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Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 11:06:45 AM

Mad Igor

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Matrix,you should hire that dude :P
i'd like to what he can do with someone who have $ and resources and we may just get DW in 3D

PS: google it or youtube.don't want to spam 2 much.
PSS: and no,it's not better or worse than DW,they just different.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 1:22:42 PM

WiZz

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Look at this project. Empty, death, pale. Why Matrix needs this guy?

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 1:26:13 PM

Mad Igor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: WiZz

Look at this project. Empty, death, pale. Why Matrix needs this guy?

you played it ?

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 2:21:20 PM

Kayoz

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20 year old kid with no experience, no track record, nothing more than an inflated ego and immense hubris.

Unless this guy was secretly cloned from brain tissue samples of Sid Meyer, Julain Gollop and Ian Bell - I'd say the likelihood of his coming anything close to expectation is pretty minimal.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 2:45:53 PM

Mad Igor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz

20 year old kid with no experience, no track record, nothing more than an inflated ego and immense hubris.

Unless this guy was secretly cloned from brain tissue samples of Sid Meyer, Julain Gollop and Ian Bell - I'd say the likelihood of his coming anything close to expectation is pretty minimal.

i love when ppl talk about anything like they are allknowing prophets...srsly,stop it.
you don't know him,you never meet him or talk to him,you never played this game or anything even near. it's in early prepreprealpha.
when it will come out and you played it,then you can fully trash it.
"you" can say same about DW,but that's utterly stupid,because "you" didn't even played it.
in reality DW is 2000% better than on vids or screens.
skepticism is all good and all BUT you must give everything a chance,otherwise this "everything" will end like most things and ideas in our time - dead in embryo stage,because someone is blind and arrogant,and sadly - in power.

< Message edited by Mad Igor -- 11/27/2012 2:48:55 PM >

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 3:01:07 PM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor
i love when ppl talk about anything like they are allknowing prophets...srsly,stop it.
you don't know him,you never meet him or talk to him,you never played this game or anything even near. it's in early prepreprealpha.
when it will come out and you played it,then you can fully trash it.
"you" can say same about DW,but that's utterly stupid,because "you" didn't even played it.
in reality DW is 2000% better than on vids or screens.

You're right, I don't know him. Nor does ANYONE in the software development industry, much less games development. Zero experience and zero projects to your credit does that.

You're right, I haven't played the game. Nor has ANYONE ELSE. There's nothing to play. There IS NO GAME. It's vapor-ware.

Did I touch a raw nerve? You seem to be rather defensive over my pointing out the facts of his age and complete lack of experience. You should be thankful that I didn't point out that he plans to do it all on his own - a project of that size isn't the sort of thing a wet-behind-the-ears inexperienced programmer should be tackling alone.

note - what the heck is "prepreprealpha"? Do you mean to suggest that slapping together a few pretty pictures counts as a stage in the development cycle? I suppose when he first types "main" that he's in alpha?

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 11/27/2012 3:02:51 PM >

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 6:01:46 PM

Mad Igor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Did I touch a raw nerve?

nope,i'm just sayin' that you should not judge just by wrapper.you didn't saw content.
i don't have high hopes for him,but if he succeed,then that's cool,if not...what do i lose ?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
note - what the heck is "prepreprealpha"?

that is the beginning with hardly any real gameplay

limits is are illusions,everything is possible,you just need to push a button.

< Message edited by Mad Igor -- 11/27/2012 6:05:37 PM >

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Post #: 7

RE: Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 8:37:44 PM

Haree78

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Well when I first viewed the video linked by a Space Strategy site I was immediately put off.

-He is extremely inexperienced. He hasn't spent years learning best practices, good habits and tricks from others in the industry or similar industries, he is going to be using google and perhaps some college training. It isn't enough in my book for me to consider this a sound investment.
-He is doing it on his own. This is outrageously optimistic. He will need others, or to hire people for lots of the game. The game programming part is only about 20%-40% of the game depending on the type of game being made. I'll reiterate he has no experience with any of this stuff. Lets say he does do it all on his own, by the time he has a releasable product of the scale he is talking about it will be 10 years out of date in technology.
-Procedural games sound great but on it's own the game will have no soul, a lot would need to be injected for it to be worthwhile spending time in the game.

The guy is a dreamer or a con artist. I'm sorry that sounds harsh but it's true. I can totally forgive him for being a dreamer at his age but I will not hide from telling others the fact when it's people's money involved. Invest at your own risk.

Regarding Matrix hiring him, there are insane amounts of young guys who want to get in to making games who have grand ideas and some ability in programming, they don't need to be looking at dreamers/con artists on kickstarter for their staff ;)

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/27/2012 11:03:14 PM

Aurelian

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Perhaps he should try to make a fantastic mod for a game. IIRC, that's how the guy who made the Counterstrike mod for Half-Life/Team Fortress got started. IIRC, he was eventually hired by Valve.

But I can't see him being hired by any software dveloper or game designer when he has nothing to show them.

Now, if he wants to get into CGI, the video would be the thing to show.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 12:16:01 AM

radic202

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I tend to agree with Haree78 on many if not all of his comments. I mus say I admire the young developers vigor, eagerness and his big dreams. He is at a young age where he probably has much more impulse then experience and in my book, at his age, that is OK. If only 10% of all on youngsters had a goal and dream like his, I would be super happy. Now I hate space Games where you actually need to fly a ship (up/down/right and left confuses the hell out of me?). I would have no problems in pledging some money to see how far he can take this and you know what? If I lost it or most of it? It would not bother me a bit, at least I gave a kid a chance to make a difference. Heck I would probably even do all the translations for the game if he wanted. As long as he stays strong to his dream (and of course a game I would never play though), I will wish him well.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 12:19:18 AM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor
nope,i'm just sayin' that you should not judge just by wrapper.you didn't saw content.
i don't have high hopes for him,but if he succeed,then that's cool,if not...what do i lose ?

What else am I to judge it by? There IS NOTHING else.

What do you lose? Your kickstarter donation. I'm not sure, but I don't believe there's any legal obligation to do anything with the kickstarter money. He could spend it all on booze and chicks. That's why people look for professional experience. He has nothing to lose, and a bag full of kickstarter cash to win.

Fraud on Kickstarter damages all Kickstarter funding attempts. I for one find it absurd that Kickstarter even allow someone like him to apply for funding - not without some contractual guarantees. Release the cash in stages as he meets goals, fine - but I don't think they do that.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
note - what the heck is "prepreprealpha"?

that is the beginning with hardly any real gameplay

You're being incredibly generous. I don't classify a few screenshots to count for accomplishing -ANY- part of the development cycle. If I used your measure of development progress, then I can make "vroom vroom" noises, push a matchbox toy car around the table and loudly exclaim I'm going to make a car that runs off urine. And by your standards, I'd have accomplished the "prepreprealpha" stage.

Hats off to Haree78 - I hadn't considered the possibility of outright fraud.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor
limits is are illusions,everything is possible,you just need to push a button.

Oddly enough, almost all the MLM shucksters and endless financial fraudsters use the same phrase. Heck, maybe the dude emailing me REALLY IS a Nigerian prince trying to move his billions out of the country. After all, as you say - I don't know him. And I'd REALLY like for it to be true - again, as you say.

Except the push a button part. I'm not sure where you got that. Usually it's blue or red pill. But I suppose buttons could work.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 11/28/2012 12:30:06 AM >

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 12:35:53 AM

Cruis.In

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he's shown far more than david braben and his elite crap.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 12:43:38 AM

Dracus

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space empires was a project game done by one guy at first. It did well until he decided to stop developing after he got married.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 12:55:32 AM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cruis.In

he's shown far more than david braben and his elite crap.

Braben actually does have game programming experience and several titles to boot. Compare that to this kid's zero experience.

I don't intend to speculate on Braben, as it's outside the scope of this thread.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 9:03:09 AM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Dracus

space empires was a project game done by one guy at first. It did well until he decided to stop developing after he got married.

I've never read anything, nor can I find anything, to corroborate either statement -
1. If he (Aaron Hall) did SE1 in 1993 on his own, then kudos to him. However, there's nothing to support this claim. You certain you're not ignoring anyone else?
2. He's credited as the designer in the 2006 SE5 game - which means he did it for 13+ years. I can't find anything to support the "quit because of marriage" claim. Seems to me that the mixed reviews of SE5 and the bags of cash from SF were more influential in his ceasing work on the series. Remember, it's SF intellectual property - if there's going to be a SE6, then Strategy First has to get off their arses and do it.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 9:52:23 AM

IainMcNeil

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What are we talking about here - there are no links.

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Post #: 16

RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 10:51:52 AM

Kayoz

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I think the OP was referring to a Kickstarter project -
"Limit Theory" Kickstarter project

Or so I think... OP's complaint about my evaluation of the project seems to confirm that.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 2:29:33 PM

parusski

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My limit has been reached, by theory at least.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 6:00:23 PM

Mad Igor

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
What else am I to judge it by? There IS NOTHING else.

exactly,nothings(aside from techdemo),that exactly why you should not judge.yet.
donation few buck wont make difference...1-2 candy less,big loss.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
I don't classify a few screenshots to count for accomplishing -ANY- part of the development cycle.

he HAZ,techdemo on kickstarter

quote:

OP's complaint about my evaluation

not sure if "complaint" is the right word,as you are just too pessimistic and dismissive,and i'm trying to tell you,that b4 you have any complains and whatnot form that category,you should know what it is.
you don't need to spend anything at all on it,all you have to do is wait,i don't think that you will lose anything from it.
i started this threat,just to show,that this kid and game MAY have potential,and IF he succeed in his work,then his abilities is above average and can be considered for employing (nope,i'm not his mom,i just think what will he do in real gamedev company)

< Message edited by Mad Igor -- 11/28/2012 6:26:08 PM >

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 6:31:06 PM

Wolfe1759

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Don't really see any reason to "invest" in this.

It is already fully funded thus it is not a case of needing more backers to ensure it is produced.

After a number of less than spectacular recent releases in the space 4X genre (as an example) having a good idea, a creative vision and ambitious plans doesn't by a very long stretch mean that the resultant game is going to be actually any good or even in more than one instance playable.

The developer has got his funding, good luck to him. I'll hold off parting with any of my money until I've read the post-release reviews and seen the forum reactions to the new game, which if it all goes according to plan will be sometime in 2014.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 7:53:27 PM

radic202

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quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

My limit has been reached, by theory at least.

Now that was funny!

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 10:02:25 PM

wodin

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Is there some history with this developer? Seems he has a strong response here and to me it just looks like any other Kickstarter and surely his project is exactly what Kickstarter is there for is it not?

things like peter molyneaux going to kickstarter is something people should be moaning about.

< Message edited by wodin -- 11/28/2012 10:03:15 PM >

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 11:42:25 PM

Haree78

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No history. This is the game world equivalent of a 20 year old offering to make you a house for $300k, electrics, plumbing, decorating, everything and showing you a nice wall he has built. And oh he says he will do all the work himself. Within a year.
Oh did I mention he will make his own bricks? Mix his own cement? Create his own wires and plug sockets? (He is writing the game engine from scratch....)

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 11:56:33 PM

wodin

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Yeah but surely Kickstarter is there for new indy developers to kickstart their projects? Im my eyes it's exactly what KS is there fore..not for some well know developers to use it to start their next project.

Anyway i see no problem at all, if you don't want to back it you don't have too, KS is all about working out whether you can afford it and willing to except that it may never happen. if your not then don't back any KS project whether it's by some new developer or long standing one..even their games may have been canned before, it happens alot. Also many developers with experience release rubbish and don't fulfill their promises.

It just seemed very harsh the comments here for what really is a KS project like 90% of the others.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/28/2012 11:57:25 PM

Kayoz

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor
donation few buck wont make difference...1-2 candy less,big loss.

On a per-capita basis, given the number of people who lost money in Kenneth Lay's scheme (Enron), it's only a few bucks - so it was ridiculous to charge him with fraud. That's your argument.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor
he HAZ,techdemo on kickstarter

Tech demo?!? It's a bloody animated clip. Any graphics artist with a spare afternoon could bang that together.

A video clip is NOT a "tech demo".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor
...you are just too pessimistic and dismissive...

Moi!?! I'm the very soul of optimism, I tell you!

Seriously, he's a punk with no experience and no training, claiming he can do - alone - a project that most seasoned programmers would balk at.

It's possible, maybe he can pull it off. Maybe he's the prodigal son of programming that you imply. Or maybe he's a fraudster who you'll never hear from again once he's collected the Kickstarter money. Which is the more likely?

With all due respect, what's the most important question any job interviewer asks you? Experience. What's the second most important? Training/education. He has bupkis for either. He'd get laughed out of an entry level game programming job - trusting him to do it entirely on his own is sheer nonsense.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Igor
i started this threat,just to show,that this kid and game MAY have potential,and IF he succeed in his work,then his abilities is above average and can be considered for employing (nope,i'm not his mom,i just think what will he do in real gamedev company)

If he can deliver the product he's described, on his own - then he can make his own damned company, and one-finger-salute to working for someone else.

Maybe he can pull this off. Maybe he really can do it. Maybe the Easter Bunny is real, and the Tooth Fairy's cousin, the Pubic Hair Fairy, will visit me tonight. And maybe if I take that self defense course at the Y, I'll step into the cage and lay a beat down on Nick Diaz once it's over. I expect all those described are about equally likely.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/29/2012 1:01:38 AM

parusski

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quote:

ORIGINAL: radic202

quote:

ORIGINAL: parusski

My limit has been reached, by theory at least.

Now that was funny!

Bowing as I exit stage left.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/29/2012 1:32:44 AM

VPaulus

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I've backed this project. I hope he succeeds in doing the game he dreams.
After Chris Roberts "Star Citizen" success, it seems that space combat sims are alive again. I just hope that David Braben also meets success in his Elite:Dangerous, Kickstart project. Personally more than a new Wing Commander I would like to see a true new Elite.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/29/2012 2:31:27 AM

wodin

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Elite on the BBC B 32k back in 82/83 was the first ever computer game I was hooked too...will always be down as my favourite game for that reason..also for the time it was an astonishing piece of work. My save game on the tape after over a years worth of playing nearly everyday was chewed..oh my first ever computer rage..

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/29/2012 3:04:54 AM

VPaulus

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quote:

ORIGINAL: wodin

Elite on the BBC B 32k back in 82/83 was the first ever computer game I was hooked too...will always be down as my favourite game for that reason..also for the time it was an astonishing piece of work. My save game on the tape after over a years worth of playing nearly everyday was chewed..oh my first ever computer rage..

Yes, I too could say, that Elite was the first game that I was really, really hooked... in my case was with a C64. My daily routine for several months was set by the military duty during the day and by killing thargoids at night.
The sense of open world that Elite offered me, was only regained again 15 years later... with Operation Flashpoint.

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RE: Limit Theory - 11/29/2012 7:21:00 AM

Kayoz

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Compared to Forsaken Fortress, the Limit Theory project is a sad and pathetic thing.

9 people, a reasonable set of skills - compared to a solo "I r god of c++" project, it's far more likely to succeed.

Kickstarter is entirely a caveat emptor environment. All I can say, is that my BS meter is off the scale for LT, and only twitching with Forsaken Fortress.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 11/29/2012 8:02:07 AM >

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