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group fire - 5/29/2012 1:01:15 PM   
hugi

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 5/10/2012
Status: offline 		Hello CoH-Player,

I had some trouble with groups in the last games.

One strange thing is that you can add APs to all activate group member for only 1 CAP.
Sometimes I add a AP from CAP, select another unit and then the extra AP is forgotten (and the CAP is lost).

But the most strange situation is the group firing.
In the scenario "the monsters" or other big tank fights I can't use group fire.
If I activate more units (tanks) the hit proprietary will not raise.
When I now fire, the group fire has no effect (no +1 for each group member), but all units spent the AP for firing.

In other scenarios with foot units the group fire works.

So ... is this a bug or misread I the (very weak) manual?

Hope anybody can help me.

Greetings
hugi
Post #: 1
RE: group fire - 5/29/2012 4:45:46 PM   
JFalk68


Posts: 223
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline 		I'm not an expert hugi but I think the group fire bonus only applies to adjacent units to the fire team leader, so if you have 5 units and the fire team leader is in the center you can only use the units on either side of the fire team leader.  With that said, your adjacent units have to also have LOS to the target for the bonus to work.

I'll play a game later on and see if I am seeing that happen as well

(in reply to hugi)
Post #: 2
RE: group fire - 6/3/2012 3:36:56 PM   
hugi

 

Posts: 34
Joined: 5/10/2012
Status: offline 		And ... what are you thinking?

In my opinion many group actions are broken.
Example:
-Add CAPs to groups
-Actions like "build hasty defence" on groups

(in reply to JFalk68)
Post #: 3
RE: group fire - 6/3/2012 3:49:03 PM   
junk2drive


Posts: 12907
Joined: 6/27/2002
From: Arizona West Coast
Status: offline 		Still trying to understand groups. In my mind, if the lead unit moves forward, all the group should move forward at the same time. Group fire, all the units should fire. etc...

(in reply to hugi)
Post #: 4
RE: group fire - 6/3/2012 8:46:23 PM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline 		In group moves, you still have to go through the user interface to move each unit -- there is no requirement that all units move in precisely the same direction. Group fire follows the rules in the board game in which there is a fire-leader who is assisted by adjacent units within the group.

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Post #: 5
RE: group fire - 6/3/2012 9:24:53 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		As long as we are willing to continue to improve the computer version of the game and not slavishly adhere to the board games rules, I will give this game a chance at some point. I did buy it. But the little I have played so far, the various "rules" are killing the immersion for me. The counters I love!

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Post #: 6
RE: group fire - 6/4/2012 3:32:10 AM   
ericbabe


Posts: 11927
Joined: 3/23/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau
As long as we are willing to continue to improve the computer version of the game and not slavishly adhere to the board games rules, I will give this game a chance at some point. I did buy it. But the little I have played so far, the various "rules" are killing the immersion for me. The counters I love!


I'm curious which rules you think kill the immersion factor of the game. Are they things we could allow players to turn on/off as game options?

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Post #: 7
RE: group fire - 6/4/2012 3:46:14 AM   
RockKahn

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/27/2011
From: USA
Status: offline 		I've never played this particular board game, but generally, I think the rules are great as they currently are. I just hope the developers don't end up turning this "game" into a "simulation". It plays like a board game and I hope it stays that way.

I think after they fix a few of the bugs and fix the areas where the game is a little "quirky", for lack of a better term, the game will be great and I'm looking forward to the future expansions.

As far as moving all the units in the group at the same time is concerned, I don't want the AI moving my units. It could move one unit into a woods hex instead of around it, and my whole group would lose an extra AP.

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 8
RE: group fire - 6/4/2012 7:46:47 AM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Maybe I've been playing Tiller's Campaign Series too long. In CoH, my rifle squad is wiped out from 8x away by an HMG and yet two tanks seem to have to share a hex to get kills. I am also finding it difficult to see what my units can see - probably am just missing a keystroke like in JTCS. It will all be good as long as devs don't get as obsessive as Hexwar seemed to be in following the TT for FoG rules, whether they worked well in the computer game or not.

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Post #: 9
RE: group fire - 6/4/2012 5:06:20 PM   
JFalk68


Posts: 223
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Maybe I've been playing Tiller's Campaign Series too long. In CoH, my rifle squad is wiped out from 8x away by an HMG and yet two tanks seem to have to share a hex to get kills. I am also finding it difficult to see what my units can see - probably am just missing a keystroke like in JTCS. It will all be good as long as devs don't get as obsessive as Hexwar seemed to be in following the TT for FoG rules, whether they worked well in the computer game or not.


Hi rousseau, you don't need to have tanks share a hex to get a kill, in fact it's a detriment because anything firing into the hex with 2 tanks gets to roll dice for each tank in the hex. So If my anti-tank gun fires at your 2 tanks in the same hex, I get to attack each tank for the cost of 1 attack.

Grouping does not mean units share the same hex, you need to manually group the units together from units that are adjacent and touching each other. Those units together make a manuver group. To group select each unit with the mouse and hit cntrl. The group should be outlined in red and the fire team leader in yellow. I am doing this off the top of my head, so double check the manual, there is a picture in the manual as well showing a group!

Hope this helps!

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 10
RE: group fire - 6/4/2012 8:57:23 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Yeah, I gotta play the game more. I did a hot-seat and had to have a T34 and PIVh in the same hex before the panzer got blown away. The face off started at like 10x. Meanwhile, a JTCS PBEM I'm playing feels as real as it gets - in a computer game at least!

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Post #: 11
RE: group fire - 6/4/2012 9:25:28 PM   
JFalk68


Posts: 223
Joined: 11/5/2007
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rosseau

Yeah, I gotta play the game more. I did a hot-seat and had to have a T34 and PIVh in the same hex before the panzer got blown away. The face off started at like 10x. Meanwhile, a JTCS PBEM I'm playing feels as real as it gets - in a computer game at least!



Ahh, I misunderstood you about units in the same hex, I thought you where putting in 2 German tanks in the same hex thinking it was going to give you a bonus, my apologies.

I played some HPS squad games and I enjoy the system for the most part but one thing that irks me is in Squad Battles, your unit degrades the more you fire it. I'm not sure understand this, maybe it's an abstract way of saying you been in combat too long and you are no longer battle worthy but it happens too fast imo.

And its in need of a graphic update, but the true grognards will debate that point with me lol

(in reply to Rosseau)
Post #: 12
RE: group fire - 6/4/2012 10:21:35 PM   
Rosseau

 

Posts: 2757
Joined: 9/13/2009
Status: offline 		Yes, Company of Heroes (the RTS) graphics with the fidelity of Squad Battles or CoH. Technology what it is, we should see it soon

Just tried Assault on Peprez as Russian. This is quite a game...

< Message edited by rosseau -- 6/5/2012 4:29:42 AM >

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Post #: 13
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