Help with Scenerio Modification

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All Forums >> [Current Games From Matrix.] >> [World War II] >> Norm Koger's The Operational Art Of War III >> TOAW III Support >> Help with Scenerio Modification

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Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/20/2012 7:56:10 PM

Major Shane

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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I need help understand how to operate the scenerio editor. I have enjoyed playing the classic scenerio, Overlord '44 for years. I've been trying to tinker with it to make it more historically accurate and I've never operated the scenerio editor before. I have learned how to change the start from am to pm of June 5th. What I need help with is understanding how to make an icon appear on the map at the beginning of a turn. Specifically, I want to modify the naval bombardment forces. The icons are all on the map at the beginning of Turn 1, anchored and prepared to fire. This isn't correct. They got underway on the 5th and arrived overnight and were in position to fire by sunrise on the 6th. I want to modifiy the scenerio so the icons are not present on 5 Jun, but "appear" at their position at the beginning of the AM 6 Jun Turn. How do I do that?

Post #: 1

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/20/2012 8:39:52 PM

Telumar

Posts: 2236
Joined: 1/3/2006
From: niflheim
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: m_shane_perkins

I need help understand how to operate the scenerio editor. I have enjoyed playing the classic scenerio, Overlord '44 for years. I've been trying to tinker with it to make it more historically accurate and I've never operated the scenerio editor before. I have learned how to change the start from am to pm of June 5th. What I need help with is understanding how to make an icon appear on the map at the beginning of a turn. Specifically, I want to modify the naval bombardment forces. The icons are all on the map at the beginning of Turn 1, anchored and prepared to fire. This isn't correct. They got underway on the 5th and arrived overnight and were in position to fire by sunrise on the 6th. I want to modifiy the scenerio so the icons are not present on 5 Jun, but "appear" at their position at the beginning of the AM 6 Jun Turn. How do I do that?

There is a mini editor tutorial in the game manual. Have you read this?

But, if it's only for the navy: In the editor select Edit -> Deployment. Then, on the right bar, click through the text box (under the small unit view window in the upper right corner) until it displays 'Remove Unit' (I think it's only one click). Select a naval unit you want to remove with left click. Now a right click removes the unit from the map. Repeat until you're done.
Then go to the formation view. This is the same symbol as in game - the star. It's under the small unit view window in the right corner. You will see all the formation's units with arrival hexes and arrival turn in columns. Maybe you will first need to cycle to the right formation with the next/previous formation buttons (same as in game). I think this is self explanatory now..: Change the arrival turn by clicking in that box and entering it manually.
If you want to change the entry hex, you can do this manually too, though this might be a bit cumbersome. Alternatively you could click the text box you clicked in the first step until it displays 'Place Unit'. Then cycle/navigate to the first undeployed unit in the according formation with the next unit button (as in game) or by selecting it in the formation display window (as in game). Right click deploys the unit on the map. Remove the units again and change the entry turn.

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RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/21/2012 2:55:24 AM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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I've also tinkered with the Overlord '44 scenario. Lots of fun, a great scenario. I had always assumed that the designer started it on the 5th in order to give the player a turn to use the naval and air assets to soften up the targets. I don't know if that is true or not.

Some of the unit arrival schedules are a little off also You can check Wiki for info on most of them.

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Post #: 3

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/21/2012 3:27:33 AM

Major Shane

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Joined: 7/19/2007
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Telumar, thanks a million. That did exactly what I was looking to do. Thanks again.

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RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/21/2012 3:34:49 AM

Major Shane

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I understand what you mean about using the 5th for softening targets, which would be accurate, on a limited basis, for air attacks. Of course the original plan called for a landing on the 5th which meant the airborne troops would have been departing England on PM/4 Jun (Game Time). It would have been interesting if the designer could have introduced a event and/or theater option that represents Ike's go/no go decision regarding the bad weather that occurred on the 5th.

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Post #: 5

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/22/2012 9:17:15 AM

sPzAbt653

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Interesting Theater Option. Would that be based on a weather change, or on a command decision to proceed in spite of the weather ?

Ike gave the decision to 'go' at 9:45 p.m on the 4th, for the 6th. Any later than that and they couldn't have done it on the 5th. (So the decison was weather based for the 5th or 6th). Some naval units from farther areas had already departed in anticipation of the pre-planned 'go' date of the 5th. These were turned back.

The Overlord 44 Scenario Briefing states the start turn as 'June 5 (PM). The Turn 1 Scenario News states - 'AM, June 5th, 2145 hrs, Ike gives the ok'. So that is kind of confusing.

I'm interested in your Theater Option and wonder what thoughts you have on all this, because I'm working on a D-Day scenario. I'm using one day turns, so that changes things a little. Currently, I'm using June 5th as the start, but only for Naval and Air units to attack targets, while the 'embarked' land assault units can only move 'closer'. Airborne can't land until the 6th. German units can't move until their half of the 6th.

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RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/23/2012 2:53:52 PM

Major Shane

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I think you can do a couple of things with theater options that, if possible, could be tied to weather for US or Hitler for Germans. I don't fully understand the limitations or capablities of the game design, but here's what I'm thinking. Start the game on 3 Jun with a weather event (randomly generated) that gives the weather forecast for PM 4 Jun/AM 5 Jun. Associate a level of risk to mission and risk to force (Very High, High, Medium, Low) with the weather event. Then have a theather option of go or no go. The window for the landings were the 5th, 6th, and 7th. You could repeat the same, changing the event variable to be more likely to equal a go on the 6th, and very likely for the 7th (in order to force a game start). The key is to enable some type of strategic decision balance. I propose a 5% chance of favorable weather for landing on the 5th. But you could still choose to land then, risking your force and subsequently your mission. You could represent that by introducing a variable that (if possible within the game) by grounding troop carriers and shipping for a 24-48 period to represent the loss of transporation the Allies expected, as well as keeping the assault troops in a disrupted status. On the other hand, if the weather was acceptable on the 5th, and the player choose not to go, you could introduce a variable of lowered morale or proficiency penalty to reprsent their pent-up fustration of not going. On the German side, I think a couple triggers that give you the option of "asking Hitler" for earlier reinforcements should be an option. The randomly generated answer is yes to the release of reinforcements sooner (15th Army Panzers for example) or the order to defend in place and not surrender an inch. This would make the German player really consider the risk reward of asking for help. If you played the option early, and were sucessful, you may have enough combat power to prevent the Allies from achieving their objectives before the scenerio ends.

Hope that all makes sense.

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RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/26/2012 5:01:47 AM

sPzAbt653

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From: east coast, usa
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It makes sense, and I don't disagree with any of it, but for what I'm working on I won't make changes to the weather/start date. Only because it gets too complicated in my head with all the 'what ifs'.

The German reaction is easier for me to figure out. Rommel wanted control of everything so that he could throw the Allies back into the sea wherever they arrived (and thank pete he didn't get his way). But OKW had its reasons to fear a follow up landing.

So for the one I'm working on, all the German units are available to respond. But ... the Allies have landing areas in Brittany, closer to Cherbourg, at Normandy and in the Pas de Calais. So if the German player throws everything at the initial invasion (wherever it is) then he risks being unable to respond to a second landing somewhere else. By way of compensation, the Allies have control over the divisions that are available in England, so they can be deployed wherever they want (depending on available shipping and supply capacity).

Well, that's the plan, we'll see if playtesting reveals this all to be a wonderful mess. I figured we have enough scenarios that portray the actual campaign, so I would like to see an interesting what-if.

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RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/26/2012 3:08:29 PM

Major Shane

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How will you change the Allied shipping resources for the alternate landing locations? Landing closer to Cherbourg on the Channel side was probably not a significant stretch/shipping distance. But once you round the tip Cotentin to land on the far side or on the Brittany coast, you have much longer turns for shipping to shuttle from Engaland. Do you only allow (even by a house rule) transporation of units every other day to represent the challenge? The US 28th INF Div was Ike's reserve and was the only Division recently trained to make the amphibious assault (Bradley replaced it with the 1st Division when he took command). For a quick historical background look at Breakout & Pursuit, Blumenson, pages 185-187, part of the Offical US Army in WWII history, and available online.

I like what you're working on. Let us know how your playtesting goes.

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Post #: 9

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/26/2012 5:00:09 PM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
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From: east coast, usa
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quote:

How will you change the Allied shipping resources for the alternate landing locations?

I could use a series of Theater Options, but initially I'm going with a simpler routine. Each landing area has different supply capacities, and each division landed lowers that supply level. For example, Normandy has a supply capacity of 50, and after you land the initial force and immediate follow up units (12 divisions) you are down to a supply level of 20. Adding more units will continue to lower the supply level, so you need to capture ports to get more capacity. Brittany has a lower supply capacity, so less divisions can be supported. If a player overloads any lodgement area, he ends up with 0 supply.

quote:

The US 28th INF Div was Ike's reserve and was the only Division recently trained to make the amphibious assault.

So far I've only mentioned the 28th in the briefing, as far as 'If you choose to make a secondary landing, keep in mind that SHAEF had a limit of 4 divisions for the initial lift, and the US 28th Inf was the only other unit that was trained in seaborne assault'. I haven't noodled thru the strains on the system of supporting two lodgement areas, but it shouldn't be difficult to come to an arrangement.

quote:

Let us know how your playtesting goes.

Its taking longer than I thought to get set up. Finding info on all the German coast batteries from St. Nazaire to Amsterdam is tedious and boring, but has to be done. The initial version will be pbem only, and then we can do a German PO so that the Allied player can do it solo, then an Allied PO so that the German player can do it solo.

I've had a hard drive failure and lost a lot of stuff, including my e-mail accounts. If any of my regular contacts see this, please send me an e-mail when you get a chance so that I can recoup your addresses. Thanks !

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Post #: 10

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/26/2012 6:01:43 PM

Major Shane

Posts: 195
Joined: 7/19/2007
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quote:

ORIGINAL: sPzAbt653

quote:

How will you change the Allied shipping resources for the alternate landing locations?

quote:

I could use a series of Theater Options, but initially I'm going with a simpler routine. Each landing area has different supply capacities, and each division landed lowers that supply level. For example, Normandy has a supply capacity of 50, and after you land the initial force and immediate follow up units (12 divisions) you are down to a supply level of 20. Adding more units will continue to lower the supply level, so you need to capture ports to get more capacity. Brittany has a lower supply capacity, so less divisions can be supported. If a player overloads any lodgement area, he ends up with 0 supply.

Your supply concept is very interesting. I wasn't aware that was possible.

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Post #: 11

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/26/2012 7:32:12 PM

sPzAbt653

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The US 4th Inf Div is ready to go, but the follow up formations are in Garrison Mode. They are released by Theater Option, but releasing them lowers the Overall Force Supply Level. Release too many and supply starts sucking, capture ports and supply improves. It looks like fun !

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Post #: 12

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/28/2012 3:02:44 PM

Major Shane

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It looks like you've really expanded the map for your scenario. How, or are, you planning to deal with the 1st/29th, 4th/90th task organizations for the assault landings at Omaha and Utah?

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Post #: 13

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/29/2012 1:46:17 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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quote:

... the 1st/29th, 4th/90th task organizations ...

Not dealt with yet. The idea in the back of my mind is to overstuff the initial assault regiments to represent these units (and the 2nd and 5th Rangers). Then after initial assaults and casualties, the assault units would end up at their normal combat values, and the other units would be represented by their parent units that arrive later (except for the Rangers, because I don't really know their history and don't know if they should be represented after the initial assault phase).

I haven't found any info on the coast batteries on the Channel Islands, if anybody knows, please help !

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Post #: 14

RE: Help with Scenerio Modification - 4/29/2012 2:08:40 AM

sPzAbt653

Posts: 9511
Joined: 5/3/2007
From: east coast, usa
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quote:

It looks like you've really expanded the map for your scenario.

Rick (TPOO) made the excellent map for us. I think we plan on doing a couple scenarios with it. 'Siegfried Line' is mostly done (starts 9-44) but hasn't been played beyond about the first 50 turns. 'D-Day to the Elbe' is this one.

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