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Downfall - 5/19/2012 9:22:29 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Starting to look at updating my Downfall Scenario

So feedback welcome please

My initial thoughts are to do 3 levels

Downfall
Downfall: Hakko Ichiu
Downfall: Ironman

So I am looking for feedback mostly for the base scenario but also thoughts about what to add for the other two welcome
Post #: 1
RE: Downfall - 5/19/2012 9:23:02 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		ps john sent you an email if you get time could you take a look

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Post #: 2
RE: Downfall - 5/19/2012 10:37:43 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Have played parts against the AI as the allies. Main suggestions are:

1. Upgrades for ships and LCUs should be done through at least Mid-44.

2. Upgrade devices for assault divisions to latest versions. ex: 1944 sqds vice 41.

3. British Pacific Fleet used Manus as thier forward supply base. Since this is off map upgrade Pelieu to a 7(4) port and large enough AF to support some of Tiger Force. It just takes to long to load supplies or resupply at Peleliu with it as a lvl 0 port. All the BPF funnels through this. Other option would be expand the map to include Manus and blank the other bases.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 3
RE: Downfall - 5/19/2012 11:48:27 PM   
ny59giants


Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline 		The 4e bombers gets "sticks" of bombs rather than individual 500lb.

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Post #: 4
RE: Downfall - 5/20/2012 1:00:52 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Great NEWS!!!  This is a great scenario that I played with for almost a year.

Keep the US NF production going into '46. 

IJ bases in HI should be built up better to start

IJ should have better garrisons and bases on islands around the HI.

need to go back to my notes when I played this I know there are more items ...



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Post #: 5
RE: Downfall - 5/20/2012 3:17:30 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Allied air production seems to be off.

For example the FM-2 has a production of 128 per month with a start date of 2/44 and an end of 8/45. Yet a month into the Downfall and 0 have been produced. Since the start date has passed does the code know to start production? Also planes that have been in production for a period should have a replacement pool available. Anything plane in use should have some replacement pool available.

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Post #: 6
RE: Downfall - 5/20/2012 5:00:28 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		Actually which Downfall version are you using as the base to update from?

I have both Scen #14 and Scen #21.

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Post #: 7
RE: Downfall - 5/20/2012 6:03:31 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Starting with 14 as some of the changes in 21 were ok but not great (band aid)

So far Japanese LCU's fixed
Japanese bases updated
All of JWE's fixes applied

Turning now to Japanese Air and Naval assets


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Post #: 8
RE: Downfall - 5/20/2012 9:29:48 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
Joined: 6/18/2002
From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		I do like Downfall, thanks for the work Andy.

Anyone up for a game?

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Post #: 9
RE: Downfall - 5/20/2012 10:00:43 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		All you need for Ironman is to increase the Jap pilots experience to 70 or so.

I wouldn't mess with the basic setup, except to stop Manila auto-producing supply and fuel.

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Post #: 10
RE: Downfall - 5/20/2012 10:57:22 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		So far for basic

Allied Air rationalised
Allied bases done
IJN done
IJA done

to do USN
AI

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Post #: 11
RE: Downfall - 5/21/2012 1:04:21 AM   
khyberbill


Posts: 1941
Joined: 9/11/2007
From: new milford, ct
Status: offline
quote:

Anyone up for a game?

Perhaps

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Post #: 12
RE: Downfall - 5/21/2012 2:52:44 AM   
dwg

 

Posts: 319
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline 		What's missing for me from the existing Downfall are the parallel operations. It seems strange to have Singapore on map with British forces there, when in reality we were still sorting out Burma and Operation Zipper, the landings at Port Swettenham and Port Dickson, wasn't due to kick off until 9th September. Similarly operations in Borneo (Operation Oboe) and the DEI (Operation Montclair) would either still be in progress or be in the planning stages for when Downfall went in.

You could argue that these should be a separate scenario, but with Singapore on map, and the Borneo ops represented to some degree, the current scenario seems to be neither solely focussed on Downfall, nor to offer complete coverage, but is stuck somewhere in between.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 13
RE: Downfall - 5/21/2012 12:18:18 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Singapore is assumed to have been conquered in this semi mythical scenario because it would be to much for both sides to deal with and I wanted an entry point.

I am contemplating adding a couple of exta bases in Malaya and starting Singapore with Garrison as Japanese to represent some randomness to the support level offered by Singapore as it will be damaged on conquer but I wanted to discourage a dash along China coast which is why the victory points are in Japan !!!

I am also considering adding back in Oosthaven and maybe one or two other small ports to enable blockade runners to load up with more chance of success.

But the principal of the scenario was

Japan still has resources and fuel and oil at Palembang/SEA/China and Korea trapped by the sub blockade
Japan needs to hold onto as much of HI as possible and neutralise as much as they can the allied strategic air offiensive

So you get a mini blockade runner game the Japanese want to get those resources and troops home before the invasion the allies want to stop them and the strategic air war and the invasion itself

So one of the main changes I am making is to distribute a higher proportion of the Japanese cargo and escrot fleet to five or six supply ports to encourage blockade runner operations.

I am also increasing the Japanese AA defences of Tokyo and Osaka on the basis the Japanese high command builds what are defacto a couple of AA Divs to protect the key industrial hubs this should force the 29's higher and avoid the B29's bomb at 5,000 feet and toch the Japanese economy on day one effect.

Also adding the remnants (much depleted) of the reteated Burma Area Army to SEA which gives some interesting options for getting highly experienced cadres back to the HI

Hakko Ichiu version will have the extra Hakko ships so 3 - 4 CL's and 20 fleet Destroyers and a few other nasties (fast AK blockade runners being favourite for now and 3 - 4 extra Divs for Japan (located in interesting places....)

Possibly accelerate a couple of planes a month and a few better pilots.

Ironman you don't wnat to know about......trust me..

Allies are getting a few changes as well - all CW aircraft are now interchangeable between CW nations except Thuds will be Brit/Indian only and F4U1D's will be NZ only

Rest interchangable to make things easier



(in reply to dwg)
Post #: 14
RE: Downfall - 5/21/2012 3:41:40 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Should have the basic re written scenario done inside a couple of days

When its doen it will be available for review and suggestions while I work on hakko and Ironman versions

When those are done I want to revisit the AI for both sides I have some nasty tricks in mind for both sides


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Post #: 15
RE: Downfall - 5/21/2012 6:19:10 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Should have the basic re written scenario done inside a couple of days

When its doen it will be available for review and suggestions while I work on hakko and Ironman versions

When those are done I want to revisit the AI for both sides I have some nasty tricks in mind for both sides

Just keep in touch, Andy. I want to make sure the "stock" scenarios on the Babes site are all up to the latest and greatest standards. You know why.

Soon as you get your scenarios in Bristol condition, please let me know so I can post them. J

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Post #: 16
RE: Downfall - 5/22/2012 4:33:58 AM   
dwg

 

Posts: 319
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
But the principal of the scenario was

Japan still has resources and fuel and oil at Palembang/SEA/China and Korea trapped by the sub blockade
Japan needs to hold onto as much of HI as possible and neutralise as much as they can the allied strategic air offiensive

So you get a mini blockade runner game the Japanese want to get those resources and troops home before the invasion the allies want to stop them and the strategic air war and the invasion itself

So one of the main changes I am making is to distribute a higher proportion of the Japanese cargo and escrot fleet to five or six supply ports to encourage blockade runner operations.


I've not really been looking at Downfall from the Japanese perspective, and your plotting should make for a much more interesting game.

quote:

Allies are getting a few changes as well - all CW aircraft are now interchangeable between CW nations except Thuds will be Brit/Indian only and F4U1D's will be NZ only


That's something I'm planning for my own scenarios too, though I hadn't thought of the Thud/Corsair link (could also apply to the P-51Hs which were en route to replace the Kiwi Corsairs at the end of the war).

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 17
RE: Downfall - 5/22/2012 4:47:53 AM   
dwg

 

Posts: 319
Joined: 1/22/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
Hakko Ichiu version will have the extra Hakko ships so 3 - 4 CL's and 20 fleet Destroyers and a few other nasties (fast AK blockade runners being favourite for now and 3 - 4 extra Divs for Japan (located in interesting places....)

Possibly accelerate a couple of planes a month and a few better pilots.


Maybe some ground stuff as well? Perhaps some production of Type 4 Chi-To medium tanks and infantry with a better anti-armour value due to the Type 4 70mm AT rocket laucher? OTOH levee infantry with lunge mines have a flavour all of their own.

(in reply to Andy Mac)
Post #: 18
RE: Downfall - 5/22/2012 12:17:30 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Probably not much on ground stuff for Hakko Ichiu other than maybe some more AA guns protecting a few more key cities

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Post #: 19
RE: Downfall - 5/22/2012 12:18:39 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Ok John will do Scenarios will be done pretty quick its the AI I want to take some time witht

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Post #: 20
RE: Downfall - 5/22/2012 10:02:42 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		OK scen attached AI same as previous version but enough to be playable for now before I turn to Hakko version

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Post #: 21
RE: Downfall - 5/22/2012 10:23:48 PM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac

OK scen attached AI same as previous version but enough to be playable for now before I turn to Hakko version



It's still labeled as scen 14

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Post #: 22
RE: Downfall - 5/22/2012 10:53:14 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		yup its n update for 14

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Post #: 23
RE: Downfall - 5/23/2012 3:55:23 PM   
JWE

 

Posts: 6580
Joined: 7/19/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Andy Mac
OK scen attached AI same as previous version but enough to be playable for now before I turn to Hakko version

Thank you Andy. It's posted on the Stock Updates page of the Babes site as:
Scen14_Downfall_The End v01.zip

J

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Post #: 24
RE: Downfall - 5/23/2012 5:14:36 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Thanks John it will almost certainly change before I am done so I will let you have updates as I get them

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Post #: 25
RE: Downfall - 5/23/2012 6:56:49 PM   
ckk

 

Posts: 1268
Joined: 10/18/2000
From: Pensacola Beach FL
Status: offline 		Can I assume that since all involve the AI, that they will all require a restart?

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Post #: 26
RE: Downfall - 5/23/2012 10:59:43 PM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Hakko Ichiu version

Allied bombing campaign not as effective
IJN stronger
IJA stronger
Industry in better shape

Still working on AI

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Post #: 27
RE: Downfall - 5/24/2012 12:04:59 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Hakko version is still in devpt and will take a few days to finalise

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Post #: 28
RE: Downfall - 5/24/2012 12:31:08 AM   
rjopel

 

Posts: 614
Joined: 12/19/2007
From: Charlottesville, VA, USA
Status: offline 		The US LCUs at Clark Field, Iba, and Manila need updating to the 1944/45 TOEs.

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Post #: 29
RE: Downfall - 5/24/2012 11:35:50 AM   
Andy Mac

 

Posts: 15222
Joined: 5/12/2004
From: Alexandria, Scotland
Status: offline 		Thanks exactly what I need

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Post #: 30
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