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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> The War Room >> Guards SU

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Guards SU - 8/24/2012 4:26:37 AM

Seminole

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Are ski battalions able to achieve Guards status?

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 4:50:13 AM

bigbaba

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hmm must be a guf or working as intended. after all with 20 wins they should be skiing like bode miller himself.:)

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 5:56:08 PM

turtlefang

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I don't know if ski bat can achieve Gd status but one question I would have - have you hit your Gd limit yet? If so, that might be preventing any promotions.

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 6:55:26 PM

hfarrish

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That's a lot of ski battalions - can you quantify their impact at all? I had sort of thought the thinking was that they weren't really worth the AP/manpower cost vis a vis just building more sappers (particularly since they are only useful 1/3rd of the year).

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 7:09:56 PM

Flaviusx

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I consider these a waste of APs, myself, compared to a sapper regiment.

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 8:40:47 PM

Seminole

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quote:

I don't know if ski bat can achieve Gd status but one question I would have - have you hit your Gd limit yet? If so, that might be preventing any promotions.

I posted in tech support and btns can't achieve Guards status. Don't remember seeing that in the manual, so live and learn.

quote:

That's a lot of ski battalions - can you quantify their impact at all? I had sort of thought the thinking was that they weren't really worth the AP/manpower cost vis a vis just building more sappers (particularly since they are only useful 1/3rd of the year).

Pound for pound probably nothing fights like sappers, but I wanted to try something different (instead of just building scads and scads of sappers). It's kind of a shame the designers went to all the trouble to include all these different TOE units and the desire to min/max the game engine results in players gravitating toward 'vanilla' armies.
The manual says, "Ski units will have their combat value (CV) doubled in snow and tripled in blizzard," but I think mine suffered from having incredibly poor experience (all of them in the 30s). In the battle results window their CV always showed as (0) during the blizzard. I don't watch the combat resolution at a msg level higher than 2, and haven't tried to sandbox their efficacy vs. other SU types.
I kind of want to keep them around until next winter to see if their improved experience results in better combat effectiveness. It would be nice if these existing ski btns could go ahead and be used for forming ski bdes...

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 9:04:57 PM

Schmart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Seminole
It's kind of a shame the designers went to all the trouble to include all these different TOE units and the desire to min/max the game engine results in players gravitating toward 'vanilla' armies.

yes it is a shame, as well as that the game system typically funnels the player into creating a 'gamey' army, rather than an historical one or at least something more historically plausible. It would be nice if they could at least put a limit on the number of units and SUs that can be built for each type, say historical numbers +10%. That way, you can't create a sapper or Cav Corps spam army, etc. Of course, much of this could have been avoided with including an actual historical OOB...

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 9:13:20 PM

hfarrish

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I think its one piece of evidence towards simply going to a historical reinforcement schedule, including SUs. I know that army building is not something I derive lots of joy from, mainly just hope I avoid doing something dumb.

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 9:24:48 PM

Schmart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: hfarrish

I think its one piece of evidence towards simply going to a historical reinforcement schedule, including SUs. I know that army building is not something I derive lots of joy from, mainly just hope I avoid doing something dumb.

Actually, last weekend I started my project for editing in a historical Russian reinforcement schedule for a 41-45 GC.

< Message edited by Schmart -- 8/24/2012 9:25:33 PM >

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RE: Guards SU - 8/24/2012 9:46:33 PM

hfarrish

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That's awesome - could be a very widely adopted mod.

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RE: Guards SU - 8/25/2012 1:19:10 AM

turtlefang

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To me, one of the great strenghts of this game system is allowing the Soviets to build the type of army that the player wants to build.

While I would like to see some more differentiation between the battalion support units, don't know that they missed the mark on the SKI battalions. Historically, the Soviets would create them in the winter and disband them in the spring. From what I can tell, they were made up from troops drawn from within the division - not in addition to the division - were non-standardized, weren't that well trained, and didn't have the specialized equipment to really be considered "winter fighting experts" like the Finns, for example.

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RE: Guards SU - 8/25/2012 1:46:17 AM

hfarrish

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I think it would be a greater strength if as has previously been suggested it occurred outside the AP system - not to say that you would have unlimited ability to create units, but lumping it in with C&C doesn't really make any sense and makes for bizzare decisions and limits the ability to experiment, leading to rule-gaming that has been mentioned before.

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RE: Guards SU - 8/25/2012 2:11:39 AM

lycortas

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I know Flav is going to castigate me and probably beat me with a stick, but i do build several ski brigades. I can bring them to high morale with refit and then use them on the Volkhov front in the winter '42-'43 and at that time they are much better than a rifle division.

Mike

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RE: Guards SU - 8/25/2012 2:46:58 AM

Flaviusx

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Shrug. If you can afford it, knock yourself out, but...seems to me the APs would be better spent at that time on Red Army 2.0, not specialty units for a secondary front like the Volkhov. And I'd sooner build some extra cav for this particular purpose over ski brigades. Similar performance year round and lot more CV.

That said, I dearly wish you could build mountain divisions...and upgrade those to mountain corps. Even at a premium they'd be worth it.

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RE: Guards SU - 8/25/2012 5:28:40 AM

lycortas

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A cavalry division is about the same CV as a ski brigade and with much less CV in winter. Ski brigades take much less manpower than a rifle division.

And when it comes right down to it, i play games for fun. If i build a few odd ball units it will not ruin the schedule of Red Army 2.0 .

I do completely agree on the mountain units.

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RE: Guards SU - 8/25/2012 6:53:41 AM

bigbaba

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from 1942 on i build nearly only rifle divisions and artillery divisions as new units.

cavalery divisions? no. you should have at least 10 or more strong guards cavalery corps. tank brigandes should be more then enough available to create enough tank corps. mech corps? need too many trucks which i don't have.

one should remember what won the war for the red army? infantry, artillery and armor. so keep it simple. and to make it even more effective and simple give all your corps units only sapper regiments as SU.

< Message edited by bigbaba -- 8/25/2012 6:57:26 AM >

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RE: Guards SU - 8/26/2012 2:21:40 AM

turtlefang

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And my style of play and build is more like yours tham always go for the absolute most efficent way to play. While I want to understand the most efficient way to play - and I do test it out against an enhanced AI (yes, I know, its not as good as a human), virtually all my email/pbm combat is with old friends.

We've long gotten pass the win only strategies and play more for the social enjoyment of the game, a common interest in history, and something to do together since we're ended up in different cities/countries.

If someone needs a do over on a turn, its really no big deal. So building a less that optimally efficient army but one that allows a variety of units is something that all of us do. The point is enjoyment not win at all cost - although bragging rights are always wanted.

Play for fun among strangers? Never sent it - its always play for blood. I used to keep a dozen different games going of different types for blood. I just don't have the time to pay this type of game anymore - it really requires a lot of time.

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Post #: 17