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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A)

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Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/27/2012 9:12:44 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

I've got myself a superb opponent to beat me across the map. I am extremely excited.

This is a closed AAR, so please stay out, Chris. You won't need any intel anyways

We started a slowpaced game with the same setup as Canoerebel, so the first turns will be similar. I am allowed to read both his and Canoe's AARs.
There's only one HR: There'll be a Chinese reservation in the inner four bases, should I fail totally. Also, I asked him not to take R&D too serious... :)

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Post #: 1

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/27/2012 9:56:35 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
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Created by the amazing Dixie

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/27/2012 10:04:51 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

PH-Strike
A horrible strike. 25 Torpedo hits on the BBs alone! 4DDs and 1DMS went down, the BBs are ALL still afloat! Unfortunately, USS Arizone will turn into the monument she is today. With 32-98-27-56, there is no hope that her fires will be put out before she's gone...

None of the others is on fire, though the damage is significant. Should he decide to strike another tim, some more will likely go down:

Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Clear sky

Raid detected at 98 NM, estimated altitude 8,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 32 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 80
B5N2 Kate x 144
D3A1 Val x 132

Allied aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 5 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 2 destroyed by flak
B5N2 Kate: 2 damaged
B5N2 Kate: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
B-17D Fortress: 43 damaged
B-17D Fortress: 2 destroyed on ground
PBY-5 Catalina: 103 damaged
PBY-5 Catalina: 4 destroyed on ground
SBD-1 Dauntless: 24 damaged
SBD-1 Dauntless: 3 destroyed on ground
B-17E Fortress: 12 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 1 destroyed on ground
A-20A Havoc: 16 damaged
A-20A Havoc: 1 destroyed on ground
B-18A Bolo: 39 damaged
B-18A Bolo: 4 destroyed on ground
R3D-2: 2 damaged
R3D-2: 1 destroyed on ground
P-40B Warhawk: 58 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 5 destroyed on ground
P-36A Mohawk: 15 damaged
P-36A Mohawk: 2 destroyed on ground
F4F-3 Wildcat: 20 damaged
F4F-3 Wildcat: 1 destroyed on ground
O-47A: 14 damaged
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground
C-33: 1 damaged
C-33: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
BB Arizona, Bomb hits 2, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
BB Pennsylvania, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 1, heavy fires
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 4, Torpedo hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
BB Nevada, Torpedo hits 4, on fire, heavy damage
CA San Francisco, Torpedo hits 2
BB California, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DM Sicard
BB Tennessee, Bomb hits 6, Torpedo hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
BB Oklahoma, Bomb hits 5, Torpedo hits 3, on fire, heavy damage
BB Maryland, Bomb hits 3, Torpedo hits 3, heavy fires
AV Wright
CL Helena, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Dale, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Allen, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CL Raleigh, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
PC Tiger, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
CA New Orleans, Bomb hits 2, on fire, heavy damage
CL Detroit, Bomb hits 1, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Selfridge, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires
DD Case, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AD Whitney, Torpedo hits 1, on fire
AV Tangier, Torpedo hits 1
CL Honolulu, Torpedo hits 1, on fire, heavy damage
DD Downes, Bomb hits 1, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Tucker, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
AVP Swan, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk
DMS Trevor, Torpedo hits 1, and is sunk

Allied ground losses:
14 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled

Airbase hits 43
Airbase supply hits 1
Runway hits 86
Port hits 19
Port fuel hits 1
Port supply hits 1

Aircraft Attacking:
13 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
15 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
16 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
12 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
17 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
4 x A6M2 Zero sweeping at 15000 feet
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
17 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
19 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x B5N2 Kate launching torpedoes at 200 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 18in Type 91 Torpedo
12 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
14 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
6 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
10 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Airfield Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

CAP engaged:
15th PG/45th PS with P-36A Mohawk (0 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
0 plane(s) not yet engaged, 1 being recalled, 0 out of immediate contact.
Group patrol altitude is 10000
Time for all group planes to reach interception is 9 minutes

Training flight from 15th PG/45th PS has been caught up in attack

PI-Area
Vigan is taken by Jap Paras. I like to do that as well, that saves the losses and disruptions.

The fleeing British DDs meet a Jap Amphib TF. They do some damage, but one of them will propably be gone:

Day Time Surface Combat, near Iba at 77,70, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Yamagumo, Shell hits 1
DD Tachikaze, Shell hits 1, on fire
APD Shimakaze
APD Nadakaze
TB Chidori
TB Manazuru
TB Hatsukari, Shell hits 1
TB Tomozuru
DMS W-13, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
DMS W-14, Shell hits 2, on fire
PB Aso Maru #3
PB Kiso Maru
PB Nanpo Maru, Shell hits 2
CM Tsubame
AV Sanuki Maru
xAK Sydney Maru #2
xAKL Kumakawa Maru, Shell hits 3, heavy fires
xAKL Hakuyo Maru, Shell hits 2
xAKL Hanakawa Maru

Allied Ships
DD Scout, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Thanet, Shell hits 1
DD Thracian, Shell hits 1

Japanese ground losses:
156 casualties reported
Squads: 1 destroyed, 9 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 2 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 21,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 21,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru screened from combat
- escorted by TB Manazuru
DD Yamagumo engages DD Scout at 21,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards
CM Tsubame screened from combat
- escorted by PB Kiso Maru
DD Yamagumo engages DD Scout at 17,000 yards
DD Thracian engages APD Nadakaze at 17,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards
DD Tachikaze engages DD Thanet at 15,000 yards
DD Yamagumo engages DD Scout at 15,000 yards
DD Thracian engages TB Tomozuru at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze ,
APD Shimakaze , xAK Sydney Maru #2 , xAKL Hanakawa Maru ,
xAKL Hakuyo Maru screened from combat
- escorted by DD Tachikaze , DD Yamagumo , TB Tomozuru ,
TB Hatsukari
DD Yamagumo engages DD Thracian at 12,000 yards
DD Thanet engages DD Yamagumo at 12,000 yards
DD Yamagumo engages DD Scout at 12,000 yards
DD Scout engages PB Aso Maru #3 at 12,000 yards
DD Scout engages DMS W-13 at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze ,
APD Shimakaze , xAK Sydney Maru #2 screened from combat
- escorted by DD Yamagumo , PB Nanpo Maru , PB Aso Maru #3
DD Tachikaze engages DD Thracian at 8,000 yards
DD Thanet engages DMS W-13 at 8,000 yards
DD Thanet engages TB Hatsukari at 8,000 yards
DD Thracian engages DMS W-13 at 8,000 yards
Range closes to 7,000 yards
DD Yamagumo engages DD Thracian at 7,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Yamagumo at 7,000 yards
TB Tomozuru engages DD Scout at 7,000 yards
TB Manazuru engages DD Scout at 7,000 yards
TB Chidori engages DD Thracian at 7,000 yards
Range closes to 6,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze ,
APD Shimakaze screened from combat
- escorted by DD Tachikaze , DMS W-14
DD Thracian engages DD Yamagumo at 6,000 yards
DD Thanet engages TB Tomozuru at 6,000 yards
TB Hatsukari engages DD Thanet at 6,000 yards
DD Thracian engages PB Kiso Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Thracian engages PB Aso Maru #3 at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze screened from combat
- escorted by DD Tachikaze , TB Hatsukari
DD Yamagumo engages DD Scout at 5,000 yards
DD Thanet engages DD Yamagumo at 5,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Yamagumo at 5,000 yards
Range increases to 6,000 yards
DD Thracian engages DD Tachikaze at 6,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Yamagumo at 6,000 yards
DD Scout engages TB Tomozuru at 6,000 yards
Range closes to 5,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze ,
APD Shimakaze , xAK Sydney Maru #2 screened from combat
- escorted by DD Yamagumo , TB Tomozuru , DMS W-14
DD Thracian engages DD Tachikaze at 5,000 yards
DD Scout engages TB Hatsukari at 5,000 yards
DD Thracian engages TB Manazuru at 5,000 yards
DD Thracian engages DMS W-13 at 5,000 yards
DD Thracian engages xAKL Hakuyo Maru at 5,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze screened from combat
- escorted by TB Chidori , PB Aso Maru #3
DD Tachikaze engages DD Thracian at 5,000 yards
DD Thanet engages DD Tachikaze at 5,000 yards
DD Thracian engages TB Tomozuru at 5,000 yards
DD Thracian engages PB Kiso Maru at 5,000 yards
DD Thracian engages DMS W-13 at 5,000 yards
Range closes to 4,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze ,
APD Shimakaze , xAK Sydney Maru #2 screened from combat
DD Tachikaze engages DD Thracian at 4,000 yards
DD Yamagumo engages DD Thracian at 4,000 yards
TB Tomozuru engages DD Thracian at 4,000 yards
DD Thracian engages PB Nanpo Maru at 4,000 yards
DD Thracian engages DMS W-14 at 4,000 yards
DD Thracian engages xAKL Kumakawa Maru at 4,000 yards
Powers, A.L. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 6,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze ,
APD Shimakaze , xAK Sydney Maru #2 , xAKL Hanakawa Maru screened from combat
- escorted by DD Tachikaze , DD Yamagumo , PB Nanpo Maru ,
PB Aso Maru #3
DD Scout engages TB Tomozuru at 6,000 yards
DD Thanet engages xAKL Kumakawa Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Scout engages TB Tomozuru at 6,000 yards
DD Thracian engages PB Kiso Maru at 6,000 yards
DD Thracian engages xAKL Hakuyo Maru at 6,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
DD Thracian engages DD Yamagumo at 10,000 yards
DD Yamagumo engages DD Thanet at 10,000 yards
DD Scout engages DD Yamagumo at 10,000 yards
DD Scout engages TB Chidori at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 15,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze ,
APD Shimakaze , xAK Sydney Maru #2 screened from combat
- escorted by DD Tachikaze , TB Tomozuru , DMS W-14
DD Scout engages TB Hatsukari at 15,000 yards
DD Scout engages TB Manazuru at 15,000 yards
DD Thracian engages PB Aso Maru #3 at 15,000 yards
Range increases to 18,000 yards
DD Yamagumo engages DD Scout at 18,000 yards
Range increases to 21,000 yards
CM Tsubame , AV Sanuki Maru , APD Nadakaze ,
APD Shimakaze , xAK Sydney Maru #2 screened from combat
- escorted by DD Tachikaze , TB Chidori , DMS W-14
Task forces break off...

Pacific
Both CVs were set to full speed on turn one. Thus, the Lex was already in range to take the Fighters from Wake. Both will first head to Pago Pago, then to the DEI.

DEI:
I am very bad in land combat. So I might need some advice.

I plan to do my last stand on Java at Bandoeng. It produces only 20 supplies per turn, but as a mountain hex, it'll be good to defend. I don't expect to be able to supply a sieg by ships, so the inland hex is no problem. Instead, it is also safe from naval bombardement.

Malaya:
Two weaker units will be sacrificed to stall the enemy advance. I will leave units on every base along the railline to prevent paradrops, but will only fight with those two units outside Singapore.
Should he decide to the Mersing Gambit, my reaction will be to try getting every unit north of Johore Baru to Sumatra. From there, as much as possible will be evacuated to India.

PI:
Clark Field, no doubt. Manila will either be lightly defended or undefended. But I don't really want to vaste units defending Manila one or two days that capitulate because Clark Field is already besieged as well.

China:
I try my best. I will mostly do diversons, buy time, and hope to survive.
Interesting: He intended to give up Ichang. His units were retreating. I had no intention to put all that Corps in there, so I decided to send only one weak Chinese unit that is sufficiant for the garrison. He immediatly reacted and cancelled his retreat, seeing my units aren't hreading for the base. So he checks really thoughtfully and accurate!
I will respond in kind and march with all units to Ichang.

Overall Strategy:
I love those first months in the war on the allied side. I really love the defense, and I see this as the only window of opportunity for some assured big guns action. Only now will he move into my territory outside his own aircover on several axis. So only now, I am able to fight him on several fronts on the surface.
The surface forces in the DEI are reinforced with everything that can fight at least a destroyer. Every sunk troop transport with assault troops is worth it's tonnage in gold!
You can take that literally! I will even send Hermes, despite lacking own fighters! Every ship with guns bigger than 5in will join the battle!

Apart from that, I will reinforce Koepang enough to buy me a few weeks, hopefully. But I won't reinforce the Pacific! I won't reinforce Burma and I propably won't even reinforce PM.
I have to fight an opponent who has played a lot of games against Nemo! I surely don't have hybris and expect to be able to best that easily. Especially considered that he knows the game mechanics and I don't (too much).
So my main area of defense apart from China will be Canada, the southern tip of Australia and Tasmania, and the area east (real east) of Bombay. Forces will be in the Calcutta area, on the mainland of India close to Ceylon and in middle and northern Australia. But they'll only be there to stall him and not to invite him.
Everything that can be spared from the US will thus be sent to those both areas using mostly Cape Town.

But I won't just run. While I don't expect too much from myself in land warfare, I will prepare some nasty surprises at sea...

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/27/2012 10:08:42 PM >

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(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 3

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/29/2012 9:38:02 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Another one! You're busy lately! I'll be checking in.

Your reservation idea in China is a good one. It probably makes it easier to play freely in the beginning as well, knowing there is still a safe haven at the end.

I also like the beginning several months for the Allies. So little hope but so many chances to be a spoiler.

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 4

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/29/2012 10:26:42 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

I�ll follow this one too! :)

Since obvert has more or less cleaned up China in our game I can freely give you some advice here on what to avoid!

I tried to preserv as much of the chinese as possible avoiding impossible battles. That might have been a mistake. To be honest you might do better if you actually lost a big portion of your army since it will help with supply.
China in general is (imo) very imbalanced in its current state. Its too easy for the Jap and/or too hard for the Allied. With retrospekt I think trying to deny the Jap airsupremacy might be the only doable way to stop a collapse of China. I�m not even sure it can be done if the Jap player puts up an effort in China. But I will certainly try in my next game if China hasn�t changed. The ability for the Jap to keep 100s of bombers active in the theatre with extemly low losses is disasterous and what I think is the biggest imbalace in the theatre. Chinese AA is non existant. I have no clue how one would be able to keep a fighterpresence in bigger numbers in China though. Most AFs are level 1 with two or tree a bit bigger. This makes the AFs really easy for the Jap to close. Since it will be very hard to keep any base over 20k supply you will most likely have to send them back to India for reinforcments.

It might be to late for that but you might want to try and put some kind of HR in place regarding the use of Jap armour in China. The Jap can put toghether a very ahistorical tank army that would make AGC envious. Combine that with the nonexisting AT values of the Chinese its bordering ehm...murder?

Get as much supplies into Rangoon as possible and try to draw it into China. I dumped 200k supplies there and it made nil differnce in the end. So you probably need more then that!

Good luck! :)

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 5

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/29/2012 3:29:47 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

Thanks guys! I guess it'll be an exciting ride. I propably face one of the most agressive and best players that this great game has.

What do my basic plannings?

India:
Strong forces in the calcutta region, but if possible as many "retreating in 300-500 days", so units that are not only expendable, but that are already "gone".
The main defense will concentrate on Karachi and Bombay. I also increase the airfields close to Ceylon, to be able attacking an enemy invasion there.
The tank units in India are bought out, if affordable and after that set to recieve reinforcements. They will be north of Calcutta to hold the railroads into the Krachi region open, as he'll surely complement any invasion of that region with serious paradrops.

Ceylon:
Ceylon is reinforced by:
- 48th Gurkha Bde
- 44th Indian Bde
- 45th Indian Bde
- 46th Indian Bde
- 18th British Division
As well as AAA and artillery

Burma:
No reinforcements. The reputation of my opponent strikes fear into me.

If I wouldn't care about spoiling the fun, I'd do a full "Sir Robin" here. But I have the duty to my opponent to do more than just send every unit to Karachi and hold out there unitl I can roll back all his conquests.
But his paradrops in the game against Canoe have shown me, that I have to take care of that as well. Usually, I'd defend Moulmein, Rangoon and Pegu and would retreat via rail to Myitkyina afterwards. As he doesn't control the rails, I have a month or more in Myitkyina .
Now, I have to defend every single base along the road. Also, given his aggressiveness, I expect him to bypass strongpoints. Should I send the reinforcements no going to Ceylon, He'll surely react by simply invading the Calcutta area to destroy everything that's in Burma.

Australia:
Compareably to India. The defense will focus on Syndey and Melbourne. Every unit retreating until 1944 will be sent north if I can afford it, but I won't let myself get caught with my pants down when he invades southern Australia.
Western Front:
Kalgorlie, Port Augusta and Adeleide are reinforced to keep a possible retreat rout open for the western front.
Eastern Front:
It will only consist of retreating units. If he wants, he can easily cut off nothern troops. I'm afraid that might look like Sir Robin, but does it make sense to waste units I'll need later? The bases along the coast up to Rockhampton will be reinforced, but not too strong.

DEI:
Sumatra:
Palembang is reinforced from southern Sumatra. He'll most likely invade it in three or four days, so there's no chance for a "Fortress Palembang".
The northern railroad from Medan north will be held. I expect Mersing Gambit, so this will be the route for Malayan units to be evacuated north and then shipped to India from Sabang.
Java:
I think about retreating everything except the garrisons to Bandoeng. Any Comments?
Borneo:
Bandjersamin will be ecavuated to reinforce other fronts. As much as possible from the Tarakan Garrison is sent south as well. I usually bought out the CD unit there and sent it to PM, but I'm not sure where his CVLs are, and whether I'll be able to do so.
Timor:
Timor will be reinforced to hold out as long as possible, to keep the freedom of movement in northern Australia.

Port Moresby:
Will be reinforced, but not extremely. If he wants, he can take it in scenario 2.

Pacific:
No reinforcements, but no evacuations as well. I think about repositioning a few units to surprise him and maybe weaken a few smaller units.

US forces:
All US forces are sent to India and Australia. He will not get them.

Generally, I tend to Sir Robin in my games as Allied Player.
For one reason, I don't have high esteem on my abilities in ground warfare. So I don't like the idea to waste my units.
The other reason is the Amphib bonus and the intel the Japanese player has by simply starting the game on the Allied side. So all it takes him is to take two divisions and take one island after the other as long as the amphib bonus is active. Even if I can reinforce an island far genough to repell a first attack, he can always come back with 4 divisions or simply isloate the island and bomb it to shreds.
I will fight hard with my ships, though!

Any ideas?

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(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 6

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/29/2012 4:01:49 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Ceylon: I think you overdo it here. If he wants it he is going to take it. Leave enought to make him bleed on the beaches and force him to make a big investment. But don�t waste three divisions worth of troops on it. I think they are better used to defend India proper!

Burma on the other hand...
I think you need to try and keep the Burma road open for as long as possible. It might be impossible since I think one of his main objektives will be to close it. But knowing now what I know about China I would say this might be the most important things to do early game. Have a mentioned trying to draw supplies into China via Rangoon?

In India I would move the MLR a bit south of Calcutta to the Bruma borders better defendeble terrain. This will expose them to landings in the rear but I think the terrain is worth it! He can�t move everywhere at once. So you might get warning in time to withdraw if he moves for Central India and the Calcutta region.

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 7

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/29/2012 4:57:28 PM

Dan Nichols

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline

You might want to send your CVs to Canton Island first. There should be 8000 fuel there, and almost none at Pago Pago.

(in reply to JocMeister)

Post #: 8

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 7:18:16 AM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Btw, What are you doing with your CVs? Canoerebel uses them very agressivly early on and sends them to DEI! Something I never thought of. Could be a worth a shot to try. It could force him to cover all his landings by either strong LBA or KB. There is risk involved yes but slowing him down even a few weeks could be invaluable! Could even wreck a landing if you manged to time it right!

(in reply to Dan Nichols)

Post #: 9

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 7:36:34 AM

Erkki

Posts: 1461
Joined: 2/17/2010
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Btw, What are you doing with your CVs? Canoerebel uses them very agressivly early on and sends them to DEI! Something I never thought of. Could be a worth a shot to try. It could force him to cover all his landings by either strong LBA or KB. There is risk involved yes but slowing him down even a few weeks could be invaluable! Could even wreck a landing if you manged to time it right!

IMHO they're worth using but only if you can stall an invasion or hit some other juicy targets at low risk(= you know the KB and the MKB's locations). But you will then give out your CVs' position to your opponent who might be able to exploit their absence somewhere else, especially if the invasion bonus is still available. Also your opponent knows how few CV aircraft you have available in the opening months of the war. Meeting even just an LRCAP of half a dozen Zeros even once might remove USN CVs as a respectable enough threat for a long time.

< Message edited by Erkki -- 4/30/2012 7:39:01 AM >

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Post #: 10

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 9:39:35 AM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

After reading your comments, the 18th British Division is sent to Australia instead. I'd love to turn Cocos Island into a fortress, but I'm afraid this isn't possible, yet - especially against Hortlund.

China will be defended with a mixture of attacks and defensive actions:
The Chengchow-Loyang-Pocket will send units across the river into the rugged terrain. The engineer units retreat to Sian.
Right now, I think about attacking Nanchang. As I have troops en route to the open field between Hankow and Sinyang, he's moving troops from Wuchang north. I can cut off all routes to Nanchang and Kiukiang, while about 1.290 AV are ready for the attack on Nanchang.

The CVs go to the DEI as well.
I did this before and even destroyed the MKB twice. Combined with the Dutch air force, it can be quite powerfull.
I might also just send them off the carrier and operate them from the DEI, as long as the units can flee south or back onto the carrier.
My basic principle in this game is to keep the initiative. He has it right now, but I'll try to force his game into my turns. For that, at least occasional small CV actions are essential!

_____________________________

(in reply to Erkki)

Post #: 11

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 12:33:19 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

The lesson begins...
(but not the way anticipated...

First, the KB goes for another strike at Pearl, as anticipated:

Unfortunately, it ends as it mostly ends...
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Night Time Surface Combat, near Pearl Harbor at 182,105, Range 11,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CV Kaga
CV Hiryu
CV Soryu
CV Shokaku
CV Zuikaku
CV Akagi
BB Hiei
BB Kirishima
CA Tone
CA Chikuma
CL Abukuma
DD Akigumo
DD Kagero
DD Isokaze
DD Shiranui
DD Urakaze
DD Hamakaze
DD Tanikaze
DD Arare
DD Kasumi

Allied Ships
PT-20
PT-21
PT-22
PT-23
PT-24
PT-25

Improved night sighting under 85% moonlight
Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions and 85% moonlight: 12,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards...
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 11,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 11,000 yards
CV Akagi , CV Zuikaku , CV Shokaku ,
CV Soryu screened from combat
- escorted by DD Urakaze , DD Shiranui
PT-21 collides with PT-23 at 182 , 105
BB Kirishima engages PT-25 at 11,000 yards
BB Hiei engages PT-25 at 11,000 yards
CA Chikuma engages PT-25 at 11,000 yards
DD Arare engages PT-25 at 11,000 yards
DD Isokaze engages PT-25 at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CV Akagi , CV Zuikaku , CV Shokaku ,
CV Soryu , CV Hiryu , CV Kaga screened from combat
- escorted by DD Arare , DD Hamakaze , DD Urakaze ,
DD Akigumo
DD Shiranui engages PT-24 at 10,000 yards
DD Kagero engages PT-25 at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CV Akagi , CV Zuikaku , CV Shokaku ,
CV Soryu , CV Hiryu , CV Kaga screened from combat
- escorted by DD Kasumi , DD Arare , DD Urakaze ,
DD Isokaze
Range increases to 10,000 yards
CV Akagi , CV Zuikaku , CV Shokaku ,
CV Soryu , CV Hiryu , CV Kaga screened from combat
- escorted by DD Kasumi , DD Arare , DD Isokaze ,
DD Akigumo
DD Hamakaze engages PT-23 at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
DD Isokaze collides with CA Tone at 182 , 105
DD Kagero engages PT-23 at 12,000 yards
Task forces break off...

So even while this attack was obviously useless in means of torpedoes, there is some chance DD Isokaze might be damaged enough not to make it home.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/30/2012 12:34:59 PM >

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(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 12

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 12:40:42 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

Oops

Day Time Surface Combat, near Singkawang at 56,87, Range 23,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CVL Ryujo, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hatsukaze, Shell hits 3, on fire
DD Natsushio, Shell hits 4, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Hayashio, Shell hits 1
DD Amatsukaze

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales, Shell hits 3
BC Repulse
DD Vampire, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Tenedos
DD Electra
DD Express

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 23,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 23,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CVL Ryujo at 23,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Amatsukaze at 23,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Hayashio at 23,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Hayashio at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 15,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CVL Ryujo at 15,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Amatsukaze at 15,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Express at 15,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Electra at 15,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Hatsukaze at 15,000 yards
DD Hayashio engages DD Vampire at 15,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CVL Ryujo at 13,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Amatsukaze at 13,000 yards
DD Hayashio engages DD Vampire at 13,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Vampire at 13,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Hatsukaze at 13,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Vampire at 13,000 yards
Range closes to 11,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CVL Ryujo at 11,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CVL Ryujo at 11,000 yards
DD Hayashio engages DD Vampire at 11,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Vampire at 11,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze engages DD Express at 11,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Hayashio at 11,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Hayashio at 8,000 yards
DD Amatsukaze engages DD Tenedos at 8,000 yards
DD Hatsukaze engages DD Express at 8,000 yards
DD Amatsukaze engages DD Electra at 8,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Hatsukaze at 8,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Hayashio at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CVL Ryujo at 10,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Hatsukaze at 10,000 yards
DD Amatsukaze engages DD Express at 10,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Natsushio at 10,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Hatsukaze at 10,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Natsushio at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 15,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Natsushio at 15,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Hatsukaze at 15,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Natsushio at 15,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Amatsukaze at 15,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Hatsukaze at 15,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Hatsukaze at 15,000 yards
Range increases to 18,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CVL Ryujo at 18,000 yards
DD Amatsukaze engages DD Vampire at 18,000 yards
DD Hayashio engages DD Express at 18,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Vampire at 18,000 yards
DD Natsushio engages DD Vampire at 18,000 yards
Range increases to 21,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Natsushio at 21,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Hayashio at 21,000 yards
CVL Ryujo screened from combat
- escorted by DD Hayashio
BC Repulse engages CVL Ryujo at 21,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Hatsukaze at 21,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Hatsukaze at 21,000 yards
Range increases to 22,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CVL Ryujo at 22,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Amatsukaze at 22,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Hatsukaze at 22,000 yards
Massive explosion on CVL Ryujo
Fuel storage explosion on CVL Ryujo
BB Prince of Wales engages CVL Ryujo at 22,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Amatsukaze at 22,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Hayashio at 22,000 yards
Range increases to 26,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Natsushio at 26,000 yards
BC Repulse engages DD Amatsukaze at 26,000 yards
Task forces break off...

This caused some serious problems. Hortlund was - obviously - not happy about my intercept and anticipated me to benefit from his game against Canoe. The truth, and nothing but the truh is, that I wasn't going for the CVL. I expected my TFs not to meet but sent two SCTFs on an intercept course for the troop transports.
I told him, he knew that I read both AARs, always am very aggressive and expected him to do something different, which he did as he invaded Sinkawang and I therefore missed the transports!

But, fine as this opponent is, he will stay in the game anyways, even despite another problem that will show later...

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/30/2012 12:44:14 PM >

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(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 13

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 12:47:49 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

Some more intercepts from my side:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Singkawang at 55,87, Range 21,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, Shell hits 3, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Haguro, Shell hits 7, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Kuroshio
DD Oyashio

Allied Ships
BB Prince of Wales
BC Repulse, Shell hits 11, on fire
DD Vampire, Shell hits 14, and is sunk
DD Tenedos, Shell hits 6, heavy fires, heavy damage
DD Electra, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Express, Shell hits 13, and is sunk

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 21,000 yards
Japanese open fire on surprised Allied ships at 21,000 yards
CA Haguro launches Long Lance Torpedoes at BC Repulse at 21,000 yards
CA Myoko launches Long Lance Torpedoes at BC Repulse at 21,000 yards
CA Myoko launches Long Lance Torpedoes at DD Express at 21,000 yards
DD Kuroshio launches Long Lance Torpedoes at DD Tenedos at 21,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Vampire at 16,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Haguro at 16,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Express at 16,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Kuroshio at 16,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Kuroshio at 16,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Kuroshio at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB Prince of Wales at 13,000 yards
CA Myoko engages DD Vampire at 13,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Oyashio at 13,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Express at 13,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Tenedos at 13,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Vampire at 13,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Myoko at 12,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Oyashio at 12,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Electra at 12,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Tenedos at 12,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Vampire at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB Prince of Wales at 10,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Express at 10,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Tenedos at 10,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Tenedos at 10,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Kuroshio at 10,000 yards
Range closes to 8,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CA Myoko at 8,000 yards
CA Myoko engages DD Express at 8,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Oyashio at 8,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Electra at 8,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Tenedos at 8,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Vampire at 8,000 yards
Range increases to 10,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CA Haguro at 10,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BC Repulse at 10,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Kuroshio at 10,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Electra at 10,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Tenedos at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Express at 12,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Myoko at 12,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Oyashio at 12,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Kuroshio at 12,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Vampire at 12,000 yards
Phillips, Tom S.V. orders Allied TF to disengage
Range increases to 14,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Express at 14,000 yards
CA Myoko engages DD Express at 14,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Oyashio at 14,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Electra at 14,000 yards
DD Vampire engages DD Kuroshio at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 13,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB Prince of Wales at 13,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Haguro at 13,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Kuroshio at 13,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Tenedos at 13,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Vampire at 13,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BB Prince of Wales at 12,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Haguro at 12,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Express at 12,000 yards
DD Electra engages DD Kuroshio at 12,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Tenedos at 12,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Vampire at 12,000 yards
Mori, Tokuji orders Japanese TF to disengage
Range closes to 10,000 yards
CA Haguro engages BC Repulse at 10,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Myoko at 10,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Electra at 10,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Tenedos at 10,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Tenedos at 10,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Vampire at 10,000 yards
Range increases to 16,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Myoko at 16,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Express at 16,000 yards
DD Kuroshio engages DD Electra at 16,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Oyashio at 16,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Vampire at 16,000 yards
Range increases to 19,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CA Haguro at 19,000 yards
CA Myoko engages DD Express at 19,000 yards
DD Express engages DD Oyashio at 19,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Electra at 19,000 yards
DD Tenedos engages DD Oyashio at 19,000 yards
DD Oyashio engages DD Vampire at 19,000 yards
Range increases to 22,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Haguro at 22,000 yards
CA Myoko engages DD Express at 22,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Express at 22,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Vampire at 22,000 yards
Range increases to 24,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Haguro at 24,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Myoko at 24,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Oyashio at 24,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Kuroshio at 24,000 yards
DD Vampire sunk by CA Haguro at 24,000 yards
Range increases to 27,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages CA Myoko at 27,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Myoko at 27,000 yards
BB Prince of Wales engages DD Oyashio at 27,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Tenedos at 27,000 yards
Range increases to 29,000 yards
CA Haguro engages DD Express at 29,000 yards
BC Repulse engages CA Myoko at 29,000 yards
DD Express sunk by CA Myoko at 29,000 yards
CA Myoko engages DD Electra at 29,000 yards
CA Myoko engages DD Tenedos at 29,000 yards
Task forces break off...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Day Time Surface Combat, near Serasan at 57,86, Range 19,000 Yards

Japanese Ships
DD Amatsukaze, Shell hits 9, heavy fires, heavy damage

Allied Ships
CL Danae, Shell hits 1
CL Dragon
CL Durban, Shell hits 2

Maximum visibility in Clear Conditions: 30,000 yards
CONTACT: Japanese lookouts spot Allied task force at 21,000 yards
CONTACT: Allied lookouts spot Japanese task force at 21,000 yards
Range closes to 19,000 yards...
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 19,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 19,000 yards
Range closes to 18,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 18,000 yards
CL Dragon engages DD Amatsukaze at 18,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 18,000 yards
Range closes to 17,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 17,000 yards
CL Dragon engages DD Amatsukaze at 17,000 yards
Range closes to 16,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 16,000 yards
CL Dragon engages DD Amatsukaze at 16,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 16,000 yards
Range closes to 14,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 14,000 yards
CL Dragon engages DD Amatsukaze at 14,000 yards
Range closes to 12,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 12,000 yards
CL Dragon engages DD Amatsukaze at 12,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 12,000 yards
Range closes to 9,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 9,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 9,000 yards
Range increases to 14,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 14,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 14,000 yards
Range increases to 17,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 17,000 yards
CL Dragon engages DD Amatsukaze at 17,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 17,000 yards
Range increases to 19,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 19,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 19,000 yards
Range increases to 20,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 20,000 yards
CL Dragon engages DD Amatsukaze at 20,000 yards
CL Danae engages DD Amatsukaze at 20,000 yards
Range increases to 21,000 yards
Range closes to 20,000 yards
CL Durban engages DD Amatsukaze at 20,000 yards
CL Dragon engages DD Amatsukaze at 20,000 yards
Task forces break off...

Those british CLs were on a sacrifical mission intended to break through the enemy lines in the direction of Brunei. The DD they found was propably escorting the damaged CVL. Well, they proceed as "planned"...
Japanese Ships
CL Naka, Shell hits 6
DD Natsugumo
DD Minegumo, Shell hits 2, on fire
DD Asagumo, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
DD Murasame
DD Harusame, Shell hits 4
DD Yudachi, Shell hits 1, on fire
DD Samidare, Shell hits 4, heavy fires

Allied Ships
CL Danae, Shell hits 15, Torpedo hits 2, and is sunk
CL Dragon, Shell hits 1
CL Durban, Shell hits 18, on fire

More Surface Combat:
Day Time Surface Combat, near Singkawang at 56,87, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Haguro, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
DD Kuroshio
DD Oyashio

Allied Ships
DD Van Ghent, Shell hits 1, on fire

Subs:
USS Pearch draws first blood, putting two fish into xAK Tsuyama Maru which is heavy damaged in the combat report. She carried troops, and one vehicle was destroyed and another one disabled

USS Pearch comes back and puts another two fishes into xAK Sugiyama Maru, which is heavy damaged as well. It also carried troops.

2nd Pearl Harbor strike:
As there was no BB sunk in turn one, I was sure that he'll attack another day. So I put almost every ship in TFs to empty the harbor. The strike only met the USS West Virginia, which was already too heavyly damaged to be put into a TF savely.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Morning Air attack on Pearl Harbor , at 180,107

Weather in hex: Moderate rain

Raid detected at 110 NM, estimated altitude 9,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 36 minutes

Japanese aircraft
A6M2 Zero x 45
B5N2 Kate x 140
D3A1 Val x 77

Allied aircraft
P-36A Mohawk x 4
P-40B Warhawk x 12
F4F-3 Wildcat x 1

Japanese aircraft losses
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed, 5 damaged
A6M2 Zero: 1 destroyed by flak
D3A1 Val: 2 damaged
D3A1 Val: 1 destroyed by flak

Allied aircraft losses
P-36A Mohawk: 2 destroyed, 1 damaged
P-40B Warhawk: 4 destroyed, 1 damaged
O-47A: 1 destroyed on ground

Allied Ships
BB West Virginia, Bomb hits 11, heavy fires, heavy damage
AV Tangier, Bomb hits 1

Allied ground losses:
5 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 0 disabled

Airbase hits 2
Runway hits 6
Port hits 7

Aircraft Attacking:
8 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
27 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 2 x 250 kg SAP Bomb
3 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
16 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
18 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
17 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
16 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
26 x B5N2 Kate bombing from 9000 feet
Port Attack: 1 x 800 kg AP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x A6M2 Zero bombing from 100 feet
Airfield Attack: 1 plane(s) with no ordnance
Airfield Attack: 2 x 60 kg GP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
2 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
5 x D3A1 Val releasing from 3000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 1000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
4 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
City Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb
8 x D3A1 Val releasing from 2000'
Port Attack: 1 x 250 kg GP Bomb

He sent me "And empty Pearl Harbor?"
I repeated: "Sure! Did you expect me to await your next port strike without doing anything?"
He: "You are a historian, you tell me if the entire fleet at PH could have left port the day after the attack? Including several heavily damaged ships. And for what reason since real life Kates doesnt care if the ship is in port or just offshore. "

While he is absolutly right, especially about the Kates, it didn't even come in my mind that this might be a problem. USS America did this with me and I only thought "****" and "Smart move". I never thought about it being a problem, especially as a second day of strikes hasn't happend for good reasons and is consequently ahistorical as well.

Attack on Burma Road:
He does a para assault on Lashio, which fails. I will send reinforcements to wipe his small unit out!

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/30/2012 1:14:05 PM >

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Post #: 14

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 12:52:56 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Ryujo hurts! That holds the mini-KB together early. Not sure what happened with the CAs but if you got those too, that's a big blow. Nice work.

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 15

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 1:03:18 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

Yes, both should be gone as well:
ay Time Surface Combat, near Singkawang at 56,87, Range 20,000 Yards

Japanese aircraft
no flights

Japanese aircraft losses
E13A1 Jake: 1 destroyed
F1M2 Pete: 1 destroyed

Japanese Ships
CA Myoko, Shell hits 5, heavy fires, heavy damage
CA Haguro, Shell hits 7, and is sunk
DD Kuroshio
DD Oyashio

Allied Ships
DD Van Ghent, Shell hits 1, on fire

_____________________________

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 16

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 1:47:02 PM

Teikoku Kaigun

Posts: 43
Joined: 3/23/2011
Status: offline

Thats suicide, so weak units in Singkawang when you have heavy units roaming around.
Srange place to find the CVL especially.

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 17

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 2:03:46 PM

JocMeister

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline

Nice work! Excellent start that will make him a lot more cautious I think!

(in reply to Teikoku Kaigun)

Post #: 18

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 4:59:40 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

yeah

As I've written in posting 13:

quote:

My basic principle in this game is to keep the initiative. He has it right now, but I'll try to force his game into my turns. For that, at least occasional small CV actions are essential!

I could retire Force Z to Cape Town, now - as long as it happens undetected. By my extremely aggressive use of that ships, I have forced him to play my game in the DEI. This turn allone should have slowed him down for many turns as long as the surface forces aren't destroyed. He must react by protecting every single invasion with heavy guns from now on.

Also, I will have two US CVs and a british CVL in the DEI in a couple of turns. The MKB he has left now will be inferior to that forces!

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Post #: 19

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 5:04:24 PM

HansBolter

Posts: 7704
Joined: 7/6/2006
From: United States
Status: offline

"colorful commentary regarding opponent deleted"

p.s. the Mighty Van Ghent was magnificent!

< Message edited by HansBolter -- 4/30/2012 10:54:39 PM >

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Hans

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Post #: 20

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 5:10:57 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

I really don't want to talk about that right now, and especially not here.
I am in a discussion with Hortlund right now via PM about how we are going to play and what we are expecting. Should this fail and we can't find a middle ground, I'll comment on it in length AND will give him the chance to present his side as well.
But talking behind someone's back (in a closed AAR) and telling everyone (as everyone can read this) just my side without any chance for him to comment realy is unacceptable in my book.

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/30/2012 5:12:49 PM >

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Post #: 21

RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 5:11:57 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

p.s. the Mighty Van Ghent was magnificent!

Absolutly!
I usually "expend" my Dutch DDs in surface combat, as they are too short legged to be of any use in my book. But this one has earned the right to be turned into a memorial!

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/30/2012 5:14:08 PM >

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 6:58:18 PM

koontz

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Thoguht the whole duch navy sucked 0

Apperntly not!

No nellys or betty to greet the Z force?

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 7:09:02 PM

Historiker

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Not that far south.

No navy necessarily sucks. In my WPO PBEM, the Chinese navy with some antique CLs strike fear into the hearts of my opponent

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 7:21:11 PM

koontz

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Just to be clear they are in range from saigon 17 hexes iirc

Nells has 18 and bettys 21.

Guess he didnt except your bold move!

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 7:24:47 PM

Historiker

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Sure they are, but I think I've never seen them fly at max range at all.
This move was bold? You should've seen my others...

I once sneaked a single R-Class BB to Brunei where it found 4CAs in Feb. 42. My opponent wasn't happy about that

As said: I think this phase as Allied player defenitly is my strong side of this game.

I try to use von Clausewitz's and Sun Zu's principles which work quite fine.

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 8:54:21 PM

Teikoku Kaigun

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I think you can get zeros and bettys in Miri by turn two. Mavis painting the area in both phases. Line of subs in front.
The CVL somewhere else.
The 2 Kongos and 4 CA should be together if moving there.
He must of assumed something and got very badly hurt.
Him expecting the worst you would have lost all very likely.
The IJN CAs and DDs fought well and bravely agaist the odds tough.

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 9:05:18 PM

Historiker

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They did.

My aggressive moves are easy to counter if you expect them. He didn't, so he suffered.

< Message edited by Historiker -- 4/30/2012 9:11:32 PM >

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 9:27:37 PM

Teikoku Kaigun

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BTW, was he covering an invasion or what and if so what did he land with?

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RE: Painfull Learning: Hortlund(J) vs. Historiker(A) - 4/30/2012 9:31:46 PM

Historiker

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Yes, he landed 170 AV in Sinkawang. The CVL was there for LR-CAP, the the CA seem to have been the surface protection. More than week regarding 3 GB CL, 2BB/BC and 2 Dutch CL within one day steaming range...

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