Casualties

Matrix Games Forums

Forums Register Login Photo Gallery Member List Search Calendars FAQ

My Profile Inbox Address Book My Subscription My Forums Log Out

Casualties

View related threads: (in this forum | in all forums)

Logged in as: Guest

Users viewing this topic: none

Printable Version

All Forums >> [New Releases from Matrix Games] >> Gary Grigsby's War in the East Series >> Casualties

Page: [1]

Message

<< Older Topic Newer Topic >>

Casualties - 11/17/2012 11:26:38 PM

spilbuster

Posts: 23
Joined: 9/28/2005
Status: offline

hi, was just wondering why when ive finished my turn and it goes through the Russian moves that i incur around 18k casualties a turn to nil on the russian side.

this happens every turn wether there is combat or more frequently atm not, also in any weather.

just wondered if there was a quick answer as its over a division a turn im losing through battle causalties

Post #: 1

RE: Casualties - 11/18/2012 1:09:56 AM

carlkay58

Posts: 8650
Joined: 7/25/2010
Status: offline

Those are attritional losses. The losses occur during your supply phase.

(in reply to spilbuster)

Post #: 2

RE: Casualties - 11/18/2012 2:36:04 AM

bairdlander2

Posts: 2264
Joined: 3/28/2009
From: Toronto Ontario but living in Edmonton,Alberta
Status: offline

I always thought the figure was too high,seems quite a lot of motor accidents,trench foot and suicides

(in reply to carlkay58)

Post #: 3

RE: Casualties - 11/18/2012 6:09:51 AM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

It's a combination of things. There is front line attrition which represents minor combat and shelling. There is also a lot that goes on in the logistics phase dealing with damaged elements. Damaged elements are not considered permanent losses when first damaged, but they can be repaired or destroyed during the logistics phase, and if destroyed, they are added to the permanent losses. Also, many damaged elements are sent back to the pool, and in this process some number become permanent losses. So a lot of these losses are due to the churn that happens when due to fighting and moving, ground elements are damaged but are not turned into permanent losses until a later logistics phase.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to bairdlander2)

Post #: 4

RE: Casualties - 11/27/2012 5:35:14 PM

DaMan

Posts: 4
Joined: 12/12/2010
From: Finland
Status: offline

Is it possible to see Axis total casualties statistics per country? Or is it just Axis total?

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 5

RE: Casualties - 11/27/2012 6:10:40 PM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: spilbuster

hi, was just wondering why when ive finished my turn and it goes through the Russian moves that i incur around 18k casualties a turn to nil on the russian side.

this happens every turn wether there is combat or more frequently atm not, also in any weather.

just wondered if there was a quick answer as its over a division a turn im losing through battle causalties

These loses can be cut down allot by putting units into static mode.

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to spilbuster)

Post #: 6

RE: Casualties - 11/28/2012 12:11:41 PM

swkuh

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline

Pelton's idea for static mode is a good one for those who play for the long game.

But look at total casualties versus turn by turn reports. I see that turn-by-turn doesn't add to total in my AI games. Anyone say why? Or, am I misunderstanding this. Consequently, not paying attention to turn-by-turn data.

_____________________________

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 7

RE: Casualties - 11/28/2012 7:18:03 PM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

Total casualties change as disabled return to the manpower pool (they are not truly permanent). So looking at each turn and adding them up won't match the total. Could this explain what you are seeing?

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to swkuh)

Post #: 8

RE: Casualties - 11/29/2012 1:52:37 PM

swkuh

Posts: 1034
Joined: 10/5/2009
Status: offline

Sure could. Just that the caption says permanent losses which led me to the observation. As may be thought, I don't play the "long game" and the issue is moot.

_____________________________

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 9

RE: Casualties - 11/29/2012 1:59:44 PM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

The problem with casualites screen for me is in the "This Turn" section - they are very "trigger-happy" and reset multiple times during a turn and are useless...

(in reply to swkuh)

Post #: 10

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 6:24:55 AM

Joel Billings

Posts: 32265
Joined: 9/20/2000
From: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: offline

Yes, the current turn numbers are only supposed to reset after you first view them in your turn. If they are resetting again during your turn after the first viewing, this is a bug and we'd love to get some hard info on what might be causing this.

_____________________________

All understanding comes after the fact.
-- Soren Kierkegaard

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 11

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 6:30:37 AM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

I know the first time you are shown casualties from opponent turn and/or from the logistics phase. Unfortunately, they are resetting during the turn as well. Will try to find some examples for that.

(in reply to Joel Billings)

Post #: 12

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 6:57:15 AM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

Scenario:

1. opened the game (PBEM)
2. opened the L screen

Attachment (1)

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 13

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 6:57:55 AM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

3. Closed the L screen
4. Made an attack
5. Opened the L screen

Attachment (1)

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 14

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 6:58:42 AM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

6. Closed the L screen
7. Opened the C screen
8. Closed the C screen
9. Opened the L screen

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by morvael -- 11/30/2012 6:59:40 AM >

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 15

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 6:59:19 AM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

10. Closed the L screen
11. Made an attack
12. Opened the L screen

Attachment (1)

< Message edited by morvael -- 11/30/2012 7:00:00 AM >

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 16

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 7:01:26 AM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

First time the numbers from "Recent" colum added to "Current Turn" column and made sense. After the reset caused by opening Commander's Report the numers do not add up anymore.

edit: I know the "Recent" contains also damaged elements (which is partially misleading as it is next to permanent losses data), but the "Current Turn" should show 19 in Soviet Guns (for example), not 14.

edit: I guess if I would made more attacks at the start, before opening the C report for the first time, the gap would be even bigger as the initial battles would be forgot from the first two columns of the statistics.

< Message edited by morvael -- 11/30/2012 7:13:15 AM >

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 17

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 8:40:21 AM

Helpless

Posts: 15793
Joined: 8/27/2004
Status: offline

The thing is that last turn losses are reset only when you exit the Losses screen by clicking the [x]. If you moved to other screen with the key and closed from there it won't get cleared. So theoretically after step 3 everything should get cleared, if you closed it by clicking x on the top right.

In AI games losses screen is displayed just after logistics, which is not true for PBEM games. So it could happen that PBEM player opens losses screen for the first time after making some attacks, thus adding them to the previous turn data and clearing it out on the close if done with [x].

_____________________________

Pavel Zagzin
WITE/WITW/WITE-2 Development

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 18

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 8:42:47 AM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

Maybe the screen could be shown automatically for PBEM games as well (and then cleared upon exit)? I do use & prefer keyboard shortcuts though. Much faster.

(in reply to Helpless)

Post #: 19

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 11:54:46 AM

Peltonx

Posts: 7250
Joined: 4/9/2006
Status: offline

I have found that the best way to follow loses is from the OOB and total from one turn to the next.

turn 12 SHC 4,500,000
turn 13 SHC 4,400,000

turn 12 SHC losses 2,350,000
Turn 13 SHC losses 2,550,000

Basicly lost 200,000 but gained back about 100,000 from normal replasements.

Turn 14 you will recieve 110,000 ish in replasements instead of the normal 100,000 because some of the "losses" as stated are disabled.

Looking at a single turns snap shot is really not that helpfull. You need to look at the trend of the OOB's and losses and destoryed units(vs Humans).

As long as the enemys OOB is trending down your doing good.

Manpower is really the only bottleneck in the game for both sides. Armaments are not an issue for anyone anymore unless your doing something very wrong.

_____________________________

Beta Tester WitW & WitE

(in reply to morvael)

Post #: 20

RE: Casualties - 11/30/2012 12:00:59 PM

morvael

Posts: 11762
Joined: 9/8/2006
From: Poland
Status: offline

Yeah, I'm just keeping a Google Docs spreadsheet and copy the OOB numbers each turn in the various categories like Men, Guns, AFVs and Planes so I have very good overview of the trends.

If manpower is the bottleneck then maybe one could invest in "technical" units, like tanks and artillery - those which use comparatively less manpower, while limit the number of infantry units. Those should use more ARM/SUP than manpower.

(in reply to Peltonx)

Post #: 21