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All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition >> The War Room >> Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no tk208 plz)

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Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no tk208... - 9/21/2012 7:21:39 PM

aphrochine

Posts: 189
Joined: 3/24/2008
From: Phoenix, AZ
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**********************************************
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************************smokescreen***********
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So it's late 1943 in my PBEM game against tk208. He pushed hard from Yenan against Sian after my expedition overextended, was defeated and was able to meet with reinforcements to hold the line NE of Sian

Note, this pic is a bit old. I now own all 6 hexsides.

He did not cover his flanks and allowed me to completely envelop his 1st IJN Army (roughly 2400 AV). I'm holding the hex with 1900 AV and have another 2000 AV scattered around the hex to defend against the coming relief forces (including a Guards Tank Division, also not included in this pic).

I have only deliberate attacked once (with far more AV), and have surrounded the army now for 5-6 weeks with routine bombardment. This is quickly draining my northern supplies. With the reinforcement coming, I cannot bring in much more to attack down the Hex. He appears to be getting some supply. LRCAP (1 USAAF FG operating out of Sian) has not indicated any transport interception.

Thoughts on my next steps?? Will the army ever simply starve to death??

< Message edited by aphrochine -- 9/21/2012 7:25:02 PM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/21/2012 7:28:48 PM

zuluhour

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2 Cent

The true nature of his supplies FOW however if he is close to exausted his units will probably have something like 2% supply and will remain so for..... So no surrender. However his multiplier against AV will be severly reduced.

Unit Supply

a unit with 100% supply has its unadjusted assault value multiplied by 1
a unit with 75% supply is multiplied by 0.8
a unit with 50% supply is multiplied by 0.6
a unit with 25% supply is multiplied by 0.4
a unit with zero supply is multiplied by 0.25

please note: this information (multiplers) is from Alfred, the effect of being completly out of supply and being able to hold for an extended period of time is my own assement based on having Chinese units out of supply for over a year. Two hexes from Changsha, if my opponent only knew!

< Message edited by zuluhour -- 9/21/2012 7:35:00 PM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/21/2012 8:34:48 PM

crsutton

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Just start grinding. You might lose more than him at first but he will eventually break. You have crappy artillery but bombardment will force him to use supply but at a slower rate. Note that he does have one hexside controlled so a trickle of supply might reach him through there, but not enough.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/22/2012 6:42:56 AM

jmalter

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if you've got all 6 hexsides, you're in the driver's seat - but your own supply is also v. limited.

don't attack w/ limited supply! you might have to curtail all other China ops (building, movement, replacement, air) to allow supply to accrue to your forces NE of Sian. if you're bombing him heavily from Sian, you're using supply that might've oozed out to your field forces.

look at all of China, you prob'ly only have enough supply to do 1-1/2 of the 6 things you'd like to do. go thru the whole continent & decide on draconian priortization measures.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/22/2012 2:35:38 PM

castor troy

Posts: 14330
Joined: 8/23/2004
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quote:

ORIGINAL: aphrochine

**********************************************
**********************************************
************************smokescreen***********
**********************************************
**********************************************
**********************************************

So it's late 1943 in my PBEM game against tk208. He pushed hard from Yenan against Sian after my expedition overextended, was defeated and was able to meet with reinforcements to hold the line NE of Sian

Note, this pic is a bit old. I now own all 6 hexsides.

He did not cover his flanks and allowed me to completely envelop his 1st IJN Army (roughly 2400 AV). I'm holding the hex with 1900 AV and have another 2000 AV scattered around the hex to defend against the coming relief forces (including a Guards Tank Division, also not included in this pic).

I have only deliberate attacked once (with far more AV), and have surrounded the army now for 5-6 weeks with routine bombardment. This is quickly draining my northern supplies. With the reinforcement coming, I cannot bring in much more to attack down the Hex. He appears to be getting some supply. LRCAP (1 USAAF FG operating out of Sian) has not indicated any transport interception.

Thoughts on my next steps?? Will the army ever simply starve to death??

it�s not fully cut off, supply probably still flow into the hex through the North Western hex side, where he could also just walk out if he wanted to. As he doesn't seem to be wanting this, I guess he is fully supplied.

< Message edited by castor troy -- 9/22/2012 2:36:24 PM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/22/2012 4:20:43 PM

aphrochine

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I do own all hexsides (as mentioned, the pic is a bit dated).

My forces have been shelling him daily for a while, trying to help him use up his supply in the counter shelling. Only 4 of my units are marginally under supplied, ~2-3% low. So I'll stop my shelling and fill up my supply levels. Meanwhile, the hex is in range of RAF 4Es that I can station at Ledo. The hex is currently 1950 to 2390 in AV, and I have another 750 AV coming in.

Given there is such a high chance of him being very low on supply, should I try to peel off troops and acheive a 2-1 ratio before I attack?? Or should I just go with soon to be 2600 and let the supply modifiers carry me through??

Note: I could probably get up to 4000 AV in the hex, but with the Guards Tank Division and other LCUs marching to break through to the IJA 1st Army...I need substantial force to block to the relief attempt.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/22/2012 10:48:32 PM

BBfanboy

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Low supply may affect combat immediately but it takes much longer to actually disable and then destroy squads. I wanted to see what happened with low supply so in my sandbox game [playing both sides] I sent some of the Japanese and Thai units into the mountains and jungles between N Thailand and W China [Paoshan, Tsuyung]. I marched them back and forth, with no combat and little air attack on them. It took a couple of months to use up supply in most units [they were likely getting tiny amounts daily].
The kicker is that it took 2-3 months more with NO SUPPLY for the units to start getting disablements over 50%, and only at that level did losses due to starvation/disease occur. Degradation happened faster in jungle terrain than in mountain - some units recovered disabled squads when they passed from jungle to mountain hexes, even though supply was at zero for months [trickle of supply used daily?]. I also noted that extremely experienced units like the Imperial Guard and the Thai units fared better than less experienced units - jungle training and knowing how to live off the land perhaps?

Conclusion: - unless there is active combat of some kind to inflict disablements and use supply, it takes a looooong time to starve them out.

Your encirclement will help deny him the trickle of supply that helped my IJA sandbox units. Good luck [and oriental patience]!

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/24/2012 4:24:05 AM

artuitus_slith

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try staggered attacks. use 1/4-1/3 of your units in each attack, placing them in reserve after each attack. This should help wear down his units, and allow yours a few days to recover between attacks. Of course if your attacks are too costly you may have to give it up.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/24/2012 11:30:51 AM

GreyJoy

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Be patient. It takes several months before a sorrounded unit goes out of supply. Bombard them for a couple of months and then try a deliberate attack. You will lose, but you'll recover, they won't. Bombard them for few more months and repeat the process back again

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/24/2012 11:52:31 AM

castor troy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Be patient. It takes several months before a sorrounded unit goes out of supply. Bombard them for a couple of months and then try a deliberate attack. You will lose, but you'll recover, they won't. Bombard them for few more months and repeat the process back again

it doesn't take months until a ground unit runs out of supply if it is cut off

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/24/2012 6:16:58 PM

aphrochine

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Be patient. It takes several months before a sorrounded unit goes out of supply. Bombard them for a couple of months and then try a deliberate attack. You will lose, but you'll recover, they won't. Bombard them for few more months and repeat the process back again

it doesn't take months until a ground unit runs out of supply if it is cut off

I certainly hope not.

I'll try to get an updated pic posted this evening.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/25/2012 2:43:02 AM

BBfanboy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Be patient. It takes several months before a sorrounded unit goes out of supply. Bombard them for a couple of months and then try a deliberate attack. You will lose, but you'll recover, they won't. Bombard them for few more months and repeat the process back again

it doesn't take months until a ground unit runs out of supply if it is cut off

CT, the lengthy time I cited was sans combat - just keeping the unit out of touch with roads or bases. I know they will run out much quicker if you attack or bombard them, but aphrochine is concerned about the supply available to initiate an attack on his side. Does your experience with this include starving surrounded enemies without attacking?
I am interested because the units I monitored were not completely cut off and may have receiived a trickle of supply [used up each day so I could not see how much, if any].

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/25/2012 5:59:45 PM

aphrochine

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I launched my first Deliberate attack. I'm not at my home computer, so I'll post the results with an updated screen. Not as good as I had hoped. I guess now back to bombardment and watch to see if the IJA's AV recovers.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/26/2012 2:46:34 AM

aphrochine

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Here is an updated screen.

Well, that was a bit rough...

Ground combat at 85,39 (near Sian)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 71943 troops, 505 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2754

Defending force 83266 troops, 825 guns, 456 vehicles, Assault Value = 2389

Allied adjusted assault: 756

Japanese adjusted defense: 2285

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
1132 casualties reported
Squads: 17 destroyed, 107 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 59 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 19 disabled
Vehicles lost 31 (1 destroyed, 30 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
8963 casualties reported
Squads: 43 destroyed, 1024 disabled
Non Combat: 7 destroyed, 122 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 54 disabled
Guns lost 31 (4 destroyed, 27 disabled)

Assaulting units:
29th Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
1st New Chinese Corps
91st Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
27th Chinese Corps
8th Prov Chinese Corps
13th Chinese Corps
1st Construction Regiment
3rd Heavy Mortar Regiment

Defending units:
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
60th Infantry Brigade
36th Division
24th Division
15th Division
116th Division
27th Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
110th Division
4th NCPC Infantry Brigade
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Army
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
56th JAAF AF Bn

< Message edited by aphrochine -- 9/26/2012 2:48:28 AM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/26/2012 3:50:42 AM

BBfanboy

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He did get a "-" for supply, so his troop recovery will be slow - but he clearly has not run out of ammo. I don't see a fort value either so he is having trouble building them. However he needs to eat some of his artillery and bullets before you attack again, so I would just bombard for a while. Even if his counterbombardment causes you more casualties, you are causing him to use up supply and his AV will get adjusted downward next assault.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/26/2012 3:22:44 PM

wadail

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Also, keep a close eye on your own level of disruption and don't attack him (other than bombardment) when your units are seriously disrupted. That's a heck of an army to have pinned down and you don't want to let him break out. Remember the four F's of infantry combat:

Find 'em
Fix 'em
Fight 'em
Finish 'em

You have 3 of the 4 accomplished here.

< Message edited by wadail -- 9/26/2012 3:29:37 PM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 9/29/2012 10:06:07 AM

inqistor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: aphrochine

I launched my first Deliberate attack. I'm not at my home computer, so I'll post the results with an updated screen. Not as good as I had hoped. I guess now back to bombardment and watch to see if the IJA's AV recovers.

Completely cut off army will not recover (well, they can got some supply by air drop), as recovery is either repair of devices, or lowering disruption/fatigue. To make sure, they used all the supply you could try another attack. The main trouble with casualities is your worse firepower (he has lots of artillery, and some AFVs).

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

quote:

ORIGINAL: castor troy

quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

Be patient. It takes several months before a sorrounded unit goes out of supply. Bombard them for a couple of months and then try a deliberate attack. You will lose, but you'll recover, they won't. Bombard them for few more months and repeat the process back again

it doesn't take months until a ground unit runs out of supply if it is cut off

CT, the lengthy time I cited was sans combat - just keeping the unit out of touch with roads or bases. I know they will run out much quicker if you attack or bombard them, but aphrochine is concerned about the supply available to initiate an attack on his side. Does your experience with this include starving surrounded enemies without attacking?
I am interested because the units I monitored were not completely cut off and may have receiived a trickle of supply [used up each day so I could not see how much, if any].

If there is supply path, units will receive full supply (they can get less, if there is not enough in nearby bases). The only problem is length of such path. The longer it is, the rarer supply is delivered (down to once per week).
Without supply - fatigue increases, and once it is high enough devices begin to disable.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 10/1/2012 7:34:34 PM

aphrochine

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So an update...

Here is the current layout.

There have been no attacks since the last one from either side. I have about 1400 AV on the road and 1100 directly east of the encirclement. It appears that there is major movement from the Tank colum to the east hex, so I'm redeploying back and gonna aim to have most of the AV there when the Tank Division hits. I'm bringing up another 300 AV from the south of Sian and I have 2 AT Regiments coming in to reinforce my roughly 40+ 37mm guns I have strune across the front.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 10/1/2012 8:27:19 PM

wadail

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I have sort of the same situation with a large Japanese army I have surrounded in Canton, but can not muster more than 1-1. I figure eventually I will attrition the forces enough that the pocket collapses (The look out Hong Kong!) but the lack of Chinese combat engineers to reduce fortifications is making this take much longer than it should.

I watch disruption and % TOE, and when the infantry moves up a little I send another human wave against the fortification. On turns the infantry is resting I bombard the Japanese forces with artillery units.

< Message edited by wadail -- 10/1/2012 8:28:18 PM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/20/2012 7:27:55 AM

aphrochine

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Well, this is my 4th deliberate attack. The encirclement was complete and the stack cut off sometime around September (I forget exact date).

It's now Jan 7th, and I'm abandoning the effort to kill off the stack. The force keeps recovering it's disables and with a 3300 adjusted AV, I dont think the supply is anywhere near run out. It's getting supply somehow, despite owning all hexes adjacent with exception to one which is his break out attempt. Even that hex, I own 5/6 hexsides.

Ground combat at 85,39 (near Sian)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 79258 troops, 558 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2251

Defending force 79581 troops, 800 guns, 441 vehicles, Assault Value = 2282

Allied adjusted assault: 434

Japanese adjusted defense: 3641

Allied assault odds: 1 to 8

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
2379 casualties reported
Squads: 5 destroyed, 179 disabled
Non Combat: 1 destroyed, 66 disabled
Engineers: 0 destroyed, 13 disabled
Guns lost 28 (1 destroyed, 27 disabled)
Vehicles lost 12 (2 destroyed, 10 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6743 casualties reported
Squads: 127 destroyed, 720 disabled
Non Combat: 8 destroyed, 84 disabled
Engineers: 3 destroyed, 56 disabled
Guns lost 62 (3 destroyed, 59 disabled)

Assaulting units:
13th Chinese Corps
55th Chinese Corps
93rd Chinese Corps
1st New Chinese Corps
27th Chinese Corps
91st Chinese Corps
30th Chinese Corps
35th Chinese Corps
29th Chinese Corps
3rd Construction Regiment
49th AA Regiment

Defending units:
116th Division
9th Ind.Mixed Brigade
60th Infantry Brigade
15th Division
36th Division
110th Division
24th Division
2nd Ind.Mixed Brigade
27th Division
4th NCPC Infantry Brigade
7th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
1st Army
6th Ind.Hvy.Art. Battalion
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
12th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
11th Ind.Hvy.Art Battalion
56th JAAF AF Bn

I have no more force to bring in. If the lack of supply wasnt enough, it's not in the cards.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/20/2012 1:43:31 PM

Bullwinkle58

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Just a comment from a non-land guy:

Your Chinese stack has no HQ support at all. He does.

Where in his stack are all the vehicles? I don't know the Japanese OOB well enough. Are they all trucks, of are there tanks in some of the mixed LCUs?

When I've played the Chinese in AI games, I've only had great success in fighting huge Japanese stacks like this when the Chinese do the infantry, but I use other Allied armor to break through. Then you can get some major retreat routs.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/20/2012 3:02:26 PM

1EyedJacks

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You realize the defenders has a 2x terrain advantage in rough terrain - yes? (page 189 of manual). Also - if you review section 8.4.2.2 on page 197 you'll see the following:

Unit Fatigue, Terrain, Disruption, Experience, Morale, and Leadership directly impact combat firepower, losses, and the odds of attack.

You posted:

quote:

Ground combat at 85,39 (near Sian)

Allied Deliberate attack

Attacking force 71943 troops, 505 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 2754

Defending force 83266 troops, 825 guns, 456 vehicles, Assault Value = 2389

Allied adjusted assault: 756

Japanese adjusted defense: 2285

Allied assault odds: 1 to 3

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), supply(-)
Attacker:

So it looks like you both have roughly the same number of troops and your opponent is enjoying the terrain bonus. I'm just thinking that you need a bigger hammer... Like maybe 2 times bigger.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/20/2012 4:53:04 PM

obvert

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I think unless you have about 4k AV more coming soon, there is now no way to ever rout the IJA in this hex. His forts are built up, he's about to reinforce, and you don't even have enough for what is there now. Might be a good time to get into some good defensive territory and dig hard.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/20/2012 5:50:02 PM

KenchiSulla

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Note that he dropped 100 raw AV from your last delib attack. He is not getting supplies, it is just a mofo big stack... Another reason to play with stacking limits!

< Message edited by Cannonfodder -- 11/20/2012 5:51:08 PM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/20/2012 5:57:15 PM

btbw

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If you can defend hesex on E and SE then you can try defeat him.
Bring artillery units to hex. Dug troops with highest Admin skill leaders and enough support. Let them make lvl2 fort.
Use artillery for bombardment - you need continous bombardments with any results. Tired units switch to reserve for 1-2 turns and rotate them.
Assault troops also rotate combat/reserve (half of them resting in reserve, another defend hex from his counterattack).
Air raid from as much air groups as you have near (some of them use on incoming troops for prevent fast moving and raise his losses/disruption).
LRCAP from closes bases and watch if transport interception happen then dramatically increase numbers of LRCAP.
Your opponent already have supply issue so he eaten half of supplies atm. Dont hurry up with deliberate attacks and save your troops.
You need not much troops here - just enough for rotate reserve/combat and defend hex. Bring more HQs and AT units (may be flaks too if he start bomb you).

< Message edited by btbw -- 11/20/2012 6:03:37 PM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/21/2012 5:09:21 PM

aphrochine

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I've had this stack surrounded fully for 3+ months. They rebuild their units their adjusted AV has not been very affected. I send in LRCAP occasionally with no detection.

My HQs are in the hex behind. My understanding is Range 1, is adjacent hex, not same hex. Is that incorrect??

I 4E bombarded him from Ledo for 2 months solid, doing decent damage. Max Range ops losses and occasional LRCAP has forced me to stop this without running the longer ranged british 4E bombing capability into the ground. I'd rather save the strength for other things, especially now killing this stack is a lost cause.

I have no more troops to give this. To the east is a 5k stack trying to relieve it. I've stopped all efforts to break through that approach, but with 100 bombers hitting that target daily, not much I can do about it. CAP traps only stop the bombing for a week while sweeps clear the skies and reconstitutes

This has really been a bit frustrating, because it's a force cut off for 3 months and by the looks of his adjusted AV, still fighting strong. There has gotta be some kind of supply bleed through my hexsides or he's somehow flown massive air transports in with supply without me ever detecting it. But then that brings up another point, just how large of a stack should air transports be able to keep in good health...and without an airfield.

Oh well, it's done now. Thought I'd offer some closure to this thread.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/22/2012 3:10:41 PM

Crackaces

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You created an interesting situation in this game. I thought I would add some thoughts for newbies like me ..

Ok ... The surrounded enemy units cannot move from the hex. As aphrochine demonsntrated with the 'w' key he owns the inner-doors of the hex. The enemy has to bring a unit into the nex from the outside to free the units.

I am thinking the poster thought they created a "Stalingrad". It has been dissussed that no supply is getting into the surrounded units. or the hex. Tatically in this game, this only lowers the adjusted combat value, and zero supply at worse 1/2 the total combat value. As has been pointed out, the terrrain in the defense brings this value back. It is my observation that on an operational level in this game, things like morale are uneffected by starvation -- such as a IRF situation like Stalingrad. However, supply does affect the ability to recover. So as has been pointed out disabaled squads stay disabled and dead sqauds are not replaced. Thus it is quite possible to have zero supply in a non-malaria zone and live forever in a stalemate. Just like troops can dine and make bullets on fuel [i.e. Fortress Palembang

] in this game , there is some minimal level of beans and bullets in each hex that little MacGyver's and Robinson Crusoe's survive from

. The final obsticle to this particular situation is a lack of air superiority. Simply, the enemy does not have to fly any supplies in, as the attacker does not have the adjusted combat value to cause harm, and quite the opposite is true. The ememy has frozen forces they can bomb at will. [i.e. Frozen menaing when I see the little arrow show you are moving I might take a crack at attacking unsupplied because op-mode offers a huge bonus] Your forces being attrited when combined with op-mode and disruption ... well I might prevail unsupplied ...

So some game behaviors that might be counter-intutive ...For example, exceeding stacking limits is far more devastating than being surrounded with no supply. Thus games with stacking limits have behaviors somewhat more in line with what is exepected although things can happen not as expected.

There is a situation in malaria zone like Burma where as over time disruption, disablement, and eventually squads in a non-base hex are destroyed. I do believe [somebody please correct me] that supply does effect the rate of disablement? This statment from an observation of surrounding a superior IJ force [almost the entire 15th Army

] in the jungle hex south of Taung Gyi ,and noted the IJ's adjusted attack value changed very favorably in a very short period of time.

As a note, add stacking limits to this situation and the final coup-de-grace was reinforcements exceeding stacking limits in attempt to extract the situation leading to the destruction of the Army. Simply, the maneuver of bringing in excessive force to open the 'inner door' so to speak .. hastened the army's demise.

Just as a final thought .. intution is punished severly in this game at many levels. In my opinion, one must read the rules, read this forum especally the likes of Alfred, observe behaviors, and then formulate tatical, operational, and strategic maneuvers based on how the game works. Often this is counter-intutive in my opinion.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/22/2012 4:50:10 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
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IIRC zero supply cuts AV to 1/4.

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/22/2012 5:23:32 PM

Crackaces

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Joined: 7/9/2011
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quote:

ORIGINAL: witpqs

IIRC zero supply cuts AV to 1/4.

You are absoutely correct:

Unit Supply

a unit with 100% supply has its unadjusted assault value multiplied by 1
a unit with 75% supply is multiplied by 0.8
a unit with 50% supply is multiplied by 0.6
a unit with 25% supply is multiplied by 0.4
a unit with zero supply is multiplied by 0.25

Fortification Level

fort level 0 = 1x unadjusted assault value
fort level 1 = 1.1x
fort level 2 = 1.25x
fort level 3 = 1.5x
fort level 4 = 1.75x
fort level 5 = 2x
fort level 6 = 2.25x
fort level 7 = 2.5x
fort level 8 = 2.75x
fort level 9 = 3x

Then terrain modifiers on top ....rendering about 50% strength with the exception of clear terrain, rough jungle ... making no supply attacks a lot tougher than defending with no supoies in terms of AV and Odds ..Do I succeed in "winning" the battle, moving the defender, and increasing morale vs. attacking at less than 1:1 and suffering morale effects and in terms "losing" the battle as the attacker ...

One other thing to discuss is the effects of supplies on firepower, which seems to follow this table also .. that is I beleive total firepower is effected by supply as is being in a fort .. ???

< Message edited by Crackaces -- 11/22/2012 5:29:09 PM >

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RE: Killing off a surrounded but superior Army... (no t... - 11/23/2012 3:19:44 PM

witpqs

Posts: 26087
Joined: 10/4/2004
From: Argleton
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Fortification Level

fort level 0 = 1x unadjusted assault value
fort level 1 = 1.1x
fort level 2 = 1.25x
fort level 3 = 1.5x
fort level 4 = 1.75x
fort level 5 = 2x
fort level 6 = 2.25x
fort level 7 = 2.5x
fort level 8 = 2.75x
fort level 9 = 3x

I calculated this one a bit differently, and I think I recall that Alfred did it the same way (before I did).

Forts 0 = 100%
Forts 9 = 300%

So, 300% - 100% = 200% total increment when forts are 9.

The steps in between are all even increments.

Therefore each step is worth 200% / 9 = 22.2222222...% increment (call it 22%).

I would amend your table to be:

quote:

Fortification Level

fort level 0 = 1x unadjusted assault value
fort level 1 = 1.22x
fort level 2 = 1.44x
fort level 3 = 1.66x
fort level 4 = 1.88x
fort level 5 = 2.10x
fort level 6 = 2.32x
fort level 7 = 2.54x
fort level 8 = 2.76x
fort level 9 = 3x

You could get more precise with the decimals, but that's pretty close.

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