Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air groups?

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air groups?

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Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air groups? - 4/25/2012 10:09:28 PM

CRations

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Hi everyone,

Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air groups in Scenario 2? I was just thinking that converting some of my cruiser carrier FP air groups to FF air groups might be a nice way to provide CAP to some of my task forces.

CR

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/25/2012 10:18:11 PM

Terminus

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Erm, they CAN provide CAP, you know...

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/25/2012 10:23:26 PM

CRations

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yes but the gun value on all of the FP are much less then the gun value of FF. None of the FP have 20mm cannon either. I'd like a decent chance to take down some of the allied TB/DB and maybe even shoot down some of the escorts.

Most allied DB and well over 50% of the allied TB have an armor rating of 1. That means I pretty much need 20mm guns for my CAP - yes?

< Message edited by CRations -- 4/25/2012 10:27:17 PM >

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/25/2012 10:31:06 PM

wdolson

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I don't believe you can change the plane type of an FP unit to a FF unit. You may be able to take the float planes off a sea plane tender and replace them with an existing Rufe unit. The capacity of a cruiser is going to be too small to support even a small FF unit.

Bill

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/25/2012 10:48:02 PM

CRations

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Hi Bill,

Yeah... It's just that Japan only gets 7 air groups of FF throughout the entire war (3 arrive in April of 42).

So I thought maybe I could convert FP air groups to FF air groups. As Terminus noted earlier, FP can fly CAP. I just looked at the allied DB/TB and noted that with most of them having armor I'd probably need 20mm guns to realistically provide CAP.

If I can't I can't - I just wasn't sure. Thanks Bill & Terminus, for your replies.

CR

Corrected typo - 7 air groups of FF - not FP.

< Message edited by CRations -- 4/25/2012 11:35:29 PM >

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/25/2012 11:28:41 PM

Commander Stormwolf

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FP units can be resized by placing on the CS and expanding

basically FF is good if you need to escort something

(like using Rufes to escort Mavis or Emilies from a forward level-0 base)

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/25/2012 11:37:59 PM

CRations

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

FP units can be resized by placing on the CS and expanding

basically FF is good if you need to escort something

(like using Rufes to escort Mavis or Emilies from a forward level-0 base)

Just curious Commander - can I land a FF air group on a CS and expand the air group? It looks like all of the FF air groups that arrive for Japan in April of 42 have a size of 9 aircraft.

CR

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 1:06:34 AM

Captain Cruft

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Yes you can do that. It's gamey though IMO.

The best solution to your dilemma is to use the editor to re-define Rufes as Floatplanes rather than Float Fighters. They would lose the ability to perform Escort missions but would add the ability to fly day-time offensive missions. Definitely a good trade-off.

This would only affect future games though, not any you are currently playing.

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 1:51:23 AM

Commander Stormwolf

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expand all the units you can, disband units if you have to

*units* are just pieces of paper..

..so imagine the IJN has 200 A6M2-N Rufes produced.. and 200 pilots to fly them..

"sorry.. we don't have any units to put you in.. you have to just hang around HQ until some are shot down"

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 3:16:51 AM

Carolie04

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Most allied DB and well over 50% of the allied TB have an armor rating of 1.

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 3:47:34 AM

fodder

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I like float planes. I don't like the way they handled in the game.

In game only one group can upgrade to Rex, one to Paul and only one will upgrade to the Seiran.

I think any float equipped plane should be able to upgrade into any other float equipped plane.

In my mod, that's just what I've done.

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 3:50:14 AM

wdolson

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Are you playing with the Player Defined Upgrades on? The flexibility for upgrade is pretty open when on. With them off you are constrained to historical upgrade paths.

Bill

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 5:27:19 AM

CRations

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

Are you playing with the Player Defined Upgrades on? The flexibility for upgrade is pretty open when on. With them off you are constrained to historical upgrade paths.

Bill

Hi Bill,

I'm using 1.0.6.1108r9 Scenario 2 playing as Japan against the allied PC. Player Defined Upgrades are on and Realistic R&D is off.

It looks like a FP can convert to any other FP but not to a FF. I think if I want to add FF as a possible upgrade path for my FP then I have to mod this using the editor?

I am actually thinking along the lines of Commander Stormwolf that it is not really considering "gamey" to increase an air group size if that's an option on a CS. Since I'm playing the AI any "gameyness" is probably a mute point

. What I've read though, is that the AI has "scripts" it uses to play against a human.

If I mod the FP to accept FF as an upgrade path, will the mod cause any problems with the AI or its script?

CR

(in reply to wdolson)

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 5:30:49 AM

wdolson

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Probably not. If you made changes to the Allied OOB you might.

Bill

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 5:47:14 AM

CRations

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Allies don't have any FF in their order of battle - at least not on the allied list of aircraft that I see in scenario 2. Which is probably the point you are trying to make?

I'll give it a shot and see what happens. Thanks again for your thoughts on this.

CR

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 5:50:40 AM

wdolson

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I wasn't talking about FF specifically, just mucking around with the OOB the AI uses might screw up the AI, but it's less likely for the human player. At least for fairly small scale changes like this. Throw in a few extra Shokakus and you'd probably break the Allied AI.

Bill

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 6:19:40 AM

Puhis

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations

Hi Bill,

Yeah... It's just that Japan only gets 7 air groups of FF throughout the entire war (3 arrive in April of 42).

Actually, check your AVs. I think one of them have FPs that upgrades to FF even if you play PDU off. I believe it was Kamikawa Maru or Kumikawa Maru, or something else...

I'm playing scenario 1, so I'm not sure about other scenarios.

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 7:54:04 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations

yes but the gun value on all of the FP are much less then the gun value of FF. None of the FP have 20mm cannon either. I'd like a decent chance to take down some of the allied TB/DB and maybe even shoot down some of the escorts.

Most allied DB and well over 50% of the allied TB have an armor rating of 1. That means I pretty much need 20mm guns for my CAP - yes?

you want to shoot down escorts with your float planes? Serious?

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 8:00:53 AM

wdolson

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FFs might effectively defend against a small attack unescorted, but don't expect them to be able to stand against fighters with retractable landing gear.

Bill

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 10:43:33 AM

Erkki

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In DBB(probably same as in stock game scenario 1), in addition to the 7 FF units(6 A6M2-N and 1 N1K1), the 2 groups on AV Kamikawa Maru can upgrade to A6M2-N and then to N1K1. Considering how limited in their usefulness those FF units are, I dont think its too exploitey to first resize them to the max size of the AV, which should be 9. You can use them to protect Kuriles, Andamans or something...

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 5:11:26 PM

Cavalry Corp

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If bombers are unescorted some CAP is better than no Cap even if its Jakes or Petes.
These FP on CAP also deter Patrol planes and may reduce the chance of detection.

The biggest effect they have is not to shoot down incoming attacks but make bombers miss!

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 5:17:12 PM

HansBolter

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wdolson

FFs might effectively defend against a small attack unescorted, but don't expect them to be able to stand against fighters with retractable landing gear.

Bill

I play the Ironman Japane scenario and every last one of the plethora of Japanese AMCs carry Rufes that routinely kick the living sh_t out of P40s.......

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 5:25:07 PM

CRations

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: CRations

yes but the gun value on all of the FP are much less then the gun value of FF. None of the FP have 20mm cannon either. I'd like a decent chance to take down some of the allied TB/DB and maybe even shoot down some of the escorts.

Most allied DB and well over 50% of the allied TB have an armor rating of 1. That means I pretty much need 20mm guns for my CAP - yes?

you want to shoot down escorts with your float planes? Serious?

Well - was being a tad tongue-in-cheek -

Still - if enemy fighters are escorting DB/TB at 9k and my CAP is at 15k... It *could* happen - yes?

CR

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 5:33:07 PM

CRations

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

In DBB(probably same as in stock game scenario 1), in addition to the 7 FF units(6 A6M2-N and 1 N1K1), the 2 groups on AV Kamikawa Maru can upgrade to A6M2-N and then to N1K1. Considering how limited in their usefulness those FF units are, I dont think its too exploitey to first resize them to the max size of the AV, which should be 9. You can use them to protect Kuriles, Andamans or something...

Thanks for the info Erkki. In my battle against the dreaded AI I haven't reached April yet as I'm taking turns slowly so I can study the production and economy side of the game. It's mid-January in my game right now and I'm just starting to see patterns that I can recognize.

This game is cray-zee!

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 6:32:14 PM

Jorge_Stanbury

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Erkki

In DBB(probably same as in stock game scenario 1), in addition to the 7 FF units(6 A6M2-N and 1 N1K1), the 2 groups on AV Kamikawa Maru can upgrade to A6M2-N and then to N1K1. Considering how limited in their usefulness those FF units are, I dont think its too exploitey to first resize them to the max size of the AV, which should be 9. You can use them to protect Kuriles, Andamans or something...

Why not resize them to Chitose-size? which I think is 24 or 27
Moving them won't be as easy, since they won't fit on AVs (either use CS or air transport instead) but CAP is a lot more effective when you have the numbers

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RE: Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air g... - 4/26/2012 11:29:50 PM

Commander Stormwolf

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having 27 Rufe / Rex on CAP is pretty useful..

if you're facing a raid by allied LBA (Say P-40 escorting B-25s)

then the Rufe can keep the P-40's busy and
due to the common

"escort cannot maintain formation, proceeding to target"

when the B-25s arrive and you still have Rufes up there.. you get the message

UNESCORTED BMBRS TURNING BACK!

i think it is a serious bug and they would only turn back once they are attacked,
and only if they have low morale... it's even worse when my A6M escort tears apart
the F4F CAP, and then my unescorted H8K emilies turn back

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> Is there a way to convert FP air groups to FF air groups?

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