DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW

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DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 9/30/2012 11:32:50 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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Hi guys,

QBall is welcome here

Me an Qball are playin a DBB pbem game.
It's woderfull. I can tell you.

However, playin japan in june 1942 i'm experiencing unexpected problems with the japanese asw. Qball's subs, surely also for his merits, are raging among my waves, sinking transports without much problems. I've done everything i could so far: changing routes, using heavy escorts ( DDs, SCs, PBs, whatever...) nd placing several air ASW air groups with pilots with 70 in asw skill... But i never sink them. Not even damage them... QBall confirmed he only lost 4 subs so far, and only 1 due to DC hits...
I'm not complaining, mind you, this is very realistic!
However due to the fact that naval asw has been severly changed in DBB i was wondering if some other players with more experience with this mod could give me a couple of advices. Is there anything i could to improve my results? Or should i simply abbandon any expectation?

WhAt will happen to my fleets when the allied subs will get radars and more reliable torps?...i'm already sweating....

Thanks in advance

Gj

Post #: 1

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 9/30/2012 11:41:31 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

Just to add....
I'm particularly concerned with my air asw results... rader was able to sink dozens of my allied subs in shallow waters simply using his helens.... I, for example, have 27 helens operating at Miri... 70 asw skill and aggressive leader..l well, Qball for 2 months has placed several subs around miri and brunei, in shallow waters... I've probably seen only a couple of hit messages...and the subs never moved back, so i guess the damage wasn't heavy... What am i doing wrong here?

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 2

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 9/30/2012 11:58:26 PM

n01487477

Posts: 4779
Joined: 2/21/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Hi guys,

QBall is welcome here

Me an Qball are playin a DBB pbem game.
It's woderfull. I can tell you.

However, playin japan in june 1942 i'm experiencing unexpected problems with the japanese asw. Qball's subs, surely also for his merits, are raging among my waves, sinking transports without much problems. I've done everything i could so far: changing routes, using heavy escorts ( DDs, SCs, PBs, whatever...) nd placing several air ASW air groups with pilots with 70 in asw skill... But i never sink them. Not even damage them... QBall confirmed he only lost 4 subs so far, and only 1 due to DC hits...
I'm not complaining, mind you, this is very realistic!
However due to the fact that naval asw has been severly changed in DBB i was wondering if some other players with more experience with this mod could give me a couple of advices. Is there anything i could to improve my results? Or should i simply abbandon any expectation?

WhAt will happen to my fleets when the allied subs will get radars and more reliable torps?...i'm already sweating....

Thanks in advance

Gj

I'm playing the Scen1 GC with the ASW fixes made available in DaBabes from JWE. Both Floyd and I are finding much less ability to conduct ASW compared to the expectations of previous campaigns. I guess the expectations of old have to be thrown out and the new model understood.

While Floyd and I are only in early March - I'm throwing a large majority of PB's, DD's and air assets.
Anyway - I'm starting to find that I can keep the SS's from attacking.

Large training program for ASW and Search.
Large number of air units covering my main routes.
Resizing air groups via CS to max.
Routing TF's into shallow waters. (would love to move to beta that has coastal routing)
PB's and DD's in the shallows and approaches to Home Is.
Good leaders.
Conversions of AK -> PB.
Eventually Helen,B5N2,Jake and other radar equipped planes.

Good luck mate.
edit - forgot you've turned tables and playing the green machine...do the opposite

< Message edited by n01487477 -- 9/30/2012 11:59:24 PM >

_____________________________

-Damian-
EconDoc
TrackerAE
Tutes&Java

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 3

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 10/1/2012 12:16:19 AM

obvert

Posts: 14050
Joined: 1/17/2011
From: PDX (and now) London, UK
Status: offline

What are your settings for those Helens, GJ? I've played a lot with my air ASW and it's not near as good as what you described against rader. And having read his AAR I'm using close to his techniques. I'm playing stock Scen 1, as well.

I wonder if in a patch back a ways the change in low naval capability by 2E planes is limiting the bomb loads of the IJAAF 2E ASW. My Kates still seem very good, and get many more hits than the 2Es even with lower skill ratings.

Anyone have thoughts on altitude and 2E ASW?

_____________________________

"Success is the ability to go from one failure to another with no loss of enthusiasm." - Winston Churchill

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Post #: 4

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 10/1/2012 12:26:27 AM

DOCUP

Posts: 3073
Joined: 7/7/2010
Status: offline

GJ: I am playing Stock Scen 1. Ask Koniu what he is doing with his ASW groups. He has done pretty well with his air ASW. Not sinking alot but he is putting bombs on target.

I do not know how my air ASW is really doing. I get a lot of sub reported hits. Most of mine are from 2E flying low 3k or lower. Skills are also 60s and above. But I am the allies.

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 5

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 10/1/2012 4:07:02 AM

Q-Ball

Posts: 7336
Joined: 6/25/2002
From: Chicago, Illinois
Status: offline

Without giving too much away, I think the main answer is probably more air search. My subs are much less effective when they are spotted, and have to operate further and further away from main bases in order to stay hidden. I think Greyjoy is already doing this, because I have seen more aircraft over my subs lately......

It doesn't kill them, but they can't get anything done either.

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Post #: 6

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 10/1/2012 1:41:04 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: obvert

What are your settings for those Helens, GJ? I've played a lot with my air ASW and it's not near as good as what you described against rader. And having read his AAR I'm using close to his techniques. I'm playing stock Scen 1, as well.

I wonder if in a patch back a ways the change in low naval capability by 2E planes is limiting the bomb loads of the IJAAF 2E ASW. My Kates still seem very good, and get many more hits than the 2Es even with lower skill ratings.

Anyone have thoughts on altitude and 2E ASW?

My air ASW is between 1000 and 2000 ft. And Rader explained me how he did... he simply put his Helens at 70 ASW, 20 train and 10 rest...and they kept on attacking, damaging and sinking my subs.
I don't know, probably i'm not investing enough planes in search roles... but i'm doing as best as i can. Bombers are simply needed everywhere and it's not always possible to cover all the routes...especially because Japan lacks the base forces to support all these backwaters efforts (if you devote base forces to be placed at Formosa, for example, you won't have nearly not enough for front line duties...).
Oh well, i guess i'll live with these changements (that, btw, i like the most!) and try to optimize my ASW efforts... i was just wondering what the other people playing DBB scenarios were doing...

Thanks guys! and another big thank to Damian! Tracker is AWESOME!!!!

(in reply to obvert)

Post #: 7

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 10/1/2012 3:25:11 PM

ny59giants

Posts: 9869
Joined: 1/10/2005
Status: offline

Like Radar, I set my Helen's at 1k or 2k ASW with 50 to 60% ASW, 20% train, and 20% rest. I use my re-sized Jakes to 2k Naval and ASW search to find the subs (in late 43 I have the better ranged Norm as my shore based FPs). Then, I set my Helens and bring in two large air groups (most of mine for ASW with Helens are 27 planes) and set to a specific arc. I have multiple ASW TF with three ships (don't have enough for 4 ship TF). I haven't done well in actual sinks, but damage enough subs to send them back to port. I hope you are using the Beta Patch so you can route your Transport and Cargo TFs in shallow ocean hexes to help your ASW efforts (Coastal Routing).

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Post #: 8

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 10/1/2012 6:35:37 PM

US87891

Posts: 422
Joined: 1/2/2011
Status: offline

As far as Naval ASW goes, the only difference between Babes and Stock is how deep certain DCs go and how deep certain subs go. The tweak happens during the �So-and-so dives deep� part of the algorithm.

Early Jap DCs go boom shallow. Early Allied subs dive shallow. As the war goes on, things go progressively deeper. Even with the depth difference, there is always a �chance� that a DC will �hit�. What you must do is upgrade your ASW ships to versions that have the Type-95 Mod-2 DCs as soon as possible. And then upgrade them to versions with the Type-3 DC.

This is a multi-year game, so taking a week to dial up your ASW assets has no impact except on your expectations. I would find some ships that get the Type-95, Mod-2 early and use them as H-K groups.

Air and other stuff, is exactly like it is in stock, so I wouldn�t worry about it. You can do all the things that other people tell you. But get smart with your DC weapons is my thought.

Regadrs, Matt

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Post #: 9

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 10/1/2012 8:35:18 PM

wadail

Posts: 55
Joined: 8/17/2012
Status: offline

Does setting an ASW task force to computer-controlled with a max reaction of 6 help at all? If strung out along convoy routes?

I don't seem to get much traction with human controlled ones, and continually tweaking patrol zones is a pain.. yes, I should probably do it....

(in reply to US87891)

Post #: 10

RE: DAbigBabes : seeking suggestions for ASW - 10/1/2012 10:57:37 PM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: US87891

As far as Naval ASW goes, the only difference between Babes and Stock is how deep certain DCs go and how deep certain subs go. The tweak happens during the �So-and-so dives deep� part of the algorithm.

Early Jap DCs go boom shallow. Early Allied subs dive shallow. As the war goes on, things go progressively deeper. Even with the depth difference, there is always a �chance� that a DC will �hit�. What you must do is upgrade your ASW ships to versions that have the Type-95 Mod-2 DCs as soon as possible. And then upgrade them to versions with the Type-3 DC.

This is a multi-year game, so taking a week to dial up your ASW assets has no impact except on your expectations. I would find some ships that get the Type-95, Mod-2 early and use them as H-K groups.

Air and other stuff, is exactly like it is in stock, so I wouldn�t worry about it. You can do all the things that other people tell you. But get smart with your DC weapons is my thought.

Regadrs, Matt

Thanks guys. Very usefull tips and infos!

I'm trying tp upgrade my escorts as much as i can....unfortunately they are always needed and it's not easy to decide when to send them back

I'll do my best!

Thanks a lot!

Gj

(in reply to US87891)

Post #: 11