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Need some suggestions - 8/20/2012 9:09:22 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		In my new playing around mod, I was inspired by all the talk of the WNT not happening. Then I was thinking what happens to the US battleships that were built in 19xx that had the 12" guns. So a thought came to me what if they were turned into floating batteries at key out posts?

My questions to the community;

Lets assume the US decided to do it, how would it look in the editor if the ships were beached and a cofferdam built around the hull for torpedo protection?

I envision the boilers are removed and several diesel engines are installed to provide power. A pony boiler or two are used for fresh water.

The other question is the most obvious one would it be cheaper to do this or build forts?

Let me know what ya think.

< Message edited by oldman45 -- 8/20/2012 9:10:53 PM >

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/20/2012 9:17:58 PM   
wdolson

 

Posts: 10398
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Status: offline 		It would have been an interesting use for them. It could also be an alternate solution to the need to scrap BBs as part of the treaty restrictions. Though ships beached in the 1920s would probably be in poor shape by 1941.

Bill

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/20/2012 11:47:06 PM   
Gridley380


Posts: 464
Joined: 12/20/2011
Status: offline 		I would expect that batteries would be built around the turrets after the turrets were pulled from the hulls instead.

The US and many other navies retained the belief that "a ship's a fool to fight a fort" for so long partly because a CD battery could have MUCH better protection than a ship feasibly could... so why short-change your shore battery's protection by limiting it to the ship's armor? Why not a few dozen feet of earth and concrete?

BTW, take a look Osprey's Fortress Book 8 (Defenses of Pearl Harbor & Oahu) for an example, or look up the 'concrete battleship' in the PI.

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 3:23:08 AM   
MateDow


Posts: 218
Joined: 8/6/2002
Status: offline 		Instead of fixed fortifications, how about monitor style warships built with the 12"/45 turrets from the Connecticut-class? There would be twelve turrets from the six ships. That wouldn't even consider the 8"/50 turrets (24 of them) that would be available.

Those ships would fit into the USMC concept of working their way through the Pacific.

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 3:40:56 AM   
GaryChildress

 

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From: The Divided Nations of Earth
Status: offline 		Not sure about this but weren't some of the fixed coastal batteries at PH from decommissioned ships? I thought I read it somewhere. I could be wrong.

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 3:48:03 AM   
wsoxfan

 

Posts: 14
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Status: offline 		have a battery of 12x12 guns from the Arkansas, and have the United States gift them to the Dutch, who then place them in Palembang. It would be a JFB's nightmare

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 4:08:42 AM   
MateDow


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Not sure about this but weren't some of the fixed coastal batteries at PH from decommissioned ships? I thought I read it somewhere. I could be wrong.


The 7" batteries at PH were from the Connecticut-class. I haven't heard of any of the other batteries coming from decommissioned ships. Some of the 16"/50 guns from cancelled ships were allocated to the Army for use as CD batteries, but I don't know where they were placed, or even if they were used. The Army had it's own 16" gun design that they were using for CD.

They did use 14"/45 turrets from Arizona but that was during the war.

< Message edited by MateDow -- 8/21/2012 4:10:19 AM >

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 4:51:57 AM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		I think it would be better use of them to make a couple of forts. Thanks guys.

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 2:59:27 PM   
el cid again

 

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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

In my new playing around mod, I was inspired by all the talk of the WNT not happening. Then I was thinking what happens to the US battleships that were built in 19xx that had the 12" guns. So a thought came to me what if they were turned into floating batteries at key out posts?

A couple of these ships were considered for use as bombardment support vessels. It is a good idea to just restore them as mobile heavy artillery.

But they could be beached. At Subic Bay, an old cruiser was used as a power plant for the base - and so beaching a ship is possible. At Yokosuka, Mikasa is entirely encased in concrete! But she still has her guns! [And is still in comission too] You could do it.

< Message edited by el cid again -- 8/21/2012 3:02:37 PM >

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 3:04:48 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Perhaps covert them amphibious command control ships?

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 3:07:02 PM   
castor troy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: wsoxfan

have a battery of 12x12 guns from the Arkansas, and have the United States gift them to the Dutch, who then place them in Palembang. It would be a JFB's nightmare


nah, just land at Oosthaven and march on the road North

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/21/2012 7:35:09 PM   
MateDow


Posts: 218
Joined: 8/6/2002
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quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Perhaps covert them amphibious command control ships?


I think that there were discussions about converting some of the pre-dreadnought battleships to troop ships during WW1, or shortly thereafter. I'm not in a place with my reference books, so I can't say for sure. If someone has a copy of Friedman, it might be in there.

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/22/2012 4:55:23 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
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From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		I don't have Friedmans, but I have a couple of others, they might talk about. I will read up tonight.

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/22/2012 9:25:54 PM   
MateDow


Posts: 218
Joined: 8/6/2002
Status: offline 		I have a conversion for pre-dreadnoughts to an APA in my personal mod and it had these changes...

Removal of aft 12"/45 turret
Removal of aft 8"/45 turrets
Removal of 7"/45 battery
Removal of conning tower armor

Add 900 troops and 300 cargo
Add 6 5"/38 OBR DP mounts (2 aft, 2 port, 2 stbd)
Add 6 quad 40mm mounts (3 port, 3 stbd)

My theory was that you remove the aft turrets and expand the house aft with davits. Troop accommodation on the former 7" battery deck.

Not necessarily a command ship (AGC) but would still be a useful ship with wartime experience.

Maybe have them in reserve and show up at Mare Island with 95% machinery damage to represent reactivation and the player would have the option of a warship or auxiliary of some sort (APA, AGC, etc).

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RE: Need some suggestions - 8/23/2012 4:10:27 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		I like that, I think I will fiddle around with it and see how it looks.

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