RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> After Action Reports >> RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A)

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 1:47:35 AM

Mike Solli

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My my, such good arguments, all three of you.

Let's see. GZ - Good idea, but the only issue with the 5 AD is that they suck at naval attack. If Ted comes this way, it'll be in ships. I won't be able to stop him on the ground, only slow him a bit there. It'll be killing ships that stops him.

NYG - you're spot on, as always. Your argument is the reason I alway have hit N Australia in the past. Ted knows my preferences. That's why I'm minus the Hiryu right now. I fear a drawn out battle tying up a good chunk of my ground forces needed to defend the SRA. Still, it's the obvious choice to secure the SRA.

CB - I suspect I used the wrong term. What I meant by recon-in-force was to take the island temporarily, then withdraw. If you leave forces there too long, it becomes a POW camp. I need those divisions for the future. It does sound like a lot of fun. I was thinking the invasion force would be 5-6 divisions and some armor and artillery. MKB could hang out to the SW for support. Unfortunately, it's just out of Nettie range of Pt. Blair. It's not really a game winner, but it definitely would be fun and different.

At any rate, nothing happens until I take Batavia, because two of the divisions would be the divisions currently taking Java. Still time to think about it.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 3:20:13 AM

ny59giants

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The easy part of playing Japan is coming to a close in the next few months. You have less than 1/2 month worth of the "Invasion Bonus" so unless the forces are prepped and loaded right now, I don't see you going anyplace soon. Your style is very methodical, but you now have to go outside your comfort zone to a certain degree and find a place that you force him to fight with his air force. Like I mentioned before about the Allies, especially the Americans, have enough pilots, its NOT having enough airframes. You MUST force him into a battle of attrition in the air. If not, he can sit back and rise up at various times to fight you briefly in overwhelming numbers, then hide and continue to train up his forces.

Invading Ceylon will be a place that will force the issue, but it may not be long term enough as he will fortify the coast and send in his subs to interdict your re-supply efforts.

Aleutians is too narrow a front and "Ms Weather" is a fickle mistress, especially up here where operations are at her mercy.

The west and east coast of Australia seem to be the best place for this to happen. You need to bleed him here for the rest of '42 while you build up behind. The India/Burma front cannot be ignored, but it is too easy for him to pull back outside of escort range of the Zero to train while his infantry and large AA units make it costly for you.

Choose wisely, my young Jedi.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 3:42:08 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

I would like to move on Imphal as a Phase II objective, but we shall see if that is practical.

I would think about marching into China from Burma and then linking up with your forces in China. Make him rely solely on the supply generated in China.

quote:

Right now I�m just building my outer crust (infantry and forts). I have not done anything other than the historical expansion. I�m thinking of taking Baker Island (currently unoccupied) just as an additional potential target for Ted. If he did attack it, it would just cost him more time. If I were the Allied player and my opponent took Baker, I�d just ignore it or use it for bombing practice.

Taking Baker and Canton would open up the possibility of raiding his SLOC between the USA and South Pacific/NZ/Oz. It would be easier to slip carriers, SC TF, and even subs into that area.

Looking at future objectives, the questions comes to you putting your hat on as the Allies. You focus a lot on the Japanese logistics and their economy. What can you do to disrupt the flow from the USA to others places on the map?? Since you allow bombing of industry right now as Magwe is slowly being bombed back to the stone age, how do you plan to protect your assets?? Northern Australia and even over to Perth area might keep him away form the critically important SRA even longer. The Central and South Pacific do nothing except push his transports further south.

Good thoughts in general, but N. Australia as a 'also ran' is increasingly difficult. Many Allied players are waiting for this. Combined with the uber B17/B24 armada's effects on ground troops in the open in N. Australia (it's ALL in the open practically), this makes for an expensive barrier to the SRA. It may not be necessary or even worth it if you opponent opposes you with everything at his disposal. The IJ can scarcely afford to get bogged down here in April 1942.

Witness the pending annihilation of the IJ in N. Australia in Sprior/Mandrake's AAR as exhibit one. Exhibit two is my own abortive 2x2 PBEM with USS Mike and AW1Steve. My troops (I played as IJA) were butchered by repeated waves of (unescorted) B17s in the open. It was a real dog's breakfast trying to extricate them too.

This is another argument for Ceylon. Limited ability of Allies to reinforce or defend, limited number of opponents present to defend in the first place, it forces your opponent to redeploy in defensive formations (or risk a move directly onto Bombay if he fails to do so) and it outright kills some enemy units. It's a limited offensive, sure, but it's a way to hurt 'em for comparatively limited downside.

And it's also unexpected...

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 3:49:58 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

The west and east coast of Australia seem to be the best place for this to happen. You need to bleed him here for the rest of '42 while you build up behind. The India/Burma front cannot be ignored, but it is too easy for him to pull back outside of escort range of the Zero to train while his infantry and large AA units make it costly for you.

In April 1942, the IJAAF inventory is not up to the task of dealing with waves of B17s, ny59giants. I don't know about scenario 2, but I've yet to see a successful long-term position in eastern Australia in scenario 1.

There would be chronic blood loss, but who's bleeding who?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 4:05:37 AM

ny59giants

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I'm one of the few players that has a HR against using 4e bombers below 10k and they cannot bomb troops. IRL, they were seldom used in this role. If allowed to in AE, it will be almost impossible for Japan to resist. In your game CB, you are steadily destroying the Japanese forces wherever you send the B-17/24s.

I will keep this HR in any future game, regardless of the side I play. Playing this way probably biases the way I view the game and may make some of my observation incorrect.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 4:27:11 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants
In your game CB, you are steadily destroying the Japanese forces wherever you send the B-17/24s.

Hi ny59giants. I didn't understand this comment. As I only play the Japanese, I don't have the opportunity to send the B17s anywhere. Were you thinking that I was playing the Allies?

ETA: Given the opportunity to send all B17s and B24s somewhere, I know where I would choose to send them. To hell!

BANZAI!

< Message edited by Chickenboy -- 5/18/2012 4:33:40 AM >

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 4:28:07 AM

Chickenboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I'm one of the few players that has a HR against using 4e bombers below 10k and they cannot bomb troops. IRL, they were seldom used in this role. If allowed to in AE, it will be almost impossible for Japan to resist. In your game CB, you are steadily destroying the Japanese forces wherever you send the B-17/24s.

I will keep this HR in any future game, regardless of the side I play. Playing this way probably biases the way I view the game and may make some of my observation incorrect.

Anyways, that HR is a potential game changer. It puts a lot of things back on the table and changes my mind about a lot of things. Mike Solli-do you have such a HR?

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 10:37:08 AM

Mike Solli

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To quickly answer the last question in your little ping pong match - The only HR involving bombers is the inability of either side to bomb infrastructure in China. Other than that, all's fair....

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 10:46:00 AM

Mike Solli

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A little bit more info - I believe he's lost exactly 2 B-17Es. He's got some full B-17 squadrons out there somewhere. I've seen hide nor hair of them so far. I'm working on getting Tojos early but so far none of the R&D factories are completely repaired. *Sigh*

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/18/2012 11:15:17 PM

Wirraway_Ace

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Mike,

as a retired Army Logistician, your AARs always bring a smile to my face.

My thoughts:

Ceylon is a good operational objective. It deprives the RN of its last main fleet base in the IO, rendering it nearly impotent. This reduces significantly his ability to interdict your SLOCs to Burma. You will need to ship in supply once the RAF wrecks your industry there and heavily reinforce towards the end of 42. Allied CVs can also raid Palembang using Celyon as a base.

Northern OZ has very little going for it unless it is part of a massive effort to isolate OZ. Aussie armour (when trained and upgraded) and the 5th AF will handly wreck what ever you put there without delaying his ability to invade the southern SRA a day unless you are simultanously cutting off the flow of fuel and reinforcement through Sydney and Perth. I frankly think this is beyond Japan's capabilities against a solid Allied opponent.

A deep thrust into SOPAC is very logistically challenging, but it can often bring the US CVs and 4Es into exposed positions. If you can estabilsh a strong forward base with plenty of fuel, ARs, AKEs and ADs at, say Tulagi and buildup airfields at Lugenville and Noumea, a threatened invasion of Fiji can bring the Allied key assets into striking range. Anytime he masses his 4Es in a coastal hex, he puts them at significant risk. The trick, of course, is that the combined fleet is exposed along with all the tankers it takes to support an operation in SOPAC.

CENPAC is too vast to make much difference.

NORPAC is a side show.

Depending on how the war has gone to date in China, the Southern Army divisions available after all the phase I objectives have been taken can many times tip the balance dramatically in favor of Japan--if combined with massed air power and a very large infusion of supply.

Summary: Only a massive operation in SOPAC or a strategic pivot on China offer the chance of strategic success (defined as crippling the US CVs and 4Es or freeing up much of the Army in China). That being said, both are risky. Ceylon offers the chance for achieving an operational objective that will slow SEACs eventual counterattack.

mike

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 12:41:37 AM

Rkuzava_slith

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As a definite newcomer to the game, but a long time war gamer ....my question would be WHY does Japan have to make any of these bold moves at all in '42? Rather than exposing your forces to potential destruction in NOPAC, Oz, or India...could you not just sit tight with the SRA, and overload your defenses in the first and second lines of defense?

Granted I have only played as the Allies vs. AI...but reading alot of AARs shows me that almost without fail, when Japan overextends itself, it always comes back to get bit in the ass.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 12:57:12 AM

Mike Solli

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Mike, a retired army logistician, eh? I'm a soon to be retired army guard logistician. I've also recently applied to the DLA as a logistician. I've gotten through the first hurdle and am waiting to see if I get an interview. I'm currently a government contractor supporting the DLA. Small world.

Anyway, that was a very eloquent and convincing discussion. A few of my thoughts. (This may answer some of your questions Tachyon68.) Any expansion beyond the historical is purely temporary. If I go to N. Australia, 6-8 months would be tops and then I'd most likely pull out. I just want to delay the Allied bombing of the Southern SRA for a bit. The Aleutians is the same, just a delay for a time, then leave some small detachments to make him actually invade and maybe attempt an ambush. My thoughts on Ceylon are to dump a force to destroy his forces then withdraw. That could become a big POW camp.

Tachyon, I am pretty conservative for the most part. My opponent and I have been playing each other since 2005, WitP, AE and then AE again (this game). He's very aware of my preferences. I want to do something different to surprise him. Just some fun and mayhem. Nothing permanent.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 2:13:25 AM

ny59giants

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I hope Mike doesn't mind me posting here, but we are PM each other about him taking a walk on the wild side and playing a game as the Allies vs me. Shocking, I know!!

I have learned to play both sides well enough, that turns don't take me as long. What is the average time a new Allied player takes to do a turn once the first few weeks have past?? I know for me that the Combat Replay can take up more time than the orders do. There is a lot less micro-management to do as no economy to run. Just moving stuff from point A to B. It is usually less than an hour for me unless i'm loading a major TF worth of stuff.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 2:16:06 AM

Mike Solli

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 2:25:25 AM

Crackaces

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

I hope Mike doesn't mind me posting here, but we are PM each other about him taking a walk on the wild side and playing a game as the Allies vs me. Shocking, I know!!

I have learned to play both sides well enough, that turns don't take me as long. What is the average time a new Allied player takes to do a turn once the first few weeks have past?? I know for me that the Combat Replay can take up more time than the orders do. There is a lot less micro-management to do as no economy to run. Just moving stuff from point A to B. It is usually less than an hour for me unless i'm loading a major TF worth of stuff.

My turns take about an hour. Replay combat. Review Combat Reporter Arrivals, TF's Unknwowns, subamrines, .. while loading up Tracker that can take 30 minutes [I have a slow Sony Vaio

] while I following up with Staff and upgrades/withdrawals . then reacts to alerts . pilot management .. then 10 - 15 minutes clicking things arranging TF's /air group orders .. . final check . send turn ..;) then 15 minutes to upate the AAR ..

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 2:50:21 AM

ny59giants

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Looks like all systems are a GO. Time to pull up RA as Japan and start the "plotting and scheming." I will need to see if I can channel my inner Tom Clancy and pull off my own version of "Hyper War."

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 5:54:46 AM

Cribtop

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Really looking forward to the new matchup. Someday I'll try Allies too. As Japan, it's and hour or so to run and digest the replay and check Tracker. Then about 1.5 hours to enter orders. What can I say, I'm thorough! As Allies, I bet it would go faster.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 4:00:17 PM

Mike Solli

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Yeah, I'm hoping the turns go faster. I suspect the first few will be slow then things will speed up. Not sure why I'm really doing it though. My love is playing the Japanese.

16 Mar 42

Sub War

A couple of Allied escorts caught one of 3 midget subs at Christmas Island and obliterated her with a direct DC hit. Allied ships are in port and there are planes there as well. Bingo.

Not much else to speak of. No air combat in either Pt. Moresby or Burma. I'm going to send some bombers to Akyab tomorrow.

Several attacks will also happen tomorrow to include Bataan, Djambi (no enemy here!), a stack of 6 surrounded Chinese units etc....

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 5:52:53 PM

Cribtop

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Think of it as opposition research. It will make you a better player. Plus, you get to throw assets around like Joe Stalin at a vodka bar. AND you actually get to win the war for once.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 7:05:40 PM

Grfin Zeppelin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

Think of it as opposition research. It will make you a better player. Plus, you get to throw assets around like Joe Stalin at a vodka bar. AND you actually get to win the war for once.

Could also lead to bad habbits " oh I lost 5 fleet carriers....nevermind ill get more"

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 8:03:31 PM

Cribtop

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You got that right, GZ.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 10:59:46 PM

Admiral Mitscher

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I still find this AAR a very scary to look in on, all you JFB's with all these diabolical plans, Uuuuuuoooo

someone just walk over my grave.

Marc.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 11:09:26 PM

Mike Solli

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Admiral Mitscher

I still find this AAR a very scary to look in on, all you JFB's with all these diabolical plans, Uuuuuuoooo someone just walk over my grave.

Marc.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/19/2012 11:30:30 PM

Mike Solli

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17 Mar 42

Sub War

The I-169 was tooling around south of Lord Howe Island and ran into a good sized xAK. Three hits out of 4 torpedoes launched and down she went.

5 Fleet

Very quiet. The infantry regiment is still a few days out of Adak.

4 Fleet

Nothing here either.

SE Fleet

Those damn Kittyhawks are impossible to kill. I lost another Zero (and pilot) to them and then 3 Lilys after they bombed Pt. Moresby airfield.

I've got just about all the dot bases in the area.

Something new today. 9x B-17Es bombed Milne Bay causing moderate damage. That's ok. I'll take that base as the sacrificial lamb. There's nothing there but some engineers and an SNLF company.

I attacked Bataan and it wasn't pretty. The 1:2 odds attack beat itself against level 4 forts. Losses were 2323(30) Japanese to 701(14) Allies. More bombing is in order.

China

I attacked the 6 surrounded Chinese units. There are 3 Group Armies and 3 Chinese Corps with strengths of 150, 50 and 45. The 2:1 odds attack wore them down a bit. Losses were 292(3) Japanese to 489(4) Chinese. I'll rest tomorrow to get some more supply there and then attack again.

Burma

I had 2x sentai of Sallies (56 bombers) hit Akyab airfield causing moderate damage and destroying a Swordfish on the ground. Most of Ted's fighters and bombers are at Imphal with a few fighters stuck at Chittagong, which still has 79 airfield damage and is closed. The only aerial combat was between 20x H81-A3s and a handful of Zeros with no losses on either side.

The 18 Division is a few days out from Rangoon and the IG Divisions left Singapore by ship today.

Sumatra

Djambi was liberated today. The oil field is at 245(5) and will be easily repaired. My oilfields are now over 2500!

Java

More troops move into Batavia. Still not enough to attack, but they're getting close.

The 100k supply convoy from Japan to Soerabaja is about 4 days out. Bout time.

Not much else to talk about. I continue to take bases. Oh yeah, the Ha-45 R&D factory advanced a month to Aug 43. It's used for a bunch of mid to late war planes, including the Frank, George, Grace, and Peggy, plus others.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/23/2012 1:18:52 PM

ny59giants

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BUMP!!

Turn 1 in your Inbox.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/23/2012 1:53:03 PM

Q-Ball

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Just catching up on this AAR, and had a few thoughts on Ceylon vs. Northern Aus. If that was your choice, why not both?

In my mind, Northern Australia doesn't take a huge commitment. This is because it would be foolish of the Allies to commit alot of troops along the Northern Coast, because they can be easily isolated. It's different once you get to Exmouth, but up until then, if I am the Allies I don't put alot of troops there. And if I am Japan, I would welcome any Allied player that did. There is nothing for Japan up there other than denial to the Allies, and isolating a base is better than taking it in some ways.

That's my two yen. Ceylon is a good target because a) you take out the shipyard, and b) anything on the Island can't retreat and will eventually die. Holding it will be a problem though if you don't get into India; otherwise it's more of a raid.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/23/2012 10:40:41 PM

Mike Solli

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Thanks Q-Ball. I value your input a lot.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/23/2012 10:41:32 PM

Mike Solli

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18 Mar 42

Sub War

The I-25, patrolling off San Diego, ran into the fully loaded TK Athelmere and put 3 torpedoes into her. She burned like a torch before slipping beneath the waves. Very nice.

5 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

4 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

SE Fleet

Rough day in the air over Pt. Moresby today. There were a total of 4 different battles there. Total losses were 8x Zeros (and 5 op losses) vs. 8x P-40Es and one op loss. None of those damn Kittyhawks were lost. In addition, a few bombs hit the airfield and Betties sank 2x AMs in port.

Milne Bay was visited by 9x B-17Es. Not much damage on either side.

China

Nothing new to report.

Burma

Nothing happened here today.

SRA

Koepang finally fell in a shock attack. A special base force is enroute. This will become the major base in the southern SRA.

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RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/23/2012 10:42:23 PM

Mike Solli

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19 Mar 42

Sub War

An AM off Pt. Moresby hit the Ro-64 with 2 DCs forcing her to surface. She was then hit by a 4� shell and slipped beneath the waves. I figured she was done for but she�s still fighting to stay afloat! Her damage is 28-91(66)-13(4)-0 and is 18 hexes (18 days!) from Rabaul. We�ll see if she can make it. I�ve moved the remaining subs out from Pt. Moresby a couple more hexes and formed them in a semicircle.

5 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

4 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

SE Fleet

In air combat over Pt. Moresby, I lost 4 Zeros in exchange for 2 Kittyhawks. It is possible to destroy them!

China

Another attack on the 6 surrounded Chinese units caused 392(7) Chinese casualties to 119(4) Japanese. They continue to be worn down.

Burma

Nothing new to report. Ted has positioned a large number of fighters in Akyab. I�m sending a force of 1 BB and 4 CAs to pay them a visit.

SRA

Palembang�s airfield reached level 5 today. This is significant because the total port and airfield level is now 9, which allows unlimited fuel and supply in the hex. I can now keep the refineries on.

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Post #: 1319

RE: Once Again into the Breech - Mike (J) vs. tc464 (A) - 5/23/2012 10:43:23 PM

Mike Solli

Posts: 15792
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: the flight deck of the Zuikaku
Status: offline

20 Mar 42

Sub War

The Ro-64 caught a small Dutch xAP just east of Cairns and sank her with torpedoes. Later that day, the same sub caught another small Dutch xAP in the same spot and sank her with torpedoes. Unfortunately, both were empty, but I�ll still take it. Very nice hunting!

The Ro-60 continues to crawl toward Rabaul and actually repaired 2 points of flot damage!

5 Fleet

Nothing new to report.

4 Fleet

The slew of Naval Guard units are nearing their destinations on the fringe.

SE Fleet
Interesting day today. There were two air to air battles resulting in 2x P-40Es shot down and one op loss vs. two Zero op losses. Later in the day, Lilys showed up and bombed the airfield, destroying another P-40E on the ground.

Not to be outdone, the Betties flew two naval attack missions vs. a TF that just arrived in Pt. Moresby. The escorting Zeros lost 3 of their number protecting the Betties. In all, the Betties sank 3x xAPs, two of which were loaded. Here�s the weird part. One went down with 46 combat squads and 94 guns and the second went down with 179 combat squads and 222 guns! What the heck was that?!

Not much else of note happened other than Tongoo�s airfield reaching level 3 in Burma. Lots of preparations for future ops though.

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Created by the amazing Dixie

(in reply to Mike Solli)

Post #: 1320

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