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BtR German A/C production - 2/20/2012 10:14:17 PM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline 		I've just begun looking into the German side of BtR, in anticipation of a new pbem game, and was looking over aircraft production side of things. WOW...ahhhh....WOW . I'm lost and don't even know where to start on this. I was wondering if there was any good threads on this topic that someone could point me to or if they can just point me in the right direction on where to start.

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RE: BtR German A/C production - 2/20/2012 10:38:06 PM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline 		You can read this thread http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2293569&mpage=1&key=�
It's a short discussion, but you can find something useful (I think)...
Manage the german production it's crazy. Good luck!

< Message edited by cohimbra -- 2/20/2012 10:44:45 PM >

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 2
RE: BtR German A/C production - 2/20/2012 10:44:13 PM   
CarnageINC


Posts: 2208
Joined: 2/28/2005
From: Rapid City SD
Status: offline 		Thanks for the link sir 

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RE: BtR German A/C production - 11/29/2012 2:45:01 PM   
BIG ERN

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 5/19/2011
Status: offline 		So if I understand correctly [newbie here] if i want to advance production of say the ME262, I switch at least one factory to parts and one to frames..and when enough have been built i will start getting aircraft?
In other words there is no "research" button, just adjust the production?

(in reply to CarnageINC)
Post #: 4
RE: BtR German A/C production - 11/29/2012 2:45:32 PM   
BIG ERN

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 5/19/2011
Status: offline 		I posted this elsewhere but noticed the thread has been inactive for 2 years so |I coppied there questions to here.

I am about to start a PBEM campaign so I have Another newbie question

1] ..what planes should I be building? I mean of existing in the campaign scenario? Should I be switching over ME 109 to FW 190? Ju88 to ME410?? . in other words.. what are the best planes to have. I thought it would be FW190.. and perhaps a good night fighter. I trust your experience will save me some time...

2] ..I have played short scenarios in the game.. and never seen RAF bomber command show up.. yet in some forums I see them mentioned. In the campaign scenarios does the RAF show up..?

3] I also am having difficulty distinguiishing night fighters? Can I assume every plane except 109 and 190s are night fighters and therfore should be avoided using except against unescorted bombers deep in the Reich?

< Message edited by BIG ERN -- 11/29/2012 2:46:32 PM >

(in reply to BIG ERN)
Post #: 5
RE: BtR German A/C production - 11/29/2012 10:28:17 PM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		I don't have time today but I will answer this tomorrow.


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TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

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RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/1/2012 12:43:49 AM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BIG ERN

So if I understand correctly [newbie here] if i want to advance production of say the ME262, I switch at least one factory to parts and one to frames..and when enough have been built i will start getting aircraft?
In other words there is no "research" button, just adjust the production?

You will also need 4 engines. In effect you build a test aircraft. When you have built 100 test aircraft the arrival date is moved up one month.

As I understand it, and I have not been able to confirm this yet, when you complete 300 test aircraft you move it up a second month, 600 gets a third month and so on. Each additional month of advance costs what the previous month cost plus 100.

It is important to note that each different type of factory requires its own research. Thus moving up the ME262A by 4 months does not move up the ME262B at all. Research spent on the FW190A-8 does not move up the FW190D, and even the ME410B-2 doesn't help on the ME410B-2/U which is just a 410B with a 50MM gun in the nose. It has its own factory so it has to be researched separately.

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TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to BIG ERN)
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RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/1/2012 2:07:50 AM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BIG ERN

I posted this elsewhere but noticed the thread has been inactive for 2 years so |I coppied there questions to here.

I am about to start a PBEM campaign so I have Another newbie question

1] ..what planes should I be building? I mean of existing in the campaign scenario? Should I be switching over ME 109 to FW 190? Ju88 to ME410?? . in other words.. what are the best planes to have. I thought it would be FW190.. and perhaps a good night fighter. I trust your experience will save me some time...

This will need a large wall of text to address even partially. In addition, much of what I would put in that wall of text is opinion and thus subject to discussion. Is there enough interest left to support such a discussion?

A short but grossly insufficient answer is that you probably want to migrate towards the FW line as best you can. However you can not just end ME109G-6 production because a stockpile of 500 or more of them is the key that unlocks getting the school and German minor Allied units out of their biplanes and into usable aircraft. Then, also, what would you do with all those DB605A engines.

All production is driven by engines. With a little care you can have excess of every kind of part you need so parts production is not an issue. If the opposition concentrates on assembly factories you can wined up with excess engines for a while but you just use them up when the jet age arrives and you are using 4 engines per airframe for some of your production. Thus, it is best for the Allies to prioritize EFacs and thus essential for you to also base your planing on them.

There are tradeoffs in the night fighters that tend to require you to use several kinds. For instance you can not reasonably change any of what are referred to as the century units to other aircraft types. If you do you stop the computer from ever modifying them and this locks them in to night fighters for the whole war. A VERY Bad thing.

The important thing in night fighters at the start is to get rid of Fug202. It is totally compromised by window. That means no more ME110B-4s.

In bomber destroyers discontinue the ME110 and ME210 lines completely. They are totally out classed by the ME410 and you have it at start. No research necessary.
quote:


2] ..I have played short scenarios in the game.. and never seen RAF bomber command show up.. yet in some forums I see them mentioned. In the campaign scenarios does the RAF show up..?


Get out the Vaseline. Yes they will show up and they will rip you a new one and you can't do ****all about it. They tend to fly only when light level is below 10 (note that for your allied strategy consideration). That means they either fly when the moon is less than 11 or when they can get home before moonrise.

quote:


3] I also am having difficulty distinguishing night fighters? Can I assume every plane except 109 and 190s are night fighters and therefore should be avoided using except against unescorted bombers deep in the Reich?

No, that would be a silly assumption. Get in game, got to the weapon database (a button on main page) and look at the plane list. Type is a sortable column. Spend a LOT of time looking at this list.

Look at maneuver. I figure one point of maneuver difference is worth 5 to 10 experience in a fight. Compare your planes to the allied planes.

Look at guns. Not just gun value, (the single number in the list) select the aircraft and look at the type and number of guns and where they point. Compare penetrations and accuracy. (it helps to think of accuracy more as how much lead is hitting per second than as how straight it shoots)


This is not the wall of text I mentioned at the start. This is a very short and inadequate answer but I can't see writing a 20,000 word essay on German production (with forays into strategy which would also be necessary) if no one is likely to read it.

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TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to BIG ERN)
Post #: 8
RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/1/2012 6:04:27 PM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline 		I'm lurking. Very interesting things here. I say only this: you can (must?)
change the models D.520 and IAR 81M production to model Bf 109Ga-2 or Ga-6;
because this sh*t of airplanes can upgrade only to other few model, and the
better is in my opinion the Ga-2. You can (must?) change the italian model
production to other best fighters (really, the MC.205 Veltro, the G.55/I
Centauro and the Re.2005 Sagittario are good fighters compared to Bf 109,
but you can produce they in little quantity, because they required 2xengine).
About the night fighers, in my experience (vs IA) the Ju 88C6 and the Bf 110G4
(or Bf 110G4/M1) are the best initial models (the best...he shot down 1 bomber
of 100, but the others models are worst). Sorry for my poor english, and if you
have more production info, share it!

PS. the Fw are good planes, but more delicate than I thought, even if used under
20,000 meters, in theory their best maneuver band.

< Message edited by cohimbra -- 12/1/2012 6:21:00 PM >

(in reply to TaggedYa)
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RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/1/2012 8:38:49 PM   
Creeper

 

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From: Germany
Status: offline
Thanks for all the infos, Curt!
Very appreciated..I'm never too old to learn, I guess

(in reply to cohimbra)
Post #: 10
RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/1/2012 9:22:39 PM   
BIG ERN

 

Posts: 29
Joined: 5/19/2011
Status: offline 		thanks guys..confusing but a little clearer. I guess the more I play the clearer it will become.

(in reply to Creeper)
Post #: 11
RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/1/2012 10:24:45 PM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: BIG ERN
3] I also am having difficulty distinguiishing night fighters? Can I assume every plane except 109 and 190s are night fighters and therfore should be avoided using except against unescorted bombers deep in the Reich?


If I understand your question, you have difficulty distinguishing night fighters than
daytime fighters; the method that I say is a bit spartan but effective (at least for
the beginning of the '43 campaign). Click on 'List Air Unit' (key 'U') at the top of
the game screen, you see this list:



Your nightfighters are at the bottom of the list. Hope this help.

< Message edited by cohimbra -- 12/1/2012 10:26:55 PM >

(in reply to BIG ERN)
Post #: 12
RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/1/2012 10:47:55 PM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		@cohimbra

This is an important consideration and has not been hashed out to my knowledge. It deserves its own thread so I will, instead of replying to this here, just start a new thread to discuss the starting production changes that should be made.

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TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to cohimbra)
Post #: 13
RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/2/2012 12:22:08 AM   
cohimbra


Posts: 632
Joined: 10/15/2011
From: Italy
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: TaggedYa
This is an important consideration and has not been hashed out to my knowledge. It deserves its own thread so I will, instead of replying to this here, just start a new thread to discuss the starting production changes that should be made.


Sounds good to me.


< Message edited by cohimbra -- 12/2/2012 12:34:44 AM >

(in reply to TaggedYa)
Post #: 14
RE: BtR German A/C production - 12/2/2012 11:27:38 AM   
TaggedYa

 

Posts: 218
Joined: 10/9/2005
Status: offline 		Sorry Guys. I spent the day at my mothers house and just got home. (4:30 am local)

I will answer tomorrow.

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TaggedYa

The Vociferously Verbose

(in reply to cohimbra)
Post #: 15
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