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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

 
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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/15/2012 3:17:36 AM   
Mike Solli


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We try Zulu, we really try.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/15/2012 3:40:32 AM   
Cribtop


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Bwahahahahahahahahahahhaha!!!!!

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

Edit: Crap, Mike beat me to it AND we skip a page. Now I just look like a looney. Sigh.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 4/15/2012 3:42:01 AM >


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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/15/2012 2:16:10 PM   
Mike Solli


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I think Cribtop just proved zuluhour's point.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/15/2012 3:03:05 PM   
Mike Solli


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Still no turn from Ted. Can't figure out what's going on. He pops in here every now and then but doesn't answer emails or PMs. Hope everything's ok.

Anyway, today's thoughts are on carrier air breakdown. KBs air groups are still at their original composition. I'll discuss it in a bit. Off to church.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/15/2012 3:47:51 PM   
BigBadWolf


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SCLS?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/19/2012 10:33:42 PM   
Mike Solli


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Well, Ted resurfaced. He's been out of town and is coming back tonight. Hopefully, he's run the turn tonight but we'll have to see. Anyway, it's back on!

Edit: What's SCLS?

< Message edited by Mike Solli -- 4/19/2012 10:35:11 PM >


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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/19/2012 10:55:32 PM   
Mike Solli


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A little something to read while waiting for the next turn....


Today I’m looking at my carrier air composition. As I said earlier, most of my carriers are still at their starting composition. Actually, only my CVLs and CVE have reconfigured. Here’s the plan for KB:

Ship – Max Torpedoes – Max aircraft – Fighters – Dive Bombers – Torpedo Bombers
Akagi – 45 – 81 – 36 – 24 – 21
Kaga – 45 – 72 – 30 – 21 – 21
Soryu – 36 – 63 – 27 – 18 – 18
Ryujo – 27 – 48 – 30 – 0 – 18
Shokaku – 45 – 72 – 30 – 21 – 21
Zuikaku – 45 – 72 – 30 – 21 – 21

And MKB:

Shoho – 18 – 30 – 21 – 0 – 9
Zuiho – 18 – 30 – 21 – 0 – 9
Hosho – 6 – 20 – 14 – 0 – 6
Taiyo – 0 – 27 – 9 – 18 – 0

And the following for MKB as they arrive:

Junyo – 18 – 53 – 21 – 15 – 18
Hiyo – 18 – 53 – 21 – 15 – 18

Some notes:
The Taiyo has not yet received it air complement. The fighter chutai will come from 24 Air Flotilla and the DBs will be the rebuilt Hiryu DB daitai so it’ll be awhile.

I decided to base the TB complement primarily based on the torpedo complement. In the case of KB, I gave the TBs two shots with torpedoes (with the exception of Ryujo). For MKB, most will have 1 shot with TBs. I don’t expect MKB to hang around in any one spot too long because it is so fragile. I’ve found that if I hang around in any spot with my carriers too long, bad things happen.

I typically keep my fighters on 60% CAP and my TBs on 10% naval search. That gives the following:

CAP: 110
Escort: 73
DB: 105
TB: 108
NavS: 12

And for MBK (right now):

CAP: 34
Escort: 22
TB: 22
NavS: 2

As you can see, MKB isn’t much right now. About all they can do is hit a TF that isn’t protected by air.

Now a few comments about allocation of pilots…..

This discussion is of the experience level of pilots. The stats for frontline units will (hopefully) be at or near 70.

I break down my pilots into 4 different experience levels:

81+
70-80
50-69
<50

IJN

81+: These are the elite pilots. The majority of them will end up in TRACOM. My goal is to have one per training unit. In addition, I will have 1-2 per frontline fighter unit. I am eventually going to pull out all of them from the bomber units though. I’m not sure it’s worth having them in the bomber units. If anyone disagrees, I’d love to hear your reasoning.

70-80: These guys are currently in both the carrier and land based units. As 50+ experience pilots graduate from training, I’m going to pull out these guys from the land based units and reserve them only for carrier units. I’ll keep roughly 1/3 of the land based units filled with these guys and the rest with 50-69 experience guys. The 70-80 experience guys will erode over time as losses occur so I’ll be curious to see if I can keep this goal. At any rate, I want to avoid putting 50 experience guys in the carrier units as long as possible. We’ll see how this works out.

50-69: These will fill the land based units as described above.

<50: These will be in the on board training units.

IJA

81+: I will keep 1 per training fighter daitai (not chutai) and 1 per front line fighter unit. The rest go to TRACOM.

70-80: I’d like to keep 1/3 of each frontline unit with these guys and try to keep a reserve to replace losses. We’ll see how long it’s possible.

50-69: These guys will fill the remainder of the front line units.

<50: These will be in the on board training units.


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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/19/2012 10:55:56 PM   
Cribtop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I think Cribtop just proved zuluhour's point.





PS -SCLS is "Sudden Carrier Loss Syndrome" - a dread mental condition that results in many conceded games.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/19/2012 10:57:26 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop


quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

I think Cribtop just proved zuluhour's point.





PS -SCLS is "Sudden Carrier Loss Syndrome" - a dread mental condition that results in many conceded games.


Aha! I had a bit of a taste of that recently. I ain't quittin' though.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/19/2012 11:00:35 PM   
Empire101


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Well, Ted resurfaced. He's been out of town and is coming back tonight. Hopefully, he's run the turn tonight but we'll have to see. Anyway, it's back on!




At last!!


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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/21/2012 1:20:51 AM   
Teikoku Kaigun

 

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Can you tell a bit about your deployment of auxiliary ships between different fleets?
And what conversions are you doing?

Im doing my OOB to get ready for my first PBEM and now pondering these.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/21/2012 10:52:23 PM   
Mike Solli


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TK, lots of conversions happened. I'll get to them shortly. First, the turn replay...

24 Feb 42

Sub War

An Aussie AM hit the Ro-68 off Pt. Moresby with a DC. Fortunately, the damage isn't too bad at 22-15(5)-0-0. She's headed to Rabaul where the AR stationed there will be able to completely repair her.

I also saw that the Pike was sunk near Rabaul from a DC hit. That didn't happen today but a couple of days ago but only showed up today. If she did sink, it took a couple of days. I'll take it. That's only the 3rd Allied sub sunk so far, along with an S class and Dutch sub.

5 Fleet

Interesting things happened here. If you recall, I diverted 2x Naval Guards to invade Umnak Island and Dutch Harbor. They both landed today. At Umnak, the enemy defenses included the 201 (Sep) Inf Reg, a base force and an EAB. That Naval Guard has no hope of taking the base and will pull out tomorrow. At Dutch Harbor however, there is only a base force and the 2/250 CD. I'm going for a DA. I'd love to kill those units. I am also going to see if I can send a larger force to take Umnak. I'll take a look at that when I receive the turn, which should be later this evening.

4 Fleet

The 3x Naval Guards that arrived earlier are about ready to land at their destinations.

SE Fleet

Ted refuses to provide CAP over Pt. Moresby. That tells me I need to start bombing that base with my Lilys that are there. Three Betties, unescorted, went after the AM that hit the Ro-68 and was ambushed by 7x P-40Es, losing two of their number. Not nice.

China

Interesting proceedings today. I attacked Loyang in a DA. If you recall, there are 20 isolated Chinese units there. Well, my forces there did their job getting 2:1 odds with no enemy forts. The Chinese surrendered losing 61256(4317) to 7972(27) Japanese casualties. Banzai! The infrastructure in Loyang was devastated at Manpower 1(1), Resources 0(40) and LI 0(20). No matter. I destroyed a total of 8x Chinese Corps, 1x Chinese Cavalry Corps, 2x construction regiments, 2x base forces, 5 Group Armies and 2 War Areas. They'll come back but it'll take a long time to rebuild them.

Now there remains 5 units in the dot hex just north of Loyang and 10 more units in 3 hexes to the south in clear and wooded areas.

Burma

The only conflict here was 11x P-40Es vs. 2x Oscars over Magwe. Both Oscars were shot down (and both pilots lost) for no Allied loss.

Malaya

I tried a SA against Singapore today. It did a number on the Allies. The 2:1 attack reduced the forts from 2 to 0. Banzai!!! Losses were 3099(168) Allies to 7576(32) Japanese. Our losses were very low but the disruption and fatigue are in the 70s for all 5 divisions. A few days rest and they'll go in again.

SRA

Kolaka was liberated today. The resources there are intact at 40(0).

I'm continuing to spread out in Java. The end is near.

The Yamada det provided LRCAP over Ambon to support a Nell daitai that was doing a port attack there. Some Allied ships were in port there. The Zeros caught 3x B-339Ds and shot down two. The Nells caught the AVP Arend in port and sank her.

Other Stuff

Reinforcements:

10 Garrison Unit - 14 Army - headed to Manila
11 Garrison Unit - 14 Army - headed to Kendari

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/21/2012 11:54:01 PM   
Cribtop


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It seems that the choice in China for the Allies is to abandon Chengchow and Loyang or defend them and lose an army. It has happened in numerous AARs now and, were I to play Allies, I'd run for the woods on Day 1. Still, a hearty BANZAI to you, Mike.

Also, what are your plans, if any, beyond the usual perimeter?


< Message edited by Cribtop -- 4/21/2012 11:56:15 PM >


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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 8:44:34 AM   
ny59giants


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In China, I would continue to push in the north and see how far beyond Sian you can get. There is a small, but significant amount of oil to be found there. Denying him the oil, but more importantly the fuel to keep his Heavy Industry and the supply it produces at Chungking is an important objective. It doesn't hurt that the oil/fuel would benefit you long term.

Logistics, Logistics, Logistics....

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 10:35:10 AM   
PaxMondo


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

It seems that the choice in China for the Allies is to abandon Chengchow and Loyang or defend them and lose an army.

Just like Ichang for IJ is a setup as well. Allies can take it in the first few turns and almost impossible not to lose it.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 10:48:05 AM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Interesting proceedings today. I attacked Loyang in a DA. If you recall, there are 20 isolated Chinese units there. Well, my forces there did their job getting 2:1 odds with no enemy forts. The Chinese surrendered losing 61256(4317) to 7972(27) Japanese casualties. Banzai! The infrastructure in Loyang was devastated at Manpower 1(1), Resources 0(40) and LI 0(20). No matter. I destroyed a total of 8x Chinese Corps, 1x Chinese Cavalry Corps, 2x construction regiments, 2x base forces, 5 Group Armies and 2 War Areas. They'll come back but it'll take a long time to rebuild them.


In another thread I learned that only the infantry corps come back. So the HQs, construction and base force units will not re-spawn. So that's a lot of extras you just knocked off for good there! Banzai.

I concur that a push up north, to Sian and beyond, can cripple Chinese industry. Go ASAP so the forts can't be built too high.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 12:06:08 PM   
Mike Solli


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I agree with you guys. The army that just took Loyang is headed for the remaining 5 Chinese units in that dot hex to the north. Then that army heads for Sian. Further north, the Mongolian Army has surrounded and is in the process of destroying the last known Chinese unit there. Then they will head west along the road toward a base with more oil (can't remember the name). Once I take those two bases, my offensive missions in the north are pretty much complete.

After that is done, I'll look to the south. I'm pushing W and SW out of Shanghai to clear the Chinese out slowly. Not doing much in the center other than destroying the 10 units surrounded there.

Once all that is complete, I'll begin to clear out the rail line to complete the road net between FIC and Fusan.

To be honest, I hate China, and so does Ted. I want to hurt him enough so that I can do the occasional offensive to surround and possibly kill a few units here and there to keep him in the hole troops wise. That'll postpone the inevitable counteroffensive to late enough in the war so it won't matter.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 12:08:06 PM   
Mike Solli


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Ichang, yeah. Ted took it early after I abandon it. I'll take it back - maybe. Gotta see if it is necessary to my goals. I suspect it is. I have no interest in going after Chunking.

Off to play soldier. Talk to you guys tonight.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 1:16:48 PM   
ny59giants


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North China:
Sian: Oil - 20 & Refinery - 20
Lanchow: Oil - 90 & Refinery - 90 (This is the big prize)
Urumchi: Oil - 50 & Refinery - 20 (I lost this in my last game as Allies to roving Tank Rgt)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 2:04:02 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Reinforcements:

10 Garrison Unit - 14 Army - headed to Manila
11 Garrison Unit - 14 Army - headed to Kendari


The plethora of Garrison Units that you will receive over the next few months are quite useful. Just a heads up about withdrawal dates on them. You may want to push those that you will 'lose anyways' furthest forward or even use them in an offensive manner before they're taken from you.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 4:36:31 PM   
Cribtop


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quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

In another thread I learned that only the infantry corps come back. So the HQs, construction and base force units will not re-spawn. So that's a lot of extras you just knocked off for good there! Banzai.



Wow, I didn't know that!

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 6:12:54 PM   
ny59giants


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I had everything come back for the Chinese in my last game as Allies. But, everything is at 1/3 strength.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/22/2012 8:21:54 PM   
obvert


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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I had everything come back for the Chinese in my last game as Allies. But, everything is at 1/3 strength.


This is what I'd always thought, but since I haven't played the Allies in a year, I can't remember exactly what happened to my Chinese units. In some AAR that I can no longer find, someone quoted the below area of the manual. It only mentions infantry units, but of course the manual is not clear or comprehensive on many subjects.

PS - It was the Chinese Zombie thread in the War Room.




Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 4/22/2012 8:31:36 PM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/23/2012 4:23:01 AM   
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What is the general consensus on China as far as eating whole units up and having them return, or just pushing them back-hopefully very well damaged.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/23/2012 4:30:21 AM   
Cribtop


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I'd say it depends. The best result is a 1 AV LCU pushed into the woods and left to rot. However, sometimes there is value to destroying units that occupy key terrain or are serially blocking roads and rails behind the lines.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/23/2012 12:46:26 PM   
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

What is the general consensus on China as far as eating whole units up and having them return, or just pushing them back-hopefully very well damaged.


I'll take 'em as I can get 'em. Destroyed utterly seems to yield more VPs, but permits the annoying zombification to which you refer. My goal in China is to destroy more infantry than he can produce as replacement squads. Over time, this should work to my advantage.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/23/2012 4:15:23 PM   
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I play as a commander in the field would have during that time. Kill 'em. No commander would refuse an opportunity to eliminate enemy forces or cause mass surrender by encirclement. They didn't have to worry about respawning, so I don't worry about the 1/3 respawn either. It's a game mechansim that I have no control over and it represents an awful lot of mouths to feed at a time when supply could be critically low in China. If the Chinese perimeter shrinks too much, I see no way these zombie troops can be fed.

I do think respawning units should have the lowest experience levels allowable though, they may be 1/3 strength, but it should be rabble and not even remotely trained up. The Allies shouldn't be rewarded for playing Chinese units carelessly or relying on the fact they respawn. Losing them must entail some kind of penalty, not a reward in my opinion.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/23/2012 4:29:06 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

I play as a commander in the field would have during that time. Kill 'em. No commander would refuse an opportunity to eliminate enemy forces or cause mass surrender by encirclement. They didn't have to worry about respawning, so I don't worry about the 1/3 respawn either. It's a game mechansim that I have no control over and it represents an awful lot of mouths to feed at a time when supply could be critically low in China. If the Chinese perimeter shrinks too much, I see no way these zombie troops can be fed.

I do think respawning units should have the lowest experience levels allowable though, they may be 1/3 strength, but it should be rabble and not even remotely trained up. The Allies shouldn't be rewarded for playing Chinese units carelessly or relying on the fact they respawn. Losing them must entail some kind of penalty, not a reward in my opinion.


Agree wholeheartedly...

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/23/2012 10:22:32 PM   
Mike Solli


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Hanzberger

What is the general consensus on China as far as eating whole units up and having them return, or just pushing them back-hopefully very well damaged.


I'll take 'em as I can get 'em. Destroyed utterly seems to yield more VPs, but permits the annoying zombification to which you refer. My goal in China is to destroy more infantry than he can produce as replacement squads. Over time, this should work to my advantage.


I agree with CB. I'll kill whatever I can get. I'm sure my opponent is in a pretty severe infantry deficit right now. I intend to keep it that way.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 4/23/2012 10:24:01 PM   
Mike Solli


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25 Feb 42

Sub War

The S-39 put a torpedo into the PB America Maru (fitting name, huh?) and down she went.

5 Fleet

The Naval Guard at Umnak Island got pulled out of there and I’m sending them to reinforce Dutch Harbor. I tried another DA at Dutch Harbor and got 1:2 odds (Fort level 1). Losses were 56(0) Japanese to 21(0) Americans. We’ll see what the second Naval Guard does….

Two xAKs were sunk by CD fire at Dutch Harbor. Unfortunately, I don’t have anything to counter it. That’s the problem you run into when you do spur of the moment invasions. I did mention earlier that it was a risky proposition.

4 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

SE Fleet

Another air fur ball over Pt. Moresby. This time, 27 Zeros met 10 P-40Es. Eight of the P-40s were shot down for no Japanese losses. Banzai!

Ted had mentioned that he has half a dozen squadrons each of bombers and fighters to throw into the fray. He has admitted that his war of attrition isn’t working as planned. My fighter strength doesn’t seem to be diminishing. Heh, heh…..

China

Maneuvering continues.

Burma

Two Oscars met 17x P-40Es over Meiktila, shooting down 1x P-40 for no Japanese loss.

I forgot to mention that yesterday, Meiktila spontaneously changed allegiance from Brit to Japanese. All of the infrastructure is intact so now I have an additional 300 oil factories pumping out oil. I shut off the 100 refineries as well as the 200 refineries in Rangoon. The oil (~35-40k) is pooling at Meiktila and Rangoon. Hopefully, it’ll start to flow south soon.

I have some AA at Meiktila and some AS enroute. I’ll station fighters there as soon as I can.

The 22 Air Flotilla HQ, some AA and some engineers, along with a pile of supply, arrived at Pt. Blair. I’ll move some Betties there soon to begin more long range naval search and NavT capability.

Malaya

The 5x divisions at Singapore are recovering, but it’ll be a couple more days before they are ready to try again.

Java

Tjilatjap was liberated in a DA today. The 14:1 odds attack resulted in 70(0) Japanese casualties and 1354(120) Dutch losses including the destruction of the 5 CD battalion and 12x L-212 transports. I also captured 48k supplies and 24k fuel.

I’m postponing a tentative attack on Soerabaja until the 16 Army HQ moves to within 1 hex of Soerabaja. Just a day or two…..

SRA

Yesterday, I landed an SNLF at Bengkalis. I took it in a DA today, driving off the enemy with 34(3) losses to no Japanese losses. I captured the oil intact at 40(0). That SNLF will stay there as a garrison for a while and another SNLF is being picked up to invade farther north.

_____________________________


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