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Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Q-Ball (A) - 7/1/2012 3:20:00 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Hi all,

so yes, i decided to jump on the other side of the hill.
For my second Pbem match i thought it was time to grow up and to wear the clothes of the Evil Empire

My opponent, for the moment, will be unknown...thus i will start this AAR talking about the japanese production problems, HRs, etc rather than the gran strategy decided.

We're gonna play DaIronBabes, scenario 30. For those who don't know, it's the equivalent of scenario 2 stock but using the DaBabes data, the extended map and the stacking limits.

So, before even talking about the HRs (i still have to decide what to propose to my future opponent), i'd like to say a pubblic THANK YOU to all of those who have helped introducing me into the basics of japanese economy.
Obvert, Mike Solli (with his great AAR), Damian and many others.... but, above all, NY59Giants, who has been particularly patient with me and so kind to send me several documents in order to understand (not that i did manage to, mind you) how not to screw up everything during the first week of production!
THANK YOU!

So, let's start with PLANE PRODUCTION:

These are my choices (remember, it's like scenario 2) for the inital changes in the production lines.

FIGHTERS:

A6M2 Zero: two factories producing it: Maebashi 56 (56) and Tokyo 0 (21) (former Sonia factory), for a total of 133 Ha-35 engines needed.
Oscar Ic: three factories producing it: Maebashi 0 (24) (former Nate factory), Maebashi 32 and Gifu 0 (27) (former Ida factory), for a total of 83 Ha-35 engines needed.


BOMBERS:

Val: one factory producing it: Nagoya 12 (18) for a total of 30 Ha-33 engines needed.
Kate (B5N1 variant): one factory producing it: Nagasaki 0 (20) (former Pete factory), for a total of 20 Nakajima Hikari engines needed (to dry the pool of 99).
Kate (B5N2 variant): one factory producing it: Hiroshima 0 (32), for a total of 32 Ha-35 engines needed.

Nell: one factory producing it: Maebashi 22, for a total of 44 Ha-33 engines needed.
Betty: one factory producing it: Nagoya 25, for a total of 50 Ha-32 needed.

Sally-IIa: one factory prod. it: Nagoya 23 (7) for a total of 60 Ha-32 needed.
Lily-Ib: one factory producing it: Gifu 34, for a total of 68 Ha-35 needed (only for few months).


FLOAT PLANES:

Jake: one factory producing it: Hiroshima 27, for a total of 27 Ha-33 engines needed.
Glenn: one factory producing it: Nagoya 9 (1) for a total of 10Hitachi Hamakaze engines needed.
Mavis: one factory prod. it: Osaka 6 (6) for a total of 48 Ha-33 needed.


RECON PLANES:

Dinah: one factory producing it: Nagoya 10 (10) for a total 0f 40 Ha-31 needed.
Babs: one factory producing it: Harbin 0 (7) for a total of 7 Ha-35 needed (former Nate factory).


TRANSPORT PLANES:

Tina: one factory producing it: Gifu 0 (10) - former Ki-56 factory -, for a total of 20 Ha-33 needed.
Topsy: one factory producing it: Hammamtsu 6 (6) for a total of 24 Ha-5 needed.



To produce these planes i will need the following engines (monthly):

327 Ha-35 engines
338 Ha-33 engines
110 Ha-32 engines
10 Hitaci Amek. engines
20 Nakajima Hikari
40 Ha-31 engines
24 Ha-5 engines

....useless to say the engines production at the beginning of the scenario is completely wrong and insufficient to fill these needs... now i could easily adjust it to the current needs but i fear to screw everything up for the future...i mean: the engine production must also forsee which plane will arrive in the nearby and far future and so act to stockpile eventually what is needed and to trash what is not...

Any suggestion?

For example i know i will need a good number of Ha-34 engines to fill the orders for the Helens and Tojos that will start to arrive in mid-42.... so do you think i should already devote part of the production to stockpile the Ha-34?

...for what concerns the R&D....i'm still studing...but any suggestion will be welcome


< Message edited by GreyJoy -- 7/8/2012 4:53:47 PM >
Post #: 1
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 3:31:56 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		You produce only 30 Sally IIa ? That are very few...

Then, why 20 Tina Transports per month ? Do you have more units using the Tina than in scenario II ?
In scenario II i have many units using the Topsy, but only ONE using the Tina at start.
So in my game i produce 25 Topsy and 6 Tina per month.

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 2
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 3:40:49 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Yup, my mistake. I wanted to write 10 tina.... now edited. 10 Tina and 20 Ha-33 needed

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 3
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 3:42:38 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Btw, i´m glad you play finally the "right" side. Will follow your AAR with interest !

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 4
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 3:49:11 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: seille

Btw, i´m glad you play finally the "right" side. Will follow your AAR with interest !



Thanks, it feels strange to wear the Kimono...but for sure i'm gonna like this oriental experience

(in reply to seille)
Post #: 5
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 3:51:26 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		For what concerns the Lily...i've read the whole discussion in the main forum and in Mike S. AAR... think i'm gonna stockpile it a bit untill the Helens come online, then i'll switch everything into Helen production (I don't like the Sally that much to keep it production more than the first 6 months of war)

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 6
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 4:15:49 PM   
crsutton


Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Ah, you have found your match. I hope he proves to be a good one. Good hunting I will be following.

_____________________________

I am the Holy Roman Emperor and am above grammar.

Sigismund of Luxemburg

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 7
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 4:20:14 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline 		This is going to be fun! It's going to be a very different feeling hearing the Banzai cheer when you take a base and learning to love the incredible victories Tokyo Rose will throw your way.

Your production looks good to me. Eventually you'll want to add to the pools of several engines you'll need during the whole war, like the Ha-33 and Ha-35, plus the Ha-34. I think the Ha-34 is still in R n D in the early days. Check in the scenario you're playing as well, becasue in stock Scen 2 the Tojo does NOT use that engine. I think it uses the Ha-35. See what is listed in your scenario, or you could be in trouble later.

Once you get the airframe and engine production figured out, then you'll love getting into the ship conversions ans setting up your first CS convoys!!

In the beginning make sure to check ALL combat ships, from the BB/CA on down while they're in port, so you can change out poor captains. it's tough to get a hold of this if you wait and there are a few stinkers in there.

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 8
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 4:28:09 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		With the advent of PP's required for plane changes, you should seriously consider keeping some 1E bombers in production. Ann or Mary are best. I produce both, Mike is looking to only produce the Mary.

Take a hard look at your starting engine pools. 31, hikari, and 5 you should have enough in pool not to have to build more.

You are shifting a LOT of factories here. Not disagreeing, but you will need to watch your HI supply levels like a hawk through Jan. It will be a tightrope to walk to keep your assaults in supply along with all of the factory builds you are looking to do not to mention the oil you will want to repair ....

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 9
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 4:28:10 PM   
LoBaron


Posts: 4776
Joined: 1/26/2003
From: Vienna, Austria
Status: offline 		Ah, perfect, another story of Hair Raising Battles.
I hope we will see one or the other Furball.
Don´t let your Allied opponent remove your Pelt too fast.


Good luck.

_____________________________


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 10
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 4:43:16 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

With the advent of PP's required for plane changes, you should seriously consider keeping some 1E bombers in production. Ann or Mary are best. I produce both, Mike is looking to only produce the Mary.

Take a hard look at your starting engine pools. 31, hikari, and 5 you should have enough in pool not to have to build more.

You are shifting a LOT of factories here. Not disagreeing, but you will need to watch your HI supply levels like a hawk through Jan. It will be a tightrope to walk to keep your assaults in supply along with all of the factory builds you are looking to do not to mention the oil you will want to repair ....


mmm... strong points here Pax... i'm not that used yet to look at the whole HI problems....
Would you suggest me to go slower with some expansions (for example the Zero ones) and maybe shift one of the 3 Oscar factories to produce Maries ?

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 11
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 4:51:19 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Slower, yes.  Look at Mike's AAR ... he makes factory moves like molasses in Attu in February.    Remember, once your initial supply stockpile in the HI is gone, you only have so much supply built each day in the HI.  You need a portion of that to export for your operations.  Fail that, and you have no offensive.  Then you need supply for factory repair, again split between captured oil centers and your economic expansion.  You have to take a hard look at what you MUST have against what you would like to have.

Choices are endless and there is no single recipe here.  But, going slower rather than too fast is ALWAYS the wisest choice.  The former, you may not have as many flashy new Oscars or Zekes in Feb (not that big of a deal); the latter, your economy implodes and you cannot finish your assaults and it takes you a month to recover during your amphib bonus period.  I think you know what that means (potentially failure to take all of the DEI!).



_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 12
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 4:54:05 PM   
obvert


Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

With the advent of PP's required for plane changes, you should seriously consider keeping some 1E bombers in production. Ann or Mary are best. I produce both, Mike is looking to only produce the Mary.

Take a hard look at your starting engine pools. 31, hikari, and 5 you should have enough in pool not to have to build more.

You are shifting a LOT of factories here. Not disagreeing, but you will need to watch your HI supply levels like a hawk through Jan. It will be a tightrope to walk to keep your assaults in supply along with all of the factory builds you are looking to do not to mention the oil you will want to repair ....


mmm... strong points here Pax... i'm not that used yet to look at the whole HI problems....
Would you suggest me to go slower with some expansions (for example the Zero ones) and maybe shift one of the 3 Oscar factories to produce Maries ?


You pretty much have to build these planes. You just have to be careful about what else you do.

Also, it's a good idea to go to ALL bases that produce anything and raise their supply button to at least 5-6000, so they will try to stock 15-18000. The factoriers only repair if the base has at least 10,000 supply, and at times if many factories are repairing at once in the same base you need a buffer of supply. Some bases are notoriously slow to get supply as well, such as Gifu.

I made very similar choices for airframes and went nuts on research, added naval shipyards, expanded vehicles, and still had enoght to wage a decent war in China and the SRA. You'll be fine, you will just not be able to ships massive amounts out without thinking about your factories at home.

< Message edited by obvert -- 7/1/2012 4:55:25 PM >

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 13
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:04:42 PM   
Dan Nichols


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline 		But keep in mind that most Japanese women have very little hair.

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 14
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:11:42 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Well, i think i can follow the Pax's suggestion (which sounds very wise) to go a little bit slower and see how Dicember 41 goes...if everything goes well i may be able to think about expanding a bit more...

So to say i think i can expand the Zero production only from 56 to 70 (instead of the 133 planned) during the first month and keep the oscar production around 70 too.... this should save something like 70,000 supplies and a lot of HI points.
I could also produce some less Kates (variant 2) for the moment, being producing also the variant 1.

About the Mary...i like the idea, but which production is better to change? One of the 3 oscar factories? The one in Gifu maybe?

(in reply to obvert)
Post #: 15
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:13:25 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

But keep in mind that most Japanese women have very little hair.


You know nothing Dan Nichols (just kidding mate!)

AFAIK...well, as far as i know from internet porn, oriental women tend to be less inclined than western ones to go for the dreaded "fully-bald-mode"

(in reply to Dan Nichols)
Post #: 16
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:15:08 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		I've also followed Damian's suggestion (your guide is excellent!) about switching off 240 armament factory points, expanding the vehicles ones up to 160....so i should have saved some important HI points daily me guess....

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 17
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:21:48 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Well, i think i can follow the Pax's suggestion (which sounds very wise) to go a little bit slower and see how Dicember 41 goes...if everything goes well i may be able to think about expanding a bit more...

So to say i think i can expand the Zero production only from 56 to 70 (instead of the 133 planned) during the first month and keep the oscar production around 70 too.... this should save something like 70,000 supplies and a lot of HI points.
I could also produce some less Kates (variant 2) for the moment, being producing also the variant 1.

About the Mary...i like the idea, but which production is better to change? One of the 3 oscar factories? The one in Gifu maybe?



70 Zero per month ? Do you have any air units using the Claude which you would like to update (CVLs) ?
Again 70 are not much.
In my scenario 2 game i lost 86 Zeros during the first month, but USED 156 because of some unit upgrades and adding reserve planes to the CVs.
I´m producing 120 A6M2 actually in late january 1942.
Saving some HI points and supply is a good thing, but running out of planes when you need them isn´t.....

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 18
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:22:31 PM   
MAurelius


Posts: 152
Joined: 6/28/2012
Status: offline 		indeed - really looking forward to this! :D

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formerly known as SoliInvictus202

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Post #: 19
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:28:17 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		I understand Seille, but so where should i be more conservative? Less Kates and Vals maybe?

(in reply to MAurelius)
Post #: 20
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:39:29 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		HI points aren't that big of a deal for the first 3 months.  Spend them as you need, you will run out of supply before HI.  BUT, after 1 April 42, you want to be sure that you are starting to stockpile and by June 42 you should be stockpiling at least 2000/day.  Many players are stockpiling +5000/day.  You should have a goal, some number of HI you want stockpiled by 6/44.  Call it 4M, 5M, 6M whatever.  Set a goal and be sure that from 42/04/01 you are marching towards that goal.  Once you lose the DEI and the B29's start to pound you, that HI store is all you have to defend Japan until game end.  6M represents 700 days at ~8500 HI/day expenditure, which is a decent economy for IJ in '45.

VEH - you will need at least 160.  Then it will depend upon your losses and your replacement rates.  Mot Squads, Engr Veh, Mot Support, and Armor consume VEH real quick.  Some players are fine at 160.  I've always been VERY unlucky with my rolls and lose a lot of Mot Squads/Support that I have to replace.  I end up with VEH around 250 or so.  Start with 160 and then simply monitor your VEH pool ... you'll know what to do. 

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 21
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:48:08 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I understand Seille, but so where should i be more conservative? Less Kates and Vals maybe?

GJ, just go slow and watch your supply. AFter PH, you'll know how many KAtes/Vals you need to replace early on. Unless your opponent is a 'nut', you're not likely to see any carrier action for a couple of months, right? Meaning, once you make good your losses, fill out a few groups, you're not too bad. Eventually, yes, you might want 45 or 60 Kates/month. But do you need them in Dec? Jan? or Feb?

The decision isn't about what you final run rate is, but rather what is your priority. What will you ramp in Dec and IF you get tight on supply, which factories will you hold up on and which ones will continue to expand. Have that figured out in advance. Then watch your supply. If it gets too low (I don't let my supply in the HI drop below 700K*), then stop some expansion until your supply is where you want/need it. It isn't hard, it just requires that you monitor very carefully.

*This may seem high, but you have to have at least 10K in each base that wants to expand, then you need some float as the supply model isn't perfect (don't want to starve a critical base), and then you have to have a reserve. For me, that tallies up to 700K. Some are more conservative, some much less. I think Mike uses 400K in Tokyo as his barameter.

_____________________________

Pax

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Post #: 22
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 5:54:38 PM   
Encircled


Posts: 2024
Joined: 12/30/2010
From: Northern England
Status: offline 		As the original greyjoy aar was one of the ones that made me buy this game, I'll be following this with interest.

I expect nothing less than an invasion of CONUS if/when the Allies have everything south of Okinawa.

_____________________________


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Post #: 23
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 6:02:08 PM   
seille

 

Posts: 2134
Joined: 6/19/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Yes, increase step by step. No need to set the plane production target to 100% right now.
Litlle steps. Start with 80 Zeros, then 100, then 120 when you feel you´ll need them. You can later turn off the aircraft factories when your pool
reached decent numbers.

You asked for Vals and Kates. I´m producing 48 Kates and 40 Vals and i have less than 20 in my pools yet for both.

Let me tell you a story that happened in one of my learning matches against NY59Giants. Due to terrible shore bombardments and some heavy 4E attacks i lost
about 100 Zeros in a few days of fighting in New Caledonia. That´s why i think you should not put too hard limits at your plane production.
For me it is better to have bigger facs which you can turn on and off as you need. The key is to increase slowly and keep an eye at supply levels.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 24
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 7:00:49 PM   
Grfin Zeppelin


Posts: 1515
Joined: 12/3/2007
From: Germany
Status: offline 		Oscars (1c) are also important. You want to replace your frontline Nates asap with Oscar 1cs. 90 is a good number to aim for but shut them of if they start to stockpile in your pool. they will be replaced with the Toho in a few months but until them you need them.

But as said before. Watch your supply. Dont worry if overall supply is going down for a few days tho.

< Message edited by Gräfin Zeppelin -- 7/1/2012 7:01:27 PM >

_____________________________



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Post #: 25
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 7:36:30 PM   
Captain Cruft


Posts: 3652
Joined: 3/17/2004
From: England
Status: offline 		Personally, I would only increase fighter production and just leave everything else at default except Vehicles which must be increased. The key at the start, as everyone has said, is not to change everything all at once. Do it incrementally.

(in reply to Grfin Zeppelin)
Post #: 26
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 9:02:50 PM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		BANZAI and good luck, GJ.

Now the great question of our time:

WHO... IS... MISTER X?

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Post #: 27
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 11:25:17 PM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Ok guys, i got the message!

I have re-done the whole air production thing in a more conservative way....

Now i have to dry my tears for the EuroCup final.... will get back to you tomorrow.... night guys

And thanks a lot!!!

GJ

(in reply to Cribtop)
Post #: 28
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/1/2012 11:51:54 PM   
princep01

 

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
Status: offline 		Cheerio, Greyjoy of the Iron Isles.  We will cock an eye and watch this effort with interest from the comfort of Dreadfort Castle.  Japan expects and all.

In order to master Japanese production, you must, of course, swear off all women and alcoholic beverages for one week.  A great sacrific, no doubt, but entirely necessary.  I, on the other hand, do not as I shall only observe and occasionally comment on your latest disasters.

But, really, enjoy the game and good luck!


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 29
RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/2/2012 1:02:08 AM   
Cribtop


Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline 		Don't feel bad about Italy, GJ. They had a great tournament, played above themselves at times, ignored the controversy, and did good things. You'll always have Balottelli's goals against Germany.

La Roja is just about unbeatable. I'll say this, they played more aggressively than the usual boring midfield keep away stuff.

_____________________________


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Post #: 30
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