RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A)

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/3/2012 7:51:56 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Well, if China were really so easy and fast to conquer, the whole war wouldn't have happend. So while you played a good game, no doubt, you benefited from an unrealistic game, bad enemy tactics and the engine.

Even if you agree to what I propose, it doesn't mean you loose China in 44. You've pushed so far, why should it be significantly different later? Also, you benefit from all that ressources, oil and HI meanwhile.

Anyways, your descision.

Other proposion:
1. garrison every base with 4 times the requirement.
2. every unit leaving china must first be changed to restricted Kwangtun and after that to the free base to double the PP costs.

You are a hard one to negotiate with! So lets just say we were talking about Australia. What if I had conquered all industrial centers aside from Sydney at this point? Would we be having this conversation about holding back, creating higher garrisons, leaving a pocket there unmolested?

This is an imperfect game in the end. I haven't taken advantage of a cheat or a bug. I've simply focused more than was possible in real life and my opponent has been shall we say, unfocused in the same area. (Actually to be fair I think he simply was trying many different things and none of them worked due to the ground system and the bombing).

The same 'advantages' I've had from the game will be available to my opponent for the remainder of the game. And his forces will be much stronger. So should there be a leveling now, knowing this to be the case?

I will not pay double PPs, as the political system in Japan would most likely be very happy to send these troops to defend Burma and the DEI. I've already mentioned that I would be forced to 'garrison' China for most of the rest of the war with at least 8k troops if I like it or not. I simply can't buy out more than that before 45.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/3/2012 7:58:21 PM >

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 661

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/3/2012 9:25:33 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

I don't give a **** how you two handle it!

You asked, I made a suggestion.

China has so much forces in there, that taking it out changes the whole game, way more than a conquest of Australia could.

_____________________________

Without any doubt: I am the spawn of evil - and the Bavarian Beer Monster (BBM)!

There's only one bad word and that's taxes. If any other word is good enough for sailors; it's good enough for you. - Ron Swanson

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 662

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 9:37:42 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

I don't give a f*** how you two handle it!
You asked, I made a suggestion.

China has so much forces in there, that taking it out changes the whole game, way more than a conquest of Australia could.

After a bit of thought, I am realizing much of what you suggest could work for us. It is true that OZ and India do not have the strategic importance for the defense of Japan nor the amount of troops that China has. That is another reason why I chose to target the place. It's just frustrating when I see others rampaging across the map. We had no HRs about what could be taken and what couldn't, but neither of us saw this coming either.

In the interests of keeping this game going and more importantly keeping a good relationship with my opponent, I may have to compromise more than I would like. I have been thinking about your ideas from the earlier post.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Historiker

retreat from the inner 4 bases until 1/1/44.
He is allowed to come out, you mustn't go in until 44.

This way, you can benefit from a small front, the conquered industry and buy out a reasonable amount of troops. But as he is still there, you have to take care of the area and can't send troops out at will.

In 44, the overall situation should be deteriorating enough that either he has already opened a road to the "reservation", or that he can still advance despite china being taken out.

I think that's a fair deal for both sides.

I think this does most of what I want from China. It still allows me to defend Burma more successfully, and also to get some HI for a period of time.

-------------------------------

Jocke has let me know he's gotten a selection of PMs since my posts about this.

I�ve gotten 5 PMs during the night as a result of your AAR I believe. They are ranging from "You might as well quit now" to "keep on playing if you enjoy it".

While I appreciate that players are reading the AAR it worries me that they're reading, then PMing my opponent without ever even commenting on the posts.

Who are you?

If you write something, anything, it would make me more comfortable and make me think there won't be OPSEC issues now or later.

Historiker has had the courage and respect to at least post his thoughts, which both really helps me think about all of this and challenges me as well. That's the whole reason to write this in the first place. I want to learn from this game. I'd like to be a part of this community I've come to really enjoy. I've heard too many stories about PMs leading to the downfall of games. I have no problem at all with others communicating with my opponent if there is an established relationship here as well.

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/4/2012 9:38:08 AM >

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 663

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 9:45:47 AM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

Jocke has let me know he's gotten a selection of PMs since my posts about this.

I�ve gotten 5 PMs during the night as a result of your AAR I believe. They are ranging from "You might as well quit now" to "keep on playing if you enjoy it".

While I appreciate that players are reading the AAR it worries me that they're reading, then PMing my opponent without ever even commenting on the posts.

Recommending an opponent to quit? Really? I mean, did obvert cheat? Did he violate House Rules by intention and proudly writes about that?
That's disgusting!

< Message edited by Historiker -- 5/4/2012 9:55:39 AM >

_____________________________

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 664

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 1:03:55 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

I know I mentioned to both of you about installing the modified Pwhex files to impose stacking limits, but right now I would say that you should complete the game without them. Jocke will need to form his Allied "Death Stars' in India/Burma to have a chance. I want to see an AAR with Japan conquering China with stacking limits.

I was losing in China in my brief game vs Seille before he quit after KB got partially sunk in May 42. Those huge stacks plus over 300 bombers were killers.

Since last night when I posted the results of the prior turn in my AAR, I got 130 hits, but only 10 replies which were mainly Mike S and me. So there are lots of players that look at AARs as "guest." Some could send PMs that break Op security, but as a player myself, I would not disclose anything that effects foreknowledge like I know from reading yours for many weeks.

Another suggestion would be in line with the increased garrison requirements would be picking a third party to be able to monitor compliance. You would send the game file to this third party to ensure that China is well garrisoned and send a PM to Jocke to verify at a set rate of once per month or so. You both need to agree on this person. Not saying that you would cheat, but I would ask for this in Jocke's place.

Jocke may need to start an AAR to solicit advise on how to go forward with China out of the war. Many Allied players would be there to give feedback.

_____________________________

(in reply to Historiker)

Post #: 665

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 1:12:10 PM

Historiker

Posts: 4742
Joined: 7/4/2007
From: Deutschland
Status: offline

quote:

Since last night when I posted the results of the prior turn in my AAR, I got 130 hits, but only 10 replies which were mainly Mike S and me. So there are lots of players that look at AARs as "guest." Some could send PMs that break Op security, but as a player myself, I would not disclose anything that effects foreknowledge like I know from reading yours for many weeks.

Every opponent can log out and read an AAR.
I hope to have only opponents I can trust - and that they tell me when and who broke opsec by writing a PM to him!

_____________________________

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 666

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 1:25:09 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I know I mentioned to both of you about installing the modified Pwhex files to impose stacking limits, but right now I would say that you should complete the game without them. Jocke will need to form his Allied "Death Stars' in India/Burma to have a chance. I want to see an AAR with Japan conquering China with stacking limits.

We just never found the right time. We both like the idea. I agree though. Now would be too late maybe for the one.

quote:

Since last night when I posted the results of the prior turn in my AAR, I got 130 hits, but only 10 replies which were mainly Mike S and me. So there are lots of players that look at AARs as "guest." Some could send PMs that break Op security, but as a player myself, I would not disclose anything that effects foreknowledge like I know from reading yours for many weeks.

It's distressing that someone would suggest we end the game. That's equivalent to OPSEC issues really.

It's the people reading often and posting a few thoughts that I have no problem with. I think anyone who has seen the game develop and even been a part of it through questions or advice would want to see where it goes and also do understand why it is where it is.

quote:

Another suggestion would be in line with the increased garrison requirements would be picking a third party to be able to monitor compliance. You would send the game file to this third party to ensure that China is well garrisoned and send a PM to Jocke to verify at a set rate of once per month or so. You both need to agree on this person. Not saying that you would cheat, but I would ask for this in Jocke's place.

Jocke may need to start an AAR to solicit advise on how to go forward with China out of the war. Many Allied players would be there to give feedback.

I love the idea of Jocke starting an AAR. I think that would really help him realize he has a lot of options to look forward to here. Once Alfred chimes in a few times he'll surely have some positive options on the table.

As to the monitoring, I have no problem with it, but I don't think we need it. I'd like us to keep the trust we have had up to now. If we make a rule I will abide by it.

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 667

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 4:23:22 PM

SqzMyLemon

Posts: 4239
Joined: 10/30/2009
From: Alberta, Canada
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

While I appreciate that players are reading the AAR it worries me that they're reading, then PMing my opponent without ever even commenting on the posts.

If you write something, anything, it would make me more comfortable and make me think there won't be OPSEC issues now or later.

I am one such who PM'd your opponent obvert. Mine was a hang in there and continue to grind away. I mentioned I followed your AAR and posted to it and that I can't and won't offer him advice on what to do. I mentioned Op Sec and asked Joc if he minded if I sent you the same message so there'd be no question of a breach. However, I seem to be unable to access my sent PM's. So I will ask him if he could please forward the message to you as well. I've not posted here stating that intention yet as I was waiting to hear from Joc.

Essentially, I told him I'm in the same boat in my other PBEM and not to get discouraged. It means a harder go of it for him, but a challenge of this nature will improve his play being up against the wall so to speak.

I apologize for not disclosing this to you immediately after PM'ing Joc. I want to assure you, I in no way compromised anything about your tactics or anything you mention in your AAR other than that you and Joc were concerned how things were developing and discussing various HR's. I voiced my thoughts that the game is what it is and that he'd have a chance to turn things around as he grew stronger without needing to severely handicap either one of you with HR's that restrict one side or the other above what you already have.

I'll ask Joc to forward you my PM so you can see exactly what I wrote. Again, my apology for not posting here sooner.

Just for full disclosure on my part, here is the PM I sent in full I sent to Joc.

Hang in there!

Hi Joc,

I know you are in tough against obvert and about to lose China.
I just want to pass on I'm playing as the Allies for the first
time in a Scenario 2 game and in the same situation as you. My
opponent is going for autovictory and is throwing everything at
China, and I will eventually lose it by no later than July I
think. Then probably Australia is next. I've lost the Solomons,
New Caledonia, Fiji and as far as Pagp Pago and he's looking
likely to invade Alaska as well. I consider myself an
average/good player, but land combat is a strength. There's
nothing you can do against a skilled Japanese opponent if they
go all out for China. I know you are scenario 1, so it still
isn't a cake walk for the Japanese.

It just means we have to figure out other ways of hitting back.
It will be a tough go dealing with extra troops shipped out of
China, but at least it amounts to only 1 division a month, two
at best depending on their strength. They can't be everywhere
and there will be weak spots in the Japanese perimeter no matter
how good they do. Be patient, look for your chances and chip
away until you have the strength to hit back hard. I read both
AAR's and post in obvert's so I definitely can't/won't offer you
any specific advice.

Losing China sucks, but as long as you are having fun and enjoy
the challenge don't let it discourage you. My Japanese opponent
is a very aggressive and skilled player. I'm losing badly to
him, but I'm also learning tons about the game and how to
overcome tough situations. I advise the same to you. This will
be the best learning experience for you, and you will become a
better player for it, count on it.

Just a pep talk. It may be unnecessary, but just wanted to pass
on my thoughts. I don't think you need to tinker with a lot of
house rules or try and change things up to offset losing China.
It is what it is unfortunately. I understand you and obvert are
discussing things and have a pretty good relationship, and both
care about having a good game experience. I say hang in there,
it will be tough, but as long as you have fun and enjoy the
challenge, I wouldn't sweat losing China too much. It's your
first game and it will make payback for you that much sweeter
once you get rolling. Good luck the rest of the way!

Joseph

If you have no objections, I'd like to post a copy of this to
obvert. I feel more comfortable both of you getting the same
post so there is absolutely no question of foul play or offering
advice knowing your opponent's side as well. I just don't want
to see your game become one of handicapping either side because
of game design failures.

< Message edited by SqzMyLemon -- 5/4/2012 5:02:30 PM >

_____________________________

Luck is the residue of design - John Milton

Don't mistake lack of talent for genius - Peter Steele (Type O Negative)

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 668

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 5:09:31 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: SqzMyLemon

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

While I appreciate that players are reading the AAR it worries me that they're reading, then PMing my opponent without ever even commenting on the posts.

If you write something, anything, it would make me more comfortable and make me think there won't be OPSEC issues now or later.

I am one such who PM'd your opponent obvert. Mine was a hang in there and continue to grind away as long as you are enjoying the game. I mentioned I followed your AAR and posted to it and that I can't and won't offer him advice on what to do. I mentioned Op Sec and asked Joc if he minded if I sent you the same message so there'd be no question of a breach. However, I seem to be unable to access my sent PM's. So I will ask him if he could please forward the message to you as well. I've not posted here stating that intention yet as I was waiting to hear from Joc.

Essentially, I told him I'm in the same boat in my other PBEM and not to get discouraged. It means a harder go of it for him, but a challenge of this nature will improve his play being up against the wall so to speak.

You've been a consistent voice here and I always love to hear your thoughts. This is just what I mean. Thanks for the full disclosure.

And for the encouragement to him to keep it up. When I look at the AARs in 43-44 I feel like I'm the one who should need encouragement, but I can understand how tough it is to go through 42 as the Allies your first time, before you've experienced turning the corner and your hand turning into a claw moving all your toys around in the late war.

Speaking of toys, I wonder if you've posted pics of the models yet?

(in reply to SqzMyLemon)

Post #: 669

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 6:28:07 PM

Dan Nichols

Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline

If I was going to try and cheer Joc up some, I would point him at Greyjoys AAR. He lost China and most all of India before making a good come back. It's not easy, and not always fun, but it is entertaining.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 670

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 6:40:58 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

If I was going to try and cheer Joc up some, I would point him at Greyjoys AAR. He lost China and most all of India before making a good come back. It's not easy, and not always fun, but it is entertaining.

Exactly! I'm not even thinking about India.

(in reply to Dan Nichols)

Post #: 671

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/4/2012 6:59:14 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
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25 August 1942
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

subs: To start off RO-68 hits YMS-96 near Nadi and most likely all that's left are scattered pieces of the deck floating over the coral reefs.

Later I-23 is Glen-vectored in to a big convoy and hits xAP Illoisos leaving her on fire with heavy damage.

Allied ASW gets some revenge today though. They're getting better now. My patrols are moving farther offshore as a result.

Near Coal Harbor RO-33 takes a couple penetrating hits and will need to go back for repairs. Nothing too serious though.

RO-65 was hit near Sydney and is a bit worse off, with 57(35) float damage. It's now limping back to Tulagi.

So Pac: The KB enters restricted waters near the Solomons and all are on high alert. At least 4 reported hits on one S-boat today alone, as well as other attacks and hit reports throughout the Coral Sea. The Hiyo will meet the KB at Rabaul. Much of the air arm will be removed to various ports and a massive CAP (at least 100 KB zeros plus 42 Oscars) will be placed over Rabaul as ships will tend to damage from the last month of sailing around. Everything is under the five required for a Repair Ship, so it should be 7-10 days before all is fixed up.

China: The Chinese stack is sitting comfortably in Neikiang waiting on word from negotiations between the Chungking government and the Japanese high command. Japanese bombing continued and units raced off toward Kunming to protect the mountains pass from an approaching Chinese army.

Burma: Over Katha 16 Hurri IIc came in at 30,000 and met 5 Tojo and 10 Oscars (out of the 39 in base, the rest scrambling too late. I was resting them a bit to keep moral up). On the day the numbers evened out, with 8 Oscars lost and 8 IIc to both A to A and ops. Tojos did not lose a plane, but seemed to not engage as often either. Interesting. I'll check all of the relevant leader stats. I am still waiting to change out big Oscar groups.

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I would hate to see what it would look like for a torpedo to hit a boat like this!
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/5/2012 12:54:55 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 672

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/5/2012 12:52:11 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

26 August 1942
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

subs: Sinking sounds were heard during the turn and afterward an S-boat was reported sunk in the info report, hit by a 250kg bomb. This was probably the one that was reported hit 4 times a day or two ago.

One sub was sighted and attacked by the ASW TF traveling with the KB today. No hits.

So Pac: The KB enters the constricted waters South of Rabaul and will be at port tomorrow.

China: Negotiations continue. The small Northern Army will get another shot at the Chinese troops kicked out of Kienko tomorrow.

Tanks cross over the river into the space between Chungking and Neikiang and wipe out an HQ unit, the Jingcha War Area that was the only remaining force of the four units sighted there yesterday.

Burma: Things have calmed here lately. Almost enough Tojos in the pool to convert a 42 plane group. I might do a few cartwheels when that happens.
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Attachment (1)

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 673

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/5/2012 1:12:45 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

27 August 1942
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

subs: Today S-27 is attacked by the KB's ASW shield, but no hits again to the sub or the DDs.

So Pac: The KB makes it into the shelter of Rabaul harbor. Many ships will stand down to repair engine damage with the repair ship in port. Most of the KB CVs will be disbanded in port as some stay in the harbor ready both to keep the TF commanders and to keep more CAP in play. The fields at Rabaul will be maxed out with fighters from KB CVs. The Kates and some Vals will disperse to train and work on ASW around the Solomons and New Guinea area.

The Soryu will proceed immediately to Yokohama with 5 DD (ASW 20 total) to get the 7/42 refit. I'll send one CV of the 4 remaining to get their extra AA armament since Hiyo will now join the main force.

Burma: No news here.

China: Negotiations appear very close to a breakthrough. After many hard hours at the table, the Japanese delegation realizes it will have to give up something in order to achieve the Empire's long-term goals.

The attack near Kienko achieved a 1:1 and the troops are still in supply and not too fatigued, so the attack will go on tomorrow.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 77,41 (near Kienko)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 23779 troops, 212 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 696

Defending force 30294 troops, 399 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 514

Japanese adjusted assault: 511

Allied adjusted defense: 319

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1176 casualties reported
Squads: 4 destroyed, 88 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 14 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 6 (1 destroyed, 5 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
840 casualties reported
Squads: 44 destroyed, 55 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 4 disabled
Guns lost 18 (1 destroyed, 17 disabled)

Assaulting units:
3rd Division
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
11th Indpt Infantry Regiment
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment

Defending units:
95th Chinese Corps
8th Route Army
98th Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
42nd Chinese Corps
41st Chinese Corps
66th Chinese Corps
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Base Force

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by obvert -- 5/5/2012 1:13:14 PM >

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 674

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/5/2012 1:24:14 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

28 August 1942
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

subs: SS Grenadier almost takes out one of our fast AOs, the Toho Maru, on its way back to the DEI near Port Moresby. Luckily the torps were duds.

I-5 gets lined up for a shot at the big TF hit a few days ago near Raoul Island, but the escorts pick it up before it can fire a shot.

So Pac: A few tank Rgts arrived from the HI today that were bought out and will be placed on strategic locations such as Tulagi and another couple of undecided locations. I'd like to get them to places where they're likely to see combat early in the invasion cycle and where if conquered they can be wiped out to be repurchased back in Tokyo for another round a year later. A base force with CD guns is also on the way down to the Solomons.

Burma: No action.

China: The forces in the North force the Chinese into a retreat and take another 366 squads off of them. A good punctuation mark to this campaign should it be the last major battle in the area before a ceasefire comes into effect.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ground combat at 77,41 (near Kienko)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 22912 troops, 211 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 613

Defending force 29489 troops, 395 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 452

Japanese adjusted assault: 435

Allied adjusted defense: 217

Japanese assault odds: 2 to 1

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), disruption(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
629 casualties reported
Squads: 0 destroyed, 33 disabled
Non Combat: 0 destroyed, 1 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 5 disabled
Guns lost 5 (1 destroyed, 4 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
3749 casualties reported
Squads: 366 destroyed, 5 disabled
Non Combat: 454 destroyed, 0 disabled
Engineers: 12 destroyed, 3 disabled
Guns lost 66 (64 destroyed, 2 disabled)
Units retreated 10

Defeated Allied Units Retreating!

Assaulting units:
11th Indpt Infantry Regiment
13th Ind.Mixed Brigade
3rd Division
12th Indpt Infantry Regiment

Defending units:
42nd Chinese Corps
98th Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Cavalry Corps
8th Route Army
41st Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
66th Chinese Corps
95th Chinese Corps
3rd Prov Chinese Corps
3rd Chinese Base Force

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Attachment (1)

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 675

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/5/2012 1:29:42 PM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

Ceasefire Proposal: China
___________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Diplomatic Correspondence from the Japanese High Command: Tokyo

The Imperial Japanese Government hereby proposes a ceasefire in China effective immediately. All troops within the central plain of China surrounding the four cities of Chungking, Neikiang, Chengtu and Kienko will stand down and those outside the area will begin to withdraw board it. All air raids will cease in this area. The borders of the Chinese reserve are shown on the map below. Any industry, supply or fortifications left in these areas will pass to the Chinese government to use as they please. Chinese troops outside this area must immediately stand down and retreat inside its borders. (One small Chinese unit near Sian will be attacked until destroyed). The Cinese government may also maintain its control over the city of Kashgar.

This ceasefire will be in effect indefinitely or until Chinese troops violate the treaty by passing or attempting to pass into the Japanese Protectorate of China. No air raids will be launched so long as the Chinese army stays within these borders. The current treaty concerning strategic bombing in current and former Chinese territory will remain in effect indefinitely.

Should any Allied forces or any Chinese troops in exile march to relieve the Central Reservation and come into contact with the borders of the area or move within 40 miles of any Japanese Army forces maintaining the security of this border this treaty will become null and void. Should any Chinese forces within this border attempt to move against Japanese Army security forces on the border they will be bombarded and the treaty will be voided. Should any troops attempt to march from the city of Kashgar toward any other city in the Japanese Protectorate of China the treaty will be voided.

The Japanese Army will retain heavy garrisons throughout China and especially on the borders of the reservation as a deterrent to the influence of western colonial government forces. Air reconnaisence will be allowed to fly into and over the reservation area to ensure compliance with the treaty.

The Empire of Great Japan

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< Message edited by obvert -- 5/5/2012 2:24:43 PM >

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/5/2012 3:24:07 PM

Historiker

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Nice to see how many of my suggestions you use in your game.
And frightening, considering the fact that we'll face each other, soon

But protectorate throughout the war? Was that JocMeister's suggestion or your's?

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/5/2012 4:13:01 PM

obvert

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You do make good sense from time-to-time.

It's also that you're not afraid to challenge with your comments. I respond well to someone pointing out the other side of the coin, as you might guess from the name.

The more I got to thinking about it the more I realized that if he is tied up there with the amount of troops he now has, it will be tough to just feed them let alone try a breakout. I decided if he wanted to remain in there that would work for me as once I establish forts at the borders it would be painful for him to push out and better for my Chinese garrison troops to sit there at the edge of the reserve building.

The reserve is semi-permanent, but the JPC (Japanese Protectorate of China - all other areas of the former country of China) gives me a lot of free reign to still get some of the HI I would have had from Chungking by building up Sian and Changsha a bit more. It's still protected from strat bombing by our original HR and reaffirmed by this new treaty.

So it's really a trade of the possibility (and continuing threat) for the Allies of eventually reaching back into China and freeing the Chinese troops for a late push (as well as air-lifting out any he can buy and sending supply in) balanced by the relative freedom to control the economy of the JPC with near peacetime conditions (he could still take out my airfields or troops with 4E raids from India).

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 3:13:29 PM

obvert

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29 August 1942
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For some reason there is no combat report for this turn. I'll have to go with other information. Not that much is happening right now as we reorganize forces in China.

Japanese Protectorate of China: The KMT government in Chungking accepted the offer of a ceasefire.

Jocke said this was more than he'd hoped or thought to achieve through these negotiations. It was certainly more than I'd thought to give up. It just made sense after considering what I really want form the game. The key for me was preserving the HR on strategic bombing in the area formerly known as China. For Jocke it was making sure a good portion of the IJA troops stayed in China and that this was a theatre that still had to concern the Japanese High Command.

Both of us achieved those goals. A lot of troops will still be able to leave China, but the Central Reserve will contain almost a million troops, so there will be good sized forts built on the main border roads.

Right now troops are just moving around to get back to the correct side. One unit appeared out of thin air near Kunming! Not sure how long that's been hanging out up there or where it was trying to go. I'm moving to take Mengtze, so these will cross through the same territory but not fight. Interesting.

West Australia: There is stasis and a continuous reconing of each others positions in SW OZ. The rest of the second division for Carnarvon are loading on ships in Soerabaja after resting there for a bit. The Carnarvon airfield is size 7 with a JNAF air support base force and a small AF Coy, an engineer unit, several arty units and the two divisions. Exmouth is about to reach size 3 fields and has the Air Division HQ, so it will give torps to Carnarvon and Exmouth itself. A brigade will be sent to complement the Naval Guard unit here and there is an airfield construction hit as well.

Port Hedland, Derby, Broome and Wyndham will be built up enough for defensive purposes, to about level 3 fields. Broome will go to 4. The 48th division that took Darwin is lending it's engineers to help build up Katherine as a fortress here. Daly Waters seems easy to outflank and too close to the railroad line to fight effectively against the Allied tanks and brigades that will surely show up sooner or later. Katherine will at least lengthen the supply lines, make it tough to keep a big army going, especially if he tries to go off road.

The islands off coast will also be grabbed for future use. They could work to provide recon, naval search and outposts behind enemy lines later in the war. Plus, just more targets for him to close down and for fighters to operate periodically.

So Pac: Annoyingly, once some CV groups moved to other locations, those still on carriers automatically resized to fit them! So I got a 64 plane Val group! Don't need that just now. So they will be resized back down now. I had to go through and manually reset them all not to auto-resize later as well.

There is a definite shortage of IJN fighter pilots right now. Training is inching forward in spite of being in Tokyo with good air support and high leadership/inspiration group leaders. I've had to set up some float plane fighter training groups, which are progressing nicely. Instead of training sweep 100ft to finish off the defensive skills of these pilots I've decided to try out low nav bombing at 1000 to get the fighters better at dropped those little 60kg bombs on PTs and other small craft. Can't hurt as it pushes defensive skill as well.

Burma: Nothing.

Now that the bombers have nothing to do in the JPC they will all migrate to different areas of the map. Some to W OZ. Some to the DEI to do ASW work. Some to So Pac for ASW and Low Nav bombing. I'll even send one group to Cent Pac as there is a dearth of strike aircraft there now and the ASW crews also get trained in Low Nav skill, so could be useful in a pinch until Netties arrive should the Allies come in quickly to the Gilberts or the Marshalls.

Most will go to Burma. I will try to concentrate all of the new Helen IIa here at Toungou and at Mandalay. Eventually Taung Gi may also become a bomber base but it's only at level 2 (48%) now. About 4 groups will go right away. I'll also change out pilots, giving the extremely experienced 70 and above pilots a rest, keeping just one 80 exp pilot in each group. All of these have bombing skill in the mid-70s at least, and some in the 80s! I don't want them all grouped together in an offensive role. I'd rather have about half vets and half newly trained 50/70 pilots in the 4 groups in Burma. This should give me a pool of about 120 expert bomber pilots should I need to use them anywhere in the future. Some will also be sent to TRACOM.

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< Message edited by obvert -- 5/6/2012 3:15:18 PM >

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 5:24:58 PM

obvert

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30 August 1942
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subs: Quite a few subs are getting above 10 system with a few points engine damage. I'm sending a lot home for repair and re-working patrols. It's been a few months since setting up the new ones around OZ that were changed on the fly when Jocke went for Noumea.

Almost no Allied sub activity outside of the Coral Sea. A few are active near the HI, but only just around 5 total. What are the rest of them doing?

So Pac: All quiet now.

JPC: The 2nd Raiding Rgt takes Patung today and will now walk back around to meet the rest of the unit. This base and Mengtze were the last unconquered bases outside the Central reserve in the JPC.

Burma: At last a 42 plane group converts to Tojos! They're at Mandalay. Pilots for the fighters are being reorganized as well. Getting the vets out for R n R and some newbies in for experience.

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Although about 60-70 Lilys are still flying in ASW roles in the PI and DEI they are about to be phased out into training. As the Sally Ic units finally upgrade to Sally IIa these will take over the ASW role with the Helen Ia that were built. The Lily has put in useful if unspectacular service, and I'm glad I built a few extra of them.
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< Message edited by obvert -- 5/6/2012 5:25:29 PM >

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 5:42:34 PM

obvert

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31 August 1942
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subs: Skipjack shows up near Truk but the escorts spot it before shots are fired.

RO-60 continues the IJN tradition during this campaign of targeting the smallest and weakest ships in the Allied navies. This time it's our first Flower Class corvette kill, HMS Frittilary, hit with one torp and sinking sounds accompanying the next few seconds of the replay. Actually a very useful escort, so not a bad kill. I don't think a Japanese sub has hit one troop loaded ship and only 1-2 tankers during the almost 10 months of fighting.

Those two pieces of info are literally the ENTIRE combat report right now! I'm not used to this after seeing so much daily action in China. It does let me concentrate on the little stuff again, and I am reworking convoy routes and checking the economy. More on that soon.

No Pac: There are still a few important ships sitting in Adak trying to fix up system damage to have a better shot at making it to Yokohama. Shoho is about a week from finishing all possible repairs. She has 54 major float damage, so this is a precarious trip home. Many escorts plus the Kitakami and the Fuso will accompany her back.

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< Message edited by obvert -- 5/6/2012 5:43:46 PM >

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 6:17:15 PM

ny59giants

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Adak - A Naval HQ and an AR or two would speed up the repair process. Leave an AR there and have another be with the Escort TF on the way back just in case you have to pull into a nearby port for more repairs.

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 6:27:00 PM

obvert

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Adak - A Naval HQ and an AR or two would speed up the repair process. Leave an AR there and have another be with the Escort TF on the way back just in case you have to pull into a nearby port for more repairs.

I'm kicking myself that I didn't get another few AR converted soon enough for this. They're in process but won't be in time for this one. Lesson learned. But the Northern Fleet HQ has been helping a lot for a few weeks. I sent it out the day after the battle!

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 7:34:54 PM

ny59giants

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I'm almost a year ahead of you in my first game as Japan. Thankfully, I haven't had to learn some lessons the hard way. Both of us will make adjustments to some things next time around. I have a large Word document that I have used to make notes form various threads. Lots of "copy & paste" was done for it.

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 8:10:34 PM

obvert

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1 September 1942
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The A6M3a arrived today! I converted the A6M3 factories immediately and will make 145 to start off. This will be the mainstay of the IJN for the next year or more. This will give us more range and better high altitude ability. Still a fragile plane, but better. At least a bit superior to the F4F-4 and should rule the roost on the water until the Hellcat arrives.

All A6M2 factories have been off for two weeks as the pool is about 110 right now. While this fighter has won more than it's lost, we have lost more of them in 10 months than any other plane (at 482 right now).

subs: I-169 hits DMS Perry near Lord Howe Island with one of a two shot spread. Another escort/ASW ship down.

So Pac: Nothing moving.

Burma: A combined sweep of Hurri IIc and P-40E hit Katha today. The Oscar/Tojo combo worked wonders today and I'm trying to figure out which thing did the trick. I set the groups to 0 hex CAP. A radar equipped base force arrived two days ago. The CAP was layered with 12 Tojos on 50% at 31k and 42 Oscars on 50% at 15k.

For the day we shot down 7 Hurri IIc and 18 P-40E with NO LOSSES!!! I have to wonder if he neglected to pick a good group leader or the groups had low moral or some other setting on that side. The Oscars did most of the damage as well. So I guess there is hope in Burma, for now.

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< Message edited by obvert -- 5/7/2012 1:50:18 PM >

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Post #: 685

RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 9:15:43 PM

obvert

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Unit Updates
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It's been another 2 months in game since I've mentioned these particular units. Time for an update while the action is fairly quiet.

After resizing the screen on my Tracker I realized there were a few buttons I'd not seen before. Doh! The 'History' button is particularly useful.

14th Tank Regiment

The unit has been all over the place. From Malaya to Burma, up the mountain road to Kunming, over into China and into the heart of the KMT. After the ceasefire in China it's currently heading back down to Burma.

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It's interesting how it's been up and back down in experience. I suppose from reinforcements arriving.

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< Message edited by obvert -- 5/6/2012 9:18:43 PM >

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 9:33:21 PM

obvert

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Tainan Ku S-1
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Quieter days have come for these aces. Some great pilots have been lost and now the group sits over the oil at Magwe like a protective bird on eggs. Here is the history and pilot information follows.

Soon, once more trained pilots become available, the many TRACOM able pilots will be moved out and a better balance achieved in the group. This will get A6M3a before any other groups.

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Most of the 147 kills were achieved in the first 2 months of the war. Since then the group has less than 30.

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/6/2012 9:37:20 PM

obvert

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Tainan Ku S-1
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Pilots: Many extremely high experience pilots have been lost from the group. I fear Lightnings will sweep before I can reorganize the group and get some of the best out.

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< Message edited by obvert -- 5/6/2012 9:38:04 PM >

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/7/2012 12:51:55 PM

obvert

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Ship Production
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I'm short a bunch of Naval Shipyard points. It's still less than the cost of Musashi, so I'm contemplating continuing on at this deficit until Musashi arrives. How will this negatively impact the accelerated CVs and other ships on normal build? I've tried turning off a bunch of subs due in 44 but it seems not to change the numbers. I admit freely that I don't get it.

For the Merchant ships I have a small surplus and have some of the shipyards turned off. I will continue to stop individual ships depending on their usefulness. I'll probably eventually build a bunch of them later anyway, as neither of us care about victory points and it's a lot less unpleasant when the Allied subs take out an xAKL than a Kyushu transport or a Tonan Whaler. By flooding certain important regions with xAKL resource convoys there are more of these relatively worthless ships to hit than there are valuable ones. Especially around Truk this has worked very well. Gets the PB crews a few attacks and experience gain also. All in preparation for when the torps actually work, and when this strategy may have to be altered.

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< Message edited by obvert -- 5/7/2012 1:08:54 PM >

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RE: Wild Sheep's Chase - obvert (J) vs JocMeister (A) - 5/7/2012 1:40:43 PM

obvert

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2 September 1942
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subs: Herring is sighted by the escort of a CS convoy near Aogashima and dives without incident.

Skipjack duds on an xAKL near Truk.

Pollack shows up East of Hokkaido and duds on a small TK carrying oil from Sapporo. This will not do.

One of the Kate groups doing ASW here now has its arc flipped around and another 27 plane IJAAF bomber group released form China will move in once it downgrades to Lilys. I'm playing with flipping many planes around to get the right ones in the right places. Lilys will only be active until the Helen IIa can fill out the Sally Ic groups.

No Pac: I set A6M2s on naval attack 1000ft to hit the widely ranging ASW YP and SC TF he's been using out of Kodiak. Unfortunately they were too close to Kodiak and 8 Hurricane XIIb showed up overhead. In the first morning attack the zeros got away unscathed, but in the afternoon the Hurris were ready and I lost 3 planes. Only 1 pilot KIA which is a boon, though.

Due to the distances involved up here, I've changed my mind and given the first A6M3a planes to the IJN fighter groups in the Aleutians. This could give the range to sweep Kodiak with about 30 planes.

Burma: All quiet again. I will get ready and make a test raid soon, probably at Chittagong. Not so much to hit anything important, but to sweep with Tojos, test my tactics and settings and serve notice that there will be a struggle here soon.

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