The use for starbases

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The use for starbases - 1/9/2012 12:00:51 PM

Szkeptik

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Joined: 5/27/2010
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Hi!

I want to make a base in deep space in the middle of a big empty rift to serve as a frontline between me and my enemy. I want it to serve as a refueling/repairing/resupplying point for fleets.
The base isn't close to a star so energy collectors are useless.

So can I make civilian ships bring resources and fuel to such a base so it can keep running?

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/9/2012 1:04:54 PM

Nedrear

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If you do not build it too far off the grid some ships should resupply it, yes.

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/9/2012 1:33:32 PM

Szkeptik

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Thanks!

The refueling part seems okay, but there is no option for ships to repair at the base. Their repair menu only has the option of "repair at nearest shipyard" even though I right clicked on the base. It has both construction yards and cargo bays, though they are empty. I was hoping freighters would start delivering resources when there was demand for it, but it looks like since it's not considered a "space port" the game doesn't treat it like a possible repair/build site.

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/9/2012 11:50:40 PM

ehsumrell1

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From: The Briar Patch Nebula
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Hello Szkeptik.
Make certain that you have enough 'manufacturing' plants in your Starbase design. If I
remember correctly, you should have 3 manufacturing units (1 of each type-Weapons, Energy
& High Tech)for each construction yard in your design.

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/10/2012 9:18:16 AM

sbach2o

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

Hello Szkeptik.
Make certain that you have enough 'manufacturing' plants in your Starbase design. If I
remember correctly, you should have 3 manufacturing units (1 of each type-Weapons, Energy
& High Tech)for each construction yard in your design.

Where have you got this from?

It isn't true, btw. The 'official' ratio of yards to plants is two to one (from the standard starbase designs, at least before game version 1.7.0.6), and that is still massive overkill. You could consider putting more than one (of each type) on your space port or star base design if you have lots of shipyard facilities. One manufacturing plant per four shipyards may be an okay compromise between flavour and utility. My experiences with the High Speed Shipyards wonder show that the plants can supply far more yards, though.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Nedrear

If you do not build it too far off the grid some ships should resupply it, yes.

Like in 'It could happen', and '...eventually'. I do not know what governs it, but be prepared for any shipments of building materials and fuel taking a very, very long time. This has happened with captured pirate bases for me. If ever I am not careful with where I let a ship of mine retrofit, and it ends up doing so at a former pirate base, I can as well just scrap it, it takes so long. I do not know whether a starbase would work the same (err, fail to work is more like it), but I am assuming it would.

So regarding pirate bases: scrap as soon as convenient, usually right away. And I'd think thrice before outfitting a base in deep space with shipyard facilities. No, it's a no brainer: don't do it.

< Message edited by sbach2o -- 1/10/2012 9:19:54 AM >

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/10/2012 10:57:14 PM

ehsumrell1

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From: The Briar Patch Nebula
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sbach2o

quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

Hello Szkeptik.
Make certain that you have enough 'manufacturing' plants in your Starbase design. If I
remember correctly, you should have 3 manufacturing units (1 of each type-Weapons, Energy
& High Tech)for each construction yard in your design.

Where have you got this from?

It isn't true, btw. The 'official' ratio of yards to plants is two to one (from the standard starbase designs, at least before game version 1.7.0.6), and that is still massive overkill. You could consider putting more than one (of each type) on your space port or star base design if you have lots of shipyard facilities. One manufacturing plant per four shipyards may be an okay compromise between flavour and utility. My experiences with the High Speed Shipyards wonder show that the plants can supply far more yards, though.

That is information that is in the Galactopedia under Construction for one thing Sbach2o. Also,
the logic is three (1 of each type)because there are three areas involved in the building of any craft or base,
Weapons, Energy & High Tech. You can build with less but you won't get the max building speed.
I also know this because I've been a beta tester since the onset of the Return of the Shakturi
expansion and had to test all this (not trying to be sarcastic).

< Message edited by ehsumrell1 -- 1/10/2012 11:00:11 PM >

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/11/2012 7:57:36 AM

feelotraveller

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Anybody have any idea what the 30000 speed for starting tech level manufacturing plants actually means?

I did some (limited) testing on Legends after sbach2o made comments in another thread and my results suggested that, at starting tech level, each manufacturer can support at least 12 construction yards.

(Plus the colony itself... this may or may not be connected.) There were some notable differences between the manufacture types but the real equation seems to be between the number of components each manufacturer can produce and the number which can be added to the builds in a the construction yard in an arbitrary time period (actually six days seems to be used for accounting...). Designs can use components which are predominantly from one manufacturer or another.

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/11/2012 12:46:16 PM

feelotraveller

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Thinking about this more and I wonder whether somehow a decimal point got misplaced in the code somewhere?

The manufacturing plants seem an order of magnitude too powerful. If they were a tenth of what they are currently then one plant (of each type) would definitely serve 3 construction yards, and 4 except in unusual limit cases. (Assuming you don't have the Bakuras shipyards present.) As it is without Bakuras having 36+ construction yards served by one manufacturer of each type makes a mockery of the standards designs including more than one yard.

OK... I'll shut up now...

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/30/2012 2:07:21 PM

TheJian

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I was just looking at the AI SB and it has 2 of each manufacturing plant, but has 6 construction yards so I'm not getting what ehsumrell1 is talking about, what I'm I not getting?

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/30/2012 2:51:06 PM

Jeeves

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From: Arlington TN U.S.A
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A very recent change increased the number of yards for auto designed spaceports by 50 percent... Apparently once you have an extra manufacturing plant, Elliot did not think you needed even more for just a couple more yards 4->6.

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RE: The use for starbases - 1/30/2012 9:35:00 PM

TheJian

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One more thing please, how many SB do you, or should one put in a system?

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RE: The use for starbases - 4/18/2012 4:43:04 AM

merkaba954

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Hmm so with this info I am reading I only need 1 of each plant for up to 6 yards? So basically 2 of each plant would support up to about 12 yards?

Just eondering as I may restart again to help streamline my operations as I can cut my amount of plants in half on my custom stations saving resources dramatically as well as the time it takes to construct them. That will be very helpfull as it will also allow me to drop a jab mod and life support on them as well.

I am trying to figire out an optimal setup for a starbase. I want at least 6 yards on them. I don't want to exploit any possible bug that is currently there either so I want to have them set up as if the bug didn't exist in plant to yard ratio. I basically want the starbases to have good defense able to refuel a good amount at a time and hold a lot of cargo for building ships. I want it to be used for edge of my empire outpostsas well as occasionally at a valuable resource non colony planets. Was thinking of maybe doint this with some of my gas mines as well.

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RE: The use for starbases - 4/18/2012 7:03:59 AM

feelotraveller

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(Disclaimer: I haven't played with the last couple of patches, but there was nothing regarding any changes in this regard in the patch notes.)

That said, you can support in excess of 30 yards with one of each type of plant and 40 except in some unusual limit cases.�

The exact calculation involves the relative speed of component production by plants and installation by yards.� You will understand the calculation if you figure out what the manufacturing plant speed number stands for.

Edit: you also need to know how the rate of component addition in yards is calculated, but this is easier to figure out.

< Message edited by feelotraveller -- 4/18/2012 7:07:54 AM >

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RE: The use for starbases - 4/22/2012 1:25:24 AM

Abraxis

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According to the Galacticopedia thing ehsumrell1 is right in that you need one plant of each type per yard. I noticed far fewer in the base Teekan designs, but I always put that down to standard Teekan design.... excellence.

Lately I started playing the Ikkuro again, supposed master engineers. Their base port designs are 2 plants of each type for 6 yards.

So I have no idea what's going on there...

As for star bases, I've tried and tried and tried in almost every game I play to make viable 'Happy Teekan Rest Stop"'s (meant to sorta be like a deep space 9 kinda place) in deep space, gas clouds, or the odd gas giant between system clusters, or on the edge of them (galaxy map 'clusters'). Private traders only seem interested in trading with colony ports and bases that actually produce something though. Even if you manage to find a caslon gas cloud between two clusters with high trade between them, freighters still just seem to pass them by.

I have tried building them between me and another civ whom I have free trade with, but with whom our closest colonies are too far for freighter fuel reserves. That didn't seem to work. I've also tried building them close to asshole civs no one likes but me, even with me being their only trading partner, other civs private economies don't really understand the principle that they could sorta skirt the law by trading with my station to indirectly supply the embargoed one.

If you allow military refueling (and they're producing fuel), they'll get used by AI fleets at wartime, but I havn't noticed any extra income from this, I think they get it for free.

Interestingly enough though, I had built a Happy Teekan Rest Stop in my last game on the edge of a large cluster on a caslon (87%) gas giant. The Teekans (whom I had free trade, mineing and fuel rights with) went to war with the Shandar. The position of my rest stop put it at a potentially threatening control point for attacks against Shandar core space. I was very surprised to see the Teekan's seemed to understand this. They kept a large fleet parked outside it at all times, and frequently used it to refuel their other fleets.

It really is a shame though, it would be really nice if the private economy were able to treat star bases as star ports when it comes to trading, rather than viewing them as nothing but production sources.

< Message edited by Abraxis -- 4/22/2012 1:37:23 AM >

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RE: The use for starbases - 4/23/2012 7:12:48 PM

Jerkface

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Yes, building gas stations and giving military refueling to your allies is a good way to support your AI friends during war time.

I also tend to build large long range scanner equipped bases in sectors that are mostly gas clouds, to keep an eye on pirates. Ill put one or two construction yards there for repairs or retiring ships.

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RE: The use for starbases - 4/28/2012 4:01:29 PM

Kadrush

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My small spaceports go for 1 of each manufact plant and 4 yards. That is very cost saving for small spaceports and work nice for private ship construction.

My military starbases, built on orbit of my main planets, go for 15 yards and 5 plants of each. It is usefull to build starbases for military yards as you dont have to share the build space with the private sector.

On deep space I tend to build a sensor network for early warning purposes. Pretty simple stations with long range scanners and enough weapons to defend against pirates.

I dont see the use for deep space starbases, and the will not stockpile caslon or hydrogen for refuel purposes and neither raw materials for repair purposes.

For refuel I prefer refuel ships and construction ships for repair purposes.

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RE: The use for starbases - 7/24/2012 2:16:04 PM

Bleek

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I'm wondering if I'm using starbases wrong then.

I typically strip them construction items and add pure defence and offence, and then build them on the perimeter, in my space, of a enemy or aggressive nation.

Is that a waste of my time?

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RE: The use for starbases - 8/15/2012 3:13:44 PM

Lex Talionias

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should this be put in the bugs section? if space stations are along trade routes then they should see trade traffic, especially if the have e-con modules installed.

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