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How was your first campaign against PC?

 
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How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 4:26:24 PM   
fulcrum28


Posts: 660
Joined: 2/28/2010
Status: offline 		How was your first campaign against PC? Did you use planning maps a lot? did you take notes? how long did it take you?

Im just starting this new one, printed planning maps too... :)
Post #: 1
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 4:54:32 PM   
nashvillen


Posts: 3836
Joined: 7/3/2006
From: Christiana, TN
Status: offline 		Canoerebel is right, deleted my post.

< Message edited by nashvillen -- 8/22/2012 7:10:12 PM >

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Post #: 2
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 5:30:06 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: fulcrum28

How was your first campaign against PC? Did you use planning maps a lot? did you take notes? how long did it take you?

Im just starting this new one, printed planning maps too... :)


I played as the Allies against the Japanese AI when I first got the game. I played until 4/42. I had butchered the Japanese navy and was irritated by the number of AI cheats that were employed in the game, so I stopped there.

I took notes, but never used planning maps, IIRC. The abortive campaign took me maybe 2-3 months of real time to get that far.

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Post #: 3
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 5:36:05 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		I toyed around with the Coral Sea and Guadalcanal scenarios briefly, then moved into PBEM. I couldn't bring myself to play against the AI now.

(This will probably turn into a PBEM vs. AI and vice versa thread. It always does, though it shouldn't. Many people really enjoy playing against the AI. Some folks are not in a position to PBEM even if they could. There's plenty of room for both camps, so why swerve into an "us against them" thread?)

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 4
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 5:46:20 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

I toyed around with the Coral Sea and Guadalcanal scenarios briefly, then moved into PBEM. I couldn't bring myself to play against the AI now.

(This will probably turn into a PBEM vs. AI and vice versa thread. It always does, though it shouldn't. Many people really enjoy playing against the AI. Some folks are not in a position to PBEM even if they could. There's plenty of room for both camps, so why swerve into an "us against them" thread?)


Yer right. There's no reason why people can't just answer the OP's question and leave it at that.

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Post #: 5
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 5:55:00 PM   
Canoerebel


Posts: 21100
Joined: 12/14/2002
From: Northwestern Georgia, USA
Status: offline 		You mean like me?

(in reply to Chickenboy)
Post #: 6
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 6:10:05 PM   
morganbj


Posts: 3634
Joined: 8/12/2007
From: Mosquito Bite, Texas
Status: offline 		I played one of the short scenarios, then jumped right into a CG as the allies against the AI. I played for about a game week, maybe two, then restarted. I learned a lot about what to expect.

The next CG lasted until maybe 4/42. I had learned a whole lot more, so I restarted again.

That third game lasted probably 18 months of real time and went well into 1944.

Since that time, I've played maybe three other "full" games that lasted well into 1945 with stock. In each case, I had "won" the game already, but wanted to see my strategies play out. I'm playing a DaBabes scenario now and am trying a "from the south and west strategy," i.e., no island hopping through the central pacific. It's loads of fun and I'm getting ready for a massive invasion of the Phillipines. Still moving down toward Singapore in Malaya, though. I play to try out strategies, not "win" the game.

I would not be a very good PBEM opponent. My playing time comes in spurts. Some weekends I play maybe a month of game time, some weekends none. During the week, I can only get three or four game days in. I'm testing other games, so I have to stop when there's a new patch to play, then some quasi-dead time while all the fixes are made.


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Post #: 7
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 6:24:54 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline 		Started 30 November 2010. Still going, it is now 14 September 1943. So far so good. Not much with planning maps. I did create a planning map with all dark blue ocean hexes converted to white for ease of viewing if I ever do use the planning map. I do take notes. If anyone wold like this planning map I would happy to e-mail it to them.

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Post #: 8
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 6:41:23 PM   
jmalter

 

Posts: 1673
Joined: 10/12/2010
Status: offline 		i'm in 4/43 of a DBB_B GC vs. the IJ AI, using 2-day turns. i don't use printed maps, but use Tracker extensively & keep a written-out notebook. it's got graph-paper pages.

part of the notebook lists each current land-combat hex in columns. the latest entry under "89, 39 near Yenan" is "JD 803:538 ^", meaning IJ Deliberate attack IJ 803 raw AV:AL 538 raw AV, the up-arrow indicates the Allies inflicted substantial damage. some land-combats last for months, it's useful to have a daily record to see how the combat is trending over time. this section also records arriving air-groups & subs that have been damaged.

another part of the notebook is for amph-attack planning, units for each target are listed, along w/ their troop/cargo size (adjusted for amph load size) & stacking size.

another part lists which off-loaded carrier/floatplane groups belong to which ship, 'cos i off-load the planes for training whenever a ship is docked for upgrading. also i'll write down the date when i put a carrier-capable sqn on a carrier, after 90 days it'll be carrier-trained.

(in reply to morganbj)
Post #: 9
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 7:44:29 PM   
jb123


Posts: 276
Joined: 8/6/2009
Status: offline 		I never finished a game versus the AI, but I brought a few into 1944. I had a "major victory" my late 1942 every time. The trick is, I think, to not break the AI. this means, let them have places you could defend, and leave some assets at home. Don't rush divisions forward, protect major ports with fighters even though the AI will never show the initiative to attack those places. Try to play somewhat historically. This will make for a more rewarding experience later in the war, when (if playing as Allies) you have all sorts of toys you want to play with.

As far as planning: I used tracker a bit, but that tends to bog down as you get a lot of turns loaded. The biggest thing I did is create a ton of spreadsheets. I have one spreadsheet with every allied infantry, BF, AA, Arty, ENG, and CD unit in 1942 with fields for the preparation target, staging base, and final destination. This way, when a unit shows up say, in Eastern USA, I can immediately consult my spreadsheet, set its preparation target, and ship it in strat move to its staging base and have amphibs available to move it to its final destination. Hundreds of units are in this spreadsheet, and it gives me a realistic timetable of when I can sufficiently defend certain places.

I made a similar spreadsheet with every Japanese divison listed. It has fields for the last location I spotted it, the date I spotted it, etc, so I can track where the Japanese are planning their major assaults. This is more useful for PBEM, but it's important to set good habits while playing the AI, otherwise, you will get hurt in a PBEM game.

Playing the AI is fun, but breaking the AI can make for a real boring game, real fast.

Of course, I am embroiled in a PBEM now that is sucking way too much of my real life time up, but the experience is not even comparable. PBEM is a real cliffhanger, I'm not sure if I will ever be able to go back to playing the AI

< Message edited by jb123 -- 8/22/2012 7:46:14 PM >

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Post #: 10
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 7:44:43 PM   
Chris21wen

 

Posts: 6249
Joined: 1/17/2002
From: Cottesmore, Rutland
Status: offline 		I played Scenario 1 on very hard as the Allies from AEs release finishing last month during at game time Jul 1945.  I did win win easily off course, the AI is dumb but I restricted myself to play using the historical time line (more or less).   I would not have lasted if I thought the game wasn't worth it against the AI.

My only wish is the AI wasn't quite so dumb otherwise I had no problems and I'm now playing the Japanese using the same timeline.  Obviously taking such places as PM, Imphal, Midway etc could well take me outside the time line so I'll have to play it by ear.

(in reply to jmalter)
Post #: 11
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 7:45:31 PM   
Stvitus2002

 

Posts: 261
Joined: 1/24/2005
Status: offline 		First full campaign lasted just over a year in real time. Called
it in august 43, as i had "broken" the computer opponent. AI had
no tankers or AO's of any kind. Maybe just over 30 AK's, some damaged.
The only active resistance was in Burma & to a lesser extent China.
All south & central pacific bases had zero supply. Even Truk had less
that 2000 fuel points. Checked the Home islands, seem to remember that
only Tokyo had any fuel, less than 4000.
The AI does not know when to quit,it will keep attacking an objective
until it's entire stock of AP/AK's are sunk or the script ends.



WO 0/0

(in reply to fulcrum28)
Post #: 12
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 8:46:06 PM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline 		I play strictly against the AI. While a PBEM might be fun, I just don't have the ability to commit to it. I frequently have days where I would not feel like/be able to do a turn, sometimes 2-3 days in a row, and it just wouldn't be fair to my opponent.

As Bullwinkle stated in another thread, playing against the AI removes these obstacles, so then it's a matter of making the game fun...

I finally gave up on my first game last week. It was in January or February of 1943, and the VP ratio was 2.48:1 in my favor. I was desperately trying to get the 3:1 autovictory in 1943, but it was looking to be a long, grinding, and monotonous process. I was kicking Japan out of China (at the gates of Shanghai and Taiyuan, sieging Hong Kong, marching into Vietnam). I had held Java and Balikpapan. The AI IJN had lost something like 1200 ships, which included 8 CV, 3 CVL, 3 CVE, 3 CS, 17 CAs, 19 CLs (leaving 6), 101 DDs, and 20 SS's (most bagged from a CV raid on Truk, but some from taking Hanoi). What was left, to my knowledge:

Yamato, extremely damaged (took over 20 bombs and one torp from a sub)
Musashi, not sure if I ever saw it. Now that I've quit playing that game, I should load it up and see if it even got built.
Hiei, in port somewhere (I can't believe it didn't sink, it took 2-3 torps and lots of shell hits in a surface action against N Carolina and 2 CAs)
Haruna, sitting with Hiei somewhere
Nagato, bombed like crazy
Mutsu, don't think I saw it after the initial phases of the war
1 CA, unsure which

I sunk so many TKs and AKs during 1942 that I'm not sure there are enough left to fuel the AI's industry (from what few resource areas the AI even captured), other than perhaps a/c production.

I had just finished retaking Mindanao (the AI never succeeded in wiping out all resistance there), invaded Luzon via Legaspi and was bogged down in Manila with 900 AV vs 400+forts, and slowly taking down the fortifications at Palembang to liberate it. I lost a couple CAs, some British BBs, and Lexington. It was a close thing with Hornet and Saratoga once, but USN CVs are surprisingly durable at times (especially Saratoga, it seems).

In summary, I'm glad I started a new campaign against Hard AI. Still, I learned a ton in the first game, and not just about how to play but how I like the preferences (I'll never play with PDU off again, for example).

I also use a legal pad or notepad of what things I need to remember to check up on each turn, or every X turns, crossing them off as I get through them. I probably use one sheet per month of gameplay when the action is fast, and maybe one sheet per two months when it's not. It's very handy to have in front of me during the combat phase, too - I can jot down "Stand down Rabaul strike", for example, if my fighters are depleted and I'm suffering bomber losses in an AM strike, so that I don't forget to do so in between turns and suffer undue losses. When I do forget, I like to just chalk it up to a simulation of IRL chain of command or communications failure. The AI seems to need every advantage it can get.

< Message edited by Lokasenna -- 8/22/2012 8:47:08 PM >

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Post #: 13
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 8:55:48 PM   
Nikademus


Posts: 25684
Joined: 5/27/2000
From: Alien spacecraft
Status: offline 		playing the AI on Hard or Very Hard can be more rewarding. Hard frees the AI of logistical constraints so even if you blow up its supply ships the bases cut off will behave as if they have supply. Nothing one can do about scripted/non sensible moves but it can make assaulting strong positions problematic just like it was for the real life CO's.

Very Hard will add combat bonuses to the AI.

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Post #: 14
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 11:14:15 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline 		I'm having a little trouble getting the planning map to scale down the MB's as we have a crappy server here at the office. I'll try again tomorrow. I'll see what I do at home this evening.

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Post #: 15
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/22/2012 11:56:02 PM   
StK


Posts: 76
Joined: 8/18/2012
From: Upper Austria
Status: offline 		so from hard onwards convoy hunting doesn't accomplish anything vs. the AI?... hmm that's a big part of the game right out of the window (apart from the few of course that actually carry troops)

< Message edited by StK -- 8/22/2012 11:57:04 PM >

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Post #: 16
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 12:02:13 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		not even close to as much fun as PBEM, but very enjoyable.
Yes
Yes






I had to do alot of erasing anyway, but I prefer something to write on to.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 8/23/2012 12:11:00 AM >

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Post #: 17
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 12:32:22 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: zuluhour

not even close to as much fun as PBEM, but very enjoyable.
Yes
Yes






I had to do alot of erasing anyway, but I prefer something to write on to.


I'm afraid of the judging I would get from company if I did that . Excellent setup, I only have a corkboard with the Port Data reference sheet hung up on it.

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Post #: 18
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 12:33:48 AM   
Lokasenna


Posts: 9297
Joined: 3/3/2012
From: Iowan in MD/DC
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: StK

so from hard onwards convoy hunting doesn't accomplish anything vs. the AI?... hmm that's a big part of the game right out of the window (apart from the few of course that actually carry troops)


I'm not sure if anyone knows whether the "logistical bonuses" apply to needing fewer (or no) resources/oil/fuel for IJ industry.

(in reply to StK)
Post #: 19
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 12:37:19 AM   
zuluhour


Posts: 5244
Joined: 1/20/2011
From: Maryland
Status: offline 		Company is not allowed in HQ only the dining area and O lounge.

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Post #: 20
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 12:55:40 AM   
Sredni

 

Posts: 705
Joined: 9/30/2004
From: Canada
Status: offline 		One of the things I force myself to not do is kill the AI's carriers with land based squadrons. It's too easy to do, and not as much fun as carrier clashes are. So even if the AI marches his carriers through some heavily fortified death trap I've built I tend to shut down my strike packages until they pass. Carrier vs carrier is much more fun.


As for notes, I use sticky pads. My monitor (the edges), the TV next to it, and the wall to the right are all covered in sticky notes.

(in reply to zuluhour)
Post #: 21
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 4:09:47 AM   
Lcp Purcell

 

Posts: 78
Joined: 5/11/2009
Status: offline 		First game was scenario I from the Japaneses side. I made a whole bunch of mistakes but still wiped the floor with the Allies as my mop.

I have eviscerated, American fleet, Chungking fell 6/42, Karachi about a year latter, Vladivostok falls 12/43 with about a third of the soviet forces destroyed, and the rest with no hope of more supply.

The AI just keeps sending units into the frey piecemeal when they shouldn't.

I am starting a game as the Allies plan to run about a year or less of it. Then I hope to do a PMEM game.

(in reply to Sredni)
Post #: 22
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 12:46:48 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Played Coral Sea once, then Gua scen many times.  RL doesn't permit me a PBEM, so I now play a personal mod as IJ against Andy's Ironman (essentially, but I beefed the allies up a "bit" more in the '44 -'46 timeframe ... the allied production doesn't slack off in my mod .. so more a/c, more ships, and more LCU devices for them).  Play on Norm with 2 -3 days/month on Hard (per Andy's suggestions for the Ironman scen's ... a lot of bases have supply sources and allied pilots come into the pool at 60-70 exp).

Avoiding any deep end rushes, and no CV hunting allows for a fun game.  Not PBEM by any means.  Hopefully RL will allow me to start a PBEM in a few years ... I'm not holding my breath.

Planning?    I'm pretty sure Mike Solli and I would have similar stacks of paper and the MB files sizes of our Excel sheets would also be comparable.   Let's just lot's and leave it at that.*


* Doesn't include the copious amount of notes regarding my mod, changelog, and design guide.  woof.   

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Post #: 23
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 1:39:40 PM   
Empire101


Posts: 1950
Joined: 5/20/2008
From: Coruscant
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

playing the AI on Hard or Very Hard can be more rewarding. Hard frees the AI of logistical constraints so even if you blow up its supply ships the bases cut off will behave as if they have supply. Nothing one can do about scripted/non sensible moves but it can make assaulting strong positions problematic just like it was for the real life CO's.

Very Hard will add combat bonuses to the AI.


As a seasoned UV player, my first thought was that WitP AE would just be bigger and better. But it was so complicated when I first 'dived' in, I nearly lost the will to live.

My first game as the Japanese against the AI was extremely difficult and daunting. I was on the point of saying 'this is'nt for me', and then I discovered this fantastic forum. The helpful guys on this forum answered all my questions & soon pointed me in the right direction. I soon crushed my AI opponent.

I now mostly play PBEM, but I still dabble with the AI on V.Hard, between opponents. The AI on V.Hard will at least stop me getting rusty and/or complacent, and can always be relied upon to spring a suprise or two!!




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Post #: 24
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 2:05:41 PM   
henhute6

 

Posts: 100
Joined: 1/8/2002
From: Tehran
Status: offline 		I started learning this game by playing full campaign. It took 2 years in game time and real time to achieve victory condition. Now I'm playing the scenarios. It would have been maybe better to start with scenarios. :)

Strategy was quite basic and included taking Port Moresby, Milne Bay, Midway and solomons and fortifying them.

I'm still too lazy to use the tracker.

(in reply to Empire101)
Post #: 25
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/23/2012 4:03:30 PM   
Schanilec

 

Posts: 4040
Joined: 6/12/2010
From: Grand Forks, ND
Status: offline 		Planning map is ready in PDF form if anyone is interested. Send me a PM.

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Post #: 26
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/25/2012 12:14:55 PM   
Yaab


Posts: 4552
Joined: 11/8/2011
From: Poland
Status: offline 		My first campaign against Japanese AI never progressed past December 14, 1941. Too many units, too many ships - I got lost. I tried to play without notes and lost track of orders/movements for my units. I thought the game was epic but simply unplayable.

< Message edited by Yaab -- 8/25/2012 4:56:44 PM >

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Post #: 27
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/25/2012 1:23:16 PM   
Rising-Sun


Posts: 2082
Joined: 11/5/2009
From: Clifton Park, NY
Status: offline 		Yeah it very complex and so much going on for first scenario or full campaign. i tired to stick with it few times with PBEMs and didnt come out well, so everything i go back in play against the AIs, i knew something was missing that needed to be corrected in the game.

I am going to try it this time on my mod, with more accurate aircraft details on production, etcs. Maybe missing more than i ever though. Anyway i am going to try this one more time.

(in reply to Yaab)
Post #: 28
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/25/2012 3:57:02 PM   
JocMeister

 

Posts: 8262
Joined: 7/29/2009
From: Sweden
Status: offline 		I´ve started a gazillion times against the AI. First twenty times I probably just did a turn or two before realizing I messed something up pretty badly and started over. I actually made it to mid 43 one time before the AI ran out of ships.


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Post #: 29
RE: How was your first campaign against PC? - 8/26/2012 12:47:13 AM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		zuluhour -

A very impressive set up, Sir!

Mac

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Post #: 30
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