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RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 3:07:01 PM   
Chickenboy


Posts: 24520
Joined: 6/29/2002
From: San Antonio, TX
Status: offline 		Get a load of the maximum airbase sizes in the Phillipines between Luzon and Northern Borneo.

Palawan: Puerto Princessa max build of 7; Taytay 8
Culion: Max AF 8
Basuanga: Max AF 8. Bonus: You already have a size 3 port here (!)
Calapan: Max AF 8. A little close to Manila (1 hex away), but that would effectively deny him Luzon.

I'd reckon that your opponents haven't garrisoned these islands in much strength.

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RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 3:50:57 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		It does seem they are rocked back on their heels...sending Kaga out there by herself like that. Imagine we went up the West coast of Luzon after taking Taytay on Palawan (level 1 airfield). Look what kind of Hell you could let lose from Northern Luzon. Any base on Luzon would likely need a substantial garrison because we dont really know what they have on Luzon already.




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Post #: 9752
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 3:55:41 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		I think one could predict they would turn lose all the Emperor Brand Kool-aide reserves as well.

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Post #: 9753
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:05:43 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		You find out which one of those 4 airfields on Northern Luzon is ungarrisoned....you land a Marine Raider Bn there by APD...there is no time for prep so you take the 50% disruption but they still take the base...you fly in 100 P-39/40 from Jolo along with aviation support...and the next day you land a division of infantry, AA unit, CD unit by amphibious load.

What could go wrong? Of course you only start to recon while your ships are already on their way...maybe even one day out.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 12/8/2012 4:07:01 PM >

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Post #: 9754
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:20:02 PM   
sprior


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From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		I think JJ might get very cross with us.

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Post #: 9755
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:23:55 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

I think JJ might get very cross with us.



Do you mean "cross" in a bad way?

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 12/8/2012 4:24:03 PM >

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Post #: 9756
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:32:00 PM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
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From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		"Cross" as in "angry".

So, do we still want to go for Palembang or do we want to commit to this act of madness instead?

And if so can I still have the RN back for my Burma ops?

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Post #: 9757
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:32:47 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		All those boys headed for Ceylon are transport loaded, I think. To be any use they would have to disemark and reload as amphibious.

Perth maybe? Or they could transit North of Oz and take off from Darwin.

Shutting down the South China Sea is functionally equivalent to taking Palembang...even worse.

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Post #: 9758
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:42:18 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

All those boys headed for Ceylon are transport loaded, I think. To be any use they would have to disemark and reload as amphibious.

Perth maybe? Or they could transit North of Oz and take off from Darwin.

Shutting down the South China Sea is functionally equivalent to taking Palembang...even worse.



I concur with this .. fundamentally you cut off the entire DEI by sealing the South China Sea. Especally owning Puerto Princesa In my latest PBEM I was much more agressive in my Burma campaign so in Sep 1943 I have Southeast Asia undercontrol but Nimitz has lacked the initiaitve and the PI bases have not been seized . yet .. Anyway I mention this because I have experinced its effectiveness

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Post #: 9759
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:42:29 PM   
sprior


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Status: offline 		Now that PH has fallen they should be able to transit hugging the north coast of Oz to Darwin. We can combat load them there.

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Post #: 9760
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:44:48 PM   
sprior


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From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		How we won the Battle for Australia






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Post #: 9761
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 4:51:10 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
What could go wrong?


I think going to Luzon directly is asking for trouble. Biting off more than you can chew and all those other analogies. The aforementioned islands are likely undefended and cannot be overland counterattacked. JJ's ability to mount a meaningful amphibious counterattack in your game is next to nil-why court disaster going a bridge(head) too far?

Oh, by ra way-some of those bases in N. Luzon will trigger kamikazes. Alas, they won't have access to those before January 1, 1944. Have a nice day.

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RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 5:00:59 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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From: Southern California
Status: offline 		Just doing inventory. USN has 3 fast BB's in theater now. They would certainly be needed because JJ would turn lose Yamato on Northern Luzon. That would free up Repulse and PoW.

South Pac only has one or two undeployed infantry regiments (2 if you count the USMC regt at Derby). I have too many ashore on Sorong (which doesnt really matter much anymore) and near Manado (which is more important).

I think we would need a whole divison for Luzon. Maybe 7th Aus? British 2nd as reserve while she recovers at Port Hedland? (Is a division a she?)

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Post #: 9763
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 5:02:09 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
(Is a division a she?)


Just the British ones.

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Post #: 9764
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 5:46:28 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

Oh, by ra way-some of those bases in N. Luzon will trigger kamikazes. Alas, they won't have access to those before January 1, 1944. Have a nice day.



WHAT??? You are making that up, right?*


*Pretend I didn't read the manual.

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Post #: 9765
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 6:13:14 PM   
Chickenboy


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Status: offline 		7.4.2.3 Kamikazes

Kamikazes are activated if the Allies own a base within 15 hexes* [sic] (traced by sea only) of either Tokyo, Takao or Saigon. However, these will never activate before January 1, 1944.

*The manual was printed with this error, assuming 60 mile hexes. In AE, I believe that this extends to 20 hexes (40 mile hexes) range from these locations.

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Post #: 9766
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 6:20:57 PM   
sprior


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
(Is a division a she?)


Just the British ones.


Have you been watching Priscilla, Queen of the Desert again?

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"History started badly and hav been geting steadily worse."
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Post #: 9767
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 8:03:14 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

7.4.2.3 Kamikazes

Kamikazes are activated if the Allies own a base within 15 hexes* [sic] (traced by sea only) of either Tokyo, Takao or Saigon. However, these will never activate before January 1, 1944.

*The manual was printed with this error, assuming 60 mile hexes. In AE, I believe that this extends to 20 hexes (40 mile hexes) range from these locations.



Uggh...Takao? I think even Palawan (Taytay) might be 20 hexes from Takao. Might as well just get it over with and get 10 months with no Kamikazes.

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Post #: 9768
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 8:07:10 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		By ra way...20x40=800 and 15x60=900

If 900 mi is the standard then it would be 22 or 23 hexes. That might even reach Jolo.

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Post #: 9769
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 8:15:36 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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Status: offline 		I checked it out. Jolo is cool. Palawan is cool at 15 hexes but triggers if it is 20. Southern Luzon is safe but it is too far south to threaten the northern reaches of the South China Sea.

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Post #: 9770
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 8:30:38 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake
Might as well just get it over with and get 10 months with no Kamikazes.


That's the spirit, mate! BANZAI!

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Post #: 9771
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 8:33:28 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

By ra way...20x40=800 and 15x60=900

If 900 mi is the standard then it would be 22 or 23 hexes. That might even reach Jolo.

It's been some time since the discussion has come up, but I recall that it was a fixed number "just because". That fixed number is 20, even if it's not a direct translation in mileage with the 40 vs. 60 mile hex.

At least that's the explanation I remember.

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Post #: 9772
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 9:10:35 PM   
Cap Mandrake


Posts: 23184
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From: Southern California
Status: offline 		If it's 20 hexes then Taytay will trigger kamikazis.

Operation Dewey...first iteration




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Post #: 9773
RE: Sun Damage - 12/8/2012 9:54:23 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

By ra way...20x40=800 and 15x60=900

If 900 mi is the standard then it would be 22 or 23 hexes. That might even reach Jolo.


Actually the hexes are 46 miles I beleive:

8.3.1 Overland Movement:

"Each hex is 46 statute miles ; the unit will stay in its current hex until it has marched 46 statute miles, at which point it will move to the next hex along the path to the unit’s final destination. "

Thus 20*46 = 920 statute miles .. pretty close ... Give or take a 1/2 hex ..

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Post #: 9774
RE: Sun Damage - 12/9/2012 12:32:56 AM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces


quote:

ORIGINAL: Cap Mandrake

By ra way...20x40=800 and 15x60=900

If 900 mi is the standard then it would be 22 or 23 hexes. That might even reach Jolo.


Actually the hexes are 46 miles I beleive:

8.3.1 Overland Movement:

"Each hex is 46 statute miles ; the unit will stay in its current hex until it has marched 46 statute miles, at which point it will move to the next hex along the path to the unit’s final destination. "

Thus 20*46 = 920 statute miles .. pretty close ... Give or take a 1/2 hex ..


That's a much better explanation than mine. Thanks, Crackaces.

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Post #: 9775
RE: Sun Damage - 12/9/2012 11:18:19 AM   
sprior


Posts: 8596
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From: Portsmouth, UK
Status: offline 		Some might say brave, others daring and others foolhardy.

A few questions:
1. How will we keep them supplied with JJ having airbases on either side of our SLoCs?
2. What's to stop JJ reinforcing Luzon and kicking us out?
3. Can I still do my Burma op?

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Post #: 9776
RE: Sun Damage - 12/9/2012 12:44:28 PM   
BBfanboy


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Status: offline 		I fear that your Allied Partner may be using early-war policies - i.e. the British can have their ships back after they are sunk...

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Post #: 9777
RE: Sun Damage - 12/9/2012 1:59:36 PM   
Crackaces


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quote:

How will we keep them supplied with JJ having airbases on either side of our SLoCs?


Supply is soooo overrated in this game ....

One thought about this particular theater of operations .. in my opinion, it is the Solomon's on steroids and I doubt if the IJ will make the mistake of real life not purusing/engaging like Leyte Gulf ....

The good news is that in this game the focus is on the target and not the path to the target. So one thought might be to take CVE's with fighters and guard the convoys? You will end up with big fur ball fights and CAP will leak meaning some CVE's/xAK's are likely to be hit. On the other hand occupying this space means fuel stops and whatever HI the IJ has saved will have to carry him through to the end. Then there is the 1944 pilot tax in scenario #2 that with a stopped HI might send the IJ over the edge.

Just a thought ... Big risk vs. reward situation ..

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Post #: 9778
RE: Sun Damage - 12/9/2012 3:37:22 PM   
Chickenboy


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quote:

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

One thought about this particular theater of operations .. in my opinion, it is the Solomon's on steroids and I doubt if the IJ will make the mistake of real life not purusing/engaging like Leyte Gulf ....


Mostly agree. However, unlike the Solomons, there is an immediate strategic threat to JJ's SLOC. That makes this fight that much more important for both sides to have.

quote:


Just a thought ... Big risk vs. reward situation ..


Yes. There will be blood.

It's a good time for the Arries to do this, IMO. No kamikaze worries for 10 months means that they can secure the left shoulder of their Phillipines endeavour [sic] and cut off the DEI almost entirely from the home islands before then.

This would be more difficult an endeavour [sic] with kamikazes, that's certain. From what I understand they have a seemingly magnetic attraction to escort carriers, thereby mitigating CVE usage in this environment.

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Post #: 9779
RE: Sun Damage - 12/9/2012 4:02:07 PM   
Cap Mandrake


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quote:

ORIGINAL: sprior

Some might say brave, others daring and others foolhardy.

A few questions:
1. How will we keep them supplied with JJ having airbases on either side of our SLoCs?


Good question. The same way Ternate is supplied with Ambon, Kendari, Dili, Koepang, Manado and Sorong still in Jap control. With air power. Chiefly, the B-24. Jolo is already level 3. Preconditions:

--Jolo already level 5 to support heavies.

--Taytay already level 2 and with enough aviations upport for SBD's and P-38's

--both bases >20K suppries. Better 50K+ for Jolo. Fuel at Jolo.

--Some attrition work already done on Luzon airbases (waves hands around). I'm guessing they won't have aviation support at every base.

--Dajangas and Sangi at least level 1

quote:

2. What's to stop JJ reinforcing Luzon and kicking us out?


--Good question. They wont' be able to land in Norhtern Lzuon or Manila so it would have to be SE Luzon. In that case it would have to be Wasp, Yorktown and 3 BB's. I was hoping they would run out of troops.


quote:

3. Can I still do my Burma op?


Can you do it with Vicky, Hermes and the three CVE's in the IO, plus PoW, Resolution and Colorado? I'm thinking use the full Aus I Corps and Br 18th at Ramree and really unhinge their position in Burma.

But we would need Br 2nd for Luzon as 32nd ID is bereft of infantry...or maybe use PP's and free a division from Hawaii.

< Message edited by Cap Mandrake -- 12/9/2012 4:04:20 PM >

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