Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim)

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Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/14/2012 4:24:57 AM

DivePac88

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From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
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The situation for turn 7, the week starting on the 31st July 1941.

Heeresgruppe Nord.

The 50th armee korps took Tallinn this week, routing the 3 defending Russian units back behind their own lines on the Narva River. But I don’t mind not destroying those enemy units, as I wanted Tallinn quickly, and didn’t want them routing to the west.

The Russian’s have now evacuated Pskov as I thought they would, but have still kept in close contact to the north. I was a bit surprised by this, as I thought Stavka would withdraw behind the River Plyussa. Another thing I find a surprise is that there doesn’t seem to be defensive line in place behind the River Luga.

So the plan this week for the 18th Armee, is for the 2 northern armee korps to put pressure on the Narva River line. While the 2 southern armee korps, will simply push north toward the Luga River, on the axis of the crossing at the town of Luga.

Panzergruppe 4 will rest and build-up supplies this week, but overall it’s divisions are still in good condition. I will send the Panzergruppe at Novgorod, after the infantry divisions of the 16th Armee have secured Volot.

Heeresgruppe Zentrum

The 9th Armee managed to penetrate the Russian line west of Polotski, and make a gap wide enough for Panzergruppe 3 to pass through. The original plan had been for the Panzergruppe, had been to clear the west bank of the River Dvina above Vitebsk.

But this plan was modified, and the Panzergruppe instead drove toward Velikie Luki. Which the Panzergruppe or the 9th Armee should capture easily next week. Also if by next week the enemy has not withdrawn from the area north of Vitebsk, the Panzergruppe will attempt to isolate them.

The 4th Armee and Panzergruppe 2 were unable to break through the Russian line south of Mogilev, because of very heavy resistance. The 9th Armee did cross and clear the west Bank of the River Drut, but the Panzergruppe was unable to force a crossing of the River Dnepr.

2nd Armee has now split with 2 armee korps moving up along the northern face of the Swamp, and its 2 other armee korps fighting east along the southern face of the Swamp. While the 1st Kavallerie division and the 8th SS-Kavallerie brigade, will now screen the middle of the swamp (thanks to advice).

Heeresgruppe Süden.

The situation in the south has vastly improved this week, with the creation of an encirclement of Russian forces in the Vinnista area (the Vinnista flytrap). The plan had originally been for the 6th Armee to punch through just south of Zhitamir, but on Janh’s advice I moved the operation further south to just above Vinnista.

The modified plan worked beautifully, and the 6th Armee was able to make a wide and deep penetration of the Russian line. 46 and 14 panzer Korps of Panzergruppe 1 were then able to easily breakout to the east, and linkup with the southern pincer of the Panzergruppe well east of Vinnista.

The original plan in the south also worked well, with the 17th Armee advancing out of the mountains south of Vinnista. Then after some heavy fighting, the 17th Armee also made a wide breech in the Russian line. The 48 and 3 panzer Korps then crossed the southern branch of the River Bug, pushing a few enemy units aside, and advanced to Tetiev.

My thinking is that Stavka will withdraw his forces from the north and south of Vinnista, and not attempt to relieve the pocket from the outside. But that he might be able breakout some of his mobile units from the pocket, if they have enough fuel. But I think his rifle divisions, with maybe 9 or 10 being trapped, will not be able to escape.

Also to the south, the 11th Armee made a deep penetration of the Russian line in the Kodyma area. While the Romanians are advancing east south of Kishinev, to close up on the Russian line along the River Dnestr.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 31

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/14/2012 3:02:45 PM

Klydon

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

The 50th armee korps took Tallinn this week, routing the 3 defending Russian units back behind their own lines on the Narva River. But I don’t mind not destroying those enemy units, as I wanted Tallinn quickly, and didn’t want them routing to the west.

I am not trying to beat you up on this, but rather help with some game mechanics you may or may not be aware of. Neither of these strategies below are foolproof, but:

First, since Tallinn is a port, any Russians there are considered in supply and will rout rather than surrender. You can bomb the port and knock it out, then send in the troops, but I think Tallinn is a good sized port, so that may not work so hot.

The second way is to leave one of the hexes around Tallinn in Russian hands (IE, don't flip it when you move troops in for the attack). What this will achieve is allow the Russian troops a retreat path. You make your attack and if the Russians simply retreat instead of routing, they will retreat themselves into isolation after you take the port. Next turn, you attack them again and they will surrender. (Note: the Russian units still may rout when you attack, but at least you give yourself a chance to bag them).

Since those units routed, Jim will have their use in a turn or two after they recover and you get to face them again on the approaches to Leningrad.

Being able to "steer" enemy units retreating is something that takes a bit to learn, but it can make a big difference over the long haul.

(in reply to DivePac88)

Post #: 32

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/14/2012 9:20:28 PM

DivePac88

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Thanks there Klydon...

I was sort of aware of the attacking routine you have explained, but was a bit nervous about using it. As I really wanted to take Tallinn this week, and I considered 50 armee korps needed 3 full divisions to do so. But that by breaking up 1 division into regiments to make the extra encirclement, would have left insufficient force to storm Tallinn. There is a 4th division belonging to 50 armee korps, but it would have been next week until it was up in position to assault or encircle Tallinn.

Another reason was that I only get one shot at the assault on Tallinn, as I have a rule of not retrying a save. Because I think that it is gamey, and I play WitE the way I have always played WitP-AE, where it is against the rules to retry a turn. Also my calculations had shown me that 2 divisions and 1 regiment would have been a close-run thing, whereas 3 full divisions would have a good probability of pulling it off.

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Post #: 33

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/15/2012 7:02:55 PM

sillyflower

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good pocket @ Vinnitsa. Can't see anything getting out. just hope he tries a relief as that should end only in another pocket

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Post #: 34

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/15/2012 7:13:23 PM

Seminole

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quote:

as I have a rule of not retrying a save. Because I think that it is gamey, and I play WitE the way I have always played WitP-AE, where it is against the rules to retry a turn.

Nobody should be retrying turns, or each week turns into an example of the very best (or worst depending on which side you're on) of what could have happened.

I run my turns in 'phases' and save in between because I've had a PBEM go to save screen and no buttons appeared at the bottom for me to create a new save (I've seen this happen more than once, especially if the game is left on overnight or a really long time). Only choice was to do the turn again and try to remember what I had done, and with over 700 on map units, air groups, refit status, etc. that is a lot of time to just lose.
Now when I start a turn I read the weekly report, review enemy attacks and look over my options. Send AGs to reserve and assign as necessary, save, make my moves necessary for combat, save, then my 'strategic moves' of shifting reserves or re-deploying defenses, save, then check my refit status and production status before hitting end turn.

(in reply to sillyflower)

Post #: 35

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/17/2012 11:35:06 PM

DivePac88

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The situation for turn 8, the week starting on the 7th August 1941.

Sorry Guys but I haven't got time for a progress report, as I spent too much time on the map. But I think the map gives you a pretty good picture, and I'll make up for it next week.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by DivePac88 -- 10/18/2012 3:29:02 AM >

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Post #: 36

Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/18/2012 3:25:40 AM

DivePac88

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Just a note on my current strategy, which is really the result or answer to Jim’s (Stavka) early successful forward defence strategy. Stavka’s early defensive and spoiling attack tactics were causing me much grief, and in some areas actually stalling my advance.

While my infantry was still tied down with the early pockets, or in the process of catching up with my Panzergruppen. He had basically stalled my panzers, by launching spoiling attacks to cut the LOC. While also marking my mobile divisions closely to inhibit my supply operations, especially refuelling.

By the 4th week of the campaign I was becoming very concerned with my advance, and was taking some flank (Justified) in my AAR about my Generalship. So I had a good long think about my strategy (and a couple of sleepless nights), and came up with the operational doctrine that I am using now.

I knew that I had to somehow attack his strategy, which was basically a slow retreat, with small opportune spoiling attacks. First I decided that I had to rest and fully resupply my panzer divisions, and to do this unimpeded I had to withdraw them behind the mainline.

Then I had to pick were to attack his line, and then the axis for my panzer’s to exploit. So I worked out that his defences were centred on the main rail lines, which means his main communication centres. Then that his frontline, and mobile covering forces thin-out has his front moves away from these Towns and Cities.

So basically that is where I’m hitting him now, and as you can see by my to resent pockets it is working. But there is a major drawback to my current strategy, and that is that it slows my operational tempo, with the week or two off for resupply. Also I know that my opponent will soon work-out what I’m up to, and I will again have to modify my strategy.

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Post #: 37

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/18/2012 6:58:33 AM

sillyflower

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Your new approach seems to be working. If you don't kill enough Russians and destroy units, you can't advance well. Destroy the red army and you can the go anywhere.

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Post #: 38

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/18/2012 8:43:16 AM

DivePac88

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Thanks sillyflower... but I also think I probably getting some good rolls.

Also it won't take a player of Jim's caliber long to find a way to counter my current strategy.

But the main thing is I'm having fun, even when I have the bad turns.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 39

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/18/2012 4:47:18 PM

Durgard

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Hi
Very nice AAR !

What kind of mod do you use to have so beautifull counters????

I didn't spot that stuff in any forum...

Thx for your great work !

(in reply to DivePac88)

Post #: 40

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/18/2012 5:39:05 PM

Schmart

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I have a hunch that it appears you're a little too passive with your German infantry. A single German Inf Div is almost guarranteed to push back any Russian unit during the summer of 1941 when using deliberate attack. Additional Divs might be needed when attacking across a major river or well fortified hex, but in a one-on-one fight, the German Inf Div should win a majority of the time on deliberate attack. Even hasty attacks against a 1 or 2 CV Russian Div (when your German Inf Div has only a few MPs left) has a pretty good chance of success. I see many places in the above screenshots where you could've pushed back some extra Russians units and inflict more losses. These kinds of attacks grind the Russians down.

< Message edited by Schmart -- 10/18/2012 5:40:19 PM >

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Post #: 41

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/19/2012 8:39:36 AM

DivePac88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dudu

What kind of mod do you use to have so beautifull counters????
I didn't spot that stuff in any forum...

Hi Dudu, I'm using Geyerfalck's counters and Tactical symbols, and here is the link - http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2682014

Cheers Des.

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Post #: 42

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/19/2012 8:46:50 AM

DivePac88

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Hi there Schmart...

Thanks for your comment, and yes you're probably right there. But I do try and mother my infantry divisions a bit, and maybe to much. Because I like the to go into the winter with good TOE and morale, so have an aversion to launching any risky or unnecessary attacks.

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Post #: 43

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/19/2012 9:36:37 AM

janh

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88
Hi there Schmart...

Thanks for your comment, and yes you're probably right there. But I do try and mother my infantry divisions a bit, and maybe to much. Because I like the to go into the winter with good TOE and morale, so have an aversion to launching any risky or unnecessary attacks.

Yeah, I did about the same in my first campaign. Play as if the Germans were seriously short on everything, so I reduced Luftwaffe usage a lot, and minimized attacks with Panzers and the Infantry. Afterwards I found that the Germans are not near as hamstrung as my own mind was.

It depends a bit on whether you plan for a sudden death victory, or aim for winning in the long haul -- former case you can risk to burn your forces to make the last yard, yet it is somewhat gamey. After 43 manpower gets tighter, mainly if you had divisions encircled, but Panzers can be replaced surprisingly easily. You'll rarely have a shortage, most times you stumble about the ToE allocation issue.

Before 43 you get sufficient forces to replenish the losses and you can afford deliberate attacks well. As Schmart said, if facing brigades, or single unentrenched infantry divisions in summer 41, think of it as bowling. Chances are good to rout them, and the more often you rout them, the heavier the toll on the Russian truck park.

During the blizzard it is sometimes good to set your infantry to 70% ToE since less men in the units lower attrition. The combat penalties are so severe anyways that before February the 20% less fighting men/power "end up as" rounding errors anyway -- it didn't seem to make a difference in my games, I could not hold with them either.
What do you guys think about this question?

< Message edited by janh -- 10/19/2012 9:38:49 AM >

(in reply to DivePac88)

Post #: 44

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/19/2012 3:48:45 PM

Durgard

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Thx a lot for the link !

< Message edited by Dudu -- 10/19/2012 3:49:28 PM >

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Post #: 45

RE: Metaphor – DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/19/2012 5:43:39 PM

Schmart

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

Hi there Schmart...

Thanks for your comment, and yes you're probably right there. But I do try and mother my infantry divisions a bit, and maybe to much. Because I like the to go into the winter with good TOE and morale, so have an aversion to launching any risky or unnecessary attacks.

No worries. I think too many players underestimate the German ability to grind the Russians with deliberate attacks from Infantry Divisions. Despite what we read in many history books, it wasn't all dash and daring by massed panzers. Keeping the pressure up will also prevent the Russians from digging in, building-up forts, maintaining integrity of defense lines, etc. I am thinking specifically from your T8 screenshot in the 9th and 4th Army sectors, where there are Infantry Divisions that have most if not all of their MPs remaining. They shouldn't just be sitting there doing nothing. If you're worried about unnecessary casualties then make deliberate attacks with 2 Divisions. There are some hexes there with Bdes or without forts that'll be easy wins. Otherwise, you're giving the Russians extra bonus time to dig in, and then you'll really be suffering unnecessay casualties to root them out later...

And a lot of it is damned if you do, damned if you don't. A good infantry force going into the first winter could also mean far fewer casualties for the Russians, more Russian masses, stronger blizzard counter-offensive, etc.

There's a learning curve involved. Try a few more deliberate attacks and watch the results. Then try some hasties vs CV 1 or 2 Rifle Divisions, especially those without forts or Divisions that you've already pushed back and are on the run. What you do want to watch out for is Russians in swamps. Those will need more attention. Don't forget that combat wins will INCREASE the morale and experience of your winning units.

(in reply to DivePac88)

Post #: 46

DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/22/2012 3:00:59 AM

DivePac88

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Situation for turn 9, the week of the 14th August 1941.

One of the downsides of being a micromanager is support units, and this turn was finetuning time. For the first 5 weeks I mainly leave the SU’s alone and locked, as they are already allocated to the korps that do most of the early breakthroughs. But at the start of week 6 I unlock the SU’s, Set OKH to 9, Heeresgruppen and Armee to 0, then korps to 1.

Then after 3 or 4 weeks I finetune all SU allocation, basically following assignments; Infantry korps get 2 howitzer, 1 gun, 1 LW AA, 1 pioneer, 1 construction battalions. While Panzer korps get 1 howitzer, 1 or 2 nebelwerfer, 2 pioneer. The 210mm and 150mm howitzer battalions, along some construction battalions go to the Armee level. While the siege artillery goes to OKH, and is doled out to the Heeresgruppen for the special operations.

Heeresgruppe Nord.

On the Finnish front Stavka finally withdrew from the Wiborg area, after I had pushed in his eastern flank last week, and have now withdrawn to the old boarder. On the eastern side of Lake Ladoga, it would also appear the enemy has withdrawn also.

On the northern wing of the 18th armee I have managed to push across the Narva River in the Slantso area, and advance to the southeast. While the infantry divisions of the southern korps of the 18th armee and 1 panzer korps have pushed north and meet the northern force, and trapped 5 enemy divisions.

Heeresgruppe Zentrum.

Mainly static here, with the cleaning-out of the Loknja kesselschlacht. There were also some local attacks to gain good jump-off positions, while other divisions are moving into positions for another attempt to advance on Smolensk.

Heeresgruppe Süden.

The reduction of the Vinnitsa kesselschlacht was completed, and now the advance to the new Russian bolt lines is underway. Also I am now working-up an operation to envelope Kiev, and am trying to decide on a crossing point to the south of Kiev between Cherkassy, any ideas?

Ende.

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by DivePac88 -- 10/22/2012 8:37:12 AM >

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Post #: 47

DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/24/2012 11:47:24 PM

DivePac88

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Situation for turn 9, the week of the 21st August 1941.

No report this week sorry, too much real life stuff today I'm afraid.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 48

DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/25/2012 3:06:54 AM

DivePac88

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Though I should introduce my chiefs of staff; On the left is Franz Halder, and on the right is Wilhelm Keitel.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 49

RE: DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/25/2012 3:28:52 AM

Klydon

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What? no Jodl?

Crossing point for the Dnepr can be a bit tricky depending on how well the Russians are dug in and how much you have to force a crossing. The area just south of Kiev can be tough simply because you don't have a lot of room to manuver between Kiev and the rough area. In addition, there is no real defensive protection on the other side of the river and the Russians can try throwing a lot at you to push back whatever came across. I like the area between Cherkassy and the Sula river. I can get some flank protection on my right there from the Sula river and have some room to get additional troops across the following turn or to help enlarge the bridgehead from across the river since I have a couple of spots I can launch 3 hex attacks from if needed.

(in reply to DivePac88)

Post #: 50

RE: DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/25/2012 9:23:40 AM

janh

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Seems they are quite comfy with the progress...

Dare I ask what strategy they propose?

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Post #: 51

DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/25/2012 9:33:46 PM

DivePac88

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quote:

ORIGINAL:Klydon

What? no Jodl?

Hi Klydon... Here's a pic of Keitel and Jodl conferring on the pouch, but sadly Jodl and Halder aren't so friendly.

I like your Crossing point south of Cherkassy, and especially with the Sula on the southern flank. To be honest I had looked at that area, and thought it was too restrictive, but after another pass I think it has possibilities.

quote:

ORIGINAL:janh

Dare I ask what strategy they propose?

Hello there Janh, good to see you again. I think Keitel's main strategy is biting, and Halder believes in scratching.

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 52

RE: DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/26/2012 8:15:19 AM

Apollo11

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Hi all,

Nice Des!

Leo "Apollo11"

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Post #: 53

RE: DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/26/2012 1:20:15 PM

dave_wolf

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quote:

ORIGINAL: DivePac88

Though I should introduce my chiefs of staff; On the left is Franz Halder, and on the right is Wilhelm Keitel.

They like to play with Blondi?

BTW are those hand-made "modified" screenshots or do you use some tool to create them? (They're excellent!)

< Message edited by dave_wolf -- 10/26/2012 1:22:57 PM >

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Post #: 54

RE: DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/27/2012 10:34:29 AM

DivePac88

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quote:

ORIGINAL: dave_wolf

They like to play with Blondi?

BTW are those hand-made "modified" screenshots or do you use some tool to create them? (They're excellent!)

Ja sie würden zu spielen mit Schäferhündin Blondi und Wolf

I manually cut and paste the maps with Paint.Net - http://www.getpaint.net/index.html, and they are slowly getting better I think as I learn.

< Message edited by DivePac88 -- 10/27/2012 10:36:08 AM >

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Post #: 55

RE: DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/28/2012 1:50:50 AM

DivePac88

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*** Report to follow ***

Attachment (1)

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Post #: 56

DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/28/2012 9:14:44 AM

DivePac88

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Situation for Week 11, starting from the 14th August, 1941.

Heeresgruppe Nord.

On the Finnish front you can see on the map it appears that Stavka (Jim) has now pulled back to the old border, which I cannot cross for the present. This I had expected him to have done from the opening of the war, but he has in fact made a fighting withdrawal. This has been his overall doctrine, and has given me a chance to damage most of these defending divisions. Which, no drought he will have to use some of to defend south of Leningrad.

You will also see from the map that I have launched a breakthrough operation (Operation Imker {Bee keeper}) to the west of Leningrad, and managed to isolate about 10-12 enemy divisions. I had planned this operation to eliminate his mobile divisions, which I had thought would be in this area. But it would appear from a rough count, that I have mostly bagged rifle divisions.

Heeresgruppe Zentrum.

The main news here is operation Rattenfanger (Pied Piper), which has not fully succussed because of heavy Soviet resistance. The initial objective for the meeting of Panzergruppen 2 and 3 had been just to the east of Smolensk. But when it became clear that this would not be possible, I decided to turn inward early to slow any withdrawal down, as attempt the meeting in the next week.

Meanwhile on the southern flank of the Heeresgruppen, the 2nd Armee is fighting to establish a front to the east of the Pripet Marches. With the 2 northern korps forcing a 1 division bridgehead across the River Dnepr just north of Zhoblin, while the southern 2 korps have managed to clear the Soviets from the west bank of the Dnepr north of Kiev.

Heeresgruppe Süden.

There was a lot of action in this area with the Infantry mainly closing up on Kiev and the west bank of the Dnepr River, then clearing the east bank but not Kiev of the enemy. The 6th Armee is tasked with covering the northern flank of the Heeresgruppen, and to also give the impression to the Soviets that it will force a crossing north of Cherkassy. While the 17th Armee actually affects the real crossing just south of Cherkassy, thanks to Klydon’s excellent advice.

You will see that I have switched the 11th Armee to the southern flank of the Heeresgruppen, to the coastal region. This I think could have taken Stavka by surprise, as he would have expected the 11th Armee further north and hopefully built-up his defence accordingly. I have also attached 3 panzer korps to the 11th Armee for to 2 operations, one of which was Hintertur (back door) which I will cover next.

I planned Operation Hintertur as a counter, if the enemy decided to hold me up at the port of Odessa. This operation was one of the reasons for the early southern deployment of the 11th Armee south, and as you can see has worked well. As I now hold the port, which means the 7 rifle divisions around the port are now trapped. It also helped that Stavka had used his defending divisions to beat-up my Allies the previous week, and only actually had 1 rifle division holding the port itself.

Ende.

< Message edited by DivePac88 -- 10/28/2012 9:39:36 AM >

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RE: DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/28/2012 11:02:49 AM

janh

Posts: 1216
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Some nice moves! I think the Rattenfänger is going catch his rats soon. Jim will have to contract his lines around Smolensk and most likely abandon his heavy defenses on the upper Djenpr around Mogilev, or at least start a withdrawal of some unit to reconnect with Smolensk and escape the threat of being outflanked. The main thing is that you now have breached the Smolensk line to the north (almost across the width of the landbridge it would seem) and to the south!

Hmmh, what next? Perhaps using PG2 and PG3 to the south and north of Smolensk for a deeper penetration? The infantry should keep the supply lines open and do pocket duty. PG2 I would put on an axis towards Waskowo Railway station and then either turn it south to Roslawl if Jim holds the Djenpr bend, or turn it northward to link up with PG3 to the east of Smolensk.
With some luck PG3 might find easy going via Demidov to Durowo or Drogobush. That's were I bet behind the river (again that one...) you'll find the next line of his, the Vyazma defenses if Jim already had had time to set them up. Now some alternating HQ-build ups might come handy, Panzerkorps relieving Panzerkorps to maintain momentum.

The German offensives, more so than the Russians due to the much better mobility and large force disparity in 41/42, seem to depend critically on throwing the Russian player's balance off in the first two or three turns, and then keeping him off balance until blizzard. Once the Red gets a good respite to create order from chaos (and some help by the German even making his strategy too clearly visible, or even choosing a contest on poor attacker terrain), the Axis will face stronger resistance. Likely not insurmountable given the Wehrmacht clear edge in quality, as I hope you'll soon find, but the Red masses I see on your map here, or seen before when Scar played Axis of where Pelton struggled against Michael in the Valdai, will cost valuable time before blizzard and make things more tedious.

One thing I noticed, which I would probably do differently: You could concentrate your infantry more and allow it to better assist your Panzer fists. For example 16th Armee holding 9th Armee(?) and PG3's left flank, or 4th (?) Armee just to the south of PG 2, could stretch out across the uninteresting parts of the front, and concentrate on other parts. 16th Armee take over at least some 6-8 hexes from 9th & 18th Armee, freeing that to support PG3 or put pressure up towards Velikye Luki and towards Rshev. The Russians in this game usually cannot exploit such weakening as they did historically with the emergencies happening to the south of lake Ilmen, or elsewhere with their heavy counterblows. Having a good Wehrmacht infantry division every two hexes is sufficient in the Valdai or around the Pripyat as any cavalry or so try to sneak thru will be cut from supply quickly and be pretty useless with the isolation rules.

< Message edited by janh -- 10/28/2012 11:06:27 AM >

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DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/28/2012 11:23:00 PM

DivePac88

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Joined: 10/9/2008
From: Somewhere in the South Pacific.
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Hi there Janh … Thanks again for your excellent input, and I think that maybe you and Klydon are my chiefs of staff instead of our pets.

Yes there might be some nice operations rolling, but Jim’s tactics are still proving troublesome. As those penetrations especially in Imker and Rattenfänger were hard going, with 2, sometimes 3 lines of dug in rifle divisions, then some fortified strong points and finally his mobile divisions. I think the only reason I forced the Dnepr for Panzergruppe 2’s breakout was 2 good rolls, and after that it was just fighting for every hex.

In Rattenfänger I had intended to meet the Panzergruppen just to the east of Smolensk, but will reassess it after my next air recon. Sometimes I wish I had a crystal ball, and I could see clearly what’s going on in his rear, but then that would take away the fun and suspense of the campaign. I do extensive air recon, both deep strategic and local tactical, which can take a few hours. But it never really seems to give the full picture, and sometimes one has to use their imagination for good or bad.

I really like your draft ideas for after Smolensk, and will spend hours studying them. I have found that I am actually spending more time planning this game, that playing it. I think you’re correct about his next line based on Vyazama, but can only guess how extensive his defences are. I afraid I have a problem with HQ build-up, only use it really and once, as I consider using it in sequence as chaining. Call me nuts or misguided if you want, but it’s just the way I like to play these games.

I know I still bunch my flanking armee too much, but it comes from all those unrealistic table top and board games I have played. But you are correct, and I need to thin them out so I can concentrate my attacking strategic forces properly. I have a lot of other stupid ideas, and it takes time for things to get into my thick skull. But I am really enjoying this campaign; it ranks as one of the best I’ve ever been involved in, and I’ve had a few. Also I think, and hope that Jim is having the same experience, as I really want to see this to the end.

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When you see the Southern Cross, For the first time
You understand now, Why you came this way

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RE: DivePac(Ger) vs Jim D Burns(Sov), (No Jim) - 10/28/2012 11:39:10 PM

Peltonx

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AGN: Your doing very good and it looks like Leningrad will fall at some point. ASAP send the 4th PZ to center.

AGC: Your not doing that good so far, but SHC lines "look" paper thin and you will probably get some nice pockets soon. I don't think Moscow is withen your reach, unless the SHC keeps the south so over loaded. Its possible hes over doing the south and the center will fall apart quickly, but you only have a few turns to exploit his poor strategy.

AGS: Things look bleak down here so far, only because SHC has so many troops down here many more then needed.

SHC losses seem low, but you could turn that around still.

The over all up side is as long a you survive the blizzard you will have a shot in 42 to turn the tables.

The problem you will fase during blizzard if your not able to KIA 3 millionish russians, you will be facing 5 million mad as hell russians and your chances of getting the german army through winter will not be easy.

SHC has the upper hand right now, but you still have time to get the 3 million KIA needed.

< Message edited by Pelton -- 10/28/2012 11:42:55 PM >

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