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Private sector RETIRING - 7/29/2012 2:15:41 AM   
sPOONz

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/21/2011
Status: offline 		In my current game as humans, year 2789, Ive just noticed that almost all of my private sector is gone. All but 3 small freighters. I used the editor to add some more into the game but after one delivery they retire at my spaceport.

During the beginning years of my game I had noticed all my passenger ships disappear but thought it was some issue that would resolve itself. Now it appears that all this time, my private sector has been dwindling away.

I assume this is a bug, any suggestions on how to fix it?

P.S Im playing DW Legends 1.7.0.16
Post #: 1
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/29/2012 3:14:50 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		This has been a huge problem for a long while and is the primary reason I have quit playing DW, other than to test a beta and see if it has been fixed. As an empire matures, the merchant fleet disappears and occasionally partially reappears. This makes it impossible to pursue a construction project and has a severe impact on population happiness as luxury goods cease to flow. This has been reported several times and no comment has come from the developers. The game would be unplayable without the AI managing the civilian sector, but perhaps the player should be allowed some control over whether the AI is allowed to scrap freighters or to set a minimum cargo fleet level. Anyway, for long, big games, it can be a game killer.

< Message edited by solops -- 7/30/2012 3:19:30 AM >

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to sPOONz)
Post #: 2
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/29/2012 3:56:52 PM   
sPOONz

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/21/2011
Status: offline 		Oh, damn that sucks.

I was not aware of this bug. I see why you have stopped playing Distant Worlds. If this has been an issue for sometime its disconcerting to hear that its still unresolved. Do you find it happens in all your games, or just rarely? I have played on and off since I bought DW and have not experienced this yet. That said, I have stopped playing each time due some game problem/bug.

"for long, big games, it can be a game killer." Yeah, totally. I only play long and slow games. Such a bug is a complete game-breaker for me.


(in reply to solops)
Post #: 3
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/29/2012 9:06:00 PM   
Arcatus


Posts: 197
Joined: 1/2/2012
Status: offline 		What government are you using?

One type - Corporate Nationalism - give you a huge boost to income, but it will eventually drive your private sector into bankruptcy; witch will force it to retire ships.

(in reply to sPOONz)
Post #: 4
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/30/2012 3:20:53 AM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		Republic or Way of the Ancients. I sometime eschew WotA because it can make one overwhelming to the AI.

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to Arcatus)
Post #: 5
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/30/2012 8:33:51 AM   
sPOONz

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/21/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Arcatus

What government are you using?



Good news, I think. I used the game editor to change my government from Democracy to Republic and added in a bunch of freighters, 6 each for small, medium and large types. After 30mins the freighters were still in use. Some retired but I think that was the a.i getting rid of unnecessary freighters.

My private sector economy appears to be heading into a healthy direction now as well. Its cashflow has gone from -4k to +7k.

Later today I'll resume playing normally. Hopefully using the editor this way has resolved this bug.

(in reply to Arcatus)
Post #: 6
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/30/2012 1:00:36 PM   
sPOONz

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/21/2011
Status: offline 		Good news again. My private sectors 'cash in hand' had bloated to a tragic -200k. It just occurred to me that's why the private sector has disappeared from my game. How it ended up so bad Ive no idea. Anyway, to remedy the situation I scrapped all my Mining Stations, which was a lot. Soon enough, the private sector was rolling in the money and an explosion of activity happened. About 40 new a.i ships appeared, (tho no passenger ships yet.) I'll continue playing and hope this issue is resolved.

Edit: Passenger Ships have been created. Took some time but 3 have just appeared. Its all looking good now.

< Message edited by sPOONz -- 7/30/2012 1:31:28 PM >

(in reply to sPOONz)
Post #: 7
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/30/2012 3:46:16 PM   
Arcatus


Posts: 197
Joined: 1/2/2012
Status: offline 		Great!

And we are getting close to a cause of the problem as well :D

From what I understand the maintenance cost of your mining stations caused a negative private cash flow.

Do you have many automated constructors? Or do you manually build many mining stations?
Have you upgraded the mining stations with weapons or fighterbays?


(in reply to sPOONz)
Post #: 8
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/30/2012 5:12:58 PM   
sPOONz

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/21/2011
Status: offline 		Yeah. It seems as though the problem was merely that my private sector had gotten to much demand placed on it, not a game technical glitch. Hard to say why that may have been though. I don't upgrade my Mining Station designs, so their upkeep would be default. I use both manual placement of mines and automation. However I only place mines on a few luxury resources as the game plays out. Still, perhaps at that time the private sector was already stretched and my few placements were enough to push the economy into a permanent negative. Im not sure. I'll continue playing and keeping an eye on the private sector.

I would say also, that although my private sector has recovered, its treading a fine line between profit and loss.

(in reply to Arcatus)
Post #: 9
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 7/31/2012 3:30:00 PM   
Jeeves


Posts: 940
Joined: 9/28/2010
From: Arlington TN U.S.A
Status: offline 		Cut taxes to zero at all colonies. That's probably your problem. You get the money from the civilians when they buy ships, so it really costs nothing.

Lonnie Courtney Clay


_____________________________

Live long and prosper!

Lonnie Courtney Clay

(in reply to sPOONz)
Post #: 10
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/1/2012 9:08:49 PM   
sPOONz

 

Posts: 23
Joined: 12/21/2011
Status: offline 		Just wanted to leave a final update to this thread. All is good. The private sector has sorted itself out now, their 'cash in hand' is around 650k. I hope this helps anyone else with similar issues.

(in reply to Jeeves)
Post #: 11
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/22/2012 3:08:17 AM   
Lex Talionias

 

Posts: 11
Joined: 8/15/2012
Status: offline 		wow, that is really cool.

like reading this thread I was kinda depressed to see that the game had such a killer bug but to see that it was actually just a depression killing your private sector... awesome!

Although reading this thread is seems that the game would work well with a bail out feature where you effectively dump money into your private sector to boot it up again.

(in reply to sPOONz)
Post #: 12
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/22/2012 4:18:43 PM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Lex Talionias

wow, that is really cool.

like reading this thread I was kinda depressed to see that the game had such a killer bug but to see that it was actually just a depression killing your private sector... awesome!

Although reading this thread is seems that the game would work well with a bail out feature where you effectively dump money into your private sector to boot it up again.


The feature already exists. It is called TAX!

(in reply to Lex Talionias)
Post #: 13
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/23/2012 6:14:26 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline 		Cutting taxes to zero does not prevent the elimination of the trade fleet. The empire, public and private, may still be operating at a profit, but without the trade fleet construction projects are often crippled and population happiness is negatively effected. This has been and still is a problem. Something in the automanager does not take into account all of the factors beyond the gross supply/demand for basic needs. As I have mentioned elsewhere I have run a 70+ colony empire for 20 years at peace just to test this and have seen construction stop and happiness slip or go to hell with taxes cut to nothing and stockpiles of goods, luxury and otherwise, sitting around unused because my 900+ ship cargo fleet went to Zero. And yet I still made a small profit in both private and public secotrs, though the private sector cash flow was volatile (no surprise there...). The only time I could get new cargo ships built was by adding a new colony. The AI would build 6 or 10 ships after the colonization. After a few years, as the colony developed, they disappeared. Any construction elsewhere in the galaxy that needed materials that existed in abundance at different locations went back on hold.

No, something in the private sector needs to be fixed.

< Message edited by solops -- 8/23/2012 6:21:29 PM >

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 14
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/23/2012 8:13:20 PM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		The only time I have seen freighters scrapped is when the private sector is running at a deficit.

If the automanager is causing the private sector to go into deficit that is definitely a problem with the automanager.  If you as a player run your private economy into a deficit that is a problem with the player.

If, on the other hand, the freighters are being scrapped while you have a decent positive private cashflow that would be a real problem.  Solops, can you confirm that this is the case because I have never seen it.  Maybe post a savegame for the developers?

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 15
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/23/2012 11:15:13 PM   
Panpiper

 

Posts: 64
Joined: 7/9/2005
Status: offline 		Something I've gotten into the habit of doing, and I have no idea really if it is as helpful as I think it is, is to redesign my mining and gas mining 'ships' to make them as big as my construction allows, at least in the beginning of the game. I double up their mining and more than double their cargo capacity, and add just enough engine to not slow them down.

I labor under the idea (illusion?) that these ships will likely wind up mining whatever my economy most needs, and so I want them to be as effective as possible.

Of course I also redesign my mining and gas bases to have 3 of each of the requisite collectors. No sense loosing one third of their mining capacity for virtually the same maintenance cost.

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 16
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/24/2012 1:26:23 PM   
solops

 

Posts: 814
Joined: 1/31/2002
From: Central Texas
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller

If, on the other hand, the freighters are being scrapped while you have a decent positive private cashflow that would be a real problem.  Solops, can you confirm that this is the case because I have never seen it.  Maybe post a savegame for the developers?



That was done months ago. This is an old problem, present through several betas, that seems to afflict large, old empires.

_____________________________

All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.-Edmund Burke
Liberty lies in the hearts of men and women; if it dies there, no constitution, no law, no court can save it.-Judge Learned Hand

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 17
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/27/2012 1:50:37 AM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		I've now got this for the first time, I've had this game for two years and never come across this issue. After the latest patch I'm just playing along normally and realise my entire empire has come to a halt (all construction is taking forever). I then open up the empire summary and realise I have only 2 freighters, what the???

lol, 2 freighters, no mining ships, no passenger ships...

Does anyone know a way to see a list of exactly everything an AI empire has? I'd like to check that they aren't having the same problem too. Maintenence costs have gone up because weapons have been added to mining bases for a start!

Man that is annoying.

Edit: Further Investigation

I think it is the private sector trying to avoid negative cashflow. It has a positive cash flow of 11k, but this is rather small considering I've seen many 100k in previous games. I have managed my mining as I always do, but it looks like the increased maintenence due to the arming of mining bases has caused an issue here. lol, and I was about the only person in the world who said all along the arming of mining bases was a waste of time I consider my opinion vindicated now!

Also, I'm taxing at about 90% lol. But seriously, last time I played as Shandar I was taxing at 99% at one point and still not getting this issue. Time to watch the private sector more carefully from now on (I usually don't even think about it at all).

< Message edited by WoodMan -- 8/27/2012 2:08:42 AM >

_____________________________

"My body may be confined to this chair, but my mind is free to explore the universe" - Stephen Hawking

(in reply to solops)
Post #: 18
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/27/2012 11:21:05 PM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline 		Wpodman, if you go into the game editor, edit empires, select desired empire, edit empire and then tab to 'Shps and Bases' you will get a list of all the ships and bases that empire currently has. You will need to repeat 19 times (assuming you have 19 others ).

Edit: Guess I'm not a person then ! It did not turn out to be the holy grail of cpu player improvement many were predicting at the time. The better ships have made much more difference in my opinion.

On topic, I wonder if the private sector temporarily got into negative cash flow and the freighters were ordered disbanded at that point? If so the goal would be to make sure the private sector never runs a deficit.

< Message edited by feelotraveller -- 8/27/2012 11:27:36 PM >

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 19
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/28/2012 12:13:06 AM   
WoodMan


Posts: 1345
Joined: 6/2/2010
From: Ol' Blighty
Status: offline 		Started a new game (this mass exodus of the private sector in my last game happened in about first 10 years) and this time I'm running taxes around the 30% mark instead of the 90% mark and the private sector is growing instead of shrinking.

_____________________________

"My body may be confined to this chair, but my mind is free to explore the universe" - Stephen Hawking

(in reply to feelotraveller)
Post #: 20
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/28/2012 2:59:24 AM   
adecoy95


Posts: 420
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		you have to be careful about how much you touch the private sector, i once experimented with huge population ships to help boost up colonies, and discovered that they did not care how many of them they built, they were trying to reach some predetermined % goal most likely.

i find the private sector works best when you don't mess with it too much.

(in reply to WoodMan)
Post #: 21
RE: Private sector RETIRING - 8/28/2012 4:03:21 AM   
Erik Rutins

 

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline 		Hi guys,

If you have a situation that looks like a bug rather than just consequences of gameplay decisions, please upload a save file for us and we will investigate.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC



For official support, please use our Help Desk: http://www.matrixgames.com/helpdesk/

Freedom is not Free.

(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 22
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