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Mersing Gambit - 5/3/2012 4:09:45 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1191
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline 		I'm re-starting my Japanese vs. AI stock scen. #2 game to capitalize on what I've learned doing the Jap economy.

I would like to try the "Mersing Gambit".

Does anyone feel this will break the AI?

Please, your opinions.

Nate

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RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/3/2012 4:35:17 PM   
armin


Posts: 58
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		Its absolutely ok. There are only two things that can make you a problem. No air cover for convoy and force Z.

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RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/3/2012 5:05:08 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		The Mersing Gambit alone won't break the AI, but it's one of the straws that will contribute to the collapse. 

By employing the Mersing Gambit, Japan can take Singapore in December or January, which then opens up India to invasion.

If your aim is to defeat the Allies as quickly as possible, or if your aim is to gain experience in the game, go for it.  But if your objective is a satisfying contest against the AI that simulates the real war, don't do it.

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RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/3/2012 5:15:50 PM   
mike scholl 1

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Mersing Gambit alone won't break the AI, but it's one of the straws that will contribute to the collapse. 


Be fair about it. If you are going to use the "Mersing Gambit", DO NOT give yourself "first turn surprise" (the troop convoys sailing South past Singora give away the game), and DO NOT give yourself "historic first turn" (allowing the Allies to react to the dead givaway of the troop convoys sailing South past Singora). Then have fun...

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RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/3/2012 5:51:17 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1191
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline 		All right!

NO historical first turn, NO first turn surprise, and be careful of other ahistoric moves.

Canoerebel, that advice wrecks my plan to take Palembang early. But I will have to live w/o Palembang early.

Thanks folks,
Nate

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RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/3/2012 7:35:16 PM   
armin


Posts: 58
Joined: 12/27/2010
Status: offline 		Best is for you to decide what objective you want. The AI is scripted so anythinking outside of the box will instantly kill it. Which is very possible becouse people dont want to do turns by real historical events so sooner or later you will do somethink intentionaly or not which will send it to oblivion. So just enjoy the game and make your own decisions.

I would advise you to try to play against human a small scenario like the battle of guadalcanal to see how stufff works. And even that is problematic as the game works on dice roll so its completly normal to make a carrier air battle in pacific thunderstorm or score sniper critical shots at 20k feet with 0 visibility.

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RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/4/2012 1:25:54 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1


quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

The Mersing Gambit alone won't break the AI, but it's one of the straws that will contribute to the collapse. 


Be fair about it. If you are going to use the "Mersing Gambit", DO NOT give yourself "first turn surprise" (the troop convoys sailing South past Singora give away the game), and DO NOT give yourself "historic first turn" (allowing the Allies to react to the dead givaway of the troop convoys sailing South past Singora). Then have fun...



Or, you could simply limit the first turn ending location of your Mersing invasion TF.

When I play against the AI, I set limits on how far into Allied territory I allow my first turn TFs to sail. In the Malaya theater, I don't let any TFs end up further than the line of hexes between Kuantan and Singkawang. In addition, I don't allow myself to land on W. Borneo until Dec 9th. When I do the Mersing gambit against the AI, I leave the TF in the vicinity of Groot Natoena for the first turn. Then I advance it to Mersing with heavy CAP and a strong escorting SCTF.

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Post #: 7
RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/4/2012 6:43:34 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		The Mersing gambit is an example, somewhat restrained, on what will break the AI.  It doesn't react well to deep penetrations into its lines.  I play the AI exclusively, and do not use the Mersing gambit in any of my games.  It makes it too easy. 

If you want the AI to hold together, you need to be more methodical.  Deep penetrations will cause it to go unstable and fling small force after small force against you that you can easily overcome.  It won't be much of a challenge, nor a very interesting game.

Here are some examples.

North Pacific. 

You can take Adak and then proceed to take all of the bases up to Anchorage in order.  The AI holds together pretty good with this.  It will come back at you at Anchorage with some pretty stout counter-invasion forces. 

However, if you go straight for Anchorage out of the gate, and then back fill to Adak, the AI will frequently throw small forces at you at Adak trying to take it back.  I never saw it attempt to re-take Anchorage, but then the piece-meal losses at Adak probably robbed it of the ability to do so.

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RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/4/2012 9:47:23 AM   
ilovestrategy


Posts: 3611
Joined: 6/11/2005
From: San Diego
Status: offline 		I googled the Mersing Gambit and came up with nothing. From what I'm reading here, I'm guessing it means sailing past Singapore on Day 1 for an objective farther East?

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RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/4/2012 10:50:22 AM   
Mike Solli


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Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline 		No, the Mersing Gambit is to take Mersing (just NE of SIngapore) in force then move west 1 hex to cut off the British/Indian forces to the north from Singapore. That way you can easily capture Singapore quite early.

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Post #: 10
RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/4/2012 4:52:49 PM   
nate25


Posts: 1191
Joined: 9/20/2011
From: Fishers Indiana
Status: offline 		Thanks.

Good points, every one of them.

I'll have time to mull them all over, as the first turn set-up takes forever.

I love this forum. So much knowledge here it's scary.

Nate

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Post #: 11
RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/5/2012 5:51:23 AM   
Kull


Posts: 2625
Joined: 7/3/2007
From: El Paso, TX
Status: offline 		From a simple role-playing perspective, as a Japanese commander you'd never have done that in real life (which is the rule I follow when playing the AI, and it makes for a much more satisfying experience). The Japanese knew that PoW and Repulse were right there in Singapore. No sane commander would ever have taken that risk. They were sweating bullets just going into Kota.

< Message edited by Kull -- 5/5/2012 5:52:59 AM >

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Post #: 12
RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/23/2014 12:56:24 AM   
Icedawg


Posts: 1610
Joined: 1/27/2006
From: Upstate New York
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

No, the Mersing Gambit is to take Mersing (just NE of SIngapore) in force then move west 1 hex to cut off the British/Indian forces to the north from Singapore. That way you can easily capture Singapore quite early.


Thread resurrection here.

I've been mulling over lots of stuff while my opponent is dealing with some health issues and the Mersing Gambit is one of them. Specifically, I was wondering what would be considered the latest time to reasonably try this move.

Dec 7th and 8th would be too early/gamey. After that, it would be a reasonable thing to try. But how much of a delay would be too much to make the move worth it? If you go extremely early, you're being gamey. If you go for it before you take Kuantan to provide air cover, you're inviting disaster. If you wait too long, the allies will be able to "Sir Robin" it back to Singapore, defeating the whole purpose of the gambit.

Any ideas on what' too late? Dec 10th? Dec 15th?

(in reply to Mike Solli)
Post #: 13
RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/23/2014 4:47:33 PM   
pontiouspilot


Posts: 1127
Joined: 7/27/2012
Status: offline 		An interesting corollary to Mersing is to use Japanese paras into any ungarrisoned cities, or for that matter non-cities too, on west coast of Malaya to cut the railroad/roads flowing back to Singapore. This worked for me in a PBEM game coupled with Mersing but until late Dec. Against a decent Allied player Mersing can be risky early on…..I have seen the string bags do more than a little damage!!

(in reply to Icedawg)
Post #: 14
RE: Mersing Gambit - 5/23/2014 8:40:22 PM   
Jorge_Stanbury


Posts: 4320
Joined: 2/29/2012
From: Toronto and Lima
Status: offline 		Playing against the AI:
- I used the 2 divisions available in the HI (4th and 21th, I believe) + supportiong troops. They arrived around the 20th to Mersing
- I also sent the 3 CVL/ CVE available (all except Taiyo) to support the invasion
- By that time; I usually have zeros in Singkawang and Kuching for additional support.




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Post #: 15
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