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RE: When? - 4/6/2012 11:15:19 PM

paulderynck

Posts: 8201
Joined: 3/24/2007
From: Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: yvesp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
A very good assessment - I'm impressed. That's me banging out the bugs.

Well, that was not too difficult given that my job is quite similar to yours!
Main difference is that I'm beeing paid every month, whereas I guess you're more or less waiting for the release of the game. My place is certainly more confortable than yours on that side. However, you likely have a freedom that I don't enjoy.

If I had free time, I would even have volunteered to help you, but hey, I've little time of my own (about 3h commuting every day), and I'm not much into delphi (used it once though, 10 or 15 years ago or so) ; I'm more on the java/scala J2EE development side. That's not exactly game building!

Yves

My commute is measured in seconds, less than 10. During dinner my wife and I watch (from the 19th floor) the traffic back up on H1 for miles - sometimes in both directions.

It's a very nice view you have there in any event.

_____________________________

Paul

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2671

RE: When? - 4/9/2012 7:14:06 PM

WIF_Killzone

Posts: 277
Joined: 4/30/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: yvesp

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets
A very good assessment - I'm impressed. That's me banging out the bugs.

Well, that was not too difficult given that my job is quite similar to yours!
Main difference is that I'm beeing paid every month, whereas I guess you're more or less waiting for the release of the game. My place is certainly more confortable than yours on that side. However, you likely have a freedom that I don't enjoy.

If I had free time, I would even have volunteered to help you, but hey, I've little time of my own (about 3h commuting every day), and I'm not much into delphi (used it once though, 10 or 15 years ago or so) ; I'm more on the java/scala J2EE development side. That's not exactly game building!

Yves

My commute is measured in seconds, less than 10. During dinner my wife and I watch (from the 19th floor) the traffic back up on H1 for miles - sometimes in both directions.

My commute is measured in kilometers, (1640 if I was to drive), 3 hours by plane one way, plus airport security time and getting to the airport, so about 6 hours one way, performed twice a week = 12 / 5 days = 2.4 hours per day so I guess, I'm in the middle. :)

Would the graph could show the projected months (the x-axis), the # bugs (the y-axis) with two lines showing # of bugs reported, and # of bugs fixed. Surely the two lines will intersect at some point in the future i.e. the projected release date.

If you must seperate the bugs by priority (citical, high, medium, low) I wouldnt be adverse to looking at that graph too

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2672

RE: When? - 4/9/2012 7:32:46 PM

WIF_Killzone

Posts: 277
Joined: 4/30/2009
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I have a question, would it be possible to list the release criteria (the criteria that must be met to release the product) and then report upon that criteria in your monthly status reports?

If you havn't decided upon the release criteria, could you let us know that as well? I'm sure the forum members would be willing to give one or two opinions on it

(in reply to WIF_Killzone)

Post #: 2673

RE: When? - 4/9/2012 7:48:32 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: WIF_Killzone

I have a question, would it be possible to list the release criteria (the criteria that must be met to release the product) and then report upon that criteria in your monthly status reports?

If you havn't decided upon the release criteria, could you let us know that as well? I'm sure the forum members would be willing to give one or two opinions on it

I have admonitions from on high to not discuss specifics in detail.

Right now we're working hard on ironing out the remaining bugs and getting ready for full-blown testing of NetPlay. There are a dozen new beta testers on board and I want them to learn enough about the game to be able to test NetPlay once I place it into their hands. My goal is to have 2-3 people work together on NetPlay testing, so its gets a "real world" test rather than having one person with two computers side by side running the tests (which is how I do it).

As of yesterday I finished up with the Seeking Opponent database. It accepts "original request" posts and replies to the original requests. The originator can specify optional rules individually (On/Off). I have the delete function working so once the originator finds an opponent, he can delete his original post.

I still need to add an automatic deletion function if the post has been sitting idle without a reply for 1 month. Since I can't test that feature until a month has passed I can delay writing the code for a few weeks.

With my next release to the beta testers, they should be able to see if that new code is bug-free or not.

I'm currently coding the TCP/IP connections for players to send messages to each other through the Matrix NetPlay Message Server for World in Flames. Once I get that functional, I'll clone the code for the Matrix NetPlay Game Server. They use almost identical procedures, with the former for simple text messages and the latter for game events (e.g., move the 6-4 from this hex to that hex).

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to WIF_Killzone)

Post #: 2674

RE: When? - 4/9/2012 8:09:48 PM

WIF_Killzone

Posts: 277
Joined: 4/30/2009
Status: offline

Thank you, that informs..

Keep up the good work.

Craig

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2675

RE: When? - 4/12/2012 9:40:37 PM

bfontes

Posts: 9
Joined: 8/2/2004
From: Cranston, RI
Status: offline

Has it been announced that there will be no AI at release or are people making assumptions? How is it possible? Wow, talk about guaranteeing failure...

Is there any precedent for a PC wargame being released and succeeeding with no single player mode?

< Message edited by bfontes -- 4/12/2012 9:44:09 PM >

_____________________________

Games:
Steel Panthers: World at War - General's Edition
The Operational Art of War III

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2676

RE: When? - 4/14/2012 12:41:20 AM

Ubercat

Posts: 100
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Near Allentown, PA
Status: offline

It's a good thing that many of us don't share your attitude and assumptions.

_____________________________

"I�m not convinced that faith can move mountains, but I�ve seen what it can do to skyscrapers." -William H. Gascoyne

(in reply to bfontes)

Post #: 2677

RE: When? - 4/14/2012 8:32:44 AM

undercovergeek

Posts: 1526
Joined: 11/21/2006
From: UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: bfontes

Is there any precedent for a PC wargame being released and succeeeding with no single player mode?

world of warcraft?

(in reply to bfontes)

Post #: 2678

RE: When? - 4/16/2012 5:16:12 PM

Edfactor

Posts: 106
Joined: 6/13/2008
From: Dallas
Status: offline

WoW is not a wargame
Wow does have single player mode quests all over the place, as well as PvP

I quite that addiction, now your making me think of it again.

(in reply to undercovergeek)

Post #: 2679

RE: When? - 4/17/2012 12:16:53 AM

gridley

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/2/2006
From: Caledon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Ubercat

It's a good thing that many of us don't share your attitude and assumptions.

Actually, he shares the attitude and assumptions of both the founder of Matrix games and the developer of Matrix World in Flames as per this post after the release in 2009 was not met.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

... This was motivated by a conversation with David Heath about how important the AI Opponent will be.
... I now agree with Dave: the AIO is crucial for sales.

However, now we get a post like this in response to whether or not an AI will be part of the initial release;

quote:

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

We'll provide more information on that as we get closer to release. There's a lot that we still need to do to inform you all about what the release plans are and future plans after the release.

There is no question that the game will have an AI, but the AI will require extra work and our goal it so make sure the AI is competent and can provide a good challenge to new players. In the long run, this game is much better played against human opponents, which is why we are focusing on the multiplayer system first.

Regards,

- Erik

It is clear that there will be no AI in the initial release. Forgive me if I am not as confident as I have been for the last 7 years or so on the success of MWiF. Hopefully, when Erik releases thier plans my fears will be alleviated...this type of release schedule still just doesn't make sense to me.

(in reply to Ubercat)

Post #: 2680

RE: When? - 4/18/2012 8:45:15 PM

mavraamides

Posts: 447
Joined: 4/1/2005
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: bfontes

Has it been announced that there will be no AI at release or are people making assumptions? How is it possible? Wow, talk about guaranteeing failure...

Is there any precedent for a PC wargame being released and succeeeding with no single player mode?

Not sure if we can classify it as a success but War in Europe: Computer Edition was released sans AI and I'm pretty sure there are no plans for ever adding one.

(in reply to bfontes)

Post #: 2681

RE: When? - 4/18/2012 11:00:13 PM

Edfactor

Posts: 106
Joined: 6/13/2008
From: Dallas
Status: offline

I dont think that game could be called a success.

(in reply to mavraamides)

Post #: 2682

RE: When? - 4/18/2012 11:51:47 PM

ThufirHawat

Posts: 2
Joined: 4/18/2012
Status: offline

Greetings.

I've been lurking these forums for about 5 years and finally decided to register.

I will not comment on the likelihood of an AI at launch or not. I would like to see an AI, myself, but many factors have to be considered and I trust Steve and Matrix to make the right decision for the game.

I would like to ask about some of the particulars regarding multiplayer though. It is my understanding that PBEM will only support a binary (Axis player vs. Allied player) configuration. Is this still the case? Would it be possible to add specific country/player support in the future? In other words, if I have 5 friends that want to PBEM, can we assign one person to Germany, another person to Italy, one to USSR, etc in the future?

How about the NetPlay? Does that support multiple players playing separate nations?

A computer version of this game would make it so much more enjoyable in some ways. Having the computer referee and keep the rules would be incredible. Keep up the good work.

(in reply to Edfactor)

Post #: 2683

RE: When? - 4/19/2012 3:38:38 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ThufirHawat

Greetings.

I've been lurking these forums for about 5 years and finally decided to register.

I will not comment on the likelihood of an AI at launch or not. I would like to see an AI, myself, but many factors have to be considered and I trust Steve and Matrix to make the right decision for the game.

I would like to ask about some of the particulars regarding multiplayer though. It is my understanding that PBEM will only support a binary (Axis player vs. Allied player) configuration. Is this still the case? Would it be possible to add specific country/player support in the future? In other words, if I have 5 friends that want to PBEM, can we assign one person to Germany, another person to Italy, one to USSR, etc in the future?

How about the NetPlay? Does that support multiple players playing separate nations?

A computer version of this game would make it so much more enjoyable in some ways. Having the computer referee and keep the rules would be incredible. Keep up the good work.

Welcome to the forum.

[I always wonder if the lurkers end up with grass stains on their clothes, lurking by the side of the road. I guess at least they don't get run over by the traffic.

]

---

I have trouble envisioning how PBEM would work with more than 2 players. Say you had two players on each side. Then to complete even the simplest of phases would require both players on that side to send emails to the other 3 players. There are possible difficulties with the moves by the two players being impossible in combination (e.g., both Nationalist and Communist Chinese units trying to move to the same hex).

It just seems like it would take too much time. Anyway, to start I want to get the 2 player version working. Then we can see about increasing the complexity by adding more players.

---

The same process is true for NetPlay: first get the 2 player version functioning cleanly and then move on to coding NetPlay for 3-6 players.

I intend (but then I have a lot of good intentions

) to enable players to switch between PBEM and NetPlay. The concept is to let players start a game as PBEM and then switch to NetPlay at any time they desire. For instance, that might occur if there were several intense air-to-air combats to be fought. Adding the ability to switch between PBEM and NetPlay with 4 players in the game strikes me as a daunting task at the moment. Not impossible, but certainly non-trivial.

EDIT: I now have restoring NetPlay games working. This is a boon for testing NetPlay through all the phases. Having to start each debug session at setup was moderately insane.

< Message edited by Shannon V. OKeets -- 4/19/2012 3:42:18 AM >

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to ThufirHawat)

Post #: 2684

RE: When? - 4/19/2012 3:34:02 PM

Edfactor

Posts: 106
Joined: 6/13/2008
From: Dallas
Status: offline

If you want to do more then 2 players, woun't it be possible to just do it by doing part of your turn, saving and emailing it to your partner then he does the same and when you have both finished you email it to the other side?

For instance
Ger/Japan

Germany does movement then emails to Japan who does his movement and emails it back to Germany
Then Germany flies air mission and emails the save to Japan who flies air missions then emails it to the allies
the allies fly interceptions and ground support, and email back to Germany

etc.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2685

RE: When? - 4/19/2012 6:49:20 PM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edfactor

If you want to do more then 2 players, woun't it be possible to just do it by doing part of your turn, saving and emailing it to your partner then he does the same and when you have both finished you email it to the other side?

For instance
Ger/Japan

Germany does movement then emails to Japan who does his movement and emails it back to Germany
Then Germany flies air mission and emails the save to Japan who flies air missions then emails it to the allies
the allies fly interceptions and ground support, and email back to Germany

etc.

Yes, that would work. There would be additional delays of course.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to Edfactor)

Post #: 2686

RE: When? - 4/20/2012 12:12:42 AM

gridley

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/2/2006
From: Caledon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

---

The same process is true for NetPlay: first get the 2 player version functioning cleanly and then move on to coding NetPlay for 3-6 players.

Will the coding for 3-6 players be a big undertaking for future releases or do you think it will be in the initial release?

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2687

RE: When? - 4/20/2012 12:46:32 AM

TemujinOz

Posts: 23
Joined: 3/21/2010
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quote:

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

quote:

ORIGINAL: bfontes

Has it been announced that there will be no AI at release or are people making assumptions? How is it possible? Wow, talk about guaranteeing failure...

Is there any precedent for a PC wargame being released and succeeeding with no single player mode?

Not sure if we can classify it as a success but War in Europe: Computer Edition was released sans AI and I'm pretty sure there are no plans for ever adding one.

As the developer for WiE, I can offer this perspective - the objective for that project was to deliver a program capable of supporting the existing customer base for the boardgame. Multiplayer was the key focus and AI was never considered crucial.

I'd consider the project a success because we met the targets we aimed for. It was never going to be a 'commercial hit' and a failure to achieve that status was no surprise. Perhaps the next version though :)

(in reply to mavraamides)

Post #: 2688

RE: When? - 4/20/2012 1:54:49 AM

Shannon V. OKeets

Posts: 22095
Joined: 5/19/2005
From: Honolulu, Hawaii
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gridley

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

---

The same process is true for NetPlay: first get the 2 player version functioning cleanly and then move on to coding NetPlay for 3-6 players.

Will the coding for 3-6 players be a big undertaking for future releases or do you think it will be in the initial release?

It's difficult to see what is on the other side of the hill until you have first climbed the hill.

_____________________________

Steve

Perfection is an elusive goal.

(in reply to gridley)

Post #: 2689

RE: When? - 4/20/2012 3:18:25 PM

gridley

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/2/2006
From: Caledon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: gridley

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

---

The same process is true for NetPlay: first get the 2 player version functioning cleanly and then move on to coding NetPlay for 3-6 players.

Will the coding for 3-6 players be a big undertaking for future releases or do you think it will be in the initial release?

It's difficult to see what is on the other side of the hill until you have first climbed the hill.

Here's hoping it is a small hill. This game is not meant to be played by only 2 players. It would be a shame for first time players of WiF to have to play it that way.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2690

RE: When? - 4/20/2012 3:45:45 PM

USSLockwood

Posts: 543
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemujinOz

quote:

ORIGINAL: GordianKnot

quote:

ORIGINAL: bfontes

Has it been announced that there will be no AI at release or are people making assumptions? How is it possible? Wow, talk about guaranteeing failure...

Is there any precedent for a PC wargame being released and succeeeding with no single player mode?

Not sure if we can classify it as a success but War in Europe: Computer Edition was released sans AI and I'm pretty sure there are no plans for ever adding one.

As the developer for WiE, I can offer this perspective - the objective for that project was to deliver a program capable of supporting the existing customer base for the boardgame. Multiplayer was the key focus and AI was never considered crucial.

I'd consider the project a success because we met the targets we aimed for. It was never going to be a 'commercial hit' and a failure to achieve that status was no surprise. Perhaps the next version though :)

I've been tempted to buy WiE several times, but can't pull the trigger...no AI.

_____________________________

Dave
San Diego
Home of the World's Busiest Radar Approach Control

(in reply to TemujinOz)

Post #: 2691

RE: When? - 4/20/2012 8:05:35 PM

mavraamides

Posts: 447
Joined: 4/1/2005
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TemujinOz

As the developer for WiE, I can offer this perspective - the objective for that project was to deliver a program capable of supporting the existing customer base for the boardgame. Multiplayer was the key focus and AI was never considered crucial.

I'd consider the project a success because we met the targets we aimed for. It was never going to be a 'commercial hit' and a failure to achieve that status was no surprise. Perhaps the next version though :)

I know of at least one person that absolutely loves your game. That's how I heard about it.

(in reply to TemujinOz)

Post #: 2692

RE: When? - 4/20/2012 9:17:41 PM

ThufirHawat

Posts: 2
Joined: 4/18/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gridley

Here's hoping it is a small hill. This game is not meant to be played by only 2 players. It would be a shame for first time players of WiF to have to play it that way.

I couldn't agree more. This concern is precisely why I registered and asked about it. This game really shines, in my opinion, when there are 4+ people playing. If I'm being honest, I don't think having 2 player only multiplayer support would be reason enough to merit a purchase.

(in reply to gridley)

Post #: 2693

RE: When? - 4/21/2012 11:30:58 AM

TemujinOz

Posts: 23
Joined: 3/21/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor

I've been tempted to buy WiE several times, but can't pull the trigger...no AI.

I can't offer an AI ... but I'll throw in a set of steak knives!

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Post #: 2694

RE: When? - 4/21/2012 5:28:52 PM

USSLockwood

Posts: 543
Joined: 8/16/2002
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TemujinOz

quote:

ORIGINAL: doktor

I've been tempted to buy WiE several times, but can't pull the trigger...no AI.

I can't offer an AI ... but I'll throw in a set of steak knives!

Hmmm, tempting...

_____________________________

Dave
San Diego
Home of the World's Busiest Radar Approach Control

(in reply to TemujinOz)

Post #: 2695

RE: When? - 4/23/2012 8:07:25 AM

Evildan

Posts: 15
Joined: 4/14/2009
From: USA
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shannon V. OKeets

quote:

ORIGINAL: Edfactor

If you want to do more then 2 players, woun't it be possible to just do it by doing part of your turn, saving and emailing it to your partner then he does the same and when you have both finished you email it to the other side?

For instance
Ger/Japan

Germany does movement then emails to Japan who does his movement and emails it back to Germany
Then Germany flies air mission and emails the save to Japan who flies air missions then emails it to the allies
the allies fly interceptions and ground support, and email back to Germany

etc.

Yes, that would work. There would be additional delays of course.

We play multi-player PBEM all the time. Having the extra players adds much flavor, like the FTF games. When we do it, we adjust the sequence of the phases by necessity. For example Germany does it's land moves, attacks and rebases, and then Japan does it's naval moves, land moves and rebases, etc. Often you send conditional instructions for responses during the opposite sides impulse. Basic necessities to keep the game moving. Now, thinking forward to Netplay with the game rules rigidly structured, you can't have easily this necessary freedom that only human players can have.

Therefore, If my group of buddies were to start playing this version with full Multi-PBEM turned on I would assume that, after the initial euphoria, we would shortly realize the human "flexi-rules" version of PBEM that we have adopted will be better. And we will soon stop using the MWIF for multi-PBEM. We might use it for 1 v 1... but that's hard to say at this point. What I gather it Will be used for is 1 v Computer, and thus will require an AI. But for sure, 3+ PBEM play has to be the least usage in the long run?

So, short conclusion is if AI is ready for publish along with 1 vs 1 play, then it would probably be not worth the time extension to wait for full Network multi-player PBEM support. Especially since we all know the accelleration that occurs between release and patches #1-10

I'm with Shannon on this one.

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2696

RE: When? - 4/23/2012 5:47:37 PM

gridley

Posts: 126
Joined: 10/2/2006
From: Caledon
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott Parrino

New titles announced by Director of Development Iain McNeil:

Legends of War - More to come soon!
Pandora: First Contact - Q4 2012: A 4x strategy game
Sovereignty - Q3 2012: Region-based grand-campaign strategy game.
Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue - More to come soon!
Field of Glory: Unity Update - Will be free for original owners, Q3 2012
Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog -Last Close Combat game using current engine, aiming for Q4 2012
Commander: The Great War - More to come tomorrow!
Panzer Corps: Afrika Corps - Q2012 - More to come soon! Q3 Panzer Corps will come to the Mac, Q4 will have Allied Pack
Battle Academy: Android version - Q4 2012
Conquest! for iOS/Android - May release, waiting for Apple approval, marketed as a lite wargame
Great Battles Medieval: iPad version - Coming Q2 2012
Field of Glory: Tablet versions - Q4 2012 after Unity update
Field of Glory digital book version - Coming soon! Beta version will be viewed by press
Panzer Corps on iPad - Q3 2012

Oh well...I was kind of keeping my fingers crossed.

Is there some reason MWiF wouldn't be on this list even if you are planning on a 2012 release?

(in reply to Shannon V. OKeets)

Post #: 2697

RE: When? - 4/23/2012 6:07:42 PM

warspite1

Posts: 41353
Joined: 2/2/2008
From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: gridley

quote:

ORIGINAL: Scott Parrino

New titles announced by Director of Development Iain McNeil:

Legends of War - More to come soon!
Pandora: First Contact - Q4 2012: A 4x strategy game
Sovereignty - Q3 2012: Region-based grand-campaign strategy game.
Decisive Campaigns: Case Blue - More to come soon!
Field of Glory: Unity Update - Will be free for original owners, Q3 2012
Close Combat: Panthers in the Fog -Last Close Combat game using current engine, aiming for Q4 2012
Commander: The Great War - More to come tomorrow!
Panzer Corps: Afrika Corps - Q2012 - More to come soon! Q3 Panzer Corps will come to the Mac, Q4 will have Allied Pack
Battle Academy: Android version - Q4 2012
Conquest! for iOS/Android - May release, waiting for Apple approval, marketed as a lite wargame
Great Battles Medieval: iPad version - Coming Q2 2012
Field of Glory: Tablet versions - Q4 2012 after Unity update
Field of Glory digital book version - Coming soon! Beta version will be viewed by press
Panzer Corps on iPad - Q3 2012

Oh well...I was kind of keeping my fingers crossed.

Is there some reason MWiF wouldn't be on this list even if you are planning on a 2012 release?