RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 8:20:27 PM

Capt. Harlock

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quote:

China: Seven stout Chinese divisions converge in a wooded-rough hex NE of Sian and overwhelm two small Chinese infantry units.

This must be from where we get the phrase "Chinese fire drill". (I assume the seven divisions were actually IJA?)

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 8:32:20 PM

witpqs

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

China: Seven stout Chinese divisions converge in a wooded-rough hex NE of Sian and overwhelm two small Chinese infantry units.

Who won, the Nationalists or the Communists?

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 8:35:49 PM

Walloc

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

China: Seven stout Chinese divisions converge in a wooded-rough hex NE of Sian and overwhelm two small Chinese infantry units. This will force me to contract my MLR once again and heightens the threat to Sian.

I didnt think AE showed the chinese civil war. Guess i were wrong. It comes at an inoppertune moment, sorry to hear CR.

Rasmus

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 8:38:09 PM

Canoerebel

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Ack!

Why did I think I could write for a living?

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 8:42:48 PM

Cap Mandrake

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I also wonder where one would find 7 divisions worth of "stout Chinese" in 1942.

Those guys were darn skinny back then. Perhaps if there were some kind of referral system so all the chubby ones could be aggregated, sort of like that regiment of tall Prussians the Kaiser had.

We aren't being annoying, are we CR?

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 8:55:04 PM

Canoerebel

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 8:55:19 PM

Canoerebel

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 9:17:52 PM

ny59giants

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quote:

I also wonder where one would find 7 divisions worth of "stout Chinese" in 1942.

Those guys were darn skinny back then. Perhaps if there were some kind of referral system so all the chubby ones could be aggregated, sort of like that regiment of tall Prussians the Kaiser had.

Wasn't Food Stamps part of the "Lend Lease" program??

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 10:09:10 PM

Canoerebel

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4/10/42

India: I lost sight of the KB again, though she's somewhere close to Ceylon. Vals sank an xAKL to the SE (true). I don't think Steve's coming for Diego Garcia, but if he is, we may have a carrier battle tomorrow. The Allied carriers will take station about two hexes due south. 18th UK Div. is aboard transports that will be a bit further south. I set home base for the carrier TFs and accompaning TFs to Mombassa, just in case calamity strikes. Pucker time.

China: Steve has an army 100k strong in the forests northeast of Sian. I have an army capable of standing up to it, but the Japanese may be able to get to the open terrain near Sian. If so, I may have to abandon Sian and pull further back to consolidate my lines. That in turn will threaten the Lanchow wing of the army. So I may be fighting like Joe Johnston during the Atlanta Campaign after all.

North America: Quiet. Sara and York will refuel in two or three days. I have until then to determine where I wish to use them.

Oz: Japan takes Port Headland. I think Exmouth is next.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 10:22:50 PM

JohnDillworth

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quote:

Ack!

Why did I think I could write for a living?

You want to turn yourself in to GreyJoy or just assume he will read the AAR.

Might be a push, but I think a Stout for the stout. Drink up

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 10:29:13 PM

desicat

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quote:

China: Steve has an army 100k strong in the forests northeast of Sian. I have an army capable of standing up to it, but the Japanese may be able to get to the open terrain near Sian. If so, I may have to abandon Sian and pull further back to consolidate my lines. That in turn will threaten the Lanchow wing of the army. So I may be fighting like Joe Johnston during the Atlanta Campaign after all.

Any chance of getting a map shot with comments?

...and not this one....

< Message edited by desicat -- 8/9/2012 10:31:47 PM >

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 10:51:08 PM

Cap Mandrake

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Nice analogy to the defense of Atlanta. Let's hope it ends differently.

Now.....this is somewhat difficult...but I think someone has to say it.

Do you two not have jobs? We don't want to read some story on AP

"Georgia Backwoodsman Found Dead After 78 hr Orgy of Geeky Online Strategy Game"

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 10:56:32 PM

Canoerebel

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Here are the relative positions of the two carrier forces.

I think the KB is covering for an invasion of Ceylon or India's east coast (Viz). There's a chance the target could be west coast (unlikely) or Diego (possible, but I don't think so).
I've positioned my carriers here so that they can:

Raid Sumatra if Steve gets tied down to Ceylon
Come up behind the KB in the unlikely event Steve heads towards the West Coast
Cover Diego if circumstances appear favorable.

Attachment (1)

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 11:05:22 PM

Canoerebel

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You didn't ask, but how could I resist?

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/9/2012 11:13:11 PM

desicat

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quote:

Nice analogy to the defense of Atlanta. Let's hope it ends differently.

Since you live there, how is Gen Johnston remembered around Atlanta? Is he considered incompetent or just outgunned? (I personally think he made the best out of an impossible situation.) Sorry to be off topic.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 12:08:32 AM

Canoerebel

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Johnston is widely admired in the South. He is viewed as an able tactician that had an impossible task. I think most people are aware that his troops thought very highly of him also.

That brings up an interesting point. What is the general perception of Confederate generals in the south today:

Elite: Lee, Jackson, Forrest. Stuart, Longstreet
Very Good: Johnston, Johnson, Early, Gordon, A.P. Hill, Hood (at least as a divisional commander),
Good: Wheeler (probably inflated), Cleburne, Hardee, Polk, Pickett
Mediocre: Buckner, Beuregard, D.H. Hill, McLaws
Below Average: Cheatham, Breckenridge, Pemberton
Poor: Ewell
Terrible: Bragg

Those are just some off-the-cuff estimates.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 12:17:19 AM

Canoerebel

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4/11/42

Carriers: The KB is SW (true) of Trivandrum, close to North Male Island. That's pretty deep into Indian Country. I still show the same number of aircraft. My carriers will steam due north. If Steve heads any further into the Arabian Sea, I'll come in behind him if I can.

Quandary: I have a variety of TFs inbound from Capetown. Obviously, I'd turn them around or hold them far from harm's way until the situation resolved. But I don't think I can recall them or give them any orders now. I've mentioned this to Steve and asked him to keep away from map's edge for a time until I can handle this.

India: 8th Marines now has two hexes of separation from the pursing Japanese divisions. 5th Div. and Imperial Guards is pretty far out there now, but I won't molest them until I know where the threat is (don't want to forsake Bombay and Karachi until I know what's happening). Socatra airfield just went to level four. Most of a US Army RCT will arrive here tonight aboard Queen Mary (this base is still very, very distant from the KB).

China: Waiting to see what's next for the pressure points along the MLR.

North America: SigInt that 2nd Div. is aboard a maru bound for Umnak. If true, that division may be leaving North America and heading somewhere else. Sara and York refuel tomorrow. A surface combat TF departs Pearl and heads northeast to be in position just in case I move the carriers north, though I'm much more inclined at the moment to move south.

Oz: Japan takes Port Headland. BB Nagato, CA Haguro and a small carrier or two are way out here. I would consider moving my IO carriers this way to strike them if they don't first go into action against the KB.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 12:49:19 AM

paullus99

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If he keeps moving in that direction, you should try to move in behind him. You are a lot closer to friendly ports than he is - if you could trim a carrier or three off, you'd be in a great position to foil whatever follow-up plans he might have.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 1:17:05 AM

GreyJoy

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Which of the two Johnston are u talking about? I remember there were two of them...and, if i'm not mistaken, the best one was sent away from the front cause the confederate President didn't like him...is that correct?

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 7:07:04 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

4/9/42

China: Seven stout Chinese divisions converge in a wooded-rough hex NE of Sian and overwhelm two small Chinese infantry units. This will force me to contract my MLR once again and heightens the threat to Sian.
.

So who won that battle - Mao's commies or Chiang Kai Shek's Kuomintang troops?

I presume the stout divisions mentioned were actually Japanese sneaking around in Chinese unirforms.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 2:03:56 PM

Canoerebel

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Yes! That's exactly what I'd like, but I have to assume Steve is prepared for just such a move. I keep expecting him to spring a trap against my carriers, with his "original IO KB" on one side and Junyo, Kaga and Akagi on the other. That might be exactly what he's up to.

On the other hand, there's a chance he think's I won't employ my carriers and that I've withdrawn them far into the Arabian Sea. If he thinks I ran away like a scalded dog, then I would be in a great position.

But my carriers will probably stumble across an enemy sub or picket ship or the like before anything sexy happens.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 2:07:13 PM

Canoerebel

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
Which of the two Johnston are u talking about? I remember there were two of them...and, if i'm not mistaken, the best one was sent away from the front cause the confederate President didn't like him...is that correct?

GJ, I would neve have expected folks across the sea to have such detailed knowledge about rather obscure (obscure overseas, not amongst American Civil War buffs) Confederate officers. How did you come about such knowledge?

Albert Sydney Johnston was a very highly regarded Confederate general in the western theater early in the war. Before he got a chance to do very much, he was killed at the Battle of Shiloh in 1862.

Joseph E. Johnston commanded all over the place, from Bull Run in Virginia in 1862 to Mississippi in 1863 to the Atlanta Campaign in 1864. He was very highly regarded by his troops and I think by the officer corps. However, he had some real problems with Jefferson Davis, which affected his assignment to command.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/10/2012 2:12:01 PM >

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 2:54:44 PM

TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum

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Heck, Joe Johnston was the most senior US military official to side with the Confederacy at the start of the war, yet he was placed 4th in seniority. I'd feel a little snubbed myself.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 3:19:49 PM

Canoerebel

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4/12/42

Carriers: The KB pulls back and has the inside track to Sumatra. Rather than risking an encounter "on the margins," by sprinting forward to a much less advantageous position, the Allied carriers will remain near Diego Garcia. Hornet will be arriving soon (and I suspect IJ carrier reinforcements too), so we'll see what happens. To the best of my knowledge, Steve isn't aware of the location of my carriers.

India: If the KB continues to retire towards Sumatra, 18th UK Div. will resume it's journey west tomorrow. 27th/A and /B Div. are on transports nearing Diego. Japan is moving all around in NE India. The Allies have enough there to wage a campaign, but I can't take a chance on having an army isolated in Calcutta. Calcutta is good fighting ground and an important base, but not nearly as important as Bombay and Karachi. I'm pushing a bit in NE India, but I have to be very careful not to get my main troops cut off (the Burma Army is cut off, but that's more on purpose - I want a guerilla army in the mountainst that Steve has to account for).

China North: Huge decision coming for the Allies here. The Japanese probably have a route open to the plains around Sian. If that's the case, the Allies can't hold Sian. I have to pull back due south into the mountains. If I do that, however, I pretty much have to retire from the Lanchow front to consolidate my armies and not let them get divided. So suddenly my northern MLR wil collapse inside Sian, covering Kienko and Chungking (and Ankang). The Allies can probably fight effectively on the smaller front in the rough terrain for quite some time, but I'm worried about how the loss of supply will affect me. These are dark days. My highest priorities: (1) don't get cut off, (2) fight for time.

China East: The Chinese are looking for a chance to strike a blow against the Japanese. I've found one that could conceivable create a 4,000 to 1,600 AV advantage, but it will take four days to implement. There's a very good chance the Japanese won't be there by then.

China South: Distance and very rough terrain helps me here. I don't have a ton down here, but I have enough to hold things for quite some time even when Steve pushes through the first base inside China.

Luzon: Bataan finally fell yesterday. It held out against incredible odds when nothing was left, extending things for ten days or so beyond what I could have hoped for. That frees up three divisions for Steve, which would really bother me except for the next item.

Singapore: Two IJA divisions (4th and 6th Guards) crosses and gets messed up. More importantly, I know there location (not coming to Oz, at least any time soon!).

America: zzzz

Oz: Enemy invasion of Exmouth.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 3:22:37 PM

crsutton

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Ok, let's please keep this AAR on subject. Enough about these dead secesh generals.

I have located some stout Chinese-so it is possible.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 3:36:10 PM

Cap Mandrake

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What? No invasion? We was gypped, I tell ya, gypped.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 4:02:32 PM

Canoerebel

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crsutton, is that photo somehow tied to Chick-fil-A? The logo at the bottom kind o' reminds me of the restaurants and them ladies look like they been feastin' on some fried chicken.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 4:53:41 PM

Cribtop

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It would appear they ate their husbands.

CR, your games are always exciting to watch! I must say that Steve's use of maneuver in north China is impressive. He appeared to be stymied, then marching cross country, but now may achieve something after all. In my experience the capture of Sian and Lanchow is important. It denies fuel and thus HI to China, as well as costing LI generated supplies. On the other side of the ledger, the Oil can keep Manchurian industry humming along without need of imports for far longer than is normally the case.

In the meantime, fight on!

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 5:02:44 PM

Canoerebel

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4/13/42

Carriers: KB "disappears," probably towards Sumatra, but maybe into the Bay of Bengal. The Allied carriers are just south of Cocos Island. Hornet will join up with them in a few days.

India: Socatra now has 250 AV with a CD units and lots of engineers. I may well send the 45th East African Brigade here when it is available in about a week. With nearly 400 AV, I think Socatra would be about as strongly defended as I could reasonably arrange given competing needs. Karachi suppy is 600k with 1,000 AV; Bombay is 550k with 450 AV. Both ports and airfields are steadily growing; Bombay's field will reach level nine before it comes into play.

China: No question I'm going to have to pull a Joe Johnston here. I've ordered my stack north of Lanchow to retire in combat mode to that base. That's the first step towards contracting my lines. Down near Changsha, my three stacks that hope to combine and assault a smaller IJ army are moving very slow. It will take forever (maybe as much as 8 days) for the move to be completed. Circumstances will probably change first.

North America: The Allies are studying the practicality of a big amphibious invasion in the Aleutians in about a month. This is predicated on Akagi and Kaga showing up somewhere far away. If so, Sara and York would provide air cover while the Allies targeted three or four bases in, hopes that at least two of the targets would be lightly held. Steve's best airfields are kind of scattered about at the moment. He'll have a reactionary force available, but it might work. (I have already decided such an undertaking would be a worthwile use of my carriers. NoPac is actually a strategic target now, because establishing a stronghold behind Steve's position on the Canadian Coast would threaten the latter, facilitate interdiction of supplies to the latter, help with reducing the latter, and thus eventually free up units I have to keep in place in the Pacific NW right now to counter the threat of air strikes. The Allies have plenty of good amphibious ships available and should be able to cobble together a decent group of ground units.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/10/2012 5:03:29 PM

Q-Ball

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Johnston is widely admired in the South. He is viewed as an able tactician that had an impossible task. I think most people are aware that his troops thought very highly of him also.

That brings up an interesting point. What is the general perception of Confederate generals in the south today:

Elite: Lee, Jackson, Forrest. Stuart, Longstreet
Very Good: Johnston, Johnson, Early, Gordon, A.P. Hill, Hood (at least as a divisional commander),
Good: Wheeler (probably inflated), Cleburne, Hardee, Polk, Pickett
Mediocre: Buckner, Beuregard, D.H. Hill, McLaws
Below Average: Cheatham, Breckenridge, Pemberton
Poor: Ewell
Terrible: Bragg

Those are just some off-the-cuff estimates.

Alot of lost-cause types blamed Longstreet for Gettysburg for awhile, even though it was Lee's fault by his own admission.

Stuart, IMO, is the most overrated Confederate general. He was decent, but was helped immensely by the very poor state of Union Cavalry out east. He made a very serious blunder in the Gettysburg campaign. The tide turned once the Union got some real cavalry leaders out there.

The most underrated Confederate General, IMO, was Richard Taylor.

I also don't think Bragg was that bad. He somewhat unimaginative and needed to go, but he wasn't Fremont or Ben Butler bad.

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