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To Use Command Control or Not?

 
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To Use Command Control or Not? - 1/20/2001 9:58:00 AM   
KG Erwin


Posts: 8981
Joined: 7/25/2000
From: Cross Lanes WV USA
Status: offline 		I've tried various scenarios and campaign games with command control on and off. I don't know about you, but I prefer the CC switch to be OFF. How do the rest of you play this? Have any of you really mastered the Command Control feature? How has it worked for you in practice? As an addendum, has there been a good primer done on using command control, apart from the SPWaW manual? If not, then why not? [This message has been edited by KG Erwin (edited January 19, 2001).]

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Post #: 1
- 1/20/2001 11:08:00 AM   
Drake

 

Posts: 178
Joined: 9/4/2000
From: Kingston, Canada
Status: offline 		I've tried various scenarios and campaign games with command control on and off. I don't know about you, but I prefer the CC switch to be OFF. How do the rest of you play this? I play most Battles with it on, The only time I turn it off is when im playing someone who dont like to have it on. Have any of you really mastered the Command Control feature? Most of the time I dont even take notice that its on or off becouse im so use to it, I always ends up useing tactics and formations that work with it all the time anyway. How has it worked for you in practice? I always find it interesting becouse now and again I will end up with a unit or more that I cant move and I got to change my stratigy for the battle becouse of it. I finds C&C make you more flixable in the long run. As an addendum, has there been a good primer done on using command control, apart from the SPWaW manual? Not that I know of. If not, then why not? Gess no one got around to it yet

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(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 2
- 1/20/2001 11:34:00 AM   
Don

 

Posts: 810
Joined: 7/12/2000
From: Elk Grove, CA (near Sacramento)
Status: offline 		Well, as for me I don't use it. Of course I don't even have time to play for fun anymore, and all of my "play" lately has been play-testing scenarios, which usually call for C&C to be off anyway. Drake, I got the idea to do a tutorial that's more advanced than the one with the game, but the response has been so good that I'm now thinking of doing a series of them, each on one subject, like arty or C&C. Since I don't know much about C&C I'll need someone who does know it to help me out. Know anybody that could help? Don

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Don "Sapper" Llewellyn

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 3
- 1/20/2001 12:26:00 PM   
Cona

 

Posts: 137
Joined: 9/9/2000
From: Penco, Chile
Status: offline 		I've never set C&C OFF so i can't tell but i would like to see that units left out of C&C could still move al least and no more than one hex in any direction. Saludos a todos, Cona.

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"War is much too serious to be entrusted to the military." - Tallyrand

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 4
- 1/20/2001 2:02:00 PM   
Raindem

 

Posts: 696
Joined: 7/15/2000
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I prefer it to be on, since it adds to the challenge and realism. The only time I turn it off is when I'm using barges to conduct a river crossing, because they always seem to get "stuck" on the other side without orders and out of contact.

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Grab them by the balls. Their hearts and minds will follow.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 5
- 1/20/2001 2:38:00 PM   
AmmoSgt

 

Posts: 1002
Joined: 10/21/2000
From: Redstone Arsenal Al
Status: offline 		I play with it set to OFF never could quite figure out how to get it to work ..probably missed something simple ..I do remember that the communcation distances wheni tried it seemed to short to me ( like i would know about WW2 commo distance ) I was in the C3 army and had commo gear to both use and trip over and spares for both ... I am definately looking forward to any tutorial on this though ...

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"For Americans war is almost all of the time a nuisance, and military skill is a luxury like Mah-jongg. But when the issue is brought home to them, war becomes as important, for the necessary periods, as business or sport. And it is hard to decide which

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 6
- 1/20/2001 4:22:00 PM   
alarpe

 

Posts: 6
Joined: 1/14/2001
Status: offline 		I like to play with command control on. It makes a more challenging play. I don't know about realism but I like that I have to plan forward and stick to it. When I started (well I think I am still a newbie) I played few games with cc off because I didn't know how it worked. When I read the manual I turned it on and have enjoyed the challenge... On a side note I'd like to say that I play mostly generated campaigns and not designed scenarios. It may be different on scenarios.

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(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 7
- 1/20/2001 6:17:00 PM   
ZinZan

 

Posts: 113
Joined: 12/9/2000
From: Leicester, England
Status: offline 		I play with C&C ON, but all the Email games (3, first 1's I played so far) I have at the moment have it off. I must admit that playing with it off makes the game a LOT easier as you don't have to worry about unit integrity and preplanning so much. on the whole I would prefer to play with it ON in future as it makes the game much more of a challenge. (and in relation to 2 of the Email games I'm now playing, might give me a chance to win ) ------------------ peter@myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk http://www.myhelliconia.freeserve.co.uk

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ZinZan <br/> Peace is an extension of war by political means. Plenty of elbow room is pleasanter - and much safer. <br/> Lazarus Long, Time Enough For Love by Robert Heinlein.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 8
- 1/20/2001 9:11:00 PM   
ruxius

 

Posts: 909
Joined: 5/5/2000
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		I would prefer to play with it at off but only for speeding the battle..I understand this feature creats an idea of 'platoon' more close to reality and so I always use it on.. Nevertheless I found that sometimes it's excessive as for instance for trucks..or ammo units... 1)while advancing , when you have to place AA-section at a specific distance from each other (to avoid enemy's air strikes double effective ) you feel the lack of commmand points in a way that is not real..I mean that shuold be normal to say c0)37mm-AA go there and c1) stay here.. but splitting a truck sec [truck0 go with c0)and truck1 stay with c1) ] involves too many points and I am not talking about placing them at the opposite edges of the map ! second situation 2) two trucks loaded are advancing..the second truck is destroyed and you want to use the first which is a little more forward to go back and take the load of the destroyed..you have to wait for commands points.. I would suggest to give in the algorythm that calculates the brighter hex (that shows where you can go without spending C-points ) also some hexes in the rear of the unit..so she can also go back if she likes..suppport units like trucks will become more useful.. Bye These are the only negative aspects I found in C&C..except that I like it very much !

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Italian Soldier,German Discipline!

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 9
- 1/20/2001 9:14:00 PM   
ruxius

 

Posts: 909
Joined: 5/5/2000
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		I would prefer to play with it at off but only for speeding the battle..I understand this feature creats an idea of 'platoon' more close to reality and so I always use it on.. Nevertheless I found that sometimes it's excessive as for instance for trucks..or ammo units... 1)while advancing , when you have to place AA-section at a specific distance from each other (to avoid enemy's air strikes double effective ) you feel the lack of commmand points in a way that is not real..I mean that shuold be normal to say c0)37mm-AA go there and c1) stay here.. but splitting a truck sec [truck0 go with c0)and truck1 stay with c1) ] involves too many points and I am not talking about placing them at the opposite edges of the map ! second situation 2) two trucks loaded are advancing..the second truck is destroyed and you want to use the first which is a little more forward to go back and take the load of the destroyed..you have to wait for commands points.. I would suggest to give in the algorythm that calculates the brighter hex (that shows where you can go without spending C-points ) also some hexes in the rear of the unit..so she can also go back if she likes..suppport units like trucks will become more useful.. Bye These are the only negative aspects I found in C&C..except that I like it very much !

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Italian Soldier,German Discipline!

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 10
- 1/20/2001 9:15:00 PM   
ruxius

 

Posts: 909
Joined: 5/5/2000
From: ITALY
Status: offline 		I would prefer to play with it at off but only for speeding the battle..I understand this feature creats an idea of 'platoon' more close to reality and so I always use it on.. Nevertheless I found that sometimes it's excessive as for instance for trucks..or ammo units... 1)while advancing , when you have to place AA-section at a specific distance from each other (to avoid enemy's air strikes double effective ) you feel the lack of commmand points in a way that is not real..I mean that shuold be normal to say c0)37mm-AA go there and c1) stay here.. but splitting a truck sec [truck0 go with c0)and truck1 stay with c1) ] involves too many points and I am not talking about placing them at the opposite edges of the map ! second situation 2) two trucks loaded are advancing..the second truck is destroyed and you want to use the first which is a little more forward to go back and take the load of the destroyed..you have to wait for commands points.. I would suggest to give in the algorythm that calculates the brighter hex (that shows where you can go without spending C-points ) also some hexes in the rear of the unit..so she can also go back if she likes..suppport units like trucks will become more useful.. Bye These are the only negative aspects I found in C&C..except that I like it very much !

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Italian Soldier,German Discipline!

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 11
- 1/21/2001 12:23:00 AM   
Fredde

 

Posts: 498
Joined: 6/7/2000
From: Goteborg, Sweden
Status: offline 		I always play with C&C on. Much more challenging, and more realistic in my opinion.. more planning ahead needed and the platoons need to stick together. I believe I have mastered it quite well, it's really not that tough as long you set your objectives in a good way.

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"If infantry is the Queen of the battlefield, artillery is her backbone", Jukka L. Mäkelä about the Finnish victory at Ihantala.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 12
- 1/21/2001 2:15:00 AM   
rtr

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Liverpool UK
Status: offline 		Hi, C and C on - always, even when the scenario is not designed for it. I think the lack of enthusiasm for SP3 meant that most Sp'ers never got use to the C and C system. The CP allowance in SP3 was a lot more generous, the Germans always seem to have Cps to spare. The Victors with it on is hella tough:-) Regards rtr

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Later Rob Reid

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 13
- 1/21/2001 2:30:00 AM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		Almost always on unless either the scenerio designer suggests it should be off (usually due to the units being spread out in less orderly fashion) or in the case of some of the ultra larger scenerios in order to save time and stress Good example for me were the epic 'Road to Berlin' series. They were pretty huge scenerios but more so, had the largest artillery concentrations i'd ever played with (and with limited ammo OFF to simm the supply situation!) I found the CC limitations on assigning artillery to be draining and very time consuming as each FO could only assign a small fraction of the artillery, then i'd have to hunt down the next one and repeat the process and so on and so on. heh, as it was even with CC off and the msg delay set to 0 the battles each took from half a day to a whole day to complete! but normally i play with it on. Yeah, it can be frustrating at times and has its flaws but as others have mentioned, it does force you to treat your units a tad bit more realistically.....especially if radios are in short supply!

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(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 14
- 1/21/2001 10:27:00 AM   
Drex

 

Posts: 2524
Joined: 9/13/2000
From: Chico,california
Status: offline 		i usually play with C&C off, but I believe in Jungle scenarios it should be on to simulate the isolation the unit would feel if separated from its HQ unit, and of course the penalties that come with isolation. I admit that I need a course in C&C play. It is not that easy to use.Perhaps that's why most of us don't use it.

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quote:

Col Saito: "Don't speak to me of rules! This is war! It is not a game of cricket!"

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 15
- 1/21/2001 8:10:00 PM   
Anatoly Chekov

 

Posts: 7
Joined: 12/4/2000
From: UK
Status: offline 		I usually play with in ON. I designed my "Nestegg" scenario with it ON for testing and adjusted the balance of the forces accordingly. However, in an email game, it was accidently set to OFF. It does make an amazing difference. In the orginal I could never get all the Brit forces off the beach before the end of the game (25 turns). Now I find myself with a couple of companies of fired up troops with nowhere to go once they've taken their objectives. (They've got their towels out and are sunbathing now). I used Commandos for the balance of the invasion and they don't seem to be effected by C2 anyway. I've just finished "Utah to the Rhine" with a campaign score of 43 and a Decisive Victory with C2 OFF. I think I will try it again with C2 ON once I have finished the "Victors" with C2 OFF. Has anyone finished that brillaint campaign with it ON?

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(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 16
- 1/21/2001 9:20:00 PM   
Peregrine Falcon

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 9/8/2000
From: Finland
Status: offline 		I have played all scenarios and campaigns with C&C off so far, but now I am starting my first PBEM game with C&C on. (Tunisia 1943, Germany vs. Britain) Well see how it goes... I think C&C is quite neat invention to Steel Panthers. Although it is not fully realistic, it gives you some real-life restrictions as how you move and fight with your forces....

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--Peregrine Falcon--

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 17
- 1/22/2001 6:40:00 AM   
rtr

 

Posts: 26
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Liverpool UK
Status: offline 		Hi, I have finished the Victors hard with C and C on. I drew 3 games, 2 marginals and 1 decisive. Tough. Regards rtr

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Later Rob Reid

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 18
- 1/23/2001 12:16:00 AM   
David F. Wall

 

Posts: 158
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: Waltham, MA, USA
Status: offline 		I always play with it on, because it isn't all that different from the way I played the SP games without it. I always used to move platoons and so forth together because it helped me keep track of things in big scenarios. The biggest irritation I find with it is in setup, as the default objectives supplied for units are almost never convenient, but that's the way the cookie crumbles. I also find it somewhat annoying that if you give a unit an objective, it's often very difficult to give them another one once they've reached it, but the war biz is like that, though.

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Post #: 19
- 1/23/2001 1:30:00 AM   
Larry Holt

 

Posts: 1969
Joined: 3/31/2000
From: Atlanta, GA 30068
Status: offline 		OK question for you C&C on experts. Problem: I'd have one tank and one infantry unit with one leader each. I'd like to cross attach them so that one tank can go with the infantry and take its orders from the infantry leader and replace it with one infantry squad in the tank platoon. Question: During the deployment phase can I attach forces and have this occur during the battle? Any pros or cons concerning this type of cross attaching versus keeping units "pure" and just having the whole tank and infantry platoons stay together? I'm going to put this in the unity of command and other sections in the SPWAW Tactics guide I'm writing. ------------------ An old soldier but not yet a faded one. OK, maybe just a bit faded.

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Never take counsel of your fears.

(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 20
- 1/23/2001 1:55:00 AM   
panda124c

 

Posts: 1692
Joined: 5/23/2000
From: Houston, TX, USA
Status: offline
quote:

Originally posted by Larry Holt: OK question for you C&C on experts. Problem: I'd have one tank and one infantry unit with one leader each. I'd like to cross attach them so that one tank can go with the infantry and take its orders from the infantry leader and replace it with one infantry squad in the tank platoon. Question: During the deployment phase can I attach forces and have this occur during the battle? Any pros or cons concerning this type of cross attaching versus keeping units "pure" and just having the whole tank and infantry platoons stay together? I'm going to put this in the unity of command and other sections in the SPWAW Tactics guide I'm writing.
I have played with C&C on and off. With C&C on always by an extra FO so you don't run out of orders. It's bad enough to have guns out of communications but to add to that a lack of orders to call in fire. As for cross attaching, I have found that buying a section of AT guns and a section of tow vehicals then cross attaching give great flexability. You end up with two units each consisting of a gun and a transport. The only problem with cross attaching is you have to remember to leave at the least one vehical/man in each unit so you do not lose the unit because there is no one attached to it. It would be nice if you could keep empty units for latter assigment.

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Post #: 21
- 1/23/2001 5:20:00 AM   
BA Evans

 

Posts: 250
Joined: 5/25/2000
From: USA
Status: offline 		C&C = OFF

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(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 22
- 1/24/2001 12:44:00 AM   
ursus

 

Posts: 51
Joined: 12/5/2000
From: Oregon
Status: offline 		Can someone fill me in on "attaching" units, i am unfamiliar with this in the game and how do you do it?

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(in reply to KG Erwin)
Post #: 23
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