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The Civil War - 7/22/2012 4:49:49 AM

JeanAllTrekkie
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Posts: 114
Joined: 9/9/2009
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So I have been considering developing the ultimate Civil War game. Ive been developing it over the last few years... design document, some art, and a lot of UI designs. Ive been hoping I didn't have to develop it ... that some developer would come forward and develop a title similar to it. I was hoping that a developer would make the civil war game we all dream of.

Unfortunately thats not happening. As much respect I have for small independent developers they all do the same old same old. And honestly Im sick of it. Its the same game, just different skins and ui. And so went off the deep end and made utter crap... aka Gettysburg Armored Warfare. I have no idea where they get their ideas but this is why we haven't seen a good civil war strategy game since Take Command 2nd Manasas. And its very unlikely we will again. Either they make it too complex with a huge learning curve or too simple.

So I want to do a poll ... and see if its worth my time to make this title. I want to see if you the player would be interested in this project Im considering developing. Now before I tell you about this game I have I want you to know where Im coming from. I work for the largest tech company in the world. Chances are you have one of the produce we make in your own home. I have experience in the gaming industry as well... in fact I was offered to work at Activision many years back. So I'm not new to this. Im telling you this so you know where Im coming from.

The game is a Civil War Strategy & Tactical game. Yes both. Its unlike Forge of Freedom, but shares its idea. The best way I can portray this game is... Civil War General 2 meets Birth of America. What Im planning to do is take the amazing combat system Civil War General 2 had and combine it with the Strategic gameplay of a game like Birth of America. If you are unaware of these games I suggest you google search them and watch some videos to acquaint yourself.

This game is turn based.

In this game you will be given command of either The Union or Confederate armies. You will be in charge of organizing your brigades into Divisions, Corps, & Armies, as well as assigning a leader to each. You will issue policies such as Emancipation Proclamation, Arming Slaves, etc., and engage in diplomacy with foreign powers. When two armies get close ...you zoom in and order your brigades into combat. The whole map is hex based. Its 1 huge map that you zoom in and out of. Now when your zoomed in and fighting a battle it'll look basically like CWG2. Much of the system is based off that game. Its a simple yet powerful system - simple enough for the casual gamer and powerful enough to attract the complex gamers. However when the battle is done and your armies are ready to move away from one another... all you have to do is zoom out ... and instead of selecting 20 brigades for movement... you will have 1 icon to represent that unit and now you can easily move them to another area of the country. Thats how the system works. The strategic map allows you to move your armies.... the tactical map allows you to move your brigades. It is 1 seamless map. No loading screens and no terrain generator.

This game will combine diplomacy, policies, military combat, military organization, supplying your armies, taxing the states, etc. You are given full command of everything you want to do. You can promote leaders like Colonel Jackson to Corp or Army commander or give The 3rd Mississippi Carbines to fight with. The object of this game is to give you full access to do whatever you want to do, yet not overwhelming you with micromanagement.

COMBAT
If you have played Civil War General 2.... its based off that system. The game is brigade based. You control your brigades and move them into hex's to fight enemy units. You can command Infantry, Artillery, Cavalry and leaders. The leaders will improve a nearby brigades organization and morale, which in turn makes them a better fighting unit. Its very easy to have a unit attack. You select them and right click on a enemy unit to engage them. You will also be able to have your infantry and cavalry charge a enemy unit for hand to hand combat. Terrain will be a vital factor in all engagement and can decide the engagement.

DIPLOMACY
Diplomacy is very simple. You can negotiate with England, France, Mexico, or The Union/Confederacy. You will be able to Declare War on foreign powers, improve relations, send gifts, send emissaries or surrender. So if you want to go to war with England... you can ... just bear in mind your going to have to deal with her majesties troops as well as your other enemy (union or confederate)

POLICIES
Whichever country you play you can enact policies. Policies such as Emancipation Proclamation, arming slaves, calling out the militia. Each policy has a positive and negative result. So if you Call out the militia ... chances are the states are not going to be too happy with that. Oh and yes The South in this game can emancipate the slaves and arm them. Like I said you can do whatever you want.

MONEY
The way money works is the more states & cities that you control the more $$$$ you get. So if you liberate New York City from The Union guess what you get more green in your coffers. Also if a State supports your government more... you get more $$$$. If really depends on your actions. So if your the Union and you loose DC you will loose a lot of money and support.

MILITARY
The military is at the heart of this game. Your Armies will decide the fate of your country. You have to take care of them. Each unit has Morale, Health and Organization rating. So if you send a brigade that has a lot of morale, great health but organization is bad... chances are your not going to take the field from that enemy unit. Supply is also a VITAL factor in this game... So if I swing my army around yours and cut you off from the cities that were supplying you... and now you can't supply your troops, which means unless your forces break out ... they won't have ammo to fight back with. Roads are the key to this. Roads are how supplies travel on. If I flank you and take the only road your forces have access to.... your army will eventually loose.

In the military section everything you do there affects your battles. So if I put a lousy commander in charge of a brigade ... they won't do well. But if I put Stonewall in charge... well they will carry the field. Also a couple factors that you can do to make a difference in combat is upgrading a units gear, & rifles. So if your unit has new army uniforms and carbine rifles vs a enemy that has rags for clothes and a 20 year old musket... your gonna win.

So to sum this game up. It is a simple yet powerful game. There is no terrain generator its 1 big map that you zoom in and out of (think of it similar to google maps but easier and better) Commanding units to move and engage the enemy is very easy ... 2 clicks and your brigade attacks. You can participate in diplomacy and policies to affect the wars outlook. This game is unlike the copy and paste games we all see now. Its taking the best of the best and making something better.

And on top of developing this title we are going to do something NO strategy wargaming development company has yet done. MARKETING. I am so shocked when I go to Gettysburg or other civil war reenactments and don't see a single developer there. How can you miss such a opportunity. If I made a civil war game... I would take advantage of these events and get word of my game out to the public. Especially the people who are more than likely to buy it. Many of the people that buy your games go out to these events...you need to talk to them. You need to ask them what they like ... what they disliked. You need this feedback to develop a better game. Yes there are forums but you cannot interact with your fans or prospective buyers the way you can face to face. Also this is a great opportunity to interact with a casual audience. See what type of game will attract them.

On top of this were planning to do a lot more. Gaming conventions, tournaments, tons of youtube videos of how awesome the game is, development diaries, etc. Were going to reach out to every gaming website from IGN to Gamespy and make sure our title is featured on their website. Were going to revitalize this industry.

How? Well it begins right here. Tell me what you think. I would like your feedback. Take a look at some of my concept designs. If I get enough support I plan to do a kickstarter project on kickstarter.com. There you can pledge your donation to the project (for a reward of course ). My projections show that I will need approx 100,000 to get this project off the ground. So read up and let me know with a comment down below.

The concept design screens are in the Attachment. Click 'Attachment' below to view them

Attachment (3)

< Message edited by JeanAllTrekkie -- 7/22/2012 5:04:10 AM >

Post #: 1

RE: The Civil War - 7/22/2012 2:17:09 PM

vonRocko
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If it has an AI, I would play it.

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Post #: 2

RE: The Civil War - 7/22/2012 3:20:51 PM

sullafelix
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I was never to keen on the Civil War Generals games, to me they were pretty simplistic. You didn't have to worry about flanks etc..

Other than that your game design looks fine.

< Message edited by sulla05 -- 7/22/2012 3:21:34 PM >

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RE: The Civil War - 7/22/2012 3:38:54 PM

ilovestrategy
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I'm a single player guy. Like the first reply said, if it has an AI, I'll give it a shot.

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RE: The Civil War - 7/22/2012 3:43:09 PM

junk2drive
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In CWG2 you did have to worry about flanks. At least at the unit level. Side or rear shots were much more damaging than front shots.

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RE: The Civil War - 7/22/2012 5:38:37 PM

JeanAllTrekkie
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Posts: 114
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That's good that you guys would play it but would you buy it. Let's say the title had a box price of $60.

Also sulla05. In this game if your unit is attacked from the rear expect ur unit to break or retreat. Rear attacks will be devastating in this game especially if ur engaging another force toward ur front

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Post #: 6

RE: The Civil War - 7/22/2012 7:13:36 PM

Capt. Harlock
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quote:

Supply is also a VITAL factor in this game... So if I swing my army around yours and cut you off from the cities that were supplying you... and now you can't supply your troops, which means unless your forces break out ... they won't have ammo to fight back with. Roads are the key to this. Roads are how supplies travel on.

Sounds very interesting overall. However, be aware that there were three methods of transport during the Civil War: riverine, railroad, and wagon. Of these, wagons on ordinary roads were the least effective. They could be used once or twice, but after the draft animals had eaten the grass and other fodder nearby, they had to carry their own. This limited amount of other supplies they could carry. If the distance was more than a few days' travel time, they could carry very little in the way of militarily useful cargo.

There was also the problem of rain, which often turned dirt roads into mud -- but I'm not sure if you want that level of detail.

< Message edited by Capt. Harlock -- 7/22/2012 7:15:24 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: The Civil War - 7/22/2012 8:58:32 PM

Alan Sharif
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It sounds very interesting and this is a title I would be likely to BUY.

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Post #: 8

RE: The Civil War - 7/23/2012 5:33:46 AM

Phatguy
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Posts: 1348
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From: Buffalo,ny
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A price point of around 30-50 would probably move many fence-sitters to dust off their wallets. I know 60 would keep my wallet closed up tighter than a virgin in a nunnery. Unless your name was Grigsby..Name recognition can sell at 60 +

But....If it was well done, with the correct bells and whistles i'd seriously think about it.

By bells and whistles I dont mean flashy cgi graphics, half naked strippers at a con, tanks, jets etc etc.. I mean period flavor. Period music and crap like that.....

< Message edited by apathetic lurker -- 7/23/2012 5:42:10 AM >

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Post #: 9

RE: The Civil War - 7/24/2012 9:35:58 AM

histgamer
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Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeanAllTrekkie

So I have been considering developing the ultimate Civil War game. Ive been developing it over the last few years... design document, some art, and a lot of UI designs. Ive been hoping I didn't have to develop it ... that some developer would come forward and develop a title similar to it. I was hoping that a developer would make the civil war game we all dream of.

Unfortunately thats not happening. As much respect I have for small independent developers they all do the same old same old. And honestly Im sick of it. Its the same game, just different skins and ui. And so went off the deep end and made utter crap... aka Gettysburg Armored Warfare. I have no idea where they get their ideas but this is why we haven't seen a good civil war strategy game since Take Command 2nd Manassas. And its very unlikely we will again. Either they make it too complex with a huge learning curve or too simple.

So I want to do a poll ... and see if its worth my time to make this title. I want to see if you the player would be interested in this project Im considering developing. Now before I tell you about this game I have I want you to know where Im coming from. I work for the largest tech company in the world. Chances are you have one of the produce we make in your own home. I have experience in the gaming industry as well... in fact I was offered to work at Activision many years back. So I'm not new to this. Im telling you this so you know where Im coming from.

The game is a Civil War Strategy & Tactical game. Yes both. Its unlike Forge of Freedom, but shares its idea. The best way I can portray this game is... Civil War General 2 meets Birth of America. What Im planning to do is take the amazing combat system Civil War General 2 had and combine it with the Strategic gameplay of a game like Birth of America. If you are unaware of these games I suggest you google search them and watch some videos to acquaint yourself.

This game is turn based.

In this game you will be given command of either The Union or Confederate armies. You will be in charge of organizing your brigades into Divisions, Corps, & Armies, as well as assigning a leader to each. You will issue policies such as Emancipation Proclamation, Arming Slaves, etc., and engage in diplomacy with foreign powers. When two armies get close ...you zoom in and order your brigades into combat. The whole map is hex based. Its 1 huge map that you zoom in and out of. Now when your zoomed in and fighting a battle it'll look basically like CWG2. Much of the system is based off that game. Its a simple yet powerful system - simple enough for the casual gamer and powerful enough to attract the complex gamers. However when the battle is done and your armies are ready to move away from one another... all you have to do is zoom out ... and instead of selecting 20 brigades for movement... you will have 1 icon to represent that unit and now you can easily move them to another area of the country. Thats how the system works. The strategic map allows you to move your armies.... the tactical map allows you to move your brigades. It is 1 seamless map. No loading screens and no terrain generator.

This game will combine diplomacy, policies, military combat, military organization, supplying your armies, taxing the states, etc. You are given full command of everything you want to do. You can promote leaders like Colonel Jackson to Corp or Army commander or give The 3rd Mississippi Carbines to fight with. The object of this game is to give you full access to do whatever you want to do, yet not overwhelming you with micromanagement.

COMBAT
If you have played Civil War General 2.... its based off that system. The game is brigade based. You control your brigades and move them into hex's to fight enemy units. You can command Infantry, Artillery, Cavalry and leaders. The leaders will improve a nearby brigades organization and morale, which in turn makes them a better fighting unit. Its very easy to have a unit attack. You select them and right click on a enemy unit to engage them. You will also be able to have your infantry and cavalry charge a enemy unit for hand to hand combat. Terrain will be a vital factor in all engagement and can decide the engagement.

DIPLOMACY
Diplomacy is very simple. You can negotiate with England, France, Mexico, or The Union/Confederacy. You will be able to Declare War on foreign powers, improve relations, send gifts, send emissaries or surrender. So if you want to go to war with England... you can ... just bear in mind your going to have to deal with her majesties troops as well as your other enemy (union or confederate)

POLICIES
Whichever country you play you can enact policies. Policies such as Emancipation Proclamation, arming slaves, calling out the militia. Each policy has a positive and negative result. So if you Call out the militia ... chances are the states are not going to be too happy with that. Oh and yes The South in this game can emancipate the slaves and arm them. Like I said you can do whatever you want.

MONEY
The way money works is the more states & cities that you control the more $$$$ you get. So if you liberate New York City from The Union guess what you get more green in your coffers. Also if a State supports your government more... you get more $$$$. If really depends on your actions. So if your the Union and you loose DC you will loose a lot of money and support.

MILITARY
The military is at the heart of this game. Your Armies will decide the fate of your country. You have to take care of them. Each unit has Morale, Health and Organization rating. So if you send a brigade that has a lot of morale, great health but organization is bad... chances are your not going to take the field from that enemy unit. Supply is also a VITAL factor in this game... So if I swing my army around yours and cut you off from the cities that were supplying you... and now you can't supply your troops, which means unless your forces break out ... they won't have ammo to fight back with. Roads are the key to this. Roads are how supplies travel on. If I flank you and take the only road your forces have access to.... your army will eventually loose.

In the military section everything you do there affects your battles. So if I put a lousy commander in charge of a brigade ... they won't do well. But if I put Stonewall in charge... well they will carry the field. Also a couple factors that you can do to make a difference in combat is upgrading a units gear, & rifles. So if your unit has new army uniforms and carbine rifles vs a enemy that has rags for clothes and a 20 year old musket... your gonna win.

So to sum this game up. It is a simple yet powerful game. There is no terrain generator its 1 big map that you zoom in and out of (think of it similar to google maps but easier and better) Commanding units to move and engage the enemy is very easy ... 2 clicks and your brigade attacks. You can participate in diplomacy and policies to affect the wars outlook. This game is unlike the copy and paste games we all see now. Its taking the best of the best and making something better.

And on top of developing this title we are going to do something NO strategy wargaming development company has yet done. MARKETING. I am so shocked when I go to Gettysburg or other civil war reenactments and don't see a single developer there. How can you miss such a opportunity. If I made a civil war game... I would take advantage of these events and get word of my game out to the public. Especially the people who are more than likely to buy it. Many of the people that buy your games go out to these events...you need to talk to them. You need to ask them what they like ... what they disliked. You need this feedback to develop a better game. Yes there are forums but you cannot interact with your fans or prospective buyers the way you can face to face. Also this is a great opportunity to interact with a casual audience. See what type of game will attract them.

On top of this were planning to do a lot more. Gaming conventions, tournaments, tons of youtube videos of how awesome the game is, development diaries, etc. Were going to reach out to every gaming website from IGN to Gamespy and make sure our title is featured on their website. Were going to revitalize this industry.

How? Well it begins right here. Tell me what you think. I would like your feedback. Take a look at some of my concept designs. If I get enough support I plan to do a kickstarter project on kickstarter.com. There you can pledge your donation to the project (for a reward of course ). My projections show that I will need approx 100,000 to get this project off the ground. So read up and let me know with a comment down below.

The concept design screens are in the Attachment. Click 'Attachment' below to view them

Take Command 2nd Manassas isn't dead. So to say we will never see another good Civil War game seems a bit odd.

Scourge of War Gettysburg was released by one of the developers from the Take Command series and is an evolution upon the original take command series. They have also released map expansions for Gettysburg which include the battles of Antietam and hypothetical Pipe Creek.

I know some people on here wont support the new Scourge of War series because there was some kind of dispute between the two original developers of Take Command but that's for another topic.

Anyway here's a link of a video of the gameplay of the Scourge of War game if your unaware it exists. I didn't link to their home page because honestly I know some people here wouldn't like the idea of someone appearing to promote a game they think the developer did some shady things to make. I'm not sure where I stand on that issue but as I said that's for another discussion. Scourge of War - Gettysburg

< Message edited by flanyboy -- 7/24/2012 9:37:47 AM >

(in reply to JeanAllTrekkie)

Post #: 10

RE: The Civil War - 7/26/2012 4:15:27 AM

JeanAllTrekkie
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 114
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

Scourge of War Gettysburg is a good game, but its a long way from pushing the boundary forward. The game is basically Take Command 2nd Manassas but with a Gettysburg setting. I appreciate the work that team has done on the game, so much in fact that Im planning to buy it... and for me to spend my money on something it has to be worth my while. The few things I would recommend them to change is...

1. A Massive Graphics overhaul
If the game wants to update The Take Command graphics it needs a full overhaul. It needs to display graphics similar to the level of detail Empire Total War displays. It needs to replicate the full carnage of war. Destroyed burning houses, bodies throughout the field, wounded crawling to safety, down to the individual reaction of each soldier.

2. More Simplicity
The one grievance I have with the game is the difficulty in moving units. Yes I know this is more historically accurate, however we are playing a game. Developers need to keep that in mind when developing. Too much historically accuracy will distance your casual gamer and you want to appeal to both your casual and strategy gamer. A Few suggestions I have.... 1. Easier unit movement (the current system needs to be polished much more). 2. Too many commands for the casual gamer... when you have dozens of regiments and 2 dozen command for each regiment... thats where it gets too much for a casual player. Have the AI take care of some of those commands such as oblique left & right for example. 3. Provide a better mini map - one that isn't confusing to understand. Instead of red or blue icons... use red and blue bars. This has a major difference to the player. If you ever stop by The Gettysburg Museum get some feedback from people... do they understand what the videos show them... why is it easier to understand. All this makes a difference. 4. Allow the player to issue commands from the mini map 5. BRIGADES - The most important. Once you start putting hundreds of regiments on the map... things get confusing fast. Set the Brigade to be the smallest unit.... with the option to split that unit into regiments if the player needs.

Those are but a few suggestions I would make to The SOW Gettysburg Team.... oh and MARKET your game. If this was my title... I would be at The Gettysburg reenactment in a kiosk hosting tournaments among event goers. You not only attract a large audience when doing this but develop your community. And a few hundred sales doesn't hurt either lol. Also I would make sure this game would be in every gift shop in Gettysburg. Marketing is the key to EVERY product. Marketing is a CRUCIAL necessity of EVERY product. Trust me I know I work for the largest Tech company in the world.

Thats my 2 cents

(in reply to histgamer)

Post #: 11

RE: The Civil War - 7/26/2012 7:49:41 AM

histgamer
Matrix Elite Guard

Posts: 1455
Joined: 11/30/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeanAllTrekkie
oh and MARKET your game. If this was my title... I would be at The Gettysburg reenactment in a kiosk hosting tournaments among event goers. You not only attract a large audience when doing this but develop your community. And a few hundred sales doesn't hurt either lol. Also I would make sure this game would be in every gift shop in Gettysburg. Marketing is the key to EVERY product. Marketing is a CRUCIAL necessity of EVERY product. Trust me I know I work for the largest Tech company in the world.

Thats my 2 cents

From what I have heard there are legal issues with marketing their products on Gettysburg grounds because the national park service decides what can be sold there and they haven't been able to get into the shops and grounds to sell their product or market their product there yet. Though supposedly they had a breakthrough recently and will be in the gift shops there at the least. Not sure if they will be able to sell at events.

(in reply to JeanAllTrekkie)

Post #: 12

RE: The Civil War - 7/26/2012 5:17:22 PM

jeffk3510
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Posts: 4132
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From: Kansas
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I played CWG and CWG2 more than any game I have.. couldn't get enough of it. Bought FoF...really like the concept, however the battles make we want more...I really liked the battles in CWG.

I would love a game with the overall design of FoF, but have the battles more like CWG2..they are similar, but I prefer CWG2...

I also played SMGettysburg A LOT..however, I think on the grand scheme of things, a RTS game of that size would be impossible to control.. UNLESS... you have a main map design and gameplay like FoF.. with the battles in real time.

So, like the others before me, I would play your game. If I don't like it, worst case, I am out a few bucks, supported you, and I move on.

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(in reply to histgamer)

Post #: 13

RE: The Civil War - 7/26/2012 5:28:06 PM

jeffk3510
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Posts: 4132
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From: Kansas
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I think the more in depth the game is instead of fancy graphics and crap, the better IMO.

Sid Meiers was simple, straight forward, graphics were not too bad. CWG2 has a lot to offer, and I dont play it for the graphics.

WiTPAE for example..If I wanted to play a game with outstanding graphics, I would play a current flight simulator..however, AE is SO indepth, it is the only game I have played from the day I bought it, and never got bored with it.

A Civil War game that allows you control over EVERY aspect that went into the war would make for a worthy game. Not just the battles, or the generals, or the politics side of things. Everything. You don't need to be able to zoom in so close to the soldiers that you can tell from their buttons what state they were from. You need to be able to effectively select them by mouse click in the game and move them around without much headache or thought (CWG2) instead.

I really like that it is based off of the combat style of CWG2

< Message edited by jeffk3510 -- 7/26/2012 5:30:03 PM >

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Post #: 14

RE: The Civil War - 7/26/2012 6:09:35 PM

parusski
Matrix Legion of Merit

Posts: 4804
Joined: 5/8/2000
From: Jackson Tn
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: apathetic lurker

A price point of around 30-50 would probably move many fence-sitters to dust off their wallets. I know 60 would keep my wallet closed up tighter than a virgin in a nunnery. Unless your name was Grigsby..Name recognition can sell at 60 +

But....If it was well done, with the correct bells and whistles i'd seriously think about it.

By bells and whistles I dont mean flashy cgi graphics, half naked strippers at a con, tanks, jets etc etc.. I mean period flavor. Period music and crap like that.....

I agree with Mr. lurk. $30-50 would without a doubt be the right price range.

But I disagree about the half naked stippers, I would like to see those girls on tanks(in this case caissons).

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Post #: 15

RE: The Civil War - 7/27/2012 4:35:23 AM

JeanAllTrekkie
Matrix Trooper

Posts: 114
Joined: 9/9/2009
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: flanyboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: JeanAllTrekkie
oh and MARKET your game. If this was my title... I would be at The Gettysburg reenactment in a kiosk hosting tournaments among event goers. You not only attract a large audience when doing this but develop your community. And a few hundred sales doesn't hurt either lol. Also I would make sure this game would be in every gift shop in Gettysburg. Marketing is the key to EVERY product. Marketing is a CRUCIAL necessity of EVERY product. Trust me I know I work for the largest Tech company in the world.

Thats my 2 cents

From what I have heard there are legal issues with marketing their products on Gettysburg grounds because the national park service decides what can be sold there and they haven't been able to get into the shops and grounds to sell their product or market their product there yet. Though supposedly they had a breakthrough recently and will be in the gift shops there at the least. Not sure if they will be able to sell at events.

Your right. But I wasn't thinking about The Museum's gift shop. There are literally dozens of Civil War gift shops and museums within Gettysburg itself. Each filled with tourists every year shopping for that perfect Civil War item to take home. Thats where you need to market too. One place in particular attracts a great deal of tourists.

The main area where a development company should provide the most in marketing is at The Official Civil War Reenactment. This Reenactment event is hosted by The Gettysburg Civil War Battle Reenactment. They are not involved with The Park Service. The land they use is rented from private owners. So it should be much easier renting a kiosk during the event and showcasing your product.

< Message edited by JeanAllTrekkie -- 7/27/2012 4:39:31 AM >

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Post #: 16