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RE: FPG2 News! - 12/21/2012 3:59:18 PM

Mad Russian

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Since I created the maps I can tell you that great pains were taken to allow players to differentiate elevation changes at a glance. Even in deep forest.

Did I mention there is deep forest on some maps?

The graphics on the maps are substantially different from FPG. Those maps were beautiful but hard to play on. You had to get help from the elevation tools etc. to determine the lay of the land. FPRS is much more elevation friendly at a glance.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/21/2012 4:02:51 PM >

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RE: FPG2 News! - 12/21/2012 8:42:48 PM

Plodder

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

What's funny is that I read "Red Army" after I had the scenarios already set. I think you'll find the FPRS version of the fight for the city much different.

Good Hunting.

MR

*Spoiler below*

If you're playing the Russians, you'd certainly hope so....

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Post #: 92

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/22/2012 3:16:30 AM

wodin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Panta2

I like the graphics, simple and functional, very much like those in the good boardgame maps. The closer to a tactical map, the better; in TacOps I and some chaps used to play with real maps created with the editor and the feeling was quite different.

Well boardgame art has come along way recently and many games have beautiful art and still functional on the their maps\boards. Looking at the screenshot I feel some work could still be done to give it that lovely on the eye yet functional look.

The Battle in Normandy by GMT has a superb map. Bloody April Air War over Arras another amazing map. Next war :Korea again a beautiful map. ALso red Winter another lovely map. I'd like to see more subdued colours, the crops need some work I feel to blend in abit better and the city\urban definitely could do with some work. We can still have function and look great at the same time. The map hasn't won me over and I hope it's mod friendly, though it's becoming a pain to have to mod maps in most releases. Not sure why boardgames these days seem to get it so right yet PC wargame maps struggle.

GGWITE had a lovely map for a PC game and so doesn Command Ops especially the screenies fro the more tacticla game Bill is making, but it's a rare thing to see

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=167&hl=en&client=aff-maxthon-newtab&hs=TNb&affdom=simhq.com&sa=X&tbo=d&channel=t2&biw=1396&bih=758&tbm=isch&tbnid=j7CGbEX5tsP75M:&imgrefurl=http://blog.livedoor.jp/nightstork/archives/52572234.html&docid=CpxCgnRNSdF0gM&imgurl=http://livedoor.blogimg.jp/nightstork/imgs/d/0/d046448c.jpg&w=1280&h=720&ei=AyPVUIj5BaSA0AXFnYHYBw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=106&vpy=384&dur=151&hovh=168&hovw=300&tx=99&ty=123&sig=104871117942521838166&page=6&tbnh=142&tbnw=251&ndsp=39&ved=1t:429,r:75,s:100,i:229

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=aff-maxthon-newtab&hs=2iG&affdom=vrsimulations.com&sa=X&tbo=d&channel=t2&biw=1396&bih=758&tbm=isch&tbnid=tMJizm97iFAwJM:&imgrefurl=http://www.armchairgeneral.com/the-battle-for-normandy-boardgame-review.htm&docid=QetTS7NaJhmG4M&imgurl=http://www.armchairgeneral.com/wordpress/wp-content/gallery/battle-for-normandy/battle-for-normandy-01.jpg&w=1024&h=768&ei=OSPVUJH_D6S80QW7h4CoAw&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=761&vpy=389&dur=1705&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=159&ty=106&sig=104871117942521838166&page=1&tbnh=126&tbnw=187&start=0&ndsp=29&ved=1t:429,r:18,s:0,i:145

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&client=aff-maxthon-newtab&hs=rlG&affdom=piratebayproxylist.com&sa=X&tbo=d&channel=t2&biw=1396&bih=758&tbm=isch&tbnid=dWxKurTlITKrAM:&imgrefurl=http://boardgamegeek.com/thread/876552/bloody-april-1917-planes-fly-over-arras-again&docid=p0fQY-gl_XdjdM&imgurl=http://cf.geekdo-images.com/images/pic1449081_md.jpg&w=500&h=375&ei=6CPVUPqkF8LM0AWFs4CYBA&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=688&vpy=313&dur=462&hovh=194&hovw=259&tx=150&ty=126&sig=104871117942521838166&page=1&tbnh=138&tbnw=195&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:27,s:0,i:179

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/image/1238125/red-winter?size=original

< Message edited by wodin -- 12/22/2012 3:24:33 AM >

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RE: FPG2 News! - 12/22/2012 4:26:03 AM

CapnDarwin

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The maps for release are how they need to be to work with the auto-map values routine in the game. As we will discuss in greater detail next month, you will be able to do your own maps. When we are making 20+ maps we needed to have the auto-map stuff working to cut down on development time. They are quite functional as they stand and once we get screen shots of full maps and battles taking place I don't think "simplified" look will be that much of an issue.

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Post #: 94

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/22/2012 2:20:01 PM

Mad Russian

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Well, I guess if map graphics are important enough that you want us to stop what we are doing and go back and redo the graphics we could do that.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 95

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/22/2012 2:37:51 PM

junk2drive

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Computer wargames with hexes have been around for nearly 40 years. I think that every possible graphic has been used and someone's IP. The best a game company can do is use something they already own or come up with something new. Then make it moddable so that the fans can use some other work.

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Post #: 96

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/22/2012 6:53:23 PM

Hexagon

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I understand your point with graphics as STOP for a game BUT one thing is add functional graphics well done and other this, i know about a game (that you can buy here) that is made by a single guy and he leave graphics in hands of other guy and he alone do a great job with them at the point i dont need wait for a mod to have great graphics in stock game and he do unit graphics because i supose that you are going to use the FPG unit photos.

Dont understand me bad but when first react to first pic is that map looks a little poor... specially urban terrain in a game that cover war in a country with a lot of urban terrain... i really find the FPG maps good enough for example here.

I wait to see more info/pics but first impresion is that game needs better map graphics.

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Post #: 97

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/22/2012 10:20:42 PM

Mad Russian

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One thing to understand is that there is a trade off for everything. This game was going to have about 4 generic maps. Instead I made 25 maps using Google Earth. We redid the graphics twice. We could keep redoing them but it takes a long time to make corrections to 25 maps. We can either use the graphics we came up with and finish the game or go back and redo the graphics again.

It's been my experience that nothing we do will please everyone. I'm saying we won't try but at some point this has to be what we consider to be a "best effort" for the time we have and get it out so you can play it. If we don't it will never be ready because I can find things that I'll never be 100% happy with. That doesn't even count Rob, the Capn or any of you.

I would tell you at the moment the graphics are what they are. A lot went into these maps. All of them were made from scratch, hex by hex, and several of them were done multiple times as we made graphics changes. They are not the works of art that FPG maps were. They are tremendously more functional and with 6 times as many of them.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/22/2012 10:22:04 PM >

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RE: FPG2 News! - 12/22/2012 10:40:00 PM

wodin

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Mr and Capt please don't take any if this to heart..we all know you've put alot of work into it. I'm sure aslong as it;s possible to mod to our taste it will be fine. Boardgame designers hire artists to do the counters and maps who on the whole do a superb job and we understand that small wargame developers aren't necessarily artists and do their best. I like my maps not overly cluttered or busy but be easy on the eyes and look like they blend in rather than an icon placed within a hex as such which is my problem with the crop icons I'd rather they look more shall we say blended and natural within the hex. Also I'd prefer the city hex to be either a fair few houses in streets or something again abit less of a geometric maze they look like at the moment. Again these are things someone will mod I'm sure. Maybe me if I have time.

Though please MR and Capt don't take any of this badly..it's always the way when the first screenshot is shown people start to say what they think can be improved....which I imagine can be disheartening.

Will it be possible to change the terrain art? Like redo the crops or cities etc.. or are they all handrawn maps? It look mor elike to has a terrain bitmap we can alter similar to the HPS games..

I will say though the screenshot is still alot better than many other PC wargame maps I've seen..

< Message edited by wodin -- 12/22/2012 10:44:48 PM >

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RE: FPG2 News! - 12/22/2012 10:55:03 PM

Mad Russian

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Don't mistake my comments Wodin. I'm just explaining that there are priorities in making a game. That no game will ever please everybody. At some point we have to say the graphics do what we want them to and the rest of the game needs finishing.

If we don't do that you never get a game from us. What we've been trying to do is explain that while some will think the graphics are ugly others won't. Or will accept that they are functional and the game plays well which is more important since graphics can be modded and code can't.

All the map graphics can be modded.

Good Hunting.

MR

< Message edited by Mad Russian -- 12/22/2012 10:56:58 PM >

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RE: FPG2 News! - 12/23/2012 1:09:06 AM

Panta2

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It is an impossible task to keep everybody satisfied. Some players like some specific kind of map art, some others a totally different approach. Personally I prefer military maps (1:25,000 or 1:50,000) but I can understand that not many people can easily read military maps. I made a few maps for TacOps using real maps, most people in the TacOps list are or have been in the military and I have to say that they did't care much for map art, and some of them contributed with some excellent ones based on military maps. We made some Fulda Gap-like campaigns and CPX with real maps of the area. And using the map-making tool kindly provided by TacOps designer, Major Holdridge, wasn't an easy task, by any means. If the maps are going to be moddable, that solves the problem, IMO.

< Message edited by Panta2 -- 12/23/2012 1:12:50 AM >

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Post #: 101

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/23/2012 10:51:24 AM

Hexagon

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Well, my biggest problem is that when i see something i find interesting or i like it try find things i dont like or i think are not at same level to improve it.

Maybe the most disgusting thing in the pic is the urban terrain (other is not bad at all), is one of the most poor urban terrains i see in a game. I am not a board game player but i see AARs where art here is very good, usually better than in PC wargames, maybe when we see the full image with counters+on map symbols the urban terrain is less visible but as is now for me is poor and i never like depend of external game mods to improve something i dont like, 50% because maybe never appear a mod to solve it and 50% because i pay for the game and wait a minimap quality in art... maybe game is great and best on his level but this is not 80-90s and a little work in graphics is necesary.

Many times i feel like "Davos Seaworth" loyal but not blind and with a big mouth

< Message edited by Hexagon -- 12/23/2012 10:52:04 AM >

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RE: FPG2 News! - 12/24/2012 3:13:01 AM

Mad Russian

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I'll fix that for you Hexagon. I can at least do that much for you. I won't post any more screen shots so you won't have to look at the graphics.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 103

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/24/2012 11:05:33 AM

Hexagon

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Thanks for the attention and good idea, better dont show me more "targets" i have a great stock of HEAT complains

Oooo a little question, is planed add some kind of discount to FPG owners??? real thing is i plan buy on this holidays FPG but with FPG2 on the way... if as in other games i buy here add a discount for 2nd versions (i remember now advanced tactics where Gold version give owners a discount) buy FPG is interesting for me.

Thanks.

PD: when you say 4 nations in game you refer to 4 nations with specific hardware no??? because a friend say me that FPG has 5 nations not 4, West and East Germany, USA, UK and Soviets.

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Post #: 104

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/24/2012 3:59:01 PM

CapnDarwin

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Hexagon,

There are no East Germans in FPG. Just Soviets, US, UK and West Germans. We do plan to expand and have East Germany, Poland, Canada, Netherlands, and a few others down the road. I'm sure we will see other stuff as well once folks get to modding things too.

Discounts. That is a Matrix/Slitherine thing. My guess is probably not since these are two very different games, but we'll have to wait some weeks and see.

Yes the Urban terrain is a bit tough to look at, but we had to find a color that did not trigger the in game map reader with a false type. That took a few tries and also drove MR even madder at times. As we said above there are always trades to be made when doing a game. At times you have to abstract things to make them fit the scale and scope of what you are doing. And if the maps really bother you there will be ways to spin your own down the road.

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Post #: 105

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/24/2012 5:45:13 PM

Hexagon

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Ummm he say me that appear NVA... appear the Soviet flag and East Germany flag in WP brief.

Apart this yes, expand nations in an expansion or add-on is a good idea, maybe i find more interesting add France over Netherlands and Belgium other option is Turkey/Greece (maybe here you can play with what do Turkey like join WP to invade Greece) and maybe add a "expeditionary" force with south Europe minors (Portugal, Spain and Italy) and of course minors for WP.

Well, then i wait a little, matrix special finish... 14 i have time enough.

Happy holidays i expect you survive family invasion

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Post #: 106

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/25/2012 12:07:49 AM

Mad Russian

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Happy holidays to all of you as well.

Good Hunting.

MR

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Post #: 107

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/27/2012 2:13:44 PM

Hexagon

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A little question, is planed add as bonus a 1950-60 scen??? i refer to have some of the scens but made with 50-60s material, could be interesting.

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Post #: 108

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/28/2012 4:08:08 AM

wodin

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quote:

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

Ummm he say me that appear NVA... appear the Soviet flag and East Germany flag in WP brief.

Apart this yes, expand nations in an expansion or add-on is a good idea, maybe i find more interesting add France over Netherlands and Belgium other option is Turkey/Greece (maybe here you can play with what do Turkey like join WP to invade Greece) and maybe add a "expeditionary" force with south Europe minors (Portugal, Spain and Italy) and of course minors for WP.

Well, then i wait a little, matrix special finish... 14 i have time enough.

Happy holidays i expect you survive family invasion

hex are you the young age of 14..or did I read that wrong..

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Post #: 109

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/28/2012 11:08:37 AM

Hexagon

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I refer to the limit for holidays matrix special... i dont have 14... unfortunately

I think more in the 50-60 scens and maybe could be a good thing a big add-on (scens, campaigns) but add 1 or 2 of this scens in game to test his interest maybe is not a bad idea.

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Post #: 110

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/28/2012 4:28:55 PM

CapnDarwin

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Hexagon,

At some point down the road we may look at doing other decades (50s, 60s, 70s, 90s, etc) Right now it is enough work getting OOBs up to speed for the 80s. In fact my main focus this week is getting those done for the data files. I'm sure with 3rd party support we may see scenarios from a number of time frames over the cold war. The amount of additional expansions will also hinge on how well recieved the game is too. The original idea we had for the game engine was to have different decades and to play the same scenarios/campaigns and see the impacts of technology over time. The 80s are a very good decade to look at the changes in tech in a short time frame. Smart weapons, thermal sights, computer integration and changes in formations, weapons and tactics really shifted in this decade. A fight in 1980 is very different than 1989. Hopefully the game will show off these items well.

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Post #: 111

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/28/2012 5:59:07 PM

Hexagon

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I see, first do this fine and late explore other decades.

Maybe i see to this engine future in 2 series, one FP to cover hypotetic WWIII (apart Europe is interesting explore middle east and Asia maybe China invade Japan??? revenge mode) and other for historical conflicts, really i was interested in the title covering middle east but are others like Vietnam in the conventional war period (1972-1975) and Iran-Irak war + Gulf war.

Well, this year is close to the end, expect next year be full of screen shoots and other goodies

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Post #: 112

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/29/2012 12:48:48 PM

Panta2

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Happy New Year, chaps, and don't work too hard during the holiday, we can wait a little more!

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RE: FPG2 News! - 12/29/2012 12:49:17 PM

wodin

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FPG2 has been mentioned on my FB page. All PR helps..

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Post #: 114

RE: FPG2 News! - 12/31/2012 2:16:48 AM

CapnDarwin

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Been sick through half of my vacation and I'm back in the office tomorrow then off Tuesday. Trying to get the OOBs done enough for the scenario work to get done. Got the Russians done but need to finish stuff on the Americans still. Rob is working hard on the AI and a few of the small bugs we find and Steve is woking on scenarios and tweaking maps. Hopefully we'll be able to start talkinng shop in a couple of weeks once we get the green light.

To get you thinking about things, we allow for custom unit/force badges to be used in the game. These can be anything really as long as they are 100x100 pixels and saved as a PNG format. Every country has its own data folder and these badges are placed there. We have a National placeholder in each file and we have put together a number of actual badges for game use. Also, with this you will be able to name your command avatar and name the force. A few ways to make the game a bit more personal and immersive.

Happy New Year.