RE: When are you gonna do promotion?

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RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/13/2012 10:43:23 PM

Darkspire

Posts: 1986
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: pipewrench

Darkspire, What have you done?

....Watching carefully on the sidelines as backseat driving into marketing my way becomes the thread of threads.....
vs

Its always worth chucking on more gas if it looks like the fire might go out

To be honest though I tried Steam and it caused no end of problems with my games and system. Ive got nothing against it except that it wasnt just one game but quite a few, I really liked the things that it opens up for your games like the achievements etc but it just caused to many problems in to many areas to make it worthwhile, I run a tight ship on my PC, you have to in this day and age , and the Steam client was just to nosey in to many areas, like when you click on a Facebook app, it asks for all your details, well at least that asks and you can click no, you dont have that option with Steam and that is what I dont like. Games that I had on disk I also bought on there and found they were running slower or they would become unstable, they never did that when I just installed them from the disk, and as I said it wasnt just one game but quite a few. Ive got the free X Game, Albion Prelude because I bought the X boxset but I wont touch it with a bargepole, no matter how much id love to play it because of Steam. We as PC owners should have the option of what and how we access our games, not be dictated and montiored to for the sake of marketing and stats.

Now can I please go back to winding Kayoz up??

Darkspire

_____________________________

Darkspires's File Repository

(in reply to Pipewrench)

Post #: 31

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 1:35:37 AM

Cruis.In

Posts: 202
Joined: 11/10/2012
Status: offline

so this is a one man project?

leave matrix and kick start! :)

(in reply to ASHBERY76)

Post #: 32

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 3:12:53 AM

ehsumrell1

Posts: 2529
Joined: 8/17/2010
From: The Briar Patch Nebula
Status: offline

REALLY GUYS?

Attacking long time forum members and/or beginning and fueling flamewars?

What ever happened to "all opinions are valid"? Whether we agree or disagree
with what Matrix Games does or doesn't do with their game, or how much it sells,
or what the marketing strategy is (or isn't) IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!

PLEASE, lets spend more time discussing, promoting, modding and PLAYING Distant Worlds
instead of trying to analyze what Erik and Elliot's marketing plan is. Or whether Steam
is viable or not for marketing.

One other thought, if we want more exposure for the game (which would mean more people would
probably join and read the DW forums), quite possibly a more CIVIL atmosphere and respect for
each other would prevail and retain new members. Just a thought from a fellow forum member and
very pleased owner of this game! Hopefully this can end here!

TO ALL!

_____________________________

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...

(in reply to Darkspire)

Post #: 33

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 4:16:13 AM

slovenian89

Posts: 8
Joined: 10/20/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1

REALLY GUYS?

Attacking long time forum members and/or beginning and fueling flamewars?

What ever happened to "all opinions are valid"? Whether we agree or disagree
with what Matrix Games does or doesn't do with their game, or how much it sells,
or what the marketing strategy is (or isn't) IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!

PLEASE, lets spend more time discussing, promoting, modding and PLAYING Distant Worlds
instead of trying to analyze what Erik and Elliot's marketing plan is. Or whether Steam
is viable or not for marketing.

One other thought, if we want more exposure for the game (which would mean more people would
probably join and read the DW forums), quite possibly a more CIVIL atmosphere and respect for
each other would prevail and retain new members. Just a thought from a fellow forum member and
very pleased owner of this game! Hopefully this can end here!

TO ALL!

Why is it necessary to split up forum members based on how long they have been here? I think "Attacking forum members and/or beginning and fueling flamewars?", would be more appropriate for your first sentence. At least to me your original statement makes it seem like attacking "long time" members is a no-no, while attacking newer members is just fine. We are all members here & enjoy the same game, and we should all be treated equally regardless of when we joined (especially considering this game is pretty unknown).

I do agree that we are all entitled to our opinions, differing opinions makes discussion and conversation which is great for a forum. However, I disagree that those things are none of our business. As a consumer & player of their product(s), it does matter to me what they do with the game, as it will affect if I continue buying from them. How much it sells & their marketing strategy is important to me as a consumer as well. It tells me that they are dedicated to their product and intend to continue expanding and gathering more people to enjoy the entertainment they have provided us with. It is our game as much as it is theirs.

May I ask why must the consumers be stuck with promoting the product while the company doesn't seem to put any effort into it? I've tried promoting this game to many of my friends and it failed due to the high price, lack of a demo, and them not knowing this company at all. It kind of sucks not being able to talk about the game with my friends because they aren't playing it. I know the developers looked at Steam before, but I really think it's a good time to look again. Steam Greenlight only costs $100 and it will get views on Steam and will let the developers know if Steam is a good place to sell their game, as developers will get statistics on views, votes, and can have a discussion there with Steam users. I'm not certain of the exact views on Greenlight, but most (if not all) of the games "Greenlit" on Steam thus-far have gotten into the Top 20 Sellers list on Steam, which isn't the easiest thing to do.

On your last thought, I agree completely. I know I lurked around here for a long time before joining for two reasons: members seemed unfriendly & forums weren't very active. I bet you there are a lot of others just like that but haven't taken the step to join yet. I'll tell you right now, those same reasons keep me from buying a game as well, especially when you add the reasons I mentioned in my previous paragraph. I will admit this, I first obtained this game from an "alternative source" for the same reasons I mentioned in this and the previous paragraph. After playing the game for a while, and getting great enjoyment out of it, I decided to purchase the game to support the developers. That whole step could have been avoided if there was a demo, and let me say that most people wouldn't end up buying the game after the first step.

On a final note, I'm not a business expert but I am a gamer and consumer, my opinion related to game marketing is still certainly valid.

(in reply to ehsumrell1)

Post #: 34

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 6:49:25 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
Kayoz "the arrogant".

Hrmm? I'm "arrogant"?

Let's get this straight -
Your position: You know better than Erik and other Matrix staff what business decisions will produce the most profit for Matrix and Code Force.
My position: I do not know what is best, and trust that Matrix is making the best decisions for themselves and Code Force.

And you call me arrogant?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
...hasn't got a glue about business and hence thinks Matrix knows all.

I can't comment on your chemical recreational activities. Suffice to say, that it might explain your irrationality.

As for business, you have already demonstrated your grasp of business practice in your previous confusion with the terms "sales", "revenue" and "profit". It seems you haven't learned anything since our last discussion.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
1) Quote from Paradox studio manager Johan

I fail to see what achievements has to do with Matrix profitability.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
2) And corporate sales Shams:

He says nothing about increased profit - only revenue.

You don't actually believe that Steam sales and a game's placement on Steam's high-profile list is done purely at the request of the seller? Steam's own FAQ seems to indicate that there are additional charges associated with selling on steam - which may very well include additional charges/revenue cuts for placement in high visibility Steam promotions.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Steam FAQ
http://www.steampowered.com/steamworks/FAQ.php
7. What other fees come out of my revenue share?

There are some specific adjustments made depending on such things as fraud and returns and these are outlined more fully in our distribution agreement that we will send to you if your game is going on Steam. We do not make deductions for marketing or bandwidth.

Again, there are no specifics. But every promotion has associated costs - and the person who does have that information - Erik - has decided it isn't such a great deal. Yet somehow you know better, despite having no information of the Steam-Matrix negotiations.

Hrmm... and I'm the arrogant one?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
3) And from Frogboy (Elemental:
<snip>
These are all comments from "niche" game sellers. And just a small sample of proof of steam being a good platform for niche games.

I'm afraid that I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that Frogboy is shouting accolades of Steam. He seems to be quite critical of the lack of transparency from Steam and their like in releasing information that could be useful to developers in determining the number of sales they might expect.

I really have to ask - did you actually read Frogboy's post?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
Nobody knows for sure, not Matrix, Erik, or Kayoz.

Nope, I don't know. But I trust that Erik/Matrix can make an educated and informed decision. I contend that they (Matrix) would not have lasted as long as they have in this business if they were not astute in their business decisions.

You, on the other hand, cannot tell the difference between "profit" and "sales".

I think I'm quite justified in having more confidence in Erik's business judgment than yours.

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Velihopea)

Post #: 35

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 6:54:17 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire
Now can I please go back to winding Kayoz up??

Naughty boy!

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Darkspire)

Post #: 36

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 6:59:13 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ehsumrell1
IS NONE OF OUR BUSINESS!

That's my position in a nutshell.

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to ehsumrell1)

Post #: 37

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 8:00:07 AM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Kayoz
Hrmm? I'm "arrogant"?

Yes, and everybody else knows it but you.

quote:

I fail to see what achievements has to do with Matrix profitability.

You fail to see the point of the post it seems. Did you even read it, or was it too hard a reality to grasp? You again took the detail you could comment something sarcastically about and (unconciously) missed the whole point.

quote:

I'm afraid that I don't understand how you come to the conclusion that Frogboy is shouting accolades of Steam. He seems to be quite critical of the lack of transparency from Steam and their like in releasing information that could be useful to developers in determining the number of sales they might expect. I really have to ask - did you actually read Frogboy's post?

Now I have to laugh. YOU again missed completely how this post by frogboy is relevant in this discussion. Yes, he refers that ALL distributors should be more open on the sales figures so that DEVELOPERS could make more informed decisions. Point being: Steam is a very good distribution platform, but alas the DEVELOPERS do not now the extent of it and BECAUSE THAT THEY CANNOT MAKE VERY INFORMED DECISIONS because there is huge lack of information available for decisionmaking! Frogboy=game developer, and not a small 1 man at that.

Quote: "Right now, game developers too often feel like they�re playing the lottery and that�s not a healthy way to run a business."
So.. please read/think again.

quote:

I can't comment on your.. LINK..

You really think I would open that?

quote:

He says nothing about increased profit - only revenue.

Again you demonstrate that you know nothing of business. Clear links with clear message, and still you refuse to see the point. I though we were already clear on this: I know my business accounting, you are just barking without any experience or education in it. I would like to challenge you to answer some questions like "What can you say about the links between income accounting and other parts of business accounting" but alas, google is invented, you have all the time and it would become completely OT (not that it would bother you). I'm tempted though because you clearly have no idea, I have, and you insist otherwise.

quote:

As for business, you have already demonstrated your grasp of business practice in your previous confusion with the terms "sales", "revenue" and "profit". It seems you haven't learned anything since our last discussion...You, on the other hand, cannot tell the difference between "profit" and "sales".

You are repeating yourself. I could tell you a more lot than that OT.

quote:

I think I'm quite justified in having more confidence in Erik's business judgment than yours.

I understand your position: You trust MAtrix to know best (for code force). There is a lot on that I could comment sarcastically about and nitpick on. Though all of it would not be totally fair towards Matrix and Erik, because I think they are quite sincere (but not super-people with sixth sense)

I also HOPE the same as you and HOPE DW is getting the best out of its success (as a game) as it can. But I'm not as blue eyed as you about on how certain that decision is. Let's hope you are right and I'm wrong.

Usually, if a wrong decision is made, it becomes apparent in feedback. A lot of people (not knowing the previous feedback) express the same point again and again. It should ring some bells. Not that it would be proof of a wrong decision.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 38

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 8:30:33 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
Point being: Steam is a very good distribution platform, but alas the DEVELOPERS do not now the extent of it and BECAUSE THAT THEY CANNOT MAKE VERY INFORMED DECISIONS because there is huge lack of information available for decisionmaking! Frogboy=game developer, and not a small 1 man at that.

He's not talking about Steam. He's talking about the PC as a gaming platform.

Look at the opening paragraph - "If you�re a game developer trying to decide whether to make a game for the PC, XBox, Wii U, PS3, iPad, Android, etc. knowing the likely sales outcome is critical. And yet, even at this stage, it�s very difficult to have an idea of how well a game will do on a target platform.". Platform == operating system.

Second paragraph - "What is needed is some sort of metric that lets would-be developers gauge what their prospective return on investment is if they are successful on that platform.". Again, he's referring to the PC/XBox/Wii/etc as platform choices.

Third paragraph - he cites iPad sales - "But if my game can make it into the top 10 seller on a given platform by selling only a few hundred units for a given time period, that�s not a good sign to me.". Again, he's referring to the decision to develop a game for the iPad - the iPad being a platform.

Then in the paragraph you refer to, he opens with "For all the shouts that �PC gaming is d0med�" - and goes on to talk about GC2 doing $1m in sales, then goes on to say "That strikes me as a pretty healthy platform." - it seems pretty clear that he's referring to PC gaming as a platform.

Next paragraph - "But until that developer has taken the plunge on a particular platform, there is no readily available way for them to know what kinds of sales their game can expect." - how the hell can Steam be the platform and have sentence make any sense?

You clearly have problems with your reading comprehension. Steam is clearly not the "platform" he's referring to.

I rest my case. You don't know what you're talking about.

< Message edited by Kayoz -- 12/14/2012 8:37:09 AM >

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Velihopea)

Post #: 39

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 8:55:29 AM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

You clearly have problems with your reading comprehension.I rest my case. You don't know what you're talking about.

I know I'm throwing my energy against a brick wall here, but again: I know he is talking about platforms and I know what that means. Again you are just picking what suits you. It is rather insulting that you again and again explain basic stuff like that.

Many times you have asked of any proof of steam as a healthy platform. There it is in clear figures and still you skip it. There is a small strategy game developer (+the other links) talking about "the steam factor" and complaining the lack of visibily to make informed decisions and still you ignore it. What kind of proof do you need? Direct message addressed to you, with exact figures and signed by all the distributors in the business?

You have your belief and as believers go, there is never enough evidence to prove you wrong. Yes, we can rest the case again until the next unhappy newcomer brings it up. Just put down the "last word" and we will be done with this.

EDIT: yes, I wrongly used the term "distribution platform", the right term would be "distribution software"? You love your terms so please correct me on that...
EDIT2: "Steam is a digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer and communications platform developed by Valve Corporation." On further examination: I wasn't using wrong terms, you were just nitpicking, please do NOT correct me

< Message edited by Velihopea -- 12/14/2012 9:22:45 AM >

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 40

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 9:52:37 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
I know I'm throwing my energy against a brick wall here, but again: I know he is talking about platforms and I know what that means.

Clearly you don't.

He wasn't saying Steam is a good distribution channel - he said that the PC is a good platform to develop a game for.

Your original post said, "These are all comments from "niche" game sellers. And just a small sample of proof of steam being a good platform for niche games." - contrary to what Frogboy says - that the PC is a good platform - he does not go into whether or not Steam is a good channel for a game developer to sell his product. He says nothing of the sort that you imply.

That gives us two choices - You misunderstood Frogboy's post. Or deliberately misrepresented him.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
Many times you have asked of any proof of steam as a healthy platform. There it is in clear figures and still you skip it. There is a small strategy game developer (+the other links) talking about "the steam factor" and complaining the lack of visibily to make informed decisions and still you ignore it. What kind of proof do you need? Direct message addressed to you, with exact figures and signed by all the distributors in the business?

Again, there you go misrepresenting or misinterpreting me.

My position is that Steam isn't the land of milk and honey that you make it out to be. You repeatedly present "facts" which turn out to be vacuous and worthless. Anecdotal statements and vague comments on sales - with nothing on profit. Your so-called business studies have taught you that turning a profit is the point of a business, right? But perhaps you haven't gotten that far, since your previous posts have demonstrated a lack of understanding of the difference between "revenue" and "profit".

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
You have your belief and as believers go, there is never enough evidence to prove you wrong.

You have yet to produce one iota of evidence. All you have presented are anecdotes and conjecture. If I weigh your so-called evidence you base your decisions on - against what Erik has available to him - the outcome should be obvious.

I really wonder where you get off second-guessing Matrix's decisions when you have no facts - no evidence - to indicate that Matrix's decision was wrong? Arrogance? Hubris? Feeble-mindedness?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
EDIT2: "Steam is a digital distribution, digital rights management, multiplayer and communications platform developed by Valve Corporation." On further examination: I wasn't using wrong terms, you were just nitpicking, please do NOT correct me again.

In that case, you deliberately misrepresented Frogboy's post. He did not praise Steam. He did not say it was a wonderful channel to sell his games. He only said that the PC is a good platform to develop for - and referred to Steam sales as one quantifiable source for sales figures. Nowhere in his post did he say "Steam has me rolling in cash". He said nothing of the sort. But since you insist you know the "platform" he we referring to - and understood his post - then you deliberately misrepresented his statements. That, to use a word commensurate with your comprehension level, is commonly called A LIE.

I have no need to correct you again. It's quite clear that you're wrong and trying to wriggle out of your most recent display of your obviously feeble grip of the English language.

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Velihopea)

Post #: 41

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 10:19:01 AM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

In that case, you deliberately misrepresented Frogboy's post. He did not praise Steam. He did not say it was a wonderful channel to sell his games ... is commonly called A LIE.

I should let this go but I can not, I'm not in that a good mood today as to let a too common internet-forum-flamer just repeat _lines_ to make them true. He talked about platforms in the concept of PC,Xbox etc (I know what those are, mind you, as do 99,9 percent of gamers). Anyone with any sense can read from Frogboy's post (and more of Paradox comments, which you happily choose to ignore at this point) that he praises steam (as well as PC as a platform).

I wrote:
"These are all comments from "niche" game sellers. And just a small sample of proof of steam being a good platform for niche games. And both from companies that have previously been quite anti-steam (before going steam) and had their own priviledged sales platform (GG,Impulse) to bad effect."
Nothing you have "argued" has changed this. Nothing. They are just empty words even if carefully written in good English with nice terms and a few "greetings" between the lines (or linked).

EDIT: This is useless, the links are there and anyone can read them. Let them. I'm again dropping this conversation now. And hope that you cannot flame me into replying again (in this thread at least).

< Message edited by Velihopea -- 12/14/2012 10:27:12 AM >

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 42

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 10:38:09 AM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

Slovenian89: Good post. I do think that Matrix is trying to promote the game, but I think (but do not know) that their resources & policies are not right.

(in reply to slovenian89)

Post #: 43

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 10:40:14 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
...he praises steam (as well as PC as a platform).

Quote the sentence(s) where he praises Steam as being a wonderful sales channel, as you contend.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
I wrote:
"...a small sample of proof of steam being a good platform for niche games."

Where's this proof that you refer to? Point to the sentence(s) in Frogboy's post that says this.

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Velihopea)

Post #: 44

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 10:49:54 AM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

"Galactic Civilizations II, a game released 6 years ago and is almost certainly in the top 100 best sellers on Steam has done over $1 million in the past year alone on that platform."

What has he have to do to convince you? Repeat exactly three times "Praise to Steam, Praise to Steam, Praise to Steam".

And this is just one of the links. Paradox said, quote, "And its not worth it for us to make our own system for the 2-3% who don't buy games at steam" and later on
Forumite: "Finally I'm not alone in this ocean of baseless steam hatred."
Johan : "Its a small pond really, but some very loud fish in it."

I would like to end this discussion with that sentence, but do know thats a baseless hope.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 45

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 11:14:05 AM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
"Galactic Civilizations II, a game released 6 years ago and is almost certainly in the top 100 best sellers on Steam has done over $1 million in the past year alone on that platform."

What has he have to do to convince you? Repeat exactly three times "Praise to Steam, Praise to Steam, Praise to Steam".

That's a non-judgmental statement of Steam sales figures. He did not say "good", nor did he say "great". He simply quoted sales figures - that's all. Any positive connotation in his statement is entirely of your imagination.

He could have quoted Amazon or WalMart sales figures if he had them - and by your argument, he'd be praising them.

You have failed to support your previous statement that Frogboy praised Steam as a distributor. He did not.

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Velihopea)

Post #: 46

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 11:22:21 AM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

You have failed to support your previous statement that Frogboy praised Steam as a distributor. He did not.

You truly are something ... If there is a slightest chance of misinterpretation you just take it, do you? What was wrong with "let everybody read it themselves and make their own mind" suggestion?

Well, what you say in case of Paradox? On that you have been awfully quiet. I'm interested to see how you can change THAT one around. Are percentages too vague presentation form for you?

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 47

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 12:33:47 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
You truly are something ... If there is a slightest chance of misinterpretation you just take it, do you? What was wrong with "let everybody read it themselves and make their own mind" suggestion?

Don't blame me for pointing out YOUR misrepresentation of Frogboy's post. That's your problem - not mine.

If you don't want your posts to be exposed to be misleading or fraudulent - then don't make such absurd statements that are so easily shot down.

Sure, everyone can read it for themselves. I just like to exercise my community spirit. I take joy in saving them having to read through your drivel and the linked post by Frogboy - and the time/trouble they will have to go to, to see how fatuous your claims are. Ain't I a sweetie?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
Well, what you say in case of Paradox? On that you have been awfully quiet. I'm interested to see how you can change THAT one around. Are percentages too vague presentation form for you?

What of it? His (baseless) assessment is that 2-3% of people won't buy a game under any circumstances if it's released exclusively on Steam, and that it's not worthwhile for him to develop an achievements system to accommodate those potential customers.

How does that affect Matrix's sales? None at all. Matrix doesn't implement achievements in their games. Matrix isn't losing anything (of those 2-3%) by not releasing on Steam.

I fail to see how his statement has any relevance.

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Velihopea)

Post #: 48

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 1:02:12 PM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

If you don't want your posts to be exposed to be misleading or fraudulent - then don't make such absurd statements that are so easily shot down.

They were not shot down, it was all just YOUR imagination and a lively one at that. And I believe that only Darkspire has the stamina and wickedness required to follow this discussion this far, so you are doing pointless job and a bad one at that.

quote:

How does that affect Matrix's sales? None at all. Matrix isn't losing anything (of those 2-3%) by not releasing on Steam. I fail to see how his statement has any relevance.

Your failure to understand the text again. Let me try to make this one (at least) clear:
- He really has the figures of true sales. They have sold their games on multiple distribution platforms. He has the outcome of those sales in clear figures. No mistakes or assumptions there. The outcome is expressed clearly: only 2-3 percent is buying their games from other platforms.

And your following rambling proves my point that discussing with you on this topic is pointless. Why have we discussed for one page about the nature of steam in "Frogboy" link if the outcome of that discussion, even if you had had the spine to confess that I'm right, would have been nevertheless: "It doesn't matter at all"

Just pointless nitpicking from your part all the time.

You could have just said: "Matrix and all it's products are totally different from anything out there. Anything that happens in other parts of the gaming industry has no meaning to Matrix at all."
Then I would have understood that there is really nothing to discuss about with you unless Matrix go steam and publishes their sales figures (and then again this discussion would be pointless). I would actually be really interested to hear the sales figures of "Unity of command" by platform. It's the first Matrix game on Steam that is not niche^3. I would wager the result is that at some point in near future Matrix is taking Steam more seriously. At least with its more mainstream titles.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 49

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 1:37:49 PM

Kayoz

Posts: 1516
Joined: 12/20/2010
From: Timbuktu
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
They were not shot down

Sooooo.... showing that you completely misrepresented Frogboy's post isn't a shoot-down? You're in denial.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
only 2-3 percent is buying their games from other platforms.

That's not what he said. Go back and read his post - read it for what's written, not what you want to see.

You're seriously asserting that Steam has 97-98% dominance of the games market?

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
...even if you had had the spine to confess that I'm right, would have been nevertheless

I don't have a problem if you're right. The problem is - you aren't. You haven't been correct. Not in your "8 facts" list. Not with your Frogboy statement. Not with your crazy 97-98% market share assertion. You're consistently wrong time and time again.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Velihopea
You could have just said: "Matrix and all it's products are totally different from anything out there. Anything that happens in other parts of the gaming industry has no meaning to Matrix at all."

Nope. I never said that.

It's a business decision. Decisions are made with the information available to achieve the desired outcome. Matrix has that information and has come to a decision. You have no information (just conjecture and lies) - and come to a different conclusion.

Informed v uninformed decision - I think the likelihood of who's "right" is obvious.

_____________________________

�That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.� ― Christopher Hitchens

(in reply to Velihopea)

Post #: 50

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 3:51:47 PM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

His (baseless) assessment is that 2-3% of people won't buy a game under any circumstances if it's released exclusively on Steam, and that it's not worthwhile for him to develop an achievements system to accommodate those potential customers.

Is that how you "understood" it? You are dreaming man, just plain dreaming. He wouldn't have any number of that. And he clearly pointed out that he has the numbers. You are really a way out there in your own world.

quote:

You haven't been correct. Not in your "8 facts" list. Not with your Frogboy statement. Not with your crazy 97-98% market share assertion. You're consistently wrong time and time again.

You cannot see truth even when it's brought right on your face. This is somehow sad, but again proves my point.

quote:

It's a business decision. Decisions are made with the information available to achieve the desired outcome. Matrix has that information and has come to a decision

So now we are getting to the root (again).

Quote Frogboy: "Right now, game developers too often feel like they�re playing the lottery and that�s not a healthy way to run a business."

You can see a single lottery ticket as "the truth" that the decision is based on. Matrix knows the costs of steam, yes. But the most important questions are: How many units would DW sell on steam? How niche DW really is and would it be grapping new customer through steam and to what extent?

And with these questions you would have to project sales of similar titles on steam and still go awry a lot. One indicator of this could also be all these newcomers who wonder why they haven't heard of DW before?

Or as Matrix clearly has already done: put some games on steam and see how they sell. This is the best way and we will see what "Unity of Command" tells. But then again you have to make the assumption that UoC=DW.

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 51

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 4:07:12 PM

Velihopea

Posts: 68
Joined: 5/26/2012
Status: offline

quote:

That's not what he said. Go back and read his post - read it for what's written, not what you want to see. You're seriously asserting that Steam has 97-98% dominance of the games market?

Paradox games sold. Yes. Paradox has stated this also before (then it was 95%), and no, I'm not digging up any more links to you, because clearly you can shut your eyes from even the most evident of things. Just by rolling around it and twisting and turning. Waste of my time, clearly.

One loud fish you are. There were 38958 registered forumites in Matrix forums with most users ever online of 80590. And 5000000 peaktime players on steam today. There are some facts for you my friend. Just that you know the size of your pond.

< Message edited by Velihopea -- 12/14/2012 4:08:58 PM >

(in reply to Kayoz)

Post #: 52

RE: When are you gonna do promotion? - 12/14/2012 4:28:31 PM

Erik Rutins

Posts: 37503
Joined: 3/28/2000
From: Vermont, USA
Status: offline

Hi Everyone,

I've responded to multiple threads like this one in the past. I understand and appreciate the passion of DW fans that it get the widest possible audience, the greatest possible promotion, etc. I can only say that we share your passion and we are hard at work behind the scenes to ensure the brightest possible future for DW. Your feedback is appreciated and I assure you it is taken into consideration in our planning.

Locking this up now as all of these seem to eventually end up the same way with folks on opposite sides.

Regards,

- Erik

_____________________________

Erik Rutins
CEO, Matrix Games LLC