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RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:16:38 PM

Encircled

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In a word, no

You don't need to do it

You can get DEI and Singapore pretty much for free if you do it methodically and sensibly, so why risk it?

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Post #: 181

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:18:33 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Encircled

In a word, no

You don't need to do it

You can get DEI and Singapore pretty much for free if you do it methodically and sensibly, so why risk it?

Cause, if the gamble works, i could get singapore by the end of 1941...which will speed a lot the whole operations in DEI-SRA, not giving the allies time to build up strong defences somehwere

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Post #: 182

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:22:11 PM

Encircled

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But you run the risk of heavy casualties in ships, men and aircraft.

I'm not a Jap player at all, but I know that early reverses can have a massive effect on the Japanese, both material and mental.

If you've got a plan that involves taking Singapore asap for it to work, and you have plenty of air cover, then its probably worth the risk.

If you haven't got air cover, then it probably isn't

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Post #: 183

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:22:17 PM

ny59giants

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Mersing - one of the two Aussie brigades start here. You are landing with a whole division. Where is your samurai spirit?? LRCAP your transports from Kota Bharu with Oscars to supplement what you LRCAP from Kaga and company. I might set their altitude at 7k as he might come in at 2k to try to get below your LRCAP if you have everybody set at 20k.

Look for Dutch bombers coming out the size 2 AF two hexes south of Medan on Sumatra. Brad mentioned doing this on a thread a while ago.

The Dutch subs can be a real "PITA" in the early days.

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 7/13/2012 7:23:03 PM >

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Post #: 184

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:32:28 PM

Canoerebel

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You will never get Sngapore in December 1941. Even against a player who gets caught with his pants down, you won't. But against a player of Brad's caliber, not a prayer, no matter how well the Mersing Gambit goes. Best case scenario for Singapore is usually February 1942, though a botch job by the Aliles and a full commitment by Japan could change that to January, I think.

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Post #: 185

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:39:41 PM

ny59giants

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Sorry to bust your bubble Dan, but I took Singapore on Dec 31st in my oldest game as Japan playing Scenario 2. Yes, I did send 6 divisions to Malaya.

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Post #: 186

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:43:51 PM

Walloc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

His subs are already giving me headhaces... 1 AV sunk near Miri and several attacks against my shippings near Luzon...how did Rader manage to counter every single of my sub attack!?

I havent read the start of u and radar's AAR so i wont comment on why in that case, but generally speaking. Luck, doing invasions/using sea routes that is predicetable works against you. Things u can do and i've seen them used with great effect even this early. Navsrc/ASW. No wont damage any subs with that start skill lvls but just spotting them is enough. A spotted sub is much less effective. Which brings to mind, how do u use u AVs?
Those are great to provide planes for spotting subs this early.

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
His fleets are fleeing without much opposition. I have placed several subs near Manila and mined Bataan, positioning 2 flottillas of DDs right in front of Manila... all the ships managed to get out safely!
Same for HK....my DDs didn't find anyone and his ships are moving freely.... My Betties from Takao managed to score some hits but i had hoped to catch them mostly with my DDs.... it didn't happen.

Did they have react on? and were they using settings that override reacting? how was ur NAVsearch?(btw its a bad thing to react into Bataan)

Kind regards,

Rasmus

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Post #: 187

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 7:46:41 PM

Canoerebel

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I don't know the circumstances in your game, MIchael, but it's not going to happen against Q-Ball.

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Post #: 188

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 8:40:29 PM

jeffk3510

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I am with Dan on this one GJ...

I think going that route loses the game for you in Dec 41 in the long run vs 43 or so..

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Post #: 189

RE: Let's start! - 7/13/2012 9:22:25 PM

JocMeister

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There is no need for you to gamble this early! You have absolute superiority. If you are going to do something do it properly or not at all (swedish saying btw)!

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Post #: 190

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 2:52:30 AM

princep01

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Hummmm, perhaps Kuantan as an alternative to Mersing? It's an AF much closer to Singapore than those in the north and almost certainly will not be as well defended as Mersing. Sounds like he is working hard to deny the Mersing Gambit, so why impale your trooper on it and give those stringbags in Singapore a nice, fat convenient shipping target well within escort range of his fighters.

There is not need to rush things and take unnecessary risks if you think he is gearing up to stop the Mersing thing. Kuantan is an easy diversion, too. No big risk, nice AF to be had and zap a few Allied defenders before they run into Singers or export themselves to Palembang.

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Post #: 191

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 11:35:55 AM

GreyJoy

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uhm....My Samurai spirit is tempted to risk....but, at the same time, i know Japan cannot risk too much at this early stage...

...I'll maximise the CAP over my ships and will try to get closer....based upon my tests it seems that i can hope to land before he can reinforce Mersing too much...

In two days now we could be landing.... i'd love the idea to decimate his buffaloes in a single massive air battle over my CVs....

Heavy recon ordered in the hexes around Mersing...i wanna have a precise idea of what i'm facing there. If tomorrow, when we'll be closer, things won't look too grimm, i'll land. If not, we'll diverto towards Kuantan and Amen.

In Luzon, we now have a lvl 3 AF operating at San Fernando, and two more lvl 1 Afs at Vigan and Aparri. Recon planes and fighters have already been based there, while we have intensified the air ASW duties....all the subs from Manila are now operating through those waters between Formosa and Luzon and my naval ASW is terrible as you know...

His ships are fleeing east, moving south from Manila and then east towards the open pacific waters...i've dispatched a couple of DD flottillas...hopefully they will catch something tomorrow....

all my AVs, since day 1, are scouting for ASW and naval search duties....but his subs remain a terrible threat! Considering how bad it went the PH raid it was probably better to go for Manila on dec 7....oh well, live and learn!

In Luzon he seems to be fortifying Manila and Clark, as usual. I'll push forward towards Clark with the reinforced division i landed at San Fernando.

I fear the presence of the AVG in China....moved a full zero daitai there to escort my bombers and sweep his forward AFs.

KB is now moving towards Wake, to support the wake invasion as planned.

Z Force, Boise, Houston and his CVs are nowehere to be seen...lurking in the shades...

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Post #: 192

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 2:25:20 PM

GreyJoy

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here's a screenshot of Luzon...

On the economic side, we started to convert a bunch of To'su xAKLs into PBs and some Toho and Ehime into carry troops.
At the same time we sent 15 Lima and 15 Akasi to Port Hartur in order to collect resources, 11 Lima to Kejio, 12 Aden to Shangai, 10 Kazu-D to Fusan and a lot of small AKLs to Hokkaido. They will suck all the resources that are stocked there and bring them back to Japan asap!

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 193

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 2:35:59 PM

GreyJoy

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We also started to convert some R&D factories for planes we decided not to research into 0(30) R&D factory for planes we have chosen (ie: all the Tony R&D factories converted to N1K1 and KI-44 IIa and brought them to 30). Just few of them for the moment....no need to hurry

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Post #: 194

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 2:48:58 PM

GreyJoy

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A small reply....

An early conquest of Singapore could mean that it will be possible an early trip to India.... Rader landed in India in our game on the beginning of April....
If Singa falls by the first days of 1942, Java and Sumatra should be finished by the end of Feb.... so in March we could be packing up for India... who knows

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Post #: 195

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 4:00:00 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

Port Hartur

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Post #: 196

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 5:05:30 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

quote:

Port Hartur

that's not very kind of you John....

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Post #: 197

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 5:59:53 PM

GreyJoy

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In China we're slowly repositioning our armies in order to push towards Sian and Changsha. Obviously at first we have to get rid of HK...so i won't report much about China untill that operation is over (it would be boring).

However in China i'm not planning much, apart from conquering the Changsha area and Sian with his industries. If things will go well, then we'll see what we can do for a second chinese phase in the second half of 1942. For the moment, only historical advances.

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RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 6:01:35 PM

GreyJoy

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One small question.... does it make sense to halt musashi and accelerate 3 1944 CVs (while leaving the 1942 CVs as they are) ?

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Post #: 199

RE: Hairy Asian Experiences - GreyJoy (J) vs. Mister X (A) - 7/14/2012 6:16:46 PM

Canoerebel

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GreyJoy,

Whoa! About China, you might have a mindset that could tempt you into a "reinforcing defeat" situation that would be very detrimental to your long-term health. Step back for a second and reconsider what one of your off-the-cuff comments could indicate.

You said that you don't have much in mind for China other than taking or handling the Changsha and Sian sectors. Both of those should be very, very difficult for Japan to take requiring a very large and long commitment of forces. (I've never lost either base in a PBEM, though perhaps that will change in my game with Panzerjaeger Hortlund). If you have the mindset that you'll just "take it easy and be satisfied with taking these bases," then when your moves are stymied you might begin feeding in reinforcements thinking "I just need a little more to take them," when in actuality that's not the case. So reconsider your plans in China with a more open mindset.

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RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 6:21:34 PM

Canoerebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

A small reply....

An early conquest of Singapore could mean that it will be possible an early trip to India.... Rader landed in India in our game on the beginning of April....
If Singa falls by the first days of 1942, Java and Sumatra should be finished by the end of Feb.... so in March we could be packing up for India... who knows

Just call me the "voice of pessimism," but Singapore isn't going to fall in the first days of 1942. Your opponent is very, very tough. He's going to slow you down in many areas. If you have an unrealistically ambitious timetable, you're going to find yourself frustrated, then desperate, then willing to gamble by trying for inside straights to "get yourself back on schedule." That's a recipe for disaster. Against a foe as good as Q-Ball, you need to have well though out plans (as you're doing now) but tempered with realism. Only if some breaks go your way opening some doors will you be able to crash through and do something big early. But that isn't likely.

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RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 6:41:05 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

One small question.... does it make sense to halt musashi and accelerate 3 1944 CVs (while leaving the 1942 CVs as they are) ?

I do .... gives you the possibility of maintaining your CV superiority into late '43 ...

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Post #: 202

RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 6:46:16 PM

GreyJoy

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Dan....no, you're not pessimist. I perfectly understand you. You are realistic.
The fact is that i never opened jap's side before this match. Not even against the AI...so my only "perception" of what is doable, what is easy and what is a tough call for the japs is based on my game against Rader where he seemed to me like an unstoppable train running at 200 mph.... but that vision was distorted by my inexperience and so everything seems to me easy now, while it is not. I get it.
At the same time i know that the first 4 months are vital for Japan. I need to secure the historical perimeter asap in order to be able to defend against allied hordes in 1943/44.... so i'm constantly torn between two dichotomic feelings when i look at the map
"It's easy. Com'on, grab that base asap and then push forward. Those ants won't harm your mighty armies!" ....and then "Wait, remember what you read in the AARs.... war can easily be lost by Japan in the first months.... go slowly but steady"....

....i know....i have much and much to learn.... and my opponent is a very experienced jap player....and probably a jap player is the most dangerous opponent you can find when he plays the allies

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RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 6:46:55 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

One small question.... does it make sense to halt musashi and accelerate 3 1944 CVs (while leaving the 1942 CVs as they are) ?

I do .... gives you the possibility of maintaining your CV superiority into late '43 ...

Thanks Pax! That's what i was looking for!

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RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 6:55:35 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Just call me the "voice of pessimism," but Singapore isn't going to fall in the first days of 1942. Your opponent is very, very tough. He's going to slow you down in many areas. If you have an unrealistically ambitious timetable, you're going to find yourself frustrated, then desperate, then willing to gamble by trying for inside straights to "get yourself back on schedule." That's a recipe for disaster. Against a foe as good as Q-Ball, you need to have well though out plans (as you're doing now) but tempered with realism. Only if some breaks go your way opening some doors will you be able to crash through and do something big early. But that isn't likely.

+1

CR, on the contrary, you are far from the voice of pessimism. Let me show you how.

primary plans. then fallback plans. then contingency plans. then disaster plans. you need to have them all when playing against someone as good as QB. The reason for them all is so that before you launch any operation you can clearly see the price of failure. Always make sure that the fruits of a potential victory are greater than the outcomes you would face in the event of a failure. Your oppoent knows he has to force only one or two failures in '42 for the game to be over in early '44 (or sooner). He also knows all your potential targets and you have a lot of them. He only has to pick a couple and interupt those that you are prepared for ... ooops.

As opposed to your last game:
1. the IJ has little to no recovery capability.
2. you can maintain your offensive, or at least the capability of offensive operations, only as long as you have your carrier dominance. Lose that and you become one dimensional vastly simplifying your opponents decisions.

The combination of the above two items is what makes playing the IJ so difficult as opposed to the allies. It means once you suffer your "Midway" and the allies are aware of it, you are one dimensional (defensive) and worse without a fast reaction force (witness what PZB is able to do on defense with a complete KB even though out numbered). Good Luck!

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RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 7:00:00 PM

PaxMondo

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

One small question.... does it make sense to halt musashi and accelerate 3 1944 CVs (while leaving the 1942 CVs as they are) ?

I do .... gives you the possibility of maintaining your CV superiority into late '43 ...

Thanks Pax! That's what i was looking for!

Actually, what I do is halt the Musashi for a little bit, accelerate all the Unryu's, build a little NSY, halt a bunch of other ships so that I can restart the Musashi. Musashi is effective for me in '43 ... but by '44 it is only allied VP's. I have to do a lot of playing around with ships to get this to happen right ....

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RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 7:12:42 PM

ny59giants

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I'm 6 weeks ahead of you as the Allies. You are playing a mod that has stacking limits. Some of the lessons you learned against Rader no longer apply. No 'death star' in China. You will need to focus on one of those two objectives. In front of Sian, I've pulled back to the woods/jungle/rough hexes that are about 3 to 4 hexes out in a small arc with me meeting the stacking limits. He is trying to break through but it is very difficult with him unable to use a large stack of units to just bulldoze his way through.

Malaya is doable in early Jan '42, if you know how to do it. It took me three games to learn how to do so. The question will be how much an effort Brad puts in stopping a landing at Mersing that will destroy almost all his air force over that one effort. How much of his navy will he commit here?? The key is the priority you place on follow up forces to land behind the 5th Division at Mersing.

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RE: Let's start! - 7/14/2012 10:22:58 PM

witpqs

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GJ,

I have two games going with Babes + stacking limits. The AARs (both from my side as Allies) might give you some ideas about how or how not to handle China.

This game is up to July 1942:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2966329

and

This game is up to May 1942:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2974384

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Post #: 208

RE: Let's start! - 7/15/2012 12:15:33 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

GJ,

I have two games going with Babes + stacking limits. The AARs (both from my side as Allies) might give you some ideas about how or how not to handle China.

This game is up to July 1942:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2966329

and

This game is up to May 1942:
http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2974384

I am already following your first game (the one which is in june 42) and really enjoying it!! it's a constant bloodbath! Your Burma campaign has been thrilling with that constrictor japanese strategy! However it's fearsome from a japanese point of view...
Burma is clearly a pita for Japan even with the stack limits... it's an open door for Indichina and so for northern DEI.... i'm thinking about a long term strategy to prevent it...or at least to postpone the moment when the allies can overcome the japanese Burmese defences.... but the only way seems to try your luck into an Indian campaign...

In China i got the message: no Death Star. Flank and manouvre.... and i know japan has a more mobile army so i have to take advantage of that. Flank and move, flank and move. Pinn the enemy and flank him. Cut his supply routes....

But to do that....to take care of Burma and China... i need first to secure DEI and SRA....and do it fast.

...Oh God, the good days are back....i can't wait for another turn....just as it was with Rader....this game is a drug!!!!!

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Post #: 209

RE: Let's start! - 7/15/2012 12:17:36 AM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

The question will be how much an effort Brad puts in stopping a landing at Mersing that will destroy almost all his air force over that one effort. How much of his navy will he commit here?? The key is the priority you place on follow up forces to land behind the 5th Division at Mersing.

That's what i'm thinking....it's risky, i know....but it gives me the chance to destroy his air force in a single battle.... that would open me the doors for an early Singapore bombing suppression....

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Post #: 210