RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/18/2012 11:20:39 PM

danlongman

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People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined. I think of RE Lee's comment after Fredricksberg about enjoyment. I remember some fun times in the army and some great incredible intense friendships.
But it sucked. I think where some films fail is that it is almost impossible to convey the madness and terror so they must contrive images and cartoons.
Think of all the war movies before "Enemy at the Gates" and "Saving Ryans Privates". War was frequently protrayed as some kind of important
sporting event where, sadly, some guys got dead. The reason I mention those two was because they had an enormous impact with the realism
of their opening scenes. The overwhelming chaos and most importantly the incredible level of noise along with the desperate and helpless bewilderment
of the soldiers was never as effectively portrayed IMHO. My mom dragged my late father to pvt Ryan. He had been to Korea. A few minutes into
the movie the Old Man was gone. She went looking for him and found him outside the theatre smoking a cigarette he had bummed from a teenage usher.
He hadn't smoked for 20 years.

< Message edited by danlongman -- 6/18/2012 11:22:59 PM >

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/18/2012 11:37:05 PM

wodin

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Loved the movie but the English dubbing was terrible, why people rather have that than subtitles I've no idea, I hate dubbed films.

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/18/2012 11:40:08 PM

wodin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Rufus T. Firefly

Forgive me for being too lazy to find a link and post it but, youtube also has the full movie dubbed in English if you prefer.

I watched about 2/3 of it a couple of weeks ago and I'm sorry to report I didn't find it to be worth more than 2 stars. I didn't think it was worth sitting through the final 40 minutes.

So what do you guys think is the best movie about the Eastern Front?

I'd say Enemy at the Gates, but I haven't seen very many.

Stalingrad was superb, EATG was a damn awful hollywood film , no one could do the accents even the acting was mediocre at best and whole feel of the movie smacked of hollywood. I remember seeing EATG reviewed by a Military Historian, he said go watch Stalingrad instead. and a fantasy battle between two snipers which never happened.

Stalingrad was far more realistic film. Shocked someone would think EATG was better.

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Post #: 33

RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/18/2012 11:43:13 PM

wodin

Posts: 10762
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quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined. I think of RE Lee's comment after Fredricksberg about enjoyment. I remember some fun times in the army and some great incredible intense friendships.
But it sucked. I think where some films fail is that it is almost impossible to convey the madness and terror so they must contrive images and cartoons.
Think of all the war movies before "Enemy at the Gates" and "Saving Ryans Privates". War was frequently protrayed as some kind of important
sporting event where, sadly, some guys got dead. The reason I mention those two was because they had an enormous impact with the realism
of their opening scenes. The overwhelming chaos and most importantly the incredible level of noise along with the desperate and helpless bewilderment
of the soldiers was never as effectively portrayed IMHO. My mom dragged my late father to pvt Ryan. He had been to Korea. A few minutes into
the movie the Old Man was gone. She went looking for him and found him outside the theatre smoking a cigarette he had bummed from a teenage usher.
He hadn't smoked for 20 years.

Antti War films have been made since the twenties "All quiet on the Western front". Even in the seventies films like Aces High were made. So they have been around well before EATG and SPR.
A recent war film that many seem to hate but I loved was Thin Red Line, the cinematography was sublime in that film.

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Post #: 34

RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/18/2012 11:47:50 PM

Tauroggen

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@danlongman

You are certainly right of the madness of war and of the superficiality many older movies dealt with it.

But: after the opening scenes "Saving Private Ryan" more and more becomes a propaganda movie good vs evil, the same with "Enemy at the Gates" you mentioned. ("Enemy at the Gates" is in many aspects pure fantasy, not authentic at all.)
These movies are not better than the older ones. They are just more impressive and realistic in the use of weaponry and explosives, but completely miss the point that it is not the good ones vs the evil ones in war.

If you don't believe me because of Nazi warcrimes, take other wars and how they are dealt with.
The anti-war thing in most movies is in my opinion pure hypocrisy.
They use the sensational effects and the heroism, the whole movie is built on it, and then there is an added ideological tone that war is bad, (but the enemy has to be beaten because hes evil)
This is artistically and morally wrong and makes bad movies, in my opinion.
Maybe Kubricks "Full metal jacket" is the most honest movie of that genre, because it shows that they are trained to kill, and then they do it.

< Message edited by Tauroggen -- 6/18/2012 11:56:39 PM >

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Post #: 35

RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/18/2012 11:49:55 PM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined.

Right on all accounts, sir

There is this rule of thumb that always work... if you see a war veteran that loves talking about his war, be sure of this: he saw no action, was in the rear, etc. etc.

Those who really were at the front will hardly talk about their war experiences...

This should tell you something. Namely, it's traumatic...

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Post #: 36

RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/18/2012 11:50:55 PM

Tauroggen

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I also do not like this movie "Stalingrad" because of all its political vulgarities.

Tarkovskis "Ivans Childhood" you can watch in youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_vME7D0flU&feature=fvwrel

Tarkovski is a great man!
This is his masterpiece, "the mirror", plays also during World War 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCTMM1iZ5Lw&feature=mv_sr

I find that Douglas Sirk: A Time to Love and a Time to Die (1958) is quite a good movie about the Eastern Front
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsq7PH3gbQE&feature=related

Quite authentic, and maybe still the best German Stalingrad-movie is
"Dogs, Do You Want to Live Forever?" (1959)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kJ9Dtxpf-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5R_bk_lRcE
and the other parts:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Stalingrad%3A+Dogs%2C+Do+You+Want+to+Live+Forever%3F+Part+3&oq=Stalingrad%3A+Dogs%2C+Do+You+Want+to+Live+Forever%3F+Part+3&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=youtube-reduced.12...2787.4135.0.5650.2.2.0.0.0.0.627.751.0j1j5-1.2.0...0.0.fnw6p_Y0oOU

The German movie called "08/15" with Gefreiter (Corporal) Asch you can find here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRVj4HKSYBw
I think the movie is superficial.

Soviet movies I found on youtube are:

This two movies, "the break-through", are about the battle of Kursk and the following campaigns: full of Soviet Propaganda, but very impressive and expensive, Hollywood-like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgTLjkxwZuY&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1
From min 48 on you can see that the Soviet film industry seemed to have a few Tiger tanks for their movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iyuc_0hX9w&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1

This one, "ballad of a soldier", sings the hymn for a Russian hero soldier, in Soviet Propaganda Style, but also impressive pictures of Russian soul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0zr877200s&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1

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Post #: 37

RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 12:00:11 AM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined.

Right on all accounts, sir

There is this rule of thumb that always work... if you see a war veteran that loves talking about his war, be sure of this: he saw no action, was in the rear, etc. etc.

Those who really were at the front will hardly talk about their war experiences...

This should tell you something. Namely, it's traumatic...

No wait, there is a well known exception: Adolf Hitler. Yes, they tried to prove he was during the war 5 or 6 kilometers behind the front (he was a messenger) and suffered little but apparently that was not a safe job at all.

And it is well known, Hitler's favourite topic was er... his experiences during WW1.

But eh, he was a psycho, so he does not count

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Post #: 38

RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 12:01:33 AM

danlongman

Posts: 586
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From: Over the hills and far away
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Yes I pretty much agree TD but you forgot the third category, one that I mentioned
because I have met one or two. The Psycho. Two kinds: one who actually really enjoyed
the carnage and chaos and the second who is so broken that it is all that is left of him...that he went there once.
For me the former is terrifying and disturbing the latter is often finished for life, a fatal casualty as much
as the guy who was blown to bits. There is a big (for Kanookistan) military facility here and in the
population are many returned Afghan vets. I still retain some ties to the military and see some of these
guys in the course of my normal activities. I think when our Fathers and Uncles and Grandfathers
came back from WW 2 say, they may have had it easier because they were among thousands of returned
soldiers. The guys I see feel very alone and isolated.

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Post #: 39

RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 12:20:23 AM

wodin

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From: England
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

People who complain about movies with anti-war messages really make me scratch my head. Anyone who actually enjoyed participating
in these events were pretty much psychos. IMHO you should never miss a chance to point out to the body politic that war is hell and cruelty
unrefined.

Right on all accounts, sir

There is this rule of thumb that always work... if you see a war veteran that loves talking about his war, be sure of this: he saw no action, was in the rear, etc. etc.

Those who really were at the front will hardly talk about their war experiences...

This should tell you something. Namely, it's traumatic...

No wait, there is a well known exception: Adolf Hitler. Yes, they tried to prove he was during the war 5 or 6 kilometers behind the front (he was a messenger) and suffered little but apparently that was not a safe job at all.

And it is well known, Hitler's favourite topic was er... his experiences during WW1.

But eh, he was a psycho, so he does not count

Hitler won the Iron Cross in WW1. Being a messenger\runner was one of the most dangerous jobs in the trenches. He was no coward despite how propaganda and opinion likes to paint him out to have been. He was at the Somme during the Height of the offensive.

Stalingrad political vulgarities...care to explain. Also wasn't Dogs do you want to live forever a film rife with propaganda of the times. I think sensibilites are swayed and some peoples propaganda is more ture than others, yet Stalingrad to me had ne real political message at all.

< Message edited by wodin -- 6/19/2012 12:24:41 AM >

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 12:58:19 AM

TulliusDetritus

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Wodin, yes, I know, I have recently read most excellent Ian Kershaw's book about Hitler.

In fact to me this movie Stalingrad does have a message. But a positive one. Made on the 90s. A [German] society that has 100% accepted (except some lunatics of course) what they did was atrocious. This, I clearly see when I watch the movie...

Now think about er... the Japanese. Revisionism is still really strong. To Japanese society for example the Rape of Nanjing is a myth, along with the many other atrocities.

Not sure if this movie wanted to sell this message, but it's what I perceive. Just like I perceive a guy who loves blood and violence when I watch Peckinpah's movies

Now of course we have fraulein Merkel & the austerity thing from hell in Europe but let's drop that

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 1:06:39 AM

danlongman

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Poor Fraulein Merkel...as I said once .....or was it told TO me?...I do not remember.
When you are out on a drunken spree be careful who you bring home at the end of the night.
Jao and Juan and Giovanni and Sean and Iaonnos may be fun guys, no doubt about it, but in the morning....what a mess!
good luck and try not to drag me down with you.

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 1:10:01 AM

Tauroggen

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quote:

Stalingrad political vulgarities...care to explain.

For example the devilish German officer whose one and only task in the movie is to be evil...
Also when during the travel by train the Private offends the Officer by telling him: You will die, I will survive. This is completeley ahistorical nonsense, no soldier of WW II did such thing. The director of the movie seems to have felt the pressure to make the German officers the guilty ones, so that the Privates could get some empathy by the public.
This I mean by "political vulgarities". Maybe it is not a good expression for what I mean: ideological phrases, political correct statements, black and white, to whitewash the movie of the accuse of being not anti-war or anti-nazi enough, because otherwise the movie would get into problems, and certainly its director.

quote:

Also wasn't Dogs do you want to live forever a film rife with propaganda of the times.

It certainly was superficial about the cruelty of war, but quite correct in the portray and atmosphere of the army communication and the "normal front life". Also quite correct in telling the operational and tactical situations. Remember that normal experience of war was not sensational fighting or cruelties, but a quite boring waiting for action, and dealing with the military bureaucracy.
Movies like Enemy at the Gates have nothing to do with history, in comparison to that you can call "Dogs do you want to live forever" a documentary movie.

< Message edited by Tauroggen -- 6/19/2012 1:13:53 AM >

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 1:15:10 AM

TulliusDetritus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: danlongman

Poor Fraulein Merkel...as I said once .....or was it told TO me?...I do not remember.
When you are out on a drunken spree be careful who you bring home at the end of the night.
Jao and Juan and Giovanni and Sean and Iaonnos may be fun guys, no doubt about it, but in the morning....what a mess!
good luck and try not to drag me down with you.

Yes, but she paid the drinks and clearly wanted to get them drunk!

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 1:45:52 PM

Banzan

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One of the movies i really like is Die Br�cke/The Bridge in the old version (not the new one!). Its more an anti-war movie instead of a war movie, but still very good. Not sure if you can find a youtube link for it, but i can't check youtube from work.

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 10:19:00 PM

Encircled

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"Cross of Iron" is one of the best war films, and certainly about as good as you are going to get about the eastern front.

EATG is like Pearl Harbour

If you haven't seen it, then "Downfall" (the last days of Hitler) and "Conspiracy" ( the meeting that decided on the extermination of the Jews) are about as good as you are going to get for war movies.

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RE: Stalingrad Full Movie with english subtitles - 6/19/2012 10:25:53 PM

Farfarer61

Posts: 713
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Thanks for the link to "Dogs". Moving and informative.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Tauroggen

I also do not like this movie "Stalingrad" because of all its political vulgarities.

Tarkovskis "Ivans Childhood" you can watch in youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_vME7D0flU&feature=fvwrel

Tarkovski is a great man!
This is his masterpiece, "the mirror", plays also during World War 2
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCTMM1iZ5Lw&feature=mv_sr

I find that Douglas Sirk: A Time to Love and a Time to Die (1958) is quite a good movie about the Eastern Front
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsq7PH3gbQE&feature=related

Quite authentic, and maybe still the best German Stalingrad-movie is
"Dogs, Do You Want to Live Forever?" (1959)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1kJ9Dtxpf-8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O5R_bk_lRcE
and the other parts:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Stalingrad%3A+Dogs%2C+Do+You+Want+to+Live+Forever%3F+Part+3&oq=Stalingrad%3A+Dogs%2C+Do+You+Want+to+Live+Forever%3F+Part+3&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&gs_l=youtube-reduced.12...2787.4135.0.5650.2.2.0.0.0.0.627.751.0j1j5-1.2.0...0.0.fnw6p_Y0oOU

The German movie called "08/15" with Gefreiter (Corporal) Asch you can find here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRVj4HKSYBw
I think the movie is superficial.

Soviet movies I found on youtube are:

This two movies, "the break-through", are about the battle of Kursk and the following campaigns: full of Soviet Propaganda, but very impressive and expensive, Hollywood-like
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgTLjkxwZuY&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1
From min 48 on you can see that the Soviet film industry seemed to have a few Tiger tanks for their movie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7iyuc_0hX9w&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1

This one, "ballad of a soldier", sings the hymn for a Russian hero soldier, in Soviet Propaganda Style, but also impressive pictures of Russian soul
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0zr877200s&feature=watch-now-button&wide=1