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HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 1:52:58 AM

WO Katsuki

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February 28, 1942

apparently during the last month I have only generated 261961 heavy industry units

during January 1942, I generated 434642 heavy industry

oil and resources are abundant

WHY IS MY HI OUTPUT DOWN BY HALF?

Post #: 1

RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:04:23 AM

TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum

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Ok, in order for HI to be generated you need Fuel and Resources at each base containing HI and in proper amounts.

Every factory of HI requires 20 resources and 2 fuel to produce 2 points of HI and 2 points of supply.

If you don't have Tracker running, I'd recommend getting it going.

If you're deadset against using Tracker, the least you can do is load up the industry screen and filter out everything but your HI, anything in red isn't producing HI, check those bases to make sure they have resources and fuel. A lack of either or both could be your problem. Make sure your fuel and resources aren't being pooled in an area, but instead are being drawn to all of the bases needing them. Messing around with stockpiling and pulling supplies can cause issues if you don't know what you're doing.

< Message edited by TheLoneGunman -- 9/1/2012 2:05:08 AM >

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:04:28 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WO Katsuki
February 28, 1942

apparently during the last month I have only generated 261961 heavy industry units

during January 1942, I generated 434642 heavy industry

oil and resources are abundant

WHY IS MY HI OUTPUT DOWN BY HALF?

Why would you think we are clairvoyant ? Sorry, but really not enough information...

Oil and resources might be abundant but are they in the appropriate region - the number of times I've heard this and then looking at the save under Tracker and finding less than required in Japan is surprisingly high...

I'd bet that there were facilities that didn't produce for some of the month ...

Other factors can also impinge on this ... such as expansion of facilities, LCU production, etc

edit - actually seeing as this is Feb 42 ... Did you do a lot of expansion and changes to industry in Jan ... I'd guess so ..

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 9/1/2012 2:06:17 AM >

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:27:03 AM

WO Katsuki

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do you need a certain amount of supply at each HI producing base?

- I see that Osaka has 1950 HI centers and just 7189 supply points.. probably was that way for the whole month

< Message edited by WO Katsuki -- 9/1/2012 2:28:56 AM >

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:29:45 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WO Katsuki

do you need a certain amount of supply at each HI producing base?

- I see that Osaka has 1950 HI centers and just 7189 supply points.. probably was that way for the whole month

No, supply has nothing to do with HI production. Res and Fuel are what is needed.

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:31:56 AM

TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum

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1950 HI centers would require 39000 Resources and 3900 Fuel at the base.

Oil and Supplies do not matter.

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:32:51 AM

WO Katsuki

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here is osaka

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:36:23 AM

TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum

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Ok, you've got enough Resources and Fuel in Osaka for the 1950 HI you say is there.

More than likely, the supply at the base is being pulled to other bases nearby that have a greater need for it.

What we'd really need is a pic of your industry screen with only the HI centers shown.

Edit: And if this is a PBEM game, make sure you edit your title to keep your opponent out of the thread.

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:39:18 AM

WO Katsuki

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but supply has nothing to do with HI?

what happens if the base has no supply?

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:43:10 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WO Katsuki

but supply has nothing to do with HI?

what happens if the base has no supply?

Not good for other things such as expansion of Ind. (10k at base and 1K per expansion point repaired). Not good for Combat forces.

Maybe read my Econ 101 doc http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2933397&mpage=1&key=

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:44:38 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WO Katsuki

but supply has nothing to do with HI?

what happens if the base has no supply?

This is not the HI screen we need either. Go to the Industry screen and filter please

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:44:45 AM

TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum

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Click on the "Industry Management" button on the top of the main screen with your game loaded.

Clear it of everything but HI centers. Then organize them by size, with the biggest ones at the top.

Should look like this:

Then we can see what each base has in addition to the amount of HI.

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 7:37:08 AM

inqistor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: n01487477

quote:

ORIGINAL: WO Katsuki

but supply has nothing to do with HI?

what happens if the base has no supply?

This is not the HI screen we need either. Go to the Industry screen and filter please

It is. Kinda....

Date is February 1942, and Japan produces NO engines, and 1585 planes (THREE times as much, as it should). That would explain, why there is no HI reserves. Is this a MOD?

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 2:52:31 PM

WO Katsuki

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aaah.. here is the screen

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 3:01:56 PM

btbw

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If you sort by Failed we will see problems like in Tokyo (lack of resources)

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 3:11:29 PM

TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum

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Even without sorting by failed, look at all the resources accumulating in Port Arthur and Sapporo. You have 1.3 Million and 1.5 Million Resources just sitting at these bases.

You need to establish CS Convoys to run those resources to Honshu. Keep in mind, Hokkaido does not share a "bridge" to transfer resources like the other Home Islands do, so excess here needs to be shipped out.

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 4:16:05 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WO Katsuki

February 28, 1942

apparently during the last month I have only generated 261961 heavy industry units

during January 1942, I generated 434642 heavy industry

oil and resources are abundant

WHY IS MY HI OUTPUT DOWN BY HALF?

Edit: After seeing the screenshots, it is indeed that you have not moved the resources from Port Aurthur and Hokkaido. But you still need to keep fuel up as well, as that is what runs the HI.

Simply put, you need at least 6 convoys of cargo ships running from Port Arthur and Hakodate of at least 100k in size each to move the resources and maintain a balance. Also, you do need to move fuel, not oil, for your HI to work. You will need to set up tanker/cargo fuel carrying convoys from the Dutch East Indies as soon as you capture them as well.

On oil: IIRC, Tokyo has 200 refineries that require 2000 oil per day and produce 1800 fuel and 200 supply. Consider this, Tokyo has 2730 HI and requires 5460 fuel per day to operate. Meaning that just with Tokyo's refinery you have a deficit of 3660 fuel per day, and that is just for one cities HI. You will burn through your stockpile in about 6 months. It is imperative that you move fuel as well as resource to the home islands to counter this.

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 9/1/2012 4:31:07 PM >

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 4:22:02 PM

TheLoneGunman_MatrixForum

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: WO Katsuki

February 28, 1942

apparently during the last month I have only generated 261961 heavy industry units

during January 1942, I generated 434642 heavy industry

oil and resources are abundant

WHY IS MY HI OUTPUT DOWN BY HALF?

Simple, I'm betting you ran out of fuel, oil has no effect on HI. In AE, you need fuel and resources to run your HI, with one being low (the fuel in this case) it does nothing.

Check Tokyo and Osaka and I bet you will find very low fuel levels...you will need to make massive tanker/cargo convoys from Palembang to haul fuel back to the home islands to fix this problem.

If you look at his industry screen he's got 1 million fuel at Tokyo, fuel isn't the issue. He hasn't been shipping supplies from China and Hokkaido to the other Home Islands. He needs 54k Resources at Tokyo and only has 26k or so (the red area is hard to make out for me on the image, but either way he's short).

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 4:28:43 PM

Shark7

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From: The Big Nowhere
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quote:

ORIGINAL: TheLoneGunman

quote:

ORIGINAL: Shark7

quote:

ORIGINAL: WO Katsuki

February 28, 1942

apparently during the last month I have only generated 261961 heavy industry units

during January 1942, I generated 434642 heavy industry

oil and resources are abundant

WHY IS MY HI OUTPUT DOWN BY HALF?

Simple, I'm betting you ran out of fuel, oil has no effect on HI. In AE, you need fuel and resources to run your HI, with one being low (the fuel in this case) it does nothing.

Check Tokyo and Osaka and I bet you will find very low fuel levels...you will need to make massive tanker/cargo convoys from Palembang to haul fuel back to the home islands to fix this problem.

If you look at his industry screen he's got 1 million fuel at Tokyo, fuel isn't the issue. He hasn't been shipping supplies from China and Hokkaido to the other Home Islands. He needs 54k Resources at Tokyo and only has 26k or so (the red area is hard to make out for me on the image, but either way he's short).

Yeah, I hadn't read down the rest of thread till I posted that, I have since edited my response. So that one is on me.

Still if he's not moving fuel he's got an issue, the fuel will run out. And since he said oil and resources, I took it to mean he didn't realize that you need fuel to run HI, unlike WiTP vanilla that required oil.

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 6:14:36 PM

KPAX

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So, what is the best bases to ship Res/Fuel/Oil FROM and TO?

Might you give some specifics as to what base to ship what from, and to what base for the CS,please? Always confused by this.

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/1/2012 9:07:34 PM

Shark7

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quote:

ORIGINAL: KPAX

So, what is the best bases to ship Res/Fuel/Oil FROM and TO?

Might you give some specifics as to what base to ship what from, and to what base for the CS,please? Always confused by this.

Port Arthur and Hakodate are going to be big on resource movement. Also Shikuka will give you some.

Palembang is the main fuel point, it has 900 oil and 900 refinery, I wouldn't haul oil out of Palembang, just the fuel. Of course that is unless you have a massive surplus of oil (you shouldn't, you need 10 oil per refinery, and each oil center produces 10 points of oil...it balances out).

As for other centers keep an eye on places like Brunei, Soerabaja, Singapore, etc and remember...oil, fuel and resources will move to bigger ports from smaller ones automatically. If you will notice on northern Bornea, Brunei (being the bigger port there) is where the resource and oil will move to. It is easier to protect one large convoy leaving Brunei than to try to defend several smaller ones moving from each base. It also makes it easier to base support vessels to top off fuel and weapons for those convoy ships.

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/2/2012 2:01:32 AM

Lcp Purcell

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Playing vs the AI I made the same mistakes and the home Island ran dry of resources in the late spring of 42. Seeing my HI and LI shut down threw me into panic mode. of course I had massive stockpiles in Hokkaido Hong Kong, Shanghai ect.

(Someone correct me if there is a better way) I found those hoards of slow AKLx with short legs work great on automatic cargo going from say Fusan to a port two hexes away on the home Island, and from Hakodate to Ominato (upgrading those ports is a major priority) Cargo ships from Fusan make about three trips in the time of a round trip from Port Arther.

And then through out the DEI and elsewhere are all kinds of bases that generate low levels of resources I set up auto convoy shuttles to a hub so the resources could be then moved by the bigger AKx's back to the home Island.

And a big problem is getting all the fuel and oil out of Sumatra, Palembang can never be more than a size 4 port. So I built up the two ports on the southern edge and shuttle fuel to Java, then let it move down the rail line to Soerabaja. in the north it's the Medan to George Town rout.

These task force of small tankers/ AKLx / and sub-chasers/ PB need to be small enough to dock and you need enough TF's that they are lining up waiting their turn to dock.

If you expand any HI i believe it should be around Changsha, being the hardest to bomb.

I need to find a computer guy help me with the tracker, but I check my industrial manager every 2-3 days to see if anything is failing, how big my surplus are. [Twice a Week at least: sort the industrial manager by Failure, Supply, Fuel, Oil, & Resources]

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/2/2012 2:14:34 AM

n01487477

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Lcp Purcell

Playing vs the AI I made the same mistakes and the home Island ran dry of resources in the late spring of 42. Seeing my HI and LI shut down threw me into panic mode. of course I had massive stockpiles in Hokkaido Hong Kong, Shanghai ect.

(Someone correct me if there is a better way) I found those hoards of slow AKLx with short legs work great on automatic cargo going from say Fusan to a port two hexes away on the home Island, and from Hakodate to Ominato (upgrading those ports is a major priority) Cargo ships from Fusan make about three trips in the time of a round trip from Port Arther.

And then through out the DEI and elsewhere are all kinds of bases that generate low levels of resources I set up auto convoy shuttles to a hub so the resources could be then moved by the bigger AKx's back to the home Island.

And a big problem is getting all the fuel and oil out of Sumatra, Palembang can never be more than a size 4 port. So I built up the two ports on the southern edge and shuttle fuel to Java, then let it move down the rail line to Soerabaja. in the north it's the Medan to George Town rout.

These task force of small tankers/ AKLx / and sub-chasers/ PB need to be small enough to dock and you need enough TF's that they are lining up waiting their turn to dock.

If you expand any HI i believe it should be around Changsha, being the hardest to bomb.

You should probably read my EconDoc as well sometime(in my sig.), but it sounds like you've really learned some lessons already and there are a thousand ways to skin a cat.

quote:

I need to find a computer guy help me with the tracker, but I check my industrial manager every 2-3 days to see if anything is failing, how big my surplus are. [Twice a Week at least: sort the industrial manager by Failure, Supply, Fuel, Oil, & Resources]

I'm your guy. PM me if you want me to help you set up Tracker (yes, I'm a computer geek & one of the dynamic duo tracker boys)

_____________________________

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RE: HEAVY INDUSTRY - 9/2/2012 10:58:42 PM

Lokasenna

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Damian's EconDoc will at least get you started on what you need to do to set up resource convoys from Sapporo/Hakkodate to Ominato and from Port Arthur/Keijo/Fusan to the Home Islands. I was almost completely baffled until I read it, and I still don't incorporate all of the information that's in it, but just reading it enabled me to patch together a convoy system that at least keeps my HI running.

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Post #: 24