rather than wandering blindly around the battlefield. I wouldn't do it for PBEM, though.

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Post #: 6

- 11/18/2002 10:42:38 PM

Ezikel

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: B'ham, England
Status: offline

Hmm, yes i know you need recon and you can have fox holes and tall grass, but your missing 'my' points.

Ive seen units move into the middle of a concrete/tarmac road and a tank (not supressed) is sitting on that road about 7 hexs away. They dont move, yet they disappear in their turn 'before' they fire from the very same spot they move too.

Also about grass, well yet i know grass can be long, but unless im mistaken hexes with tall grass are usually called 'tall grass' and yes even with recon squads, snipers they can still disappear.

Its not a huge problem and i dont expect anyone to loose sleep over it, but im just saying it does happen, not all the time, but every now and then.

One thing that im not certain about while we're here, when a ATG is in a bush or trees and it fires at a tank, you usually dont see it for quite some time. Even if you figure out where its shooting from you sometimes still cant see it. Before now if tried force fire (z) to get them surpressed of routed but i dont seem to be having much luck. Im not sure if its supposed to represent tankers taking wild shots, or that he doesnt know what hes shooting at. I hope someone can elaborate.

P.S Off topic, but... Just having some fun in a senario with 6 french B8's (?) which have just killed maybe two plt's on PzIII's, HT's and a plt of other tanks, while not loosing one of my own. One thing i learnt was move and shoot with some tanks, not one of them was in cover at any point, and the only one that got damaged was the one that stopped in one place the longest.

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- 11/18/2002 10:55:09 PM

Gary Tatro

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One thing that im not certain about while we're here, when a ATG is in a bush or trees and it fires at a tank, you usually dont see it for quite some time. Even if you figure out where its shooting from you sometimes still cant see it. Before now if tried force fire (z) to get them surpressed of routed but i dont seem to be having much luck. Im not sure if its supposed to represent tankers taking wild shots, or that he doesnt know what hes shooting at. I hope someone can elaborate.

I can give you a suggestion here. If you have a tank that can fire smoke ammo and you have located what hex the ATG is in, fire a smoke round right in front of it. Then move a halftrack with an infantry or recon up to the smoke hex and pop them out. They see the ATG and kill it.

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Post #: 8

- 11/18/2002 11:24:46 PM

challenge

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From: Austin, TX
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You might lose the HT as you move into the smoked hex, but you should be able to take it out with the Inf unit -- if there isn't a cloaked MG or Cossack with the AT gun. ;)

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Post #: 9

- 11/21/2002 7:59:26 AM

vahauser

Posts: 1644
Joined: 10/1/2002
From: Texas
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"Good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living..."

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Post #: 10

- 11/22/2002 2:00:29 AM

Capt. Pixel

Posts: 1219
Joined: 10/15/2001
From: Tucson, AZ
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by vahauser
[B]"Good against remotes is one thing. Good against the living..." [/B][/QUOTE]

LOL. :D :D

Okay, here's a thought:

During VCR playback, one can identify potential hiding places by carefully watching the messages popping up, counting hexes, carefully watching 'animation' clues, etc.

You can further confound your opponent by NOT shooting the same unit 3-4 times in a row; but skip from one unit/one shot, to the next up the line, or across the map. Then you go back and take another shot with that first unit. Rinse, Repeat.

So the VCR playback shows a unit being shot, then jumps to a different part of the battle map for a different shot, and then jumps again, and again, etc.

You get the point. If you don't focus on one fire exchange, your opponent is going to have a much more difficult time determining your 'hidden' locations. If you're very careful how you execute this, you can make a section of shermans appear like two platoons to your opponent.

If the 'Searching' option isn't to your taste, adjust it. I set a 200% searching value last night - Jeez! you could see EVERYTHING. If it moved, it was spotted. Where's the fun in that?

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Post #: 11

- 11/22/2002 2:13:58 AM

rbrunsman

Posts: 1837
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Phoenix, AZ
Status: offline

I think it should be made clear that repeated use of VCR replay is frowned upon in PBEM. You should get one viewing of it and that's it.

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Post #: 12

- 11/24/2002 12:29:12 AM

Frank W.

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline

>OFFICIAL: Stop! Stop, will you?! Stop that! Stop it! Now, look! No one
is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle! Do you understand?! Even,
and I want to make this absolutely clear, even if they do say 'Jehovah'.
CROWD: Ooooooh!...
[CROWD stones OFFICIAL]

cool.

a "life of brian" fan.

greetinx dude!

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 13

- 11/24/2002 4:18:47 AM

Ezikel

Posts: 52
Joined: 10/21/2002
From: B'ham, England
Status: offline

:-P

**** straight....

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Post #: 14

Invisable enemies - 11/29/2002 10:02:16 PM

robot

Posts: 1438
Joined: 5/9/2000
From: Covington Ky USA
Status: offline

I too have run into this sort of thing. Had 2 platoons of pz 38s and 1 platoon of pz IIs trying to make a flanking movement round the line. I was assaulted by an atr no more then 7 hexes away. In first shot he got 1 pzII. His third shot got a PZ 38 his sixth shot got another PZII. I still had not seen him on my turn. Moved towards his suspected hiding place on my turn. On his next turn he took out another PZII and A PZ38. Still did not see him after another of his 5 shots. Decided to move back to my troops and move in that way. I also used 81 motor fire and 1 barrage of 150s on this sucker. Also alot of direct fire too. This is too much for me. When my atr fire only 1 shot they get return fire.

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Post #: 15

- 11/30/2002 2:43:28 AM

Frank W.

Posts: 1958
Joined: 10/18/2001
From: Siegen + Essen / W. Germany
Status: offline

this is not very unlike.

if you have no inf. in view
to the hex from where the
ATR fires you will detect it
very late if at all.

tanks have bad spotting
capability esp. if bottomed.

snipers + ATR have size 0, too....
if a rough, building or wood hex
then it will almost impossible
to spot him...

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Post #: 16

- 12/1/2002 4:27:10 AM

Toontje

Posts: 345
Joined: 10/9/2002
From: The Netherlands
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range 7 ATR? Not AT? the not spotting part I'm not surprised, but the penetrating and killing part, I am.

'oridanary' AT is also small, so the previous explanation also goes for that.

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Post #: 17

Soldiers with camo? - 12/2/2002 8:27:56 PM

Charles2222

Posts: 3993
Joined: 3/12/2001
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I know when the SS came out with camo uniforms they were laughed at within Germany, which parts of the Wehrmacht later adopted as well. Given that, and how many non-camo'ed soldiers I see on film, German or otherwise, I think that thinking they were camo'ed in the sense of what they were wearing, is applying a modern standard to that era. Sure, men are always hiding where there's places to hide, but at least for the whole length of the war, to believe they were camo'ed is pushing it.

(in reply to KG Erwin)

Post #: 18

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