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RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 12:50:31 PM

ny59giants

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quote:

About the command HQ....unfortunately it's prepping for Kunming cause i thought i would have reach it sooner... while i got stopped 1 hex east of it... I'll give a try without it and if it doesn't work we'll switch it back for Chengtu, but will mean wait some 3 more months....

OK, then what are you using either the Southern Army or 5th Fleet (NE Fleet after renaming) for now?? One of them could be prepping for Chengtu.

Another idea like the possible bombing of Townsville would be to take Cocos Island out. With the newer Beta patches, LCUs with better than 50 experience levels can starting prepping for a new base (if they are already 100%) and get 25 to 33 prep level as soon as you change over. If not a direct attack then a series of increase bombing from Christmas Island, possible CV attacks, and then BB TF to hit the base hard. IMO, this base will come back to hurt you and you have the opportunity to take it now with you naval supremacy. The Southern Command HQ at Christmas (IO) would help this attack if you do invade.

Just some random thoughts from the General Staff in Tokyo.

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Post #: 1621

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 12:50:47 PM

GreyJoy

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At Chengtu we have 4000 AVs, facing its 1800 AVs.... i guess his forts are up to 3 and the base is a light urban...so a +2 defensive bonus... the first assault will go bad, no doubt,...he still has a lot of embedded supplies with his units...but, with a couple of attacks, that precious supply should exaust and my hope is to start fighting with his troops having the -50% malus due to lack of supplies. My best guys are there. I also have 2 full tank divisions in town....i expect a series of 1-3 at the beginning but it will be important to smash the forts first....once the forts are gone the +2 terrain bonus won't be enough for him.

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1622

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 12:50:58 PM

veji1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

He can't fight for 3-6 months. The DB and TB pools are just not that deep. Even if he repairs everything you won't see him until after Hellcats are available. How are your naval pilots and pools? Looks like you didn't take too big of a hit. Can you reload and take the KB on a trip? Something on your shopping list? Even if you don't you might want to cruise around the SW Pacific shipping lanes or dare I say between Hawaii and Pearl for a couple of months and just be a pain in the ass. He can't ambush you

true.. You have to think long and hard about it, you don't want to lose 100 pilots to a hit and run on a CAP nest, but you have naval superiority for a few months and you might want to hurt his preparations / convoys / logistic trains while you can ?

Of course this raises the question of Fuel expenditure and general economic situation.. But who knows, you might sink a couple of damaged CVs on their way to the west coast...

IF you were him, What would you do with your CVs, say 2 CVs with significant damage and 2 lightly damaged ? try to put yourself in his shoes and see what could be done...

_____________________________

Adieu � Dieu odieux... sign� Adam

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Post #: 1623

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 1:01:26 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

quote:

About the command HQ....unfortunately it's prepping for Kunming cause i thought i would have reach it sooner... while i got stopped 1 hex east of it... I'll give a try without it and if it doesn't work we'll switch it back for Chengtu, but will mean wait some 3 more months....

OK, then what are you using either the Southern Army or 5th Fleet (NE Fleet after renaming) for now?? One of them could be prepping for Chengtu.

Another idea like the possible bombing of Townsville would be to take Cocos Island out. With the newer Beta patches, LCUs with better than 50 experience levels can starting prepping for a new base (if they are already 100%) and get 25 to 33 prep level as soon as you change over. If not a direct attack then a series of increase bombing from Christmas Island, possible CV attacks, and then BB TF to hit the base hard. IMO, this base will come back to hurt you and you have the opportunity to take it now with you naval supremacy. The Southern Command HQ at Christmas (IO) would help this attack if you do invade.

Just some random thoughts from the General Staff in Tokyo.

I've been thinking about invading Cocos for a loooooong time. But i always regretted it. It's heavily fortified and, by now, his seabees must have brought the forts to a HUGE level. I may try to bomb it, but Christmas is already suppressed by the 4Es taking off from Cocos and the only viable solution would be to bomb it with my BBs, covered by the KB... risking to be hit by mines, subs and by PTs.... is it really worth the risk? I don't think i can take Cocos by now, not even with a full blockade (and it's hard to do it in 1943 without putting my ships at risk).
What do i risk if i leave it alive? Well, he can place there his 4Es...reaching Batavia, Sosarbaja and Palembang. But it's only a level 5 AF and those unescorted bombers aren't a real threat for our oilfields which are already guarded by Nicks and soon by Georges.
He can use it as a staging base for an invasion... sure, but it can guest only 15,000 troops (atoll) and so it would be more a LBA base than a real staging base. even without it in late 1943 the allies can load 10 divisions in India/Oz and land everywhere in the western perimeter without much trouble (i've done it starting from PH and landing in Hokkaido!).
I see it more as a nuiance than a real threat.

What i'll do is to use a strong SAG TF, screened by several subs and by a mini_KB to land at Christmas some more AA units and some engineers. Once i gain the air supremacy over it again, i'll be able to defend it and then i'll prevent any real offensive use of Cocos Island.

My main goal now is not to risk my assets. I need to have them fully at hand when the time will come. Won't risk my CVs (nor my BBs) in any offensive mission. To keep my defence as elastic and mobile as possible is my nr.1 priority!!!

Thanks again Micheal, you've been (and you are) very very important!!!

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 1624

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 1:06:19 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

He can't fight for 3-6 months. The DB and TB pools are just not that deep. Even if he repairs everything you won't see him until after Hellcats are available. How are your naval pilots and pools? Looks like you didn't take too big of a hit. Can you reload and take the KB on a trip? Something on your shopping list? Even if you don't you might want to cruise around the SW Pacific shipping lanes or dare I say between Hawaii and Pearl for a couple of months and just be a pain in the ass. He can't ambush you

My pools are fine. The KB is intact in every aspect and the LBA never suffered much during this match.

The temptation of doing something now is BIG....but i won't. Fuel is precious as gold and i won't achieve anything even if i sink a 50 TKs convoy. I need my CVs to be ready in case he tries something in the DEI or in CENTPAC. moreover i need to upgrade them in april and need to upgrade all my DB and TB squadrons. I burnt something like 80,000 fuel in this trip from Truk to Townsville... it's A LOT for Japan, believe me.

No, let's remain focused. Let's get ready for another defensive battle. We need to be ready to smash him when he comes around. Seeking glory around the map is not what Japan needs to do in 1943

(in reply to JohnDillworth)

Post #: 1625

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 1:11:22 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

He can't fight for 3-6 months. The DB and TB pools are just not that deep. Even if he repairs everything you won't see him until after Hellcats are available. How are your naval pilots and pools? Looks like you didn't take too big of a hit. Can you reload and take the KB on a trip? Something on your shopping list? Even if you don't you might want to cruise around the SW Pacific shipping lanes or dare I say between Hawaii and Pearl for a couple of months and just be a pain in the ass. He can't ambush you

true.. You have to think long and hard about it, you don't want to lose 100 pilots to a hit and run on a CAP nest, but you have naval superiority for a few months and you might want to hurt his preparations / convoys / logistic trains while you can ?

Of course this raises the question of Fuel expenditure and general economic situation.. But who knows, you might sink a couple of damaged CVs on their way to the west coast...

IF you were him, What would you do with your CVs, say 2 CVs with significant damage and 2 lightly damaged ? try to put yourself in his shoes and see what could be done...

I'd leave the 2 lightly damaged to be repaired in Oz, while moving back the other 2 to PH.

But, mate, if i was him i'd prey to see the KB hunting around the pacific...as long as he knows where the KB is he can strike somehwere else. What do i gain if i sink a convoy full of supplies? He must be swimming with fuel and supplies everywhere...he simply doesn't need them.
The KB must be a deterrent. Now that it has gained a psycological bonus, i need the KB to remain unseen...powerfull and unseen.

If he strikes at Tabiutea or near Timor i need to be able to rush there i time

(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 1626

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 2:51:28 PM

JohnDillworth

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He can't repair anything big in Oz. Lex and Sara are too big. Not sure about Yorktown and Hornet, maybe only the Wasp will fit (i forget which is smaller, Wasp or Hornet). Can't really tell if you hit another big carrier or not could be FOW. He has flight decks I think or the SBD totals would have been higher (not that they are anything to sneeze at).

_____________________________

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Post #: 1627

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 2:56:46 PM

GreyJoy

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Brad is busy today, so no more turns till tonight...in the meanwhile i'm thinking a lot about my strategy

Micheal's right...i have at least a command HQ doing nothing in Java... will move it to China ASAP prepping for Chengtu

In the last battle we've been able to see the betties employed against CV covered targets...depressing results, even when they arrive untouched. The combination of low speed + DBB flak make them more or less unusable against CVs or BBs... that's why i'm really looking forward to the Frances. I believe that a 340 mhp plane, if well escorted, can cause a massive damage to an invading fleet.
I'm still unsure if it would be a good idea or not to keep on R&D the Frances line once the first model (the fastest one) becomes available.
I currently have 3x30 R&D factories and i'd like to convert them all to production... but i wonder if it's wise not to look for the second version (slower but equipped with H-6 radar)....mmmmm.... thoughts?

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1628

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 2:57:44 PM

veji1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

He can't repair anything big in Oz. Lex and Sara are too big. Not sure about Yorktown and Hornet, maybe only the Wasp will fit (i forget which is smaller, Wasp or Hornet). Can't really tell if you hit another big carrier or not could be FOW. He has flight decks I think or the SBD totals would have been higher (not that they are anything to sneeze at).

That's what I thought. Only the smallest CV can be repaired at Sydney. So it would have to be the 2 lightly damaged at PH and the moderatly damaged on the West Coast.

GreyJoy, it would be nice to get another round up of your state of preparation and your thoughts, we might be able to suggest/help out if you present how you see the situation per geographical theater.

cheers.

_____________________________

Adieu � Dieu odieux... sign� Adam

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Post #: 1629

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 3:00:10 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

He can't repair anything big in Oz. Lex and Sara are too big. Not sure about Yorktown and Hornet, maybe only the Wasp will fit (i forget which is smaller, Wasp or Hornet). Can't really tell if you hit another big carrier or not could be FOW. He has flight decks I think or the SBD totals would have been higher (not that they are anything to sneeze at).

I think we damaged pretty well the Lex and the Hornet, while the Sara and the Yorky got out pretty unscatched. Probably he will need a big yard only for the Lex who ate two torps... the others may be in fighting conditions with few weeks in a big enough port

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Post #: 1630

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 3:04:47 PM

veji1

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Honestly the experience is that long range naval bombers are only mildly efficient against soft targets. Against hard targets, whether Betty or Frances, they are cannon fodder used to tire the CAP out and seeing from afar through direct attack what is coming at you. Exactly like in this battle. having Betties and zeroes, even late in war and flown by crappy pilots is usefull because they attack from far and show you more precisely what's there.

A bit later in game they are also useful for small strike packages Chutaisize from bypassed smaller bases against unprotecte TFs...

But if I were you I would separate your naval offensive LBA into 2 tiers :
- the long range Zeroes and Betties with expendable pilots that are "offensive recon" and cannonfodder to tire a CAP
- Higher quality groups of higher quality Frances with better escorts (but not much, for escorts it is number that count) that should strike with or after the CV forces have struck and could actually do a bit of damage.

But what you want to avoid is throwing away those quality pilots from the second group on hard CAPPED targets. Just have those groups in a second echelon or with very short range so that they don't strike from too far and can be saved for when they are useful.

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Adieu � Dieu odieux... sign� Adam

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Post #: 1631

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 3:25:45 PM

GreyJoy

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quote:

ORIGINAL: veji1

quote:

ORIGINAL: JohnDillworth

He can't repair anything big in Oz. Lex and Sara are too big. Not sure about Yorktown and Hornet, maybe only the Wasp will fit (i forget which is smaller, Wasp or Hornet). Can't really tell if you hit another big carrier or not could be FOW. He has flight decks I think or the SBD totals would have been higher (not that they are anything to sneeze at).

That's what I thought. Only the smallest CV can be repaired at Sydney. So it would have to be the 2 lightly damaged at PH and the moderatly damaged on the West Coast.

GreyJoy, it would be nice to get another round up of your state of preparation and your thoughts, we might be able to suggest/help out if you present how you see the situation per geographical theater.

cheers.

Sure...

BURMA: nothing changed from the latest maps we posted. We hold a line that runs from Akyab through the jungles south of Kalemyo, up to north of Katha and to Wazarup (north of Mitikyna). We have forts everywhere up and building but supply flow remains a problem at Akyab and everywhere up from Mandalay cause i decided not to build up any base in order not to give him something easy to bomb

Jungle and stacking limits are my friends here. I'mk trying to rotate my units up and down from the fighting line, so to give them some break after spending months in the jungle hexes.
My goal is to be able to bring in the next 6 months 2 more divisions to be used as reserves.

ADAMANS: We have garrisoned and built up Port Blair (Af lvl 5, with 2 regiments, 3 AA, 2 base forces and an Air HQ), Little Adaman (2 base forces, 1 mixed Bde and 1 AA) and the other base whose name now i don't remember (north of Sebang anyway). With forts everywhere up to 4> and with some more reinforcements coming, i do consider these places well garrisoned as long as Burma remains in my heands.
Sebang has a whole division, 4 forts, an arty unit with 320mm guns, 2 AA, 2 base forces with radars and an Air HQ. Moulmein is held and Victoria point will soon get a garrison and possibly an Air HQ in order to triangulate the air defence of the Adamans (Rangoon-Victoria-Port Blair-Sebang).

SUMATRA:

We've already spoken about Sebang. We have then garrisoned Padang (with a reinforced division, 2 base forces and some artillery) and Siberoet (a regiment with some engineers), then we have Ban-whatever (the base on the western coast exactly at the same latitude as Palembang) which is a level 7 AF, with engineers and a mixed regiment. Palembang has an air HQ, several base forces, lots of AA and 2 regiments. Oosthaven gets a base forces and some tanks. Another regiment is ready to be shipped, along with 4 AA units from Singapore.

JAVA:
We have 4 divisions here, along with 2 Air HQs (Sosarbaja and Batavia) and some SNLF and Militia units.
Christmas Island is held by a mixed Bde, 3 strong SNLF units and 2 base forces. Need more AA here and some engineers to repair the damages caused by his Liberators from Cocos.

SOUTHERN DEI:
Well, here the list is long... we have units spread over all the coastal dot bases from Bali to Timor. In some cases regiments, in other SNLF units. I'm not building any AF except for Ruteng and Dempassar...don't wanna give him any advantage if he decides to land here.
Makassar and Kendari are acting as backwater bases, with air HQs, Naval HQs, AKEs, ADs and ASs. My counterstrikes will start from here.
Timor is held by 2 Divisions and by a pletora of AA, Artillery, Army and Air HQs... the best i could do.
Ambon has an air HQ and we're building a series of nearby bases to guest fighters when his bombers will decide to arrive.
Babar, Saumlaki and Selroe are all defended by regiments with engineers building forts (everywhere up to 3 by now).
Taberfane and Dobo have combat engineers and parts of the 68th Inf Division.
We're now building Sorong area and Biak area, where i'll place air HQs.

Menado needs more attention...i'll strip some engineers from Solomons area and send them here cause i want to build it at lvl 9 AF ASAP.

NG-SOLOMONS... i'll go in details later tonight, now i need to work

(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 1632

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 3:34:55 PM

veji1

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quote:

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy
i'll go in details later tonight, now i need to work

THis is not acceptable.. I need to work to but I don't do it so that I can keep posting here !

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Adieu � Dieu odieux... sign� Adam

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Post #: 1633

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 4:19:25 PM

Canoerebel

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Congratulations on a major victory, GJ! Having bought so much time to attend to your defenses and put them in good order must feel like you've won the lottery. You really are quite an amazing player. You're like the Hobbit of AE!

(in reply to veji1)

Post #: 1634

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 7:12:10 PM

Mistmatz

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Congrats on your recent victory! Certainly not a reversed Midway, but psychologically very import and with your recent successes in China just the time you may need to propel your defenses to another level.

I understand why you don't want to go after his damaged CV's. Not sure I would do the same but I think understand your reasons.

Having said that I suggest you go a little bit in his head though...

How about searching all Australian harbors for his CVs with Glen's - even the small ones. Rockhampton and the like, which may be usually ignored but are a good place to hide for quick patches. If necessary even go as far as Auckland and Melbourne. Make sure he knows you are looking for these CVs. You may never spot a single valuable target but you may make him move prematurely (even allied damage control is no 100% protection against the failing pump message) or even set up a few wolfpacks and try to get a lucky torpedo hit.

My 2 cents.

_____________________________

If you gained knowledge through the forum, why not putting it into the AE wiki?

http://witp-ae.wikia.com/wiki/War_in_the_Pacific:_Admiral%27s_Edition_Wiki

(in reply to Canoerebel)

Post #: 1635

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/27/2012 8:27:42 PM

Encircled

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What a cracking result for the KB

Surely its tempting to go on a massive raid, as there isn't a lot he can do to stop you?

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Post #: 1636

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 11:50:16 AM

GreyJoy

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Thx Guys!

No, a part from some subs recon missions, i won't do anything special.
My ships are in good conditions but the runs at flank speed put sys damage of many major ships up to 10. Kaga and Akagi are in pretty bad conditions and need some days of R&D. Same goes for lots of my subs... those who weren't damaged during the battle have their sys up to 10/15 and their fuel tanks are completely empty. Several DDs suffered engine damages at various levels and many more need to attend their 12/42 upgrades.

So no, we need to use this time to get ready at 100% strenght.

Also fuel remains a problem. Rabaul only has 20k fuel, Truk 60k and one of my two oilers TFs (the one who is kept near Kusiae Is and that refueld part of the KB during the long run from the north) is down to 15k tons...
Luckly i had time to refuel the other Replenishment TF at Babeldolap (sp!?)

Feb 10, 1943

While the KB crawls back to Rabaul at cruise speed, we had a massive refuel operation at sea south of Rossell Island... if i'm arriving safely at Rabaul without ending in red for what concerns fuel i can call myself lucky! Only now i realize how much i risked... fuel was already below 40% when we seeked for battle and probably another day of fightings would have meant to be forced to leave behind several capital ships in order to save the KB...

Brad's subs are starting to appear around the KB... we are doing our best with the ASW (both aerial and naval).
His CVs and BBs must all be at Townsville licking their wounds by now

The massive air movements of the last 5/6 days are now showing their drawbacks... several Sentais of Betties, Nells and zeros are up to 40% fatigue, losing planes and pilots every day during the transfers... I had forced them to travel all the way from Java to Rabaul/Gasmata/Munda in a couple of days and then i ordered them to fly offensive and search missions... and that's the result. Now i need to rest them for a week at least.

We're unloading a huge convoy at Saipan. Many aux units will get their feet ashore and start preparing the ground for the 20th Division that will be bought out from Manchuria in few days (we now have 1900 PPs to spare!).

The enemy unknown TF remains south of Paramushiro Jima... doing what!?!?!?

The first group of N1K1 is almost ready at Singapore and will soon be transfered to Palembang.

An air HQ is now loading at Tokyo for Biak, while 3 Indipendent Eng Rgt will be moved to Sorong and start to build the base up.

I foresee an heavy bombardment of Lautem very soon. We're getting ready... mines are coming and a group of PT will be formed, while a flottilla of DDs will guard the harbour and the BB/CA TF, along with the Mini-KB will wait in the shade between Kendari and Ambon...17 subs are already in position to be spread around Lautem as soon as he gives me a sign...

I'm now tempted to divide the KB for the next month (untill the upgrades of 4/43). The idea is to send 2 CVLs and 2 small CVs to the DEI (where they could support the Christmas operation and keep him honest on southern DEI), while keeping a decent force in the pacific to counter the foreseen invasion of Tabiutea. If he spots my CVs near Java he may get too confortable in CENTPAC...

In China we're almost ready for the first attack on Chengtu... 4 days to go

(in reply to Encircled)

Post #: 1637

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 12:26:40 PM

GreyJoy

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Few considerations about NOPAC.

Winter will be over in a month from now... and it's been too quiet for a too long time. Not a single enemy recon mission. No more subs spotted...nothing (except that TF which is scouting, probably trying to see what forces i have there)...

I don't like this quiet. Not at all. I've already seen what a not-well-defended NOPAC may mean for Japan. So what to do?

Here's the plan. Another division will be coming (divided into 3 regiments) in the next 40 days. Some more base forces are getting there and i'm transfering the HI training groups to Shimushiri Jiima (where i have an Air HQ). These groups, if needed, will be able to attack. I'm also transfering a 42 Tojo training Sentai to Paramushiro (which can be reached by Attu by 4Es).

A SCTF composed by 1 modern CL and 6 DDs will be dockedt at Etorofu, where i already have several Naval support squads and some Aux ships (AD, AKE, AS).

Still unsure if to divert a sub flottilla up there. I need my subs to remain packed and don't believe they can be effective if not in big groups

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1638

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 2:41:03 PM

goran007

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Most of his CV's need repair yard, rest are too depleted or aircraft and men to oppose anything in near future. If there is time to counter invade now is.

Go somewhere strategically important, but where you could have clear advantage from LBA and KB, trash and capture few bases. Capturing north Australia will not only destroy some aircraft and ships but you will also secure major part of DEI so you will need less land forces to keep them safe.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice few divisions on capturing and holding Darwin + few bases when only oil is what you really need. For keeping Darwin open he will use best airframes he has and still loose. On your part you probably have too many old and obsolete aircraft that you'll replace anyway.

Ignore what i said and what i would do, play your game, i am just amazed how well u laid trap for his CV's. Considering how many planes you had on cap and what damage you did prior to attacking but also AA that you did put up, its normal that USN hit nothing and its exactly what we would expect in real life.

You made my day GJ...:)

< Message edited by goran007 -- 12/28/2012 2:44:10 PM >

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1639

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 3:11:26 PM

ny59giants

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Have you used PPs to buy out the Infantry Groups in Japan?? I used them to garrison the NoPac in the Kuriles. Later in the war which should be about now in your game you start to get more components that allows those Inf Grps to expand and become a division. The other thing is the ability for those components that are delayed to start prepping for a future base (click on "Unit Organization" to see when and what the other components are). I would use some of your Chinese bases "Ind Mixed Bde" that do the same thing for garrison duties in the Marianas Islands, as an example.

LCU Upgrades - Many of your BFs will be due about 555 days into the game. To find them easily, hit the "G" button to pull up all your ground units. Then "Show Soft" in the upper right hand corner. Finally, click on "TOE." Scroll down to see which units are due upgrades. If a "0" or "-1" show up (forget which one is what) that unit can be upgraded.

Fuel - Are you micro-managing your TKs and Resource convoys going to Japan?? I set them to "Do Not Refuel" when they leave Singapore and any other base in the SRA going to Japan and/or points in eastern Pacific like Truk. If they don't have enough organic fuel to make the trip back to the SRA, I then switch the Refueling Option on the TF screen to "Minimal Refuel" and use the Waypoint option. Finally, I hit the "Replenish from Port." This option will give the TF only enough fuel plus 10% to get back to the port in the SRA where all your fuel is generated.

If you see some of my TF returning to my main base in the USA as Allies, they get back home almost in the Red with maybe a few turns of fuel left. No sense in you transporting a large TF worth of Fuel back to Japan and then have the TF top off its fuel tanks from the supply of fuel you just dropped off unless needed.

I may have mentioned these before, but they are important things to remember and since your AAR get so many hits (some jealousy here

). it is good knowledge to have.

Economic Minister Benoit

< Message edited by ny59giants -- 12/28/2012 3:13:34 PM >

_____________________________

(in reply to GreyJoy)

Post #: 1640

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 4:36:27 PM

crsutton

Posts: 9590
Joined: 12/6/2002
From: Maryland
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quote:

ORIGINAL: goran007

Most of his CV's need repair yard, rest are too depleted or aircraft and men to oppose anything in near future. If there is time to counter invade now is.

Go somewhere strategically important, but where you could have clear advantage from LBA and KB, trash and capture few bases. Capturing north Australia will not only destroy some aircraft and ships but you will also secure major part of DEI so you will need less land forces to keep them safe.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice few divisions on capturing and holding Darwin + few bases when only oil is what you really need. For keeping Darwin open he will use best airframes he has and still loose. On your part you probably have too many old and obsolete aircraft that you'll replace anyway.

Ignore what i said and what i would do, play your game, i am just amazed how well u laid trap for his CV's. Considering how many planes you had on cap and what damage you did prior to attacking but also AA that you did put up, its normal that USN hit nothing and its exactly what we would expect in real life.

You made my day GJ...:)

You know, Goran007 for a "new trooper" might have a good idea here.

Without his carrier fleet, Northern Oz is really cut off and the flow of supply to Oz over land is limited to about 500 units a day. I just don't think he can oppose a strong Japanese operation in Oz. My experience as the Allied player is that the more Allied troops in North Coast of Oz the more desperate the supply situation eventually becomes.

I think if I were playing Japan any Allied presence that poses a threat to the DEI would have to be my first priority. It is well worth having a strong presence in OZ for as long and you can. It really does not matter if you eventually sacrifice 200,000 men in the process. With China out of the picture, you have the troops to spare and to delay him in that theater for six months to a year would be a blessing. Right now, Darwin is the dagger poised to gut your insides.

You might give some thought to this. If you do it, then do it big time and send every mobile unit you have. It is an opportunity to trap and kill some Allied units.

This is a bold move but the more I think about it the more I like it.

BTW, I don't know if you have noticed it but both Viberpol and I have noticed that it is almost impossible to hurt well capped carriers with LBA. It seems that it is now almost impossible to get a coordinated strike to fly from a land base, and this usually ends with the land air units getting cut to bits by the carrier CAP.

I also like very much the changes with Da Babes where the Japanese player has to plan every operation with his limited fuel supply in mind. This reflects the reality of the war in the Pacific for Japan. The Japanese player "should" always be worried about fuel and Allied submarines. That never is the case in the stock game.

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Post #: 1641

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 4:42:53 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
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First, mega-congrats!

Second, you really should re-consider the night time port attack on Townsville. Use merely "trained" pilots and just throw away the airframes. Further damage to his CVs is well worth it. While you're at it, get a conga line of subs sending in minis there as well. It only takes a little luck!

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Post #: 1642

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 5:46:35 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
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Subs (including minis, I think) cannot penetrate to attack stood-down ships in a port at level 2 or higher. I think the first turn at PH does not use this restriction but I believe it applies after that. They can lurk in the hex and wait for TFs coming out of port, though.

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Post #: 1643

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 6:42:42 PM

goran007

Posts: 143
Joined: 9/3/2009
From: croatia
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quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton
I think if I were playing Japan any Allied presence that poses a threat to the DEI would have to be my first priority. It is well worth having a strong presence in OZ for as long and you can. It really does not matter if you eventually sacrifice 200,000 men in the process. With China out of the picture, you have the troops to spare and to delay him in that theater for six months to a year would be a blessing. Right now, Darwin is the dagger poised to gut your insides.

GJ, although your victory was great you are far from winning the game. You have a window of lets say 3 months before allies recuperate and return stronger than ever.

As you already saw your main problem isn't lack or quality of planes, ships or men, but how to predict which way allied hammer will strike:
You destroyed China and eventually you'll free a lot of divisions from there. He knows it and he'll stay clear of large landmass, so lets presume Burma major assault is unlikely.
Second option is central pacific, you have KB intact and proven as awesome force i could bet my house that he wont go with some deep/bold strike to Marijanas etc...

That leaves DEI and Kuriles.

Kuriles against you? After what u did to Rader, i dont think so. He knows that you'll be cautious about it. He cant have good end game LBA there or really suppress chain of bases. Kuriles are basically a gamble 'all or nothing', with big possible gain but also with a good chance of extreme losses.

That leaves DEI, from Darwin.
For a cautious and methodical player its the best way. We all know its hard to defend against surgical strike to a few good islands that could be developed.

I would like to point only 2 things:
take Darwin/north australia and whole DEI would be safe.
take Darwin/north Australia and he'll try to capture it back.

Second argument is really important as you create a scenario to defeat allies in the 1944 on a massive scale.
Retaking Darwin by having to land 4-5 US divisions means a lot of force in cruisers/battleships/transports and CV's. In 1944 your basses in the area could be stacked with thousands of bombers, fighters and with strong KB lingering in shadows. You have everything in place for major US defeat.

Why is Darwin so important? Because its the key of IJ insecurity of being stretched on multiple axis of possible allies advances.

Why is Darwin good place to commit?
Because its far from his LBA and short to yours.
Because its a long trip from either side of Australia to get to
Because any of his ships being hit there are long way to friendly port that could be heavily patrolled by subs (choke points).
Darwin is a nightmare to recapture as allies and a huge gamble that most would bite.

To capture it you'll smash few BB's, transports that you don't really need anymore and you'll expose lets say 4 divisions there in level 6-7 forts by the time he comes.
You loose nothing but gain a lot.

Even though its 1943 and on paper allies should dominate next 2-3 months they have less to oppose Japan than 1941.
You know they wont go out and fight, they'll lick their wounds. It would be huge mistake to let them just lie on the floor as this isn't a fair fight kick them in the head before they get their guard up!

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 1644

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 8:25:41 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
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quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Subs (including minis, I think) cannot penetrate to attack stood-down ships in a port at level 2 or higher. I think the first turn at PH does not use this restriction but I believe it applies after that. They can lurk in the hex and wait for TFs coming out of port, though.

I believe this applies to regular subs (ie they can penetrate small harbors like a mini), but not minis. I recently sent one into Pago Pago and I know it was bigger than level 2.

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Post #: 1645

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 10:27:42 PM

BBfanboy

Posts: 18046
Joined: 8/4/2010
From: Winnipeg, MB
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: Cribtop

quote:

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Subs (including minis, I think) cannot penetrate to attack stood-down ships in a port at level 2 or higher. I think the first turn at PH does not use this restriction but I believe it applies after that. They can lurk in the hex and wait for TFs coming out of port, though.

I believe this applies to regular subs (ie they can penetrate small harbors like a mini), but not minis. I recently sent one into Pago Pago and I know it was bigger than level 2.

Did your mini-subs attack stood-down ships as opposed to any in a TF? That is the only way I can think of to confirm they were inside the defences. Just wanna be sure we are talking about identical situations - so many ifs, ands, buts & nots in this game!

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Post #: 1646

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/28/2012 11:07:39 PM

Cribtop

Posts: 3890
Joined: 8/10/2008
From: Lone Star Nation
Status: offline

No, but I got the "founders trying to penetrate harbor" message, so it wasn't just loitering in the hex (I do that as well).

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Post #: 1647

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/29/2012 9:02:10 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
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Goran, CrSutton....guys...i'm sorry to disappoint you but, altough i perfectly understand and agree with your strategic considerations about the importance of holding Northern Oz (or even recapturing it) - and here i made a huge strategical mistake abbandoning it to fall back in the DEI without a fight! - this can't and won't happen in this game.

Brad is far from being a fool. He already has 55,000 men at Darwin and more 21,000 at Bathturst Island, along with 45,000 at Port Hedland (where the 6th Aus Division is confirmed) and 20,000 more in places like Gove.
All these bases are already maxed out in terms of developing and even 6 full divisions woundn't be able to capture them in an amphib attack.

I know what i'm talking about. I've attacked Darwin in march 1942 and, even against only a couple of Aus Bdes, it was a close call... the battle costed me some 25 transports and half of the 4th Division. Now Brad has several hundreds more modern bombers and fighters based there, along with legions of PTs, subs with working torps and upgraded strong divisions....

No guys, it will be a suicide. Doesn't matter if his CVs cannot come into action. The KB alone won't win an amphib landing and in this Mod, with the reduced effect of the 250Kg bomb, the ground bombings won't have the effect you would look for.

You say i shouldn't let him recover. But let's be honest: we have just sink 1 CV and damaged 3 more. This isn't a war changer. Lady Luck bought us some more months with this "kiss" and i need these months to prepare my defences against the inevitable.

There are many things that needs to be addressed and the KB has to be ready to do its job when the time will arrive again.

Feb 10-13, 43

So it seems that those who's foreseen a new life for the Burma theatre were right. Brad started back his bombing campaign against Akyab. Cruisers bombed it from the sea, while hundreds of 2Es attacked it for the last 3 days.
I'm sending more supplies to Rangoon to counter it and hope my defensive strategy will prove to be a good one even for 1943.

ASW: Brad subs started to work again. In the last 3 days he sunk 2 xAKs and 3 PBs near Singapore and Brunei... despite the heavy ASW his subs are becoming a threat once again. Need to bring my ASW defences to another higher level.

NOPAC: that TF we spotted for several days was forgotten by Brad... he sent it there to scout and to make some noise and then the events of the Solomons made him forget about it... 1 Agano Class CL and 2 modern DDs sunk 2 xAPs, 4 xAks and 3 KVs without any problem

KB: we avoided several pesky subs south of Rabaul and reached the base without a problem. Every ship, even the big BB/CVs, managed to reload, thanks to the naval HQ, the port size and the several AKEs i have at Rabaul. We also managed to upgrade 150 Vals into Judys and some more 40 Jills have been added in place of the Kates. Every squadron has been refilled with crack pilots and every ship got refueled at 100%. We obviously have a fuel problem in the Pacific now. Need to send some 100k Fuel here ASAP for future operations.

Now Rossell Island and Tagula are getting some engineers in order to build up forts to level 3 and 2 small SNLF units will be airlifted here. We need to prevent any future paradrop.

We now need to move some forces to CENTPAC. Naru Is and Ocean are getting some garrisons, while supplies and fuel needs to be sent to Kwalajein.

On the 13th Brad set up 2 CAP Traps. Once above Chengtu. I couldn't keep both Chengtu and Chungking's AFs suppressed so Brad moved 100 fighters to Chungking and LRCAP Chengtu. My bombers arrived with little escort and it cost me 31 planes

...well played! Despite being cut off from any external supply source, Chungking keeps on repairing its damage and so it does Chengtu! But we're getting there...
Despite the air losses, we attacked Chengtu for the first time and the result wasn't that bad....

Ground combat at Chengtu (75,41)

Japanese Deliberate attack

Attacking force 121301 troops, 1307 guns, 1339 vehicles, Assault Value = 4015

Defending force 72872 troops, 266 guns, 0 vehicles, Assault Value = 1754

Japanese engineers reduce fortifications to 2

Japanese adjusted assault: 3454

Allied adjusted defense: 6211

Japanese assault odds: 1 to 2 (fort level 2)

Combat modifiers
Defender: terrain(+), forts(+), leaders(+), preparation(-)
experience(-), supply(-)
Attacker:

Japanese ground losses:
7368 casualties reported
Squads: 12 destroyed, 402 disabled
Non Combat: 2 destroyed, 93 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 58 disabled
Guns lost 43 (1 destroyed, 42 disabled)
Vehicles lost 44 (2 destroyed, 42 disabled)

Allied ground losses:
6962 casualties reported
Squads: 45 destroyed, 284 disabled
Non Combat: 40 destroyed, 217 disabled
Engineers: 1 destroyed, 3 disabled
Units destroyed 1

Assaulting units:
37th Division
70th Division
13th Division
4th Tank Regiment
3rd Tank Regiment
35th Division
15th Tank Regiment
27th Division
39th Division
15th Division
1st Tank Division
104th Division
2nd Tank Regiment
2nd Tank Division
4th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
1st Mortar Battalion
9th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Botanko Hvy Gun Regiment
13th Ind.Art.Mortar Battalion
6th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
Tonei Hvy Gun Regiment
5th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
21st Mortar Battalion
1st Army
14th Medium Field Artillery Regiment
23rd Army
7th Medium Field Artillery Regiment

Defending units:
17th Chinese Corps
19th Chinese Corps
69th Chinese Corps
7th Chinese Corps
92nd Chinese Corps
12th Chinese Corps
96th Chinese Corps
57th Chinese Corps
3rd New Chinese Corps
80th Chinese Corps
56th Chinese Corps
76th Chinese Corps
24th Chinese Corps
98th Chinese Corps
3rd Construction Regiment
7th Group Army
26th Group Army
24th Group Army
22nd Artillery Regiment
1st Construction Regiment
29th Group Army
3rd Group Army
5th War Area
38th Chinese Corps
2nd Group Army
Jingcha War Area
Red Chinese Army
56th AT Gun Regiment
12th Group Army
2nd War Area
3rd Chinese Base Force
1st War Area
4th Chinese Base Force
9th Chinese Base Force

So forts were at lvl 3 as we supposed and we managed to bring them down to 2. Losses were pretty high but we'll recover...he won't! We'll get there!

Over Babar he made another CAP Trap. Sent there some small cargo TFs heavily CAPped from Bathrust Is, hoping that my bombers from Timor would attack.
Luckly we had foreseen this possible movement and we ordered to our Judys and Kates to stand down. We lost a couple of Jakes to his LRCAP there but nothing more.
The daily bombings against Saumlaki and Babar continue. This is clearly the easiest target for his next jump. He can cover his landings with LRCAP...so he can do it even without CVs... but he need first to shut down my AFs cause he will be in range of several BIG AFs where i'm massing bombers and torpedo bombers.
My subs are also ready to meet him. I have a pack of 15 subs in the deep waters south of Saumlaki...waiting for preys...

Java: a convoy from Japan is arriving with 6 base forces, 3 Ind Eng Regiments, 1 CD unit and some more small SNLF units. These guys will be needed to reinforce the Java defences.

Sumatra: the first sentai of 27 N1K1 is finally operative at Palembang, where it joined 27 Nicks from an Army Sentai. The next Sentai that will be upgraded to George will be at Rangoon in a week from now.

10 oceanic subs are leaving Rabaul harbour. Their mission is an hard one: intercept the damaged enemy's BBs and CVs on their way to Pearl Harbour!
15 Ro-Subs will remain in the Solomons (i decided not to send them to NOPAC)

Mariannas: we're really relieved to finally have an air HQ (Air Division) at Saipan.

(in reply to Cribtop)

Post #: 1648

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/29/2012 9:11:04 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Have you used PPs to buy out the Infantry Groups in Japan?? I used them to garrison the NoPac in the Kuriles. Later in the war which should be about now in your game you start to get more components that allows those Inf Grps to expand and become a division. The other thing is the ability for those components that are delayed to start prepping for a future base (click on "Unit Organization" to see when and what the other components are). I would use some of your Chinese bases "Ind Mixed Bde" that do the same thing for garrison duties in the Marianas Islands, as an example.

No, i didn't use those Inf Groups. I bought a full division from Tokyo a while back and sent it to shimushiri Jiima (which has been elected as my main base in the area). Infantry BNs (those that pops up in Hokkaido) and SNLF units are garrisoning the rest of the islands. Now i'll buy a full division from Manchuria the 8th and divide it into 3 regiments in order to garrison the rest.
Some of the Chinese Mixed Bde are garrisoning the Adamans and western Sumatra. I prefer to have regular divisions for the Mariannas. But that's just an aestetic choice i guess...

quote:

LCU Upgrades - Many of your BFs will be due about 555 days into the game. To find them easily, hit the "G" button to pull up all your ground units. Then "Show Soft" in the upper right hand corner. Finally, click on "TOE." Scroll down to see which units are due upgrades. If a "0" or "-1" show up (forget which one is what) that unit can be upgraded.

mmmm...will have to check...didn't know that

Thanks!

quote:

Fuel - Are you micro-managing your TKs and Resource convoys going to Japan?? I set them to "Do Not Refuel" when they leave Singapore and any other base in the SRA going to Japan and/or points in eastern Pacific like Truk. If they don't have enough organic fuel to make the trip back to the SRA, I then switch the Refueling Option on the TF screen to "Minimal Refuel" and use the Waypoint option. Finally, I hit the "Replenish from Port." This option will give the TF only enough fuel plus 10% to get back to the port in the SRA where all your fuel is generated.

If you see some of my TF returning to my main base in the USA as Allies, they get back home almost in the Red with maybe a few turns of fuel left. No sense in you transporting a large TF worth of Fuel back to Japan and then have the TF top off its fuel tanks from the supply of fuel you just dropped off unless needed.

Absolutely! I do it since the beginning and check the fuel usage every day!
I've also find out that a good way not to burn fuel for the KB is to limit the air ops when you are in safe waters. There's a lot of difference between performing a daily CAP mission and keep your fighters down for example.

Another good thing to do to save supply is to keep your units in rest mode when they are not needed to build anything and when the enemy is far away... don't always keep them in combat mode!

(in reply to ny59giants)

Post #: 1649

RE: Avoiding traps - 12/29/2012 9:20:29 AM

GreyJoy

Posts: 6750
Joined: 3/18/2011
Status: offline

quote:

ORIGINAL: crsutton

quote:

ORIGINAL: goran007

Most of his CV's need repair yard, rest are too depleted or aircraft and men to oppose anything in near future. If there is time to counter invade now is.

Go somewhere strategically important, but where you could have clear advantage from LBA and KB, trash and capture few bases. Capturing north Australia will not only destroy some aircraft and ships but you will also secure major part of DEI so you will need less land forces to keep them safe.

Don't be afraid to sacrifice few divisions on capturing and holding Darwin + few bases when only oil is what you really need. For keeping Darwin open he will use best airframes he has and still loose. On your part you probably have too many old and obsolete aircraft that you'll replace anyway.

Ignore what i said and what i would do, play your game, i am just amazed how well u laid trap for his CV's. Considering how many planes you had on cap and what damage you did prior to attacking but also AA that you did put up, its normal that USN hit nothing and its exactly what we would expect in real life.

You made my day GJ...:)

You know, Goran007 for a "new trooper" might have a good idea here. Without his carrier fleet, Northern Oz is really cut off and the flow of supply to Oz over land is limited to about 500 units a day. I just don't think he can oppose a strong Japanese operation in Oz. My experience as the Allied player is that the more Allied troops in North Coast of Oz the more desperate the supply situation eventually becomes.

I think if I were playing Japan any Allied presence that poses a threat to the DEI would have to be my first priority. It is well worth having a strong presence in OZ for as long and you can. It really does not matter if you eventually sacrifice 200,000 men in the process. With China out of the picture, you have the troops to spare and to delay him in that theater for six months to a year would be a blessing. Right now, Darwin is the dagger poised to gut your insides.

You might give some thought to this. If you do it, then do it big time and send every mobile unit you have. It is an opportunity to trap and kill some Allied units.

This is a bold move but the more I think about it the more I like it.

BTW, I don't know if you have noticed it but both Viberpol and I have noticed that it is almost impossible to hurt well capped carriers with LBA. It seems that it is now almost impossible to get a coordinated strike to fly from a land base, and this usually ends with the land air units getting cut to bits by the carrier CAP.

I also like very much the changes with Da Babes where the Japanese player has to plan every operation with his limited fuel supply in mind. This reflects the reality of the war in the Pacific for Japan. The Japanese player "should" always be worried about fuel and Allied submarines. That never is the case in the stock game.

Com'on guys, let's face the truth: would you really send your crack KB pilots against an enemy lvl 9 AF in mid 1943!?!?!? Yes, i may sink some transports...maybe even some cruisers... but at the expense of hundreds of my crack, irreplaceable pilots!
I need the KB to be my sharp blade when the real invasion will take place. The goal isn't simply to sink ships. The goal is to stop invasions!
Darwin cannot be isolated. Too many garrisoned bases. Too many supplies and fuel already brought in.
The more i keep the KB a fleet in being, the more he will have to be cautious about his next operations. I need the KB to remain in the shades as long as possible (as we've just done).
With a good search infrastructure and with some good time spent reading the reports and replays i think i can muster enough intel to be able to predict where his next operations will be. and that's the only place where i want the KB to be.
The best way to delay the allies is to sink an invading armada when it's unloading. Stop them on the beaches. That's the strategy.

I'll keep on using the Detection Level as the primary warning indicator. Where he uses his best recon assets is probably where he will attack soon. If a base gets a 9/10 DL it means he's using his F4s... which mean he needs to know precisely what i have there...

At the moment he keeps on reconning Tabiutea, Woodlark Is and Christmas Is. Timor is getting his attention too but that's pretty obvious

(in reply to crsutton)

Post #: 1650