Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

Mid December 1942, Mk 14 dud rate still 80%. Come back when you have passed 1 September, 1943 and tell us how many duds you got since then.

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ORIGINAL: jeffk3510

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ORIGINAL: nashvillen

It is Japan's secret anti-sub-torp de-gauss field. It causes magnetic torps to not detonate.

And, yes, I am a JFB. Although, I am currently dabbling in the allied cause and am cursing the same device.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
[...]In my opinion this part of the game is deficient.....Right now subs being trained up...commander/leaders with decent rating and its still awaste...then torps that only seem to work against less important. Game is now in Mid Dec 42.[...]

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ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
[...]In my opinion this part of the game is deficient.....Right now subs being trained up...commander/leaders with decent rating and its still awaste...then torps that only seem to work against less important. Game is now in Mid Dec 42.[...]

Every allied player knows the feeling when hitting major combatants early war.

You are suspecting a CV hull conspiracy? Please don´t tell me that was meant in earnest.

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ORIGINAL: 1275psi

I think you need to read my AAR, its Oct 43...........and how many CVs have I had hit and damaged now as Japan.........too bloody many (4, or is it 5 now)
cantona's SS fleet is literally terrorising me........... I cant go anywhere with out being spotted, hunted, attacked, harrassed.
Half the merchant fleet is gone.............
If you get into 43 or later, believe me, SS are lethal.

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ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
[...]In my opinion this part of the game is deficient.....Right now subs being trained up...commander/leaders with decent rating and its still awaste...then torps that only seem to work against less important. Game is now in Mid Dec 42.[...]

Every allied player knows the feeling when hitting major combatants early war.

You are suspecting a CV hull conspiracy? Please don´t tell me that was meant in earnest.

Also you chose a weird time to complain. You only got a couple of days to go until it gets better. My sink (not hit) rate with MK14s is probably one ship
every 2-3 days in late ´43, for about a year already, and I don´t consider myself the best silent service player.

Besides damageing fleet CVs 3-4 times, we sank a CVL, a CVE and a BB with sub launched torps.

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ORIGINAL: Puhis

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ORIGINAL: LoBaron

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ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
[...]In my opinion this part of the game is deficient.....Right now subs being trained up...commander/leaders with decent rating and its still awaste...then torps that only seem to work against less important. Game is now in Mid Dec 42.[...]

Every allied player knows the feeling when hitting major combatants early war.

You are suspecting a CV hull conspiracy? Please don´t tell me that was meant in earnest.

Maybe I should tell him that in my PBEM game allies have torpedoed CV Hiyo 3 times now. That ship have spent more time in repair yard than actually sailing with rest of the KB. Once she took 3 torpedo hits, and saving that ships was a miracle.

At the moment Zuikaku is also in repair yard, because of sub's torpedo.

So and are probably right...

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ORIGINAL: moonraker

Sounds like bad luck. I've been playing the RA 4.6 mod as the Allies and I sunk 2 of their CVL's and got 3 hits on Zuikaku whilst they were busy supporting their forces invading the DEI

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ORIGINAL: crsutton
Most annoying thing to me is the targeting formula. If the enemy has an escorted convoy then my subs tend to target the escort over the valuable cargo ships.

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ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

NO, I am not saying there is a CV Hull conspiracy.....I am saying if and when my subs launch a torpedo and it exsplodes it usually against a lesser target...that is all nothing more nothing less. But 99% of the time if a Japanese CV pop's into the picture and sub launches the torpedo will not fire. I know the answer before I see played out. I no what I see, and I KNOW what happens into 43' and 44'.

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ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
[...]In my opinion this part of the game is deficient.....Right now subs being trained up...commander/leaders with decent rating and its still awaste...then torps that only seem to work against less important. Game is now in Mid Dec 42.[...]

Every allied player knows the feeling when hitting major combatants early war.

You are suspecting a CV hull conspiracy? Please don´t tell me that was meant in earnest.

Also you chose a weird time to complain. You only got a couple of days to go until it gets better. My sink (not hit) rate with MK14s is probably one ship
every 2-3 days in late ´43, for about a year already, and I don´t consider myself the best silent service player.

Besides damageing fleet CVs 3-4 times, we sank a CVL, a CVE and a BB with sub launched torps.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89

NO, I am not saying there is a CV Hull conspiracy.....I am saying if and when my subs launch a torpedo and it exsplodes it usually against a lesser target...that is all nothing more nothing less. But 99% of the time if a Japanese CV pop's into the picture and sub launches the torpedo will not fire. I know the answer before I see played out. I no what I see, and I KNOW what happens into 43' and 44'.

quote:

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

quote:

ORIGINAL: Titanwarrior89
[...]In my opinion this part of the game is deficient.....Right now subs being trained up...commander/leaders with decent rating and its still awaste...then torps that only seem to work against less important. Game is now in Mid Dec 42.[...]

Every allied player knows the feeling when hitting major combatants early war.

You are suspecting a CV hull conspiracy? Please don´t tell me that was meant in earnest.

Also you chose a weird time to complain. You only got a couple of days to go until it gets better. My sink (not hit) rate with MK14s is probably one ship
every 2-3 days in late ´43, for about a year already, and I don´t consider myself the best silent service player.

Besides damageing fleet CVs 3-4 times, we sank a CVL, a CVE and a BB with sub launched torps.

The issue in this case is not game-mechanic but perception related. I will try to show you why.


Ask yourself what the relation is between major combatants and what you call "lesser targets". This relation is directly
proportional to your chances to get into an attack position on the respective vessels. It is probably around 1:75+ Major Targets:Lesser Targets.

Consider that warships, even large ones as fleet CVs are usually much harder to hit than the 24/7 prey.

The IJN CVs have a mvr value between 22 (poor Shinano) and 33 (Hyriu/Soryu class), a topspeed lowest at 24, but
usually ranging from 28-33kts. And they probably need an average of 3-4 torps for an assured kill.

Now compare this to the average IJN xAK max speed usually about 12kts, at best those few 18kts Kyushu Cargo runners,
and add to that mvr values not an inch better than the carriers. Close to all of them can be sunk with 1-2 torps or
deck gun.
Then think about the CVs driven by high exp and high skill commanders - no Japanese player neglects his carriers, while the usual
AK captain runs around with 15-20 naval skill. In addition the crew exp delta between those two classes is usually extreme.

Now take into account that it is in hindsight very difficult to discern if you just missed the target in a specific instance, or whether
the torpedo was a dud. It is not so easy to discern as one might think, at least I made this experience while bitnin into my keyboard
after another failed attack on a IJN warship...

And finally consider the difference in excitement when you see the crosshairs pointed at a CV compared to the usual AK or PB.

So to sum it up:

- A CV is rare, the relation attacks on CVs to attacks on AKs is probably worse than 1:50, and this is a conservative guess.
- It has a much higher chance to evade attack as the ship is faster, the commander is better, the crew has more exp.
- In case of a single hit an AK has a rough 50% chance to sink, a CV might just laugh and shrug it off.
- If you dud on a CV you might want to throw something at something. If you dud on an AK you don´t care to much,
usually you have forgotten it pretty soon, and theres a nice chance that the second torp hits as well and sinks it.


Your enemy CVs are much tougher to find, engage, hit, and sink than your enemy AKs. With torps at 90% dud rate even more.
This is what you see. Thats neither news nor is it mysterious.