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Abusing stupid AI...selling technology - 9/30/2012 6:51:03 PM   
Harrs


Posts: 64
Joined: 8/15/2012
Status: offline 		In my current game my cashflow is constantly negative..

But its no problem because I can sell every of my research for 200.000+ each.

I spend all my money for research stations colony ships and military ships.. I have -140.000 cashflow..
I start with a harsh start world. All alien races have excellent home worlds. I just redesign the medium starbase to 1 energy lab 1 weapon lab and 12 high tech labs.. The retrofit costs me 3000.. Than I have the technology for the rusan wonder very fast..

But with the rusan wonder (100% high tech bonus) I always have the newest high tech research..
And then I sell every new technology to every alien race for 200.000+bugs.. So Now I have 2.4million..

For example there is a race near me.. They don’t like me
And they give me 400.000 bugs for Enhanced storage technology (all his money)?? With this money he could build 40 small cruisers...
Now they don’t have any money to build military. So I can expand aggressively. And is this technology really 400.000 bugs worth? I doubt it..

The AI is too stupid. Please fix this in the next version. So they will not buy technology from you if they don’t like you.
And that they will not spend millions on technology..
I never have problems with money with this trick.. Because I sell the technology to 7 or 8 races.. So I can even spend every time money for crash research too..
And if they declare war.. I build 60 ships at once.. I have money they don’t..

It could be easily fixed with a small mathematical formulation.. If they don’t like you (the relationship is -60) they will only give you 1/10th of the cost..
And they will only give the real price in mutual defense.


Post #: 1
RE: Abusing stupid AI...selling technology - 9/30/2012 7:16:59 PM   
ASHBERY76


Posts: 2136
Joined: 10/10/2001
From: England
Status: offline 		I would like to see research treaties totally replace tech trading.Civ5 got that right.

The A.I does not understand the importance of different techs types and in most 4X games usually gets screwed..



< Message edited by ASHBERY76 -- 9/30/2012 7:23:24 PM >

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(in reply to Harrs)
Post #: 2
RE: Abusing stupid AI...selling technology - 9/30/2012 7:57:30 PM   
ehsumrell1


Posts: 2529
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Harrs

For example there is a race near me.. They don’t like me
And they give me 400.000 bugs for Enhanced storage technology (all his money)?? With this money he could build 40 small cruisers...
Now they don’t have any money to build military. So I can expand aggressively. And is this technology really 400.000 bugs worth? I doubt it..

The AI is too stupid. Please fix this in the next version. So they will not buy technology from you if they don’t like you.
And that they will not spend millions on technology..

Hello Harrs, and thanks for your opinions!

One of the things Elliot and Erik have mentioned working on is improving the Diplomacy module.
In Legends, one of the updates addressed what I quoted from your post above. In that update,
AI empires were given a higher minimum threshold of cash that is not available for deals
(i.e. they will use less portion of their cash for making deals), so even though it may seem that they are 'broke', they are not.
But I do agree that the diplomacy of the game as it stands is exploitable, and rest assured that when Elliot does decide
the correct way to handle it from his perspective, it should greatly improve the AI. I'm also
certain that he is taking into account the many ideas and opinions stated in these forums
as well. Trust me, he listens!

< Message edited by ehsumrell1 -- 9/30/2012 8:01:42 PM >

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Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to Harrs)
Post #: 3
RE: Abusing stupid AI...selling technology - 9/30/2012 9:42:45 PM   
WiZz

 

Posts: 372
Joined: 9/28/2011
From: Ukraine
Status: offline 		Actually I'm against research treaty instead of simple tech trading. In Civ5 these agreements look too artificial. But I agree if devs implement this option as additional.
The most realistic way of exchange techs represented in Sword of the stars 1. First you must learn the language for some level. Than you can begin special project. Only after that technology appears in your tech tree and you can learn it normally.
Unfortunately, implementing this thing in DW is impossible due to the nature of tech research in SOTS.

(in reply to ehsumrell1)
Post #: 4
RE: Abusing stupid AI...selling technology - 9/30/2012 10:19:15 PM   
Harrs


Posts: 64
Joined: 8/15/2012
Status: offline 		Or maybe it should only be possible to sell and trade blueprints..
And with this blueprints you get like 80% of the technology.. The rest must be self done..
I think Heart of Iron managed it like this..

I mean it is more realistic. Your own scientist have to understand the technology first before they can rebuild it.. And they need a little bit time for it.. Its not instantly after reading it..

And then the diplomacy have to been changed.. You dont give money to someone you dont like.. Or only for really bad deals for the enemy.. 1/10th of the original price..

(in reply to WiZz)
Post #: 5
RE: Abusing stupid AI...selling technology - 10/2/2012 5:18:23 AM   
MartialDoctor


Posts: 388
Joined: 3/7/2011
Status: offline 		Yeah, you pointed out a total exploit due to the current system. Races will give you top dollar no matter what. Even for technologies that aren't that worthwhile.

I know in games like GalCiv2, it would be difficult to get the AI to trade with you. And they would always give you really bad deals (at higher skill levels at least) and wouldn't trade certain technologies. I don't think that's the best method but it's easier to implement and is a better system than the one that DW currently has.

I actually rarely trade and manually edit amounts when I trade technology as the techs are worth far more than they should be (I edit the trade to about a 4th of their current cost). As you put it yourself, it's much better just to use your money towards your military rather than buying of technology. Unless the cost to buy and sell technology gets put down to a reasonable level, the only thing it will be there for is exploit.

(in reply to Harrs)
Post #: 6
RE: Abusing stupid AI...selling technology - 10/2/2012 5:06:25 PM   
adecoy95


Posts: 420
Joined: 3/26/2010
Status: offline 		it is smart about tech trading in some ways, for example it is reluctant to sell high level weapons technology. but its still possible to muscle it down by drowning it in other techs if you have them to spare.


(in reply to MartialDoctor)
Post #: 7
RE: Abusing stupid AI...selling technology - 10/5/2012 5:11:09 AM   
vince0018


Posts: 46
Joined: 8/25/2011
From: Canada
Status: offline 		As I've been playing DW the past few days, I noticed this problem with trading tech too. It just seems to throw the balance of the game off.

It's far too easy just to always trade tech with your allies, over and over every time one of you researches something.
And I like to play with research at the slowest speed, so being able to instantly gain technology hits me right in the heart .

I had the exact same issue with GalCiv II also, but that game had the option to disable tech trading entirely, when creating a new game, which I happily did.
I would love this option on Distant Worlds as well.

Speaking of changing how the whole system works, I too like the Civ V way better.
And when you think about it, it actually is pretty realistic. Both parties sign a research agreement and pay a certain amount of money, then both parties gain
a small percentage of research boost. It makes sense since both of you are 'putting your heads together' to work on tech.

You eliminate the problem of instant tech, and can have these tech treaties to strengthen your alliance.
The game already has various ways to boost your research speed anyways, and this way would also improve your ally relationships.

(in reply to adecoy95)
Post #: 8
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