RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A)

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 1:06:19 AM

AcePylut

Posts: 1494
Joined: 3/19/2004
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Having played PH in a PBEM into '43... I'd like to add a couple comments..

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
Over the past few months I�ve implemented a two-part test to determine whether a particular practice is unfair (according to my own lights): (1) was it reasonably possible in the real war, or a reasonable extension of what might have been possible? (2) if not, is there a reasonable way for my opponent to counter it?

If they answer to both is in the negative, then I won�t do it.

This seems to be a pretty decent way to approach "is what I'm about to do, gamey?".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
1) Use of Picket Ships: While I am shifting to using combat ships more and more for picket duty, I still use merchant vessels.

I did the same thing. He asked me not to do it, and I thought about it, and agreed that only 'combat' ships should be pickets - and I defined combat ships as anything "not" a transport. I controlled the Aleuts throughout the game (I had the Ent and Lex in Nome when he went for Attu with a pair of light CV's. I sank two carriers and beat back the invasion) and found that those 3500-4000 endurance ships (YMS and the like) could easily cover the Adak-Midway and Dutch Harbor-PH lanes quite easily. I used a large number of those small boats around the map, and felt that between my patrol bases and pickets I was covered pretty well.

I would have preferred to use transports for one reason only - and that's to reduce the number of mouseclicks having to give orders to 3400 endurance boats instead of 10k endurance boats.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
2) Using Carrier Planes from Airfields:

I find no reason this is even in question. I'm thinking off the top of my head, of those TBF's at Midway from VT8, and the Cactus AF.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
1) Use of para fragments to gain omniscient information about my garrison, strength and fort levels at Port Blair. This was not possible in the real war and there is no way that I can prevent a para-assault from accomplishing this task.

If he's going to do this, then it's time to bring the Nautilus back to the Marine Raider location and start doing 20man sub invasions of dot hexes.

He and I had an HR that any sub or para assault must be "in force". I.e. the tactic is ok to do, as long as you're going full in and not using frags.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
3) Using small units to gain omniscient information about an enemy stack. Steve just used an artillery unit to cross a river and gain complete information about my stack on the far side. There is no way to stop this and it�s totally unrealistic.

My first thought was - maybe he had a stack of units going to that hex, then changed his mind in mid-move, turned some troops around, sent some troops elsewhere, and forgot about the arty unit.

If this tactic was done willingly, then it's kinda cheesy.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
1) Parking his carriers off California and striking my industrial targets, knowing that doing so doesn�t invoke Allied reinforcements, as would obviously occur in the real war. While this isn�t reasonable, I do have the means of countering the strategy by using picket ships and effectively employing my airforce.

PH raided Seattle in '42 with the Soryu and Hiryu, and sunk 2 CVE's sitting in port. I mentioned in passing that such an act would most definitely turn US into a "Japan First" war setting. He replied that he will do a sub-invasion of a hex that would trigger reinforcements if I wanted such. I declined as my initial comment was just more of an off the cuff statement.

Needless to say, a month or so later, he tried raiding again. My 4 CV's were in Nomuea late '42, began heading back to Pearl (for upgrades and to maybe get lucky). Just when he departed from the west coast raid, I got a magical "radio report" from a hex where i had nothing. Just so happens that he was going to make the run between Pearl Harbor and Christmas isle to Truk. I parked my 4 CV's right in the middle, caught him, and sank his entire tf. 2 KB CV's baby :) The Hornet took 2 torps and was at like 50 float damage.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel
2) Capturing rail stations and then transporting whole divisions long distances a day or two after an invasion. In reality, of course, it would take Japan forever to organize rail transportation, if ever. On the other hand, I have the ability to counter this tactic by defending my bases.

I proposed, on the main forum, an HR that an engineer unit has to traverse any hex captured from the enemy, and build level 1 forts if possible, or if in a non-base hex, at least wait a couple-three days before moving on. Building the forts simulates any necessary time spent repairing and securing the railroad before that hex could be used for rail - because paratrooping units 500 miles into Injun territory and magically opening up a fully functioning rail the next day to said hex - is unrealistic.

But I got laughed at by the forum - so oh well.

< Message edited by AcePylut -- 8/15/2012 1:10:28 AM >

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 2:08:45 AM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
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Dan,

I can say with good authority that you need not fear for your reputation as an honest and honorable gamer.

Many of the implications of Fortress Palembang weren't fully explored (outside the fertile minds of Nemo and Alfred) until Nemo's game and yours showed the strategy in action. Plus Chez was an ultra-historical player who expected a certain kind of game, which, combined with PDU Off worked together to prevent an effective counter.

The point is, the fact you worry about it means you are not what you worry about.

< Message edited by Cribtop -- 8/15/2012 3:07:23 AM >

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 2:43:38 AM

Saros

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Para assault doesn't halve AV of the defenders and hasn't for a long time. I dunno why people still think this is a thing. All it really does is force the attacker to make a shock attack and cost him a lot more casualties.

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Post #: 1023

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 2:08:08 PM

princep01

Posts: 943
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From: Texas
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I'm not as sure as Saros regarding the effect of para drops, but I think he is correct regarding the "halving effect" claim. It does create a shock attack as he notes, but, while that can increase casulties, it also adds a +1 modifier to the attack.

I do wish there was a definitve answer to this issue of "halving" the defense, and I am sure it is well known to others, but I confess to some confusion on this point.

(in reply to Saros)

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 2:30:07 PM

Canoerebel

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I've heard it both ways, but I haven't seen anything I consider definitive on the matter. As far as I know, it halfs the defensive AV. I know PzH thinks so too, and he's a pretty knowledgeable player.

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Post #: 1025

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 3:04:40 PM

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quote:

About a week ago, a kind reader posted a helpful pointer about ship movement between Balboa and Capetown. He noted that a TF can be set to maximum speed, that doing so will reduce the time of transit from 21 days to 10 days (at least for TFs that travel the speed of CV Hornet and her escorts), and that doing so does not incur any damage or fuel consumption.

Presto, I gleefully mulled over the possibilities of expediting travel for my combat and carrier TFs from Pacific to Indian Ocean and back. Imagine how useful it might be when it comes time to use my carriers to cover an invasion in NoPac and then get them back to India to cover things there. Imagine the possibilities if Steve wasn�t aware of this shortcut, made a calculation based on the "normal" transit time of 21 days, and then stumbled into a carrier force he "knew" couldn't be present for another couple of weeks.

I mulled this over for a week. On the one hand, it seems a reasonable thing to take advantage of this because it �dampens� the effect of the design flaw that prevents a player from recalling TFs in transit between, say, Balboa and Capetown. You send Hornet on her way to African, need to recall her one day later, but can�t. She�s committed to the three-week journey there�and then three weeks back. Use the new shortcut and you cut the total time away to about 20 days.

Nevertheless, I don�t think the designers meant for off-map transit to work this way. I decided today that I will forego this. I notified Steve, who told me he wasn�t even aware this is possible.

A suggestion...

You could still use the full speed transit option for your ships if you held them in the destination hex until the time for a transit at normal speed had elapsed before actually employing them in the new theater.

If you, for some reason, decided that you wanted to recall the task force, you could issue the recall order as soon as they arrive at the destination hex without waiting for the transit time at normal speed to elapse.

This would eliminate the reduced transit time factor that you feel is unfair to your opponent and would also partially mitigate your inability to recall a task force once it's committed to the transit.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 3:16:51 PM

witpqs

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From: Argleton
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IMO, just don't use the faster transit.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 3:41:29 PM

Miller

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Using only Art units to shock attack across a river to gain intel on the defenders AV/Forts is cheesy as hell.

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Post #: 1028

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 8:30:36 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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4/22/42

Carriers: Indomitable is off the map and looks good. She's due for withdrawl in 90 days, so I'll probably do that as soon as she arrives at Capetown (she has 30 SYS and 15 FLT damage; is there any reason to repair damage before withdrawing?). Dutch sub KXVI puts a torp into BB Hiei at the Sunda Straits and later reports a Kate passing by overhead. The KB may be here.

Subs: Allied subs have put single fish in Haruna and Hiei over the past few weeks, while the enemy scored that hit against Indomitable. Other than that strike, IJ subs have been remarkably quiet in the game. This is becasue Steve uses them as tripwires rather than to patrol ports. Allied subs, on the other hand, have been remarkably effective of late, scoring many a long string of attacks, mainly around Anchorage, Sikhalin Island and in the Andaman Sea. On the other hand, my subs around Korea, Japan and the Philippines haven't done a thing (well, they did claim one tanker a week ago).

India: 95th East African Bde. arrives at Socatra, which now has 400 AV. The Japanese should take Calcutta soon, though that usually is a bit tougher than anticipated due to the 4x multiplier. The Allies will be looking for a chance to gang up on a Japanese unit or two, but I have to be careful not to get my guys hung out too far.

China: Still trying to get my guys back into the Changsha/Siangant/Hengyang MLR. Steve is regularly employing 400 bombers against this stack, doing a heckuva lot of damage (that's another neat trick - use 400 bombers in China today, then use them in India tomorrow). I will slowly contract the Lanchow sector to make sure it doesn't get isolated when the time comes to retire from Sian. The new MLR will stretch from the rough-woods hexes north (true) of Chungking through Ankang, Chengte, Changsha, Kweilin, Kunming, and into the mountains close to the Burma border. I could fight effectively if supply wasn't going to be an issue.

North America/Oz: For important reasons that I won't delve into in great detail, I've come up with a plan of action that I'm happy with. Oz needs reinforcement, and I don't want to move into NoPac until my covering bases are large (because, in part, I think Steve will look for this move). So, I'm going to send 32nd Division and a few other units to Oz...but first they are going to help with an invasion of Tarawa and vicinity. A few of the units earmarked for this operation will remain as garrison units while 32nd Div. will eventually move to Oz. Sara and York will provide cover. A couple of slow BBs, two good CAs, and BB Warspite will come along for the ride. The intent is to overwhelm Tarawa and two nearby islands and then move on to Oz as quickly as possible. I will have nearly all my AP available.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/15/2012 8:32:17 PM >

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Post #: 1029

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/15/2012 10:06:09 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
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quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

4/22/42

Carriers: Indomitable is off the map and looks good. She's due for withdrawl in 90 days, so I'll probably do that as soon as she arrives at Capetown (she has 30 SYS and 15 FLT damage; is there any reason to repair damage before withdrawing?).

Yes, perhaps a couple.

1) There is a max damage above which a ship may not withdraw. I don't recall those numbers but her damage sounds high. Start repairs as soon as she hits Cape town.

2) For ships that come back, AFAIK they come back in the same shape they left in. Skip an upgrade, it's still pending when the ship returns. Send it back with damage, the same damage is there when it returns.

BTW, remind me never to rent you a car!

(in reply to Canoerebel)

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 3:14:23 AM

princep01

Posts: 943
Joined: 8/7/2006
From: Texas
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witpqs is correct that there are limits on the damage a ship may have and still be withdrawn. I tried to look it up in the manual, but could not locate it. My recollection is that it must be below 50% system damage and there is some limit on floation (maybe 0), but I don't recall.

However, witpqs is incorrect re the upgrade status of returning ships. Manual6.9.1 p 139 says they return in th elatest upgrade for their class. So, if the class of ships upgrades in the period of absence, they come back with the latest upgrade.

If you get political points for early withdrawal (and I don't remember) and do not plan to us Indomitable again before mandated withdrawal, that would be a quick way to add to your political point pool.

Finally, you know it has to be in a 9 port, home country port or off map port to w/d.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 3:33:39 AM

witpqs

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I sure hope you're right about those upgrades (for my PBMs!). Thanks.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 4:36:31 AM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
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Dan, PzH plays right to the edge on any rules; trust me. Don't feel bad about going right up to the line, because he will. He's a very good opponent and never broke a HR, but single ship TFs, creative settings for airplanes, etc.....I saw it in just a couple months. Don't feel bad.

That dropping para fragment thing to reduce odds....that alone invites gamey cheats, because that is uber-gamey. Gloves off at that point.

I'm not dissing PzH because he is a gentleman...but will go right up to the HR, right or wrong

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 4:38:18 AM

Alfred

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OK, time for a mini ship withdrawal 101 post. The conditions for withdrawal have been relaxed from those applicable to when AE first shipped out.

A. Withdrawal Conditions

1. A ship can be withdrawn once off map irrespective of the condition it is in.

2. On map a ship can only be withdrawn if:

(a) Aggregated damage does not exceed 100
(b) Damage to any single component is less than 50
(c) It is in a port
(c) It is not in one of the offline ship repair modes nor whilst still returning to online from offline repair mode

3. On map locations for ship withdrawal are:

(a) Any level 9 port.

(b) The national home ports of

United States - San Francisco
Canada - Vancouver
India - Karachi
Australia - Sydney
New Zealand - Wellington

on the US or Canadian West Coast
in SE Australia (should be same area which triggers Australian Emergency Reinforcements if enemy LCU enters) plus Perth (which is not in trigger area for Emergency Reinforcements)
in New Zealand
on Ceylon
on Indian west coast (now includes Bombay)

(d) The above on map locations will not allow for withdrawal if the enemy has local air superiority over the port or enemy troops are present.

B. Withdrawal Ramifications

1. Unlike air unit withdrawals, no PPs can be earned by an early withdrawal.

2. Non withdrawal by the due date will incurr a daily PP loss until withdrawal is effected.

3. Ships withdrawn with either unfixed damage or delayed upgrade, have their return date pushed back to effect the required repairs and upgrade. For example if a ship is withdrawn with an estimated period of 18 days to complete existing repairs plus a delayed upgrade period of 15 days, the ship will return 33 days later than it would have if it had been withdrawn in perfect condition.

Alfred

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 2:58:09 PM

Canoerebel

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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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4/23/42 to 4/25/42

Carriers: Japanese position unknown. Allied carriers between Trivandrum and Socatra, close enough to send air squadrons to Ceylon if needed. Thanks for the info on withdrawal, Alfred. Indomitable is eligible to withdraw, but I'll send her to the Capetown yards until it's time for withdrawal. In the Pacific, Sara and York have moved south a bit in preparation for the pending moves on Tarawa and vicinity.

India: Four good American fighter squadrons arrived. A/ and B/ sections of 27th Division will reach Bombay in a couple of days. More is in the pipeline. India is in pretty good shape. It's Oz I'm worried about. :)

Ceylon: I bought the last garrison unit, a restricted Indian brigade, with plans to send her to Diego Garcia. Enemy shipping is moving out of the Andaman Sea. Likely targets are Diego, Ceylon or somewhere around Viz.

China: The beleaugered Chinese army finally pulled back into the MLR from Changsha to Hengyang. It took a drubbing from massed Japanese air for an extended period. The Chinese still hold Sian and Lanchow, but it won't be too much longer before it's time to pull out to consoidate the MLR.

North America: Base building continues apace at Prince Rupert. The Allies are actively reconning all the enemy bases to the northwest. The Tarawa Expeditionary Army should reach Los Angeles over the next few days. The date of embarkation cuold be as soon as four days.

Oz: Quiet and pretty wide open.

(in reply to Alfred)

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 4:03:51 PM

Canoerebel

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Here's a comparison of points for three dates: 3/1/42; 4/12/42; and 4/25/42 (except for aircraft losses, which are given only for 4/25):

Japanese Points: 12,913 to 18,959 to 19,334
Allied Points: 8,397 to 7,910 to 8,113

Japanese Men Lost: 453 to 634 to 667
Allied Men Lost: 3,354 to 6,704 to 7,022

Japanese Ships Lost: 55 for 528 points to 97 for 953 points to 112 for 1,082
Allied Ships Lost: 216 for 1734 points to 239 for 1,841 points to 247 for 1,875

Japanese Aircraft Lost: 1,302
Allied Aircraft Lost: 1,875

Japan will pick up alot more "men lost" points when Singapore falls and can score more for takign important bases, especially in India but possibly in Oz also.

Ships is the one area where the Allies are doing well at the moment. In the past two weeks, for instance, the Allies have netted a +100 in points for ships sunk. On an Auto Victory Scale, in which 4x is needed in 1943, that means the Allies have a +400 in ships, which was sufficient to offset the men lost, which included the big stack at Bataan plus quite a few in China. Allied subs are are responsible for all the ship points over this two-week period.

< Message edited by Canoerebel -- 8/16/2012 4:04:41 PM >

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 6:23:00 PM

vettim89

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<exit lurk mode>

Dan, I know you are an offensive minded player; ergo, planned invasion of Tarawa. I was wondering how Suva, Efate, Luganville, and Pago Pago are looking? The reason I ask is that if you are worried about Autovictory, these represent big potential grabs for Japan. The have a base victory value of 50, 50, 75, and 25. Suva is worth 1750 points for Japan if fully built out! My point being that reinforcing these bases may be more in your interest in terms of avoiding autovictory than a Gilberts operation. They also would be less exposed and more capable of having mutually supporting bases nearby. The only reason I point this out is that you have indicated numerous times that you beleive your opponent is thinking in terms of Autovictory. If that is true, you may want to look at these areas as they represetn huge chunks of VP that can be taken "on the cheap".

<re-enter lurk mode>

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Post #: 1037

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 6:33:23 PM

Canoerebel

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Those are good thoughts, Tim. I definitely think Steve is assembling a puzzle that leads to auto victory, so Noumea, Fiji and even New Zealand could work into his plans at some point.

My current plan, which will be under evaluation until it takes place, if ever, is to overhwelm Tarawa and adjacent islands, all of which are believed lightly held, and to then leave behind fairly small garrisons wihile deploying 32nd Div. and some of the regiment-sized units further south. Sending 32nd to Noumea or Fiji might be a very good call. (If things heat up in the meantime, I can forego Tarawa in favor of an immediate deployment further south).

Steve hasn't shown anything in SoPac yet. I have three combat TFs more or less on perpetual patrol in the area between Tarawa and Fiji, so I'm pretty confident in saying he hasn't been sniffing around, though that may change at any moment.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/16/2012 9:12:46 PM

Lomri

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Any movement in the Solomons? This area sounds like it hasn't had a lot of activity so your readers, or at least THIS reader, isn't sure if anything interesting is going on down there besides PM. How about Canton or TB? (TB being that one with the light industry with a 60k stack limit that I can't remember how to spell).

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1039

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/17/2012 7:13:36 PM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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4/26/42

My children and I came up with a saying while watching the movie Defiance earlier this summer. At one point in this drama, which deals with Jewish resistance to the Nazis in Belarus, the main character, named Tuvia, appears with white dust coating some of his facial hair. When this happened, I spoke up to add these lines to the movie: "Tuvia, what the heck? Your eyebrows are white!"

In the game, today I say: "Steve, what the heck? Seven IJA divisions are at Singapore!"

Singers: Seven IJA divisions are present, including 53rd fresh from Tokyo, and 38th and 56th fresh from Port Blair. Singers is out of supply, so Steve might overwhelm the garrison in short order, freeing up a big army to go elsewhere and considerably shortening his LOC to India, but man, I think this is a mistake on his part. Singapore could be left to wither on the vine while he inserted that army in Oz or India to really drive home his advantage. If Singers ends up holding on like Clark Field did....well, that would really hurt Steve.

Carriers: I know where mine are. I don't know where Steve's are. Indestructibe just arrived at Capetown.

India: Even before discovering the whereabouts (Singers) of the two divisions late at Port Blair, I felt like Steve doesn't have enough to handle things in India. If he's not careful, he'll find himself on the defensive. On the other hand, if I'm not carefuly I could get irreplaceable units isolated and destroyed. So a very tense game is going on in this theater. 18th Div. is ashore at Goa and heading to Surat. I don't particularly want to reveal too much about what units I have in India right now. I am concerened that Steve will figure out just how weak Oz is at the moment. If he sends those seven Singers divisions to Perth or Townsville, I'm going to have a problem. Not that seven divisions could take Sydney or Melbourne, but that he could take bases in close enough proxmity to permit strategic bombing, which will give him alot of Victory Points. That is a real and present danger. In fact, unless he gets moving in India, that's the biggest threat I could face (well, toss in China too, of course).

China: I've issued ordered to evacuate Sian. This will be the first time I've lost this key base. I can hold on at Lanchow for a bit, but pretty quickly I'll have to withdraw there to keep MLR integrity. I'm a little concerend about the attrition my Changsha sector troops suffered in the recent ill-fated offensive, but that sector has to rely on itself for its defense. Perhaps some of the disruption will heal fairly quickly. Here's hoping.

North America: Quiet. Only one of the Tarawa/Noumea/Oz troops has made it to Los Angeles. This will take another few days.

(in reply to Lomri)

Post #: 1040

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/17/2012 7:59:21 PM

BBfanboy

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Lest you get too inspired by British ship names, just keep in mind that "Indestructable" isn't.

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(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1041

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/18/2012 1:12:28 AM

Canoerebel

Posts: 21100
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From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
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4/27/42 and 4/28/42

India: Calcutta fell today. No sign of additional IJA divisions or major units in India.

China: Sian evacuated as the Chinese work to establish their new MLR to the rear. No major IJ moves in the Changsha sector yet, but I'm expecting something soon. Japan took the first base inside China from Burma, but the force coming may not be strong enough to get very far. I think I have enough down there to impede progress significantly.

North America: Quiet. The troops are at LA and standing down to combat mode. They'll go via amphibious TF. Originally, the plan was to go strategic, unload at Christmas, and reload combat. But Christmas is just a level two port, so that would take forever. The main targets are Tarawa, Abemama, Nauru and Ocean.

Pacific: Three army battalions are boarding ships at Hawaii. These little units will garrison Ndeni, Luganville and Efate.

Oz: This is what worries me.

The plan that worries me most now is that Steve will next devote six or eight or ten divisions to Oz to gain airfields from which to engage in points-rich strategic bombing campaign. There's not alot I can do to stop this, but 32nd US Div. is meant to serve as a reserve. I can also call on a number of American units that begin arriving at Capetown in the coming weeks. All fighters currently at Hawaii are going to Oz. Roughly ten USA AA units arriving at Capetown can go to either Oz or India, wherever the need seems greatest.

About India: I am concerend, but not greatly. The Allies already have vastly more units and supply than I did in my game with Q-Ball, and there I was facing 20 enemy divisions by late March, early April. Steve is moving slowly. Even if he brings everything soon, he's still way later than he should have been. It will be difficult for him to "go deep quick," since the Allies have stout garrisons at Socatra, Surat and Bhaumgardner (spelling?).

I think Steve wants to establish positions in China, North America, Oz and India from which he can generate some major victory points through Strat Boming (North America and Oz) and troop liquidation (China and maybe India). His risk is that he might be too slow in moving and too diluted to hold what he might take long term. Eventually, he''s going to have problems in India if he doesn't give it everything he's got.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1042

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/18/2012 3:16:30 AM

BBfanboy

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CR, it doesn't sound like you have a big shipping lane to Oz to worry about so I am unclear as to the strategy behind taking Tarawa et al in the SOPAC sector. You dent his perimeter a bit but you can't really threaten anything vital to Japan (like Rabaul) yet in this area. Is the idea just to interrupt his plans a little and hope he draws troops from elsewhere to garrison other islands in the area?

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Post #: 1043

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/18/2012 12:46:36 PM

Canoerebel

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4/29/42

China: It looks like Steve has pulled his main Sian-sector army back. He may be using interior lines to get them down to the Changsha or Chengtu sectors, both of which would be bad news for the Allies. An IJ para takes vacant Sian. The Chinese have started the withdrawal from Lanchow, with the goal of setting up a strong perimeter in the woods south of Sian, while some of the troops head further south and east to lend a hand with what will probably become another problem sector.

India: 27th/A and 27th/B USA Div. arrives at Bombay in two days.

North America: Quiet. Two more days until the "South Seas Expeditionary Force" begins loading on the amphibious TFs at Los Angeles.

(in reply to BBfanboy)

Post #: 1044

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/18/2012 8:14:31 PM

Canoerebel

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4/30/42

India: Quiet except for Allied troops coming in and getting posted. At this moment it does not seem that Steve intends to push inland from his current perimter.

China: Quiet at the moment. Not even vast waves of bombers these past few days. I think Steve is shifting a big army from the Sian sector down to the Changsha or Chengte sector. We'll see.

North America: The big amphibious forces begins loading at Los Angeles. This group will head south. If things heat up in Australia, they'll continue on there. If things look propitiuos, however, they'll strike Tarawa, Abemama, Tabituea and Ocean Islands. D-Day possibly about 15 to 20 days.

Oz: Quiet, but I have a hunch that is temporary.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1045

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/19/2012 9:40:59 AM

JocMeister

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A word of warning concerning China...again!

With Sian lost your supply situation will become even more dire. I still strongly believe that China is impossible to defend in its current state in Scenario 1 and 2 if the Jap player makes an effort. We are already seeing this in many AARs where the Jap player can steamroll China in under a year. This is a serious balance flaw that you unfortunately are stuck with!

I think you really need to consider how you will handle this. You will soon find yourself with more AV then supply. Without supply your AV is useless. I would start planning how to do an exodus to India with the whole Chinese army if the situation demands it. Once you loose Changsha and the oil from Lanchow its game over in China.

I think the only two options viable to you are to either withdraw to India or go all in from India and try to reopen supply.

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1046

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/19/2012 12:09:13 PM

ny59giants

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China is a lot different if you are playing with stacking limits. However, if you were to compare Q-Ball's situation vs mine playing the same DBB mod, the situations are a lot different. We are less than 2 weeks behind and it is already a stalemate, IMO. The situation in India/Burma changes a lot when you have those limits.

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RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/20/2012 10:35:17 PM

StK

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Subscribed

Even if I can't help you much with the postcount as I'm reading both (^^,).
(Although I don't know diddlysquat about the finer parts of the game yet and couldn't give advice anyway)

edit: Ahh I nearly forgot. Could you make some pictures of the situation in the different theatres. It would help newbies like me understand whats actually going on (^^,).

< Message edited by StK -- 8/20/2012 10:37:23 PM >

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Post #: 1048

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/21/2012 4:15:04 AM

Canoerebel

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5/1/42 and 5/2/42

StK, thanks. I'm glad you're reading. I posted a series of screen shots of China, India, and the Bay of Bengal over the past week or so of game time. Check back a few pages for turns since about 4/15/42 and you'll get the pictoral presentation.

India: Current deployment of Imperial Guards and other IJA divisions in NE India show no present expansion of the Japanese perimeter. The Allies are bringing forward infantry and armor, as I will explain below.

China: I'm nearly positive Steve is reconfiguring his army to achieve overwhelming odds at Changsha. I can't bring meaningful reinforcements in before his guys get there. Meanwhile, I'm not completely collapsing the Lanchow sector yet. I want to see if he's going to force the issue there short term. If not it might be worth holding for awhile.

North America: Big Zero sweep over Vancouver. I think the Allies came out ahead, at least in terms of pilots. In terms of airframes it was close to 1:1. I just don't think the Japanese can win an air war at this range. Steve just has to come for Coal Harbor, which means I need to get reinforcements there.

Pacific: The Gilberts invasion force departs Los Angeles tonight.

Oz: I think the KB is escorting an invasion force into the Perth sector. I'll concede that region. I'm also very glad to know the whereabouts of the KB.

The Nemo Factor: Nemo is a big fan of keeping an opponent off balance through a series of blows. I don't recall the name of that strategy, but its been interesting to see PzH employ it in the game. To this point I don't think this has been very successful, unless he actually tricked me into stripping Oz (to go to India's aid) when he actually intends ot move on Oz. More about that below.

Does She or Doesn't She (and obscure reference to an old hair-coloring commercial): Does Steve want me to commit my troops forward in India so that he can cut them off? I think so. But I also prefer for Steve to focus on India as opposed to Oz. Therefore, I am committing my army forward in India. I will begin to press Steve's perimeter. I will of course keep an careful eye on Bombay and Karachi, but with Socatra secure, I think it would be nearly impossible for Steve to make a full India move now.

Maskirovka? Steve sent a very interesting email late today. In essence, he said he's nearly at his high-water mark and about to transition over to the defensive. That would suit me just fine. Even if this was straightforward and not maskirovka, I think he'll still come for SW Oz (Perth) plus China. But if he pulls back in India and NE Oz that would be shocking to me. He's got his boot on my neck. I've got to fight hard against strangulation So, is he suddenly going to let off some of the pressure?

(in reply to StK)

Post #: 1049

RE: War and Peas - Hortlund (J) vs. Canoe (A) - 8/21/2012 1:47:19 PM

BBfanboy

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I strongly doubt his stated intention to stop expanding. Giving up Perth is reasonable, but I would want to keep Port Augusta safe - it is the direct rail link to Alice Springs and the best way to get supplies up the central area. Unload a ship at Pt. Augusta and Alice Springs can build or pass on supplies to Tennant Creek.

I think the India entrenchment means he has the VPs he came for in Calcutta and he is going after more easy points before you can shift forces to stop him.
I don't know a Tarawa invasion would cause him to interrupt his plans but an Australian counterattack would start to reverse the strategic gains. Even better will be when you can take back some NOPAC bases. Now that your carriers no longer have to rely on Buffalos for defence, you have a chance to challenge him here and there.

Definitely a tense and unusual situation - I still think you can beat his scattergun strategy with limited defence while building up your counter-punch. Good Luck!

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No matter how bad a situation is, you can always make it worse. - Chris Hadfield : An Astronaut's Guide To Life On Earth

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1050

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