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Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 8/31/2012 5:15:35 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		BigBabes A, B, and C are updated to rev 11.

https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/

John's comments
quote:

‘Kay, here’s the latest stuff from Mike. All the B & C Scens have the new Solomons bases. Did lots of error corrections and redid the whole Fuel/Endurance thing in Cls/Shs. Everything (mostly) is now normalized to a fuel burn rate at the game Cruise Speed, with due allowance for the Full Speed burn rate. You have the math and graphs, so you’ll see what I mean (grin). Major tweak of Island Sizes and SLs for them. Been around for a while, and most people have been playing with them, but just wanted to cast them in stone for the rev 011 changelog. ....

Regards, Matt
Post #: 1
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 8/31/2012 5:42:38 PM   
Dan Nichols


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline 		And to verify, these should only be used for new games, not games in progress?

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 2
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 8/31/2012 6:32:04 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		Matt,

Does this have the updated naval bombing devices stuff? (I mean where there are the specific load-outs for when an aircraft is ground bombing versus naval bombing, etc.)

(in reply to Dan Nichols)
Post #: 3
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 8/31/2012 7:14:49 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Matt,

Does this have the updated naval bombing devices stuff? (I mean where there are the specific load-outs for when an aircraft is ground bombing versus naval bombing, etc.)

Ermmm, I think so. I am pretty sure it has the latest thoughts on Bomb and Torp Eff and Acc. I remember doing some tests and running some games with some Alt-Device and Alt-Use things, but I'm not sure those are included in this update. It is being played with and might show up in a next update. But for now I have no notice for it, except for Eff and Acc, so maybe tomorrow, yes?

Regards, Matt

(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 4
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/3/2012 5:09:02 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

BigBabes A, B, and C are updated to rev 11.

https://sites.google.com/site/dababeswitpae/

John's comments
quote:

‘Kay, here’s the latest stuff from Mike. All the B & C Scens have the new Solomons bases. Did lots of error corrections and redid the whole Fuel/Endurance thing in Cls/Shs. Everything (mostly) is now normalized to a fuel burn rate at the game Cruise Speed, with due allowance for the Full Speed burn rate. You have the math and graphs, so you’ll see what I mean (grin). Major tweak of Island Sizes and SLs for them. Been around for a while, and most people have been playing with them, but just wanted to cast them in stone for the rev 011 changelog. ....

Regards, Matt


Gosh, Matt and JWE -

This subtle under the hood stuff - as per John's comments above - is what make the Babes realism cutting edge. Thanks again, Guys.

Mac

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(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 5
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/3/2012 5:10:43 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Matt,

Does this have the updated naval bombing devices stuff? (I mean where there are the specific load-outs for when an aircraft is ground bombing versus naval bombing, etc.)

Ermmm, I think so. I am pretty sure it has the latest thoughts on Bomb and Torp Eff and Acc. I remember doing some tests and running some games with some Alt-Device and Alt-Use things, but I'm not sure those are included in this update. It is being played with and might show up in a next update. But for now I have no notice for it, except for Eff and Acc, so maybe tomorrow, yes?

Regards, Matt


witpqs -

Am glad you asked, I wondered also.

Matt that was the right answer.... <grin>

Mac

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 6
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/4/2012 6:01:48 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Mac Linehan


quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891


quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

Matt,

Does this have the updated naval bombing devices stuff? (I mean where there are the specific load-outs for when an aircraft is ground bombing versus naval bombing, etc.)

Ermmm, I think so. I am pretty sure it has the latest thoughts on Bomb and Torp Eff and Acc. I remember doing some tests and running some games with some Alt-Device and Alt-Use things, but I'm not sure those are included in this update. It is being played with and might show up in a next update. But for now I have no notice for it, except for Eff and Acc, so maybe tomorrow, yes?

Regards, Matt


witpqs -

Am glad you asked, I wondered also.

Matt that was the right answer.... <grin>

Mac

Yes, Mac, I believe so. Expanding the alternate loadouts was thought about. But polling the groups showed there were many different thoughts about what those alternates should be. Choosing one over another would be a presumption. The choice was not to do any.

The good news is that these choices reside in the device file, which can be easily updated into ongoing games. Our system has an umpire that controls these files and the savegame so their evolution is controlled by a third party. So the choice of alternative loadouts today might not be the same as the possibilities tomorrow. Another reason for not casting Alt-Use/Alt-Device in stone.

Been using this feature for a long time and have a good idea about how it works. It is a rats nest of congruent state models.

Will help all I can and can give some examples how it works. But people who want to adapt the feature will have to do it based on their own preferences. Can show people how to do it, but not what to do.

Regards
Matt

(in reply to Mac Linehan)
Post #: 7
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/5/2012 2:13:06 AM   
RevRick


Posts: 2617
Joined: 9/16/2000
From: Thomasville, GA
Status: offline 		Okay...
I wind up having to take a couple of months away from playing and reading the boards extensively because I have to move, or I have a number of people in the hospital, a couple of funerals, etc., and several weeks/months/maybe years later I hear of something new and have absolutely no idea what is being discussed. In this cast Alt-use/Alt-device. Could some kind soul direct me to where I can discern just what in the name of pluperfect purgatory this is about. It sounds like the idea that when send a PBY out on ASW, they don't carry torpedoes, or some similar situation. Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!

_____________________________

"Action springs not from thought, but from a readiness for responsibility.” ― Dietrich Bonhoeffer

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 8
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/5/2012 2:47:55 AM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline 		Rev,  JWE had a discussion on it few months back.  you'll need to search this folder for it.  the "Alt" functions are what allow naval guns to also fire AA.  etc. 

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 9
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/5/2012 4:48:52 AM   
Dan Nichols


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Rev,  JWE had a discussion on it few months back.  you'll need to search this folder for it.  the "Alt" functions are what allow naval guns to also fire AA.  etc. 


I don't think so. It is the Sec_ attributes that allow that. The Alt fields are for alternate devices.

(in reply to PaxMondo)
Post #: 10
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/5/2012 5:05:12 AM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline 		In this present case it is about aerial bombs - different bombs (devices to the code) depending upon the target type. If ground bombing, one thing. If naval bombing, another thing.

The point is that bombing effects on land were seen to be too great. So they were toned down. Then bombing effect against ships were seen as too little. Even more specifically, there were seen to be too many bomb hits against ships but too little damage from each bomb.

From what Matt is saying there is some disagreement over how things should be tuned, but that's the basic issue as I recall it.

_____________________________

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(in reply to Dan Nichols)
Post #: 11
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/6/2012 12:55:56 AM   
treespider


Posts: 9796
Joined: 1/30/2005
From: Edgewater, MD
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RevRick

Okay...
I wind up having to take a couple of months away from playing and reading the boards extensively because I have to move, or I have a number of people in the hospital, a couple of funerals, etc., and several weeks/months/maybe years later I hear of something new and have absolutely no idea what is being discussed. In this cast Alt-use/Alt-device. Could some kind soul direct me to where I can discern just what in the name of pluperfect purgatory this is about. It sounds like the idea that when send a PBY out on ASW, they don't carry torpedoes, or some similar situation. Mayday! Mayday! Mayday!



You can specify a bomb device to be used for a specific kind of attack by setting the altUse value...if it is not that kind of attack, code will look to the value set for altDevice and use the device specified here.

This is fraught with all sorts of danger...but with a fair amount of work certain modders may be able to bake a beautiful cake....just hope the cake doesn't collapse when it is taken out of the oven.



< Message edited by treespider -- 9/6/2012 12:56:27 AM >

_____________________________

Here's a link to:
Treespider's Grand Campaign of DBB

"It is not the critic who counts, .... The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena..." T. Roosevelt, Paris, 1910

(in reply to RevRick)
Post #: 12
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/7/2012 10:57:42 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		*Great work!* on the one side - *Sigh!* on the other > necessitates another transfer of personal mod changes to a new DBB version (or vice versa, depends on what is less work).

Any chance to get a detailed changelog?

And is there a WIF style panel for the new Solomons area?

_____________________________

AE Mod "Bottlenecks" UPDATED 01/2022

(in reply to treespider)
Post #: 13
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/7/2012 11:42:29 AM   
GreyJoy


Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline 		Sorry to hyjack...but i have a little question...

A game started under the latest DaIronBabes scenario (scen 30), so started like 3/4 months ago, does have these wonderfull changes concerning bombloads?

Thanks in advance

gj

(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 14
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/7/2012 12:25:35 PM   
oldman45


Posts: 2320
Joined: 5/1/2005
From: Jacksonville Fl
Status: offline 		Concerning the devices, any chance that air dropped depth charges could be looked at? Another item I have always hoped to see again was the para-frag. Any chance that could be put looked at also?

Thanks to all of those involved in keeping the Babes modes alive and kicking!

_____________________________


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 15
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/8/2012 4:47:17 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

*Great work!* on the one side - *Sigh!* on the other > necessitates another transfer of personal mod changes to a new DBB version (or vice versa, depends on what is less work).

Any chance to get a detailed changelog?

And is there a WIF style panel for the new Solomons area?


LST -

I completely understand your point of view - but v11 is progress. Last weekend I fired up 28Cv11 and began to edit and enter all my personal preferences and changes. This new start was a good thing, as I know and understand more now, and have found several errors.

There was a time when I felt a vague sense of guilt about modding my own game - changing what was already there; that is long gone. I am the only one who will be playing my modded game (H2H) - and loving every minute of it. How fortunate we are to play a game that had not only a user friendly editor, but absolutely awesome support from the dedicated, highly experienced players who comprise the Babes and RA mod teams.

And -

When the Matt - ster speaks, cricket Mac listens!

Matt - you are the Man!

Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 9/8/2012 4:48:18 PM >

_____________________________

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Post #: 16
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/8/2012 6:18:53 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Sorry to hyjack...but i have a little question...

A game started under the latest DaIronBabes scenario (scen 30), so started like 3/4 months ago, does have these wonderfull changes concerning bombloads?

Thanks in advance

gj

No hyjack, gj. No. The alternative bomb loadouts are just too subjective to make one man's pick the standard for the everybody, so we are sticking to Stock. But are putting a doc together so people can modify this themselves without stepping on their puds doing it. Like "do it yourself, do it for less".
quote:

ORIGINAL: oldman45

Concerning the devices, any chance that air dropped depth charges could be looked at? Another item I have always hoped to see again was the para-frag. Any chance that could be put looked at also?

Thanks to all of those involved in keeping the Babes modes alive and kicking!

No chance at all. Sorry. That's code stuff and we simply cannot go there. But thanks for your thanks. We'll keep plugging.

Regards. Matt

_____________________________


(in reply to GreyJoy)
Post #: 17
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/8/2012 6:48:35 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

*Great work!* on the one side - *Sigh!* on the other > necessitates another transfer of personal mod changes to a new DBB version (or vice versa, depends on what is less work).

Any chance to get a detailed changelog?

And is there a WIF style panel for the new Solomons area?

I knew this was going to happen. I said so and I said so. Groin! There's only a few main areas.

There's the locations file that has the new base layout for Buin/Shortlads. This should not be a problem because the new Buin is in the old Shortland slot so everything, including the AI, will work with units as defined. The new Shortlands base is an appendage, but if you play IJ, it's a naval staging point. Not to worry, it works ok in the old Solomons context.

There's the device file, that updates nicely. It institutionalizes the bomb/torp acc/eff/pen stuff that most people have been using for quite a while and seems to work. It updates fine, but is you have device file slot changes then that could be a problem.

The class file has lots of updates for the fuel and endurance parameters. John tried to keep fuel constant and tweak endurance, but there were a few places where he couldn't do it. There are several ships that will show with more fuel than their class says they should have. If you can live with that, then you are ok.

John says send him your scenario and he will 'tweak' it.

<Send me a pm and I will see it gets to the right place.>
Best I can do. Matt

< Message edited by US87891 -- 9/9/2012 4:28:19 PM >

_____________________________


(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 18
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/8/2012 6:52:57 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget
And is there a WIF style panel for the new Solomons area?

Working on it. Will post it and let you know.

Matt

_____________________________


(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 19
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/8/2012 7:25:13 PM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline

_____________________________

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(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 20
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/8/2012 9:29:17 PM   
PaxMondo


Posts: 9750
Joined: 6/6/2008
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols


quote:

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

Rev,  JWE had a discussion on it few months back.  you'll need to search this folder for it.  the "Alt" functions are what allow naval guns to also fire AA.  etc. 


I don't think so. It is the Sec_ attributes that allow that. The Alt fields are for alternate devices.

Oops, my bad. You are exactly correct. Thanks for catching it.

_____________________________

Pax

(in reply to Dan Nichols)
Post #: 21
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/8/2012 9:31:11 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

*Great work!* on the one side - *Sigh!* on the other > necessitates another transfer of personal mod changes to a new DBB version (or vice versa, depends on what is less work).

Any chance to get a detailed changelog?

And is there a WIF style panel for the new Solomons area?

I knew this was going to happen. I said so and I said so. Groin! There's only a few main areas.

There's the locations file that has the new base layout for Buin/Shortlads. This should not be a problem because the new Buin is in the old Shortland slot so everything, including the AI, will work with units as defined. The new Shortlands base is an appendage, but if you play IJ, it's a naval staging point. Not to worry, it works ok in the old Solomons context.

There's the device file, that updates nicely. It institutionalizes the bomb/torp acc/eff/pen stuff that most people have been using for quite a while and seems to work. It updates fine, but is you have device file slot changes then that could be a problem.

The class file has lots of updates for the fuel and endurance parameters. John tried to keep fuel constant and tweak endurance, but there were a few places where he couldn't do it. There are several ships that will show with more fuel than their class says they should have. If you can live with that, then you are ok.

John says send him your scenario and he will 'tweak' it. jw.eldredge@mediacombb.net.

Best I can do. Matt


Not good to post his email here, sorry if I come off like a know it all.

Buck

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 22
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/9/2012 4:26:03 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline 		Sorry. My bad. Didn't realize he was that much of a leper. I edited it out of my post. Would you please edit it out of your response? Thanks. I promise I won't do it again.

LargeSlowTarget

HeWhoIsNotToBeMentioned fixed up the wif art panels with the new Solomons. It's posted up on the Babes site.

- - If you are the first one in the canoe,
- - I Love You too.

Matt

_____________________________


(in reply to Buck Beach)
Post #: 23
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/9/2012 5:29:22 PM   
Dan Nichols


Posts: 863
Joined: 8/30/2011
Status: offline 		It's not that Matt, but some kinds of search bots can read email addresses in posts and then spam them. It is good to not put a complete email address in a post. I use something like dan(dot)nichols(dot)55(at)gmail(dot)com instead. JWE is not a leper, he just let one or more posters get to him and he posted the wrong things. Stuff happens.

< Message edited by Dan Nichols -- 9/9/2012 5:30:27 PM >

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 24
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/9/2012 6:36:33 PM   
Buck Beach

 

Posts: 1973
Joined: 6/25/2000
From: Upland,CA,USA
Status: offline 		He's not a leper in my eyes at all. Its just what Dan said better than myself.

Buck

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 25
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/9/2012 7:38:36 PM   
Mac Linehan

 

Posts: 1484
Joined: 12/19/2004
From: Denver Colorado
Status: offline 		Re JWE -

May I respectfully re-emphasize that I consider JWE, Terminus and the Babes Team to be slightly lower than the Disciples of Christ - when it comes to all things Naval.

And:

He is a fellow Gun bunny!

Sea Gun Bunny Mac

< Message edited by Mac Linehan -- 9/10/2012 1:51:47 AM >

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Post #: 26
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/11/2012 10:46:33 AM   
pmattiasn

 

Posts: 86
Joined: 12/7/2007
From: Stockholm
Status: offline 		Hi, just started the "IronBabes B" (scen #30) and noted a minor issue with the Dutch OOB, specifically LCU #5911 (1/2nd AvnSupAfd). When I try to "rebuild unit" of which this was a component it turned into something attached to the Soviet Far East Cmd (S) and then dispersed. It turns up on the units destroyed list and can be bought back but still under far east HQ.

Otherwise I'm just rediscovering the babes scenarios that I used to love on the old WITP - great work guys and great fun for the rest of us!

Cheers,
Mattias

PS. Not sure if this is the right thread for this but just wanted to flag it. No big deal on my part!

< Message edited by PMN -- 9/11/2012 10:53:16 AM >

(in reply to US87891)
Post #: 27
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/11/2012 11:43:56 AM   
LargeSlowTarget


Posts: 4443
Joined: 9/23/2000
From: Hessen, Germany - now living in France
Status: offline 		If it is same as in BabesC, then it is a data glitch - open the editor and change "Prim Unit" (= parent) of LCU #5911, 5912 and 5913 to 5910 (2nd Avn Sup Groep) and it should be fine.

< Message edited by LargeSlowTarget -- 9/11/2012 11:44:53 AM >

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(in reply to pmattiasn)
Post #: 28
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/11/2012 3:30:34 PM   
witpqs


Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

If it is same as in BabesC, then it is a data glitch - open the editor and change "Prim Unit" (= parent) of LCU #5911, 5912 and 5913 to 5910 (2nd Avn Sup Groep) and it should be fine.

Matt would have to confirm, but that fix is probably present in the Babes release just made.

_____________________________

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(in reply to LargeSlowTarget)
Post #: 29
RE: Updated BigBabes Scenarios - 9/11/2012 3:53:18 PM   
US87891

 

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

quote:

ORIGINAL: LargeSlowTarget

If it is same as in BabesC, then it is a data glitch - open the editor and change "Prim Unit" (= parent) of LCU #5911, 5912 and 5913 to 5910 (2nd Avn Sup Groep) and it should be fine.

Matt would have to confirm, but that fix is probably present in the Babes release just made.

Yes. It is ok in Babes Big and Lite. Drw61 made the Iron Babes original port from Hakku Ichiru. There could be a few issues like this that were missed in the porting. Have not updated Iron babes yet but will keep an eye out for these things when it happens. Thank everybody for pointing this out.

Matt

_____________________________


(in reply to witpqs)
Post #: 30
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