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First Impressions (after playing enough to get the basics)

 
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First Impressions (after playing enough to get the basics) - 8/16/2012 6:10:16 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
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I guess I've pretty much figured out the basics for playing this game, which as usual I've accomplished by starting and restarting new games and experimenting to see how things work and what settings I like. I think I've finally got a match that I'll enjoy.

Back when this game first came out it was really quite amazing how much activity there was on this forum. Unfortunately for me, I just didn't get into at the time. There were a couple key features of the game when it first came out that sort of turned me off. If I recall, the Economy was broken in that it was basically impossible to not be filthy rich; also the inability to adjust things like Pirate intensity and not being able to turn off the space monsters . . .

no, no I don't believe that 'creatures' will ever be found to 'live' in outerspace and eat rocks and gas clouds and space ships . . . Are furry cat people who are good with technology possible? Sure. But flying space octupii? No, I draw the line just this side of flying space Krakens . . . )

. . . but I digress . . .

Well as with many of these great games in the making, if you just wait for a few patches (I'm playing patched up Stock DW without any expansions and it is a great game, i.e., you do not HAVE to have the expansions to 'get your money's worth!), because this is now a really great game. The real beauty of games like these is of course the ability to create your own game of sorts. Want a cake walk where you evolve to a beyond a consciousness singularity in mere months? You can probably adjust the settings to make it so. Prefer to have a fairly peaceful mercantile competitive Empire: also no problem, you just got to set up your starting game approprately. Want a white-knuckle 'underdog' expeirence where the survival of your very species is at question? Also probably doable as long as you are not too expert at the game.

So I like to set up these types of games so that they will play on and on interminably, sort of like real life. However, WITH victory conditions that are fairly attainable, just so the AI keeps on its toes and strives to beat ya. Generally I rarely finish such thing; I'll just play them for many hours till it gets to a point where the outcome is a foregone conclusion and lose interest. But it is lots of fun in the process!

In my current game it is 7 Jan 2764. My Home planet is Calaan 1. My intent with this post, is to explain what has happened in the few in-game years so far, the settings that I used to set the game in motion, reflect on what I've learned and maybe provoke some old players who have got inactive to come back to play the game some more. I'm still learning a lot about the game so I'd benefit if I manage to get some of you guys playing it again

Galaxy Settings
Huge Spiral Galaxy
Planet Quality Very High
Aliens: Normal
Expansion: Start
Aggressiion: Restless
Research Speed: Normal
Space Creatures: NONE
Pirates: Normal

My Empire
"Terran Federation" (Humans obviously). Outer Core starting location with EXCELLENT Home world (four continentals all >95% quality in my home system ). Size at Starting level; Tech at Basic Level; Corruption at Low. Government Republic

Other Empires
Eight Empires selected by name, all with Starting/Basic size/Tech and Normal home systems
1 Mortalen, Military Dictatorship, Avg distance from me
2 Sluken Hive Mind, Random dist
3 Boskara Hive , Nearby (has proven to be a good/interest producing choice so far!)
4 Dhayut, Feudal, Avg dist
5 Ketarov, Monarchy, Rand dist
6 Haakonish, Mercantile Guild, Distant
7 Ikkuro, Republic, Distant
8 Securan, Utopian, Random

Plus one "mystery Empire"
9 Random, Despotism, Random Size and Tech level, Excellent Home System, and Random Distance

So basically I can be confident of a few things:
A. I'm not hopelessly outmatched by a bunch of Empires that have way more tech or size than me
B. I have good starting location to build from, but will probably face some serious challenges that get more intense as time goes on and I keep encountering those various 'bady guy' bug people who are at Avg or Random distance from me
C. There are a few potential ally 'good guy' aliens tossed in, but two of them (Ketarov and Securan) I have on idea where they are, and one is Distant. So I'm not sure if I'm gonna have many friends for the earlyor mid-phase of the game.
D. By putting the Boskara _Nearby_ I've more or else insured that, as soon as I get a reasonable young Empire set up, I'm going to be having to deal with aggressive neighbors.

So far I'd say it has worked out perfectly. Like I said, nine in-game years have passed. So far the only Alien Empire with which I've made contact is the Boskara and I have not actually managed to find their homeworld yet. Here is what has happened so far

First I got a handful of scouts out, and a few fleets of three Destroyers going so I could respond to pirates. The first pirate base was pretty close and I managed to find it and destroy it quickly and then my economy boomed for a good long while. I filled in four of the continentals in my home system and started setting up some peripheral Caslon fueling points as my scouts kept the map info coming in. I've settled four additional systems with high quality planets all of which are about 1 sector away from the home system. Just as I was getting ready to colonize my fourth system is when I met the Boskara, and then I started having some serious pirate troubles. They kept ambushing my gas mining outposts and it took me quite a while to spot their base hidden in a gas cloud.

Just as I was assembling a couple fleets of three to take out the pirate base, here come the Boskara!

Not sure what the AI was doing, maybe trying to provoke aggression I guess. But basically just as I had my fleets redeployed to deal with the pirates, I discovered second pirate base that must be down toward the Boskara sovereign area (still haven't found them yet), and then here comes a fleet of 10 Boskara mostly destroyers but a few transports and frigs! Along with a train of passenger ships, freighters, etc. I was rather surprised to see this, so I postponed my attack on the second pirate base and redeployed all of my military ships outside my home system and ready to counterattack.

The Boskara fleet flies to my home planet and then just sits there, surrounding it but never firing a shot!

Once I had my forces assembled and felt ready to respond to aggression, I imposed sanctions, but a few weeks passed and now they seem to be just withdrawing. Weird.

It would certainly seem that the AI was following some sort of 'provocation' algorithm and I can't say I've ever seen anything quite like that in a game like this. Will be interesting to see how things turn out.

I'm not sure why, probably the pirates I guess?, but my economy has gone from going gangbusters to being in the total tank. At peak I had about 100K in my treasury and avg of +11K (whatever that means, montly, weekly or whatever). But now I'm at 4k in treasury and -53k in the red. This is one thing about the game I still don't get: what does that +/- number unde the treasury actually mean and how does it relate to the balance sheet in the Empire screen? Also, I have no idea what caused my economy to tank, nothing really changed except that the pirates blew up a couple mines and then got blown up themselves.

Does the mere threat of pirates cause economic turn down until such time as you destroy their base?


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3
Post #: 1
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/16/2012 7:25:45 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
Update: 2769 Treasury at -97K and -9k per period (month or whatever). Economy has been in the red for like 5 years in-game, though it has gradually got a bit better.

I think maybe I expanded a bit too fast, though tbh I don't get it.

All of my planets are top notch (none below ~95%).

Game is feeling a bit like interstellar pirate-whacka-mole at the moment! The mystery I have yet to unravel is how to defend the private mining sprawl from pirates: what do you send one or two Frigates to constantly patrol each solar system where you have any mining or freight originating?

The randomness of the tech progress is a bit annoying too.

About how many colonies/warships/explorers/constructors/bases should I realistically have after 10 in-game years?

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 2
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/16/2012 7:44:51 PM   
joeyeti


Posts: 329
Joined: 2/28/2012
Status: offline
I am slowly raising my hand and saying:
"Please post your economy results table (or whasaname)..."
You know, I have seen it requested elsewhere for economy analytics

As per the defense - I think someone mentioned modifying the mine design, adding some torpedoes and shields... I think!

(Being the total noob I am)

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 3
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/16/2012 8:39:45 PM   
Pipewrench


Posts: 453
Joined: 1/5/2010
Status: offline
Anthropoid

don't get discouraged, I posted something to help another player. have a look as it applies to your game as well. Some features you might not have but the economy is sort of the same.

look down for my rant

regards,


(in reply to joeyeti)
Post #: 4
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/16/2012 9:11:01 PM   
Arcatus


Posts: 197
Joined: 1/2/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: joeyeti

I am slowly raising my hand and saying:
"Please post your economy results table (or whasaname)..."
You know, I have seen it requested elsewhere for economy analytics

As per the defense - I think someone mentioned modifying the mine design, adding some torpedoes and shields... I think!

(Being the total noob I am)


Yea, a few weapons on mining stations can keep pirate escorts and lone frigates away. But (obviously) the station cost and upkeep increases...

(in reply to joeyeti)
Post #: 5
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/16/2012 10:03:42 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
Well back to the drawing board! erm, I mean ship designer . . .

Thanks for the link pipewrench! Good stuff in that 'rant.'

Thanks for the feedback guys.

< Message edited by Anthropoid -- 8/16/2012 10:04:56 PM >


_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Arcatus)
Post #: 6
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/16/2012 11:31:37 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
Oh yeah Pirate SCUM!

Just designed me some gas mining and solid mining bases that have about ~950 shield hp and do about 75 damage!

Come at me bro!

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 7
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/19/2012 12:29:05 AM   
DracoRedux


Posts: 13
Joined: 11/17/2010
Status: offline
Yo Anthropoid! Open up your empire summary screen and press print screen on your keyboard. Now, open paint and ctrl + v. Save file. Upload the file to the forums or give us a link to a host site. Note: you could also just take an in-game screenshot and do the same.

I don't know the exact problem from your description. Taxing too much can cripple your economy. The requested info above will give further insight.

-Draco

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 8
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/19/2012 3:59:02 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
Thanks Draco!

However, I'm long past that game. Restarted at least once or twice since then.

Using pipewrenches suggestions I've managed to create a pretty strong initial economy, though I'm now a bit tenuous on where to go from there.

I guess it is about 10 years in, I've got about 3 colonies, one of which is right in my home system, one of which is quite far south, almost a whole sector south. In addition to that I have about 10 mining bases in various systems in my area. The focus being on getting at least 10 luxuries hooked up. This has proven to be quite lucrative as I've got my taxes on home planet up to about 25% or more.

The steps I followed immediately after game start (same galaxy / game settings as above):
1. create a few new ship designs (e.g., DD without the troop thing; mining and gas bases with much more shields and some firepower = they can survive and deal with most pirates on their own; troop transport with more hauling capacity, and more shields but no guns, etc.)
2. delete all pre-placed mining bases
3. build ONLY those bases that I need = 1 for caslon, then focus on luxuries from there
4. After I had plenty of luxuries I indulged in a 2nd colony
5. Once I had a decent cash flow and treasury I splurged for a few more ships, building in sets of two DDs and keeping them as fleets, with one fleet always escourting each construction or colony ship.
6. After I had about ~400k treasury and +125k per period I indulged in third construction ship and one or two more explorers

So at this point, I've got a solid starting Empire. Five fleets with Two "Delta" destroyers (56 firepower and about 560 shields if memory serves). Three constructors, 4 to 6 explorers, two colonies, and multiple mining bases. Have teched up to 1st tier torpedoes.

The thing I really do not get is: how are you supposed to defend all of those outlying resource extraction points? The obvious answers would be:
A. build small 'patrol' fleets to loiter in each system where you have resource extraction -> seems very expensive though

B. focus on fast warp high speed, high power DDs to respond whenever a base is attacked? With the bases improved with some survivability this seems reasonably viable, but not until you tech up a bit

Hmm, beyond that, staying out of wars would seem to be just about the only option?

This game really seems to 'privilege' geurilla style hit and run tactics

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to DracoRedux)
Post #: 9
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/19/2012 8:08:56 PM   
Pipewrench


Posts: 453
Joined: 1/5/2010
Status: offline
You have just pealed back a layer of the onion.

There are many ways to cover expansion and protect your private sector

Two examples,

The first one is :

create a new design for the mining bases / gas mining bases by adding just enough weaponry and shields/armor to withstand a moderate pirate attack. Remember to make the old design obsolete or the private sector will probably build that old design. Everything you add will cost you in maintenance and depending on the difficulty could hurt you in the end. Watch the building and maintenance cost(s) as you add or subtract components.

The second one is:

Become a micro-manager.

Think of your expansion like 2 rings. the inner sectors have been cleared and explored. This just really needs monitoring while the outer sector needs heavy firepower and fuel.

As you expand, build 1 gas mine that extracts the fuel you use in every sector. If that sector has a habitual planet try and build the gas mine as close as you can to the planet.

Now retrofit and build a frigate class so that it has about a 2 sector fuel reach and a energy collector to prevent it from using fuel when parked. Move it out to the the new gas mine that is being built, stopping if necessary to refuel. Put 1 frigate on each fuel source. These become your first responders in a developed area and can back up a fleet in the next sector. If the threat is too large for the frigate to handle, bring a fleet in to help out while the frigate stalls for time.

As for research :

At the start research what helps the military and civilian ships at the same time without retrofitting. This saves money and brings an instant benefit to bases and ships already in service.

Remember distances are very important in your expansion. Click on a freighter that is sitting on your home system and zoom out. Notice its range for fuel. Remember, if you build a mine that exceeds 1/2 a freighters range it will run out of fuel on the way back and slow down. Freighters just want to haul product, its up to you to keep them fueled and safe.

A hint,

The fourth constructor should be left on automatic. This will build up strategic resources and keep costs down. When you start serious ship building you will need strategic materials faster than mining ships can provide. Watch your inventory.

The fourth explorer when built should be set to explore all the sectors you originally went thru. You rushed to find things and now bring a explorer in to look thru and find things you might of missed. Right click on any planet in a sector and select explore sector. Make sure you update and add newly researched sensors to take advantage of new ranges and features. This will help you find and unlock secrets faster. You cannot find what you cannot see.

Wait until you have to assemble fleets and attack with resupply ships to feed an advance.

have fun.


< Message edited by pipewrench -- 8/19/2012 9:29:53 PM >

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 10
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/19/2012 10:15:16 PM   
Arcatus


Posts: 197
Joined: 1/2/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Anthropoid

This game really seems to 'privilege' geurilla style hit and run tactics


Yes, until you get the Long range scanner. It's the first thing I always research, and it dramatically changes how you defend your borders.

Put them on a ship (I use the explorer class) and strategically position them around. Then you can see fleets and ships as they approach.

(some use scanner bases, but borders and hot-spots constantly change, so with the scanners on a ship you can adapt quickly)

That way you only need a handfull of small fleets, and you meet the ships or fleet head on when they exit warp. (if you get there in time )

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 11
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/19/2012 11:16:00 PM   
Anthropoid


Posts: 3107
Joined: 2/22/2005
From: Secret Underground Lair
Status: offline
Ah good advice guys!

I was wondering, on the SEN components, specifically the two that you start out with at game start: proximity array and resource analyzer or some such.

Is two of those on one ship in any way better than one?

_____________________________

The x-ray is her siren song. My ship cannot resist her long. Nearer to my deadly goal. Until the black hole. Gains control...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IkIIlkyZ328&feature=autoplay&list=AL94UKMTqg-9CocLGbd6tpbuQRxyF4FGNr&playnext=3

(in reply to Arcatus)
Post #: 12
RE: First Impressions (after playing enough to get the ... - 8/20/2012 9:37:03 AM   
Arcatus


Posts: 197
Joined: 1/2/2012
Status: offline
No, additional sensors does not increase range (or do anything else useful).

(in reply to Anthropoid)
Post #: 13
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