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Protecting Mining Stations - 1/9/2013 3:56:08 PM   
RockKahn

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/27/2011
From: USA
Status: offline 		I just got DW and RotS about a week ago. I've been having a lot of problems with pirates and space creatures attacking my mining stations. I searched the forum, but couldn't find anything on this.

The manual states the need for mining stations to be protected. Makes sense, so, in my current game I decided to do something about it. I started building frigates like crazy and was giving them a mission of patrolling my mining stations. I have 27 mining stations. I'm setting up one frigate to patrol each station, and am working to increase that number to 2 frigates, or 1 destroyer.

I realize the best way to beat pirates is to destroy their bases, but they keep showing up. It's kind of a pain to assign frigates to patrol each and every mining station, so, at the risk of sounding lazy, is there a better way? What happens if they get low on fuel while patrolling? Do they leave the patrol on their own and leave my station unprotected? Do I need to manage refueling?

I need some advice on protecting my unarmed mining stations.

Also, the game builds mining stations on it own, right? I don't see anywhere stop automation of mining station building, so I'll know when new ones are built and can send frigates immediately to protect it.

I'm getting Legends this week. Maybe it'll change the way to manage this.

Thanks in advance.

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/9/2013 4:38:06 PM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline 		Generally speaking, I think with Legends the gas/mining stations are armed. Prior to this, I armed my stations myself... a couple of extra lasers and an additional shield. That generally speaking gives lower rated pirate vessels enough trouble as your escorts close in for the kill.
At one point, I thought about placing a hyper-deny technology on a station... this means they cannot get away as your escorts and frigates send them the way of the dodo.
That is how I handle pesky priates... and I play them on full blast... that plus hunting their bases down keep them at bay.

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/9/2013 5:10:41 PM   
Shuul

 

Posts: 133
Joined: 2/16/2011
Status: offline 		The only thing i do is add 5-10 missiles or torpedoes (depends on what you research) and additional shields. In one game i even added fighter docks.
No need to patrol them after that at all.

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/9/2013 6:29:06 PM   
Cruis.In

 

Posts: 202
Joined: 11/10/2012
Status: offline 		yup, and build less mining stations, but with more mining capability. less to manage, same input/output.

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/9/2013 7:08:51 PM   
Ralzakark


Posts: 225
Joined: 4/24/2012
Status: offline 		...or adjust the numbers of pirates and creatures downwards whenstarting the game.

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/9/2013 8:47:46 PM   
RockKahn

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/27/2011
From: USA
Status: offline 		First, thanks for all of the replies.

Regarding ship design:

I created a new mining station design, but left automation on, so my design that added armaments to my mining station design (I renamed the AI's MS-7 to MS-7 Mk1) was soon replaced by the AI with a new design (MS-8) without armaments, again.

I was reading in the forums about ship design and it appears the only way for your new manual designs to be used for very long is to turn the automation off. I also read where manual ship design does not allow the AI to update any weapons on any ship/base that might be improved through research. So, if a better neutron torpedo (I made that name up as an example) gets improved through research, any ship or base that uses that torpedo will not get the new and improved version unless I upgrade it's design manually. So, if there's new research, I have to know which ships use it to upgrade.

Am I missing something here? With design on automatic, I'm constantly being asked if I want to spend the money to upgrade everything that uses that technology. If I turn automation off that all goes away?

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/10/2013 12:50:49 AM   
Shadow Tiger


Posts: 61
Joined: 2/18/2012
Status: offline 		If you turn the automation off for designs then any new components you research need to be added to the design manually. Any research that upgrades existing technology is retroactively applied to every single ship and base you currently have. So for maxxo blasters you would suddenly being doing 6 instead of 5 damage and have the range increased as well. But if you research impact blasters you would have to go back and change the design then build new bases, or retrofit existing ships/starports to use the new weapons.

For the vanilla dw and rots, to keep your mining bases armed you have to keep the designs on manual. The armed bases only showed up in the latest patch for legends. Unless the latest rots patch added that as well, I haven't checked. It also means that if you make new designs then to use them on your old mining bases you have to scrap then and build new ones. Only star ports at a colony can be upgraded unfortunately.

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/10/2013 7:57:08 AM   
Sirian


Posts: 174
Joined: 11/29/2012
Status: offline 		True, mining bases are armed in DWL, but not in a way that they can properly defend themselves. I usually add 5-6 Lasers, 2 missiles and a few shields to the designs to keep them competitive. They also get 3 mining engines each. For upgrading mining bases, scrapping and rebuilding is far too much hassle for me, I use:

Upgrade by pirate method: If the base survives a pirate attack -> good. If not, I build a new one using the latest design, which is continually upgraded as new tech is discovered. So after some time I have strong bases in insecure areas and weak bases in secure aresa.

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Post #: 8
RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/10/2013 11:37:10 AM   
RockKahn

 

Posts: 165
Joined: 10/27/2011
From: USA
Status: offline 		Thanks Shadow Tiger for explaining how automatic/manual design affects ships and bases getting updated.

Thanks Sirian for the advice.

I don't have Legends, yet, but it looks like I need to manually add armaments to my stations with either version.

quote:

It also means that if you make new designs then to use them on your old mining bases you have to scrap then and build new ones

quote:

Upgrade by pirate method: If the base survives a pirate attack -> good.


Yes, the pirates have been doing a good job of scrapping my mining stations for me.




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Post #: 9
RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/10/2013 10:01:56 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		I don't play a lot of games, but I think that with starting tech and some handicaps, it is very hard to hold to more than a very few mines at the start, unless pirates for some reason forget that you exist. Or you bribe them :)

But with handicaps affording bribes is not so easy either. What are handicaps? Maybe having the opposition one tech level higher at the start, and running hard settings with reduced quality on the capital. With more money one can afford more defense, but I feel that I still need some tech to be comfortable.

It is a bit "off" that what is possibly the hardest point of the game is the first hing a newbie is likely to meet :) Newbies should not start with handicaps, though...

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Post #: 10
RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/10/2013 11:28:41 PM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1986
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline 		Does mean you have to keep the design updated but the once these are on the map it saves a lot of time worrying about them. These are the Mk1 designs aim for torpedoes or missiles ASAP and get them added to the design, 5 torpedoes added to these designs as quickly as possible makes them practically pirate proof. Just remember to upgrade the designs as soon as you have the tech because they are built by constructors and they do tend to be a bit slow on the build process, due to game constraints you cant upgrade the stations once built but if they do get taken out (rare, very rare) if you keep the designs updated the newest design is built anyway also if you use these as auto designs for your race when you start the game you will have a couple of Mk1's already in operation which saves a lot of hassle in protecting them. Ive seen the later Mk5's (good shields, better torpedoes etc) make mincemeat of small fleets.

Darkspire

P.S The med and rec center are not needed, I put them on there as the folks on there must have accidents and also need something to do off shift



< Message edited by Darkspire -- 1/10/2013 11:58:36 PM >

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/11/2013 2:08:13 AM   
feelotraveller


Posts: 1040
Joined: 9/12/2011
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: RockKahn

I need some advice on protecting my unarmed mining stations.

Also, the game builds mining stations on it own, right? I don't see anywhere stop automation of mining station building, so I'll know when new ones are built and can send frigates immediately to protect it.




For the latter you can take manual control of your constructors. Select them and toggle their automation off. This allows you to specify not only where you want your bases built but also to custom build them to your own liking. Set up like this you will get announcements when your contructors finish their build base (and other) missions. (Pro tip if you watch them closely sometimes you will notice them finish their jobs some time before they tell you. )

I have a somewhat different method from others for base protection. I figure I will lose some of them (especially early on) and hence build them unarmed. Makes them cheaper to build and maintain and sucks less resources so I've got extra that I can afford to lose. I usually throw on an extra shield or two if doing so will give the chance for a response force to arrive in time. Then I try to station ships nearby. Generally you only need one fleet per system so if you can group a bunch of mines in one then that is great. I do not give patrol orders for the defence fleet but order them to 'move to' a body and then let them idle. This way they preserve their fuel supplies much longer and will be on hand when trouble starts. Gas mines are often high value targets for pirates so often I will station them there, or on a base which it would hurt for me to lose (e.g. only source of carbon fibre). If there is no clear priority for defending one base over the others in a system I will often station the defence force over the star.

When I do arm mining base I try to use fighter bays as these upgrade and stay pretty effective for much longer in the game.

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/15/2013 3:12:38 AM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Darkspire


Yes, you need recreational facilities on this thing... it has the firepower/shields of a level 2/3 Light Cruiser...
You must give pirates some headaches...
If they are STUPID enough to attack that, I think the AI needs a little tweak.


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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/15/2013 3:15:43 AM   
tjhkkr


Posts: 2428
Joined: 6/3/2010
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: feelotraveller
I have a somewhat different method from others for base protection. I figure I will lose some of them (especially early on) and hence build them unarmed. Makes them cheaper to build and maintain and sucks less resources so I've got extra that I can afford to lose. I usually throw on an extra shield or two if doing so will give the chance for a response force to arrive in time. Then I try to station ships nearby.
When I do arm mining base I try to use fighter bays as these upgrade and stay pretty effective for much longer in the game.


Yes, a frigate squadron in the same system does wonders!
And fighter bays are a good idea.


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Remember that the evil which is now in the world will become yet more powerful, and that it is not evil which conquers evil, but only love -- Olga Romanov.

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Post #: 14
RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/15/2013 11:34:18 AM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1986
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

Yes, you need recreational facilities on this thing... it has the firepower/shields of a level 2/3 Light Cruiser...
You must give pirates some headaches...
If they are STUPID enough to attack that, I think the AI needs a little tweak.



If you make the design a 'Pre-loaded Optimized Design' at the start of a game you have these as default, saves so much time not worrying about them. As I mentioned though you need to add five torpedoes and upgrade the reactor ASAP, thanks for the feedback I just noticed I had not updated the blueprint, on the mining design the fission reactor should be 6 and the energy collector should be 10, I was trying to still get the same effect with less resource cost but found that the defaults on the gas mining design are the best and forgot to update the blueprint.

You think these are powerful you should see the research centers I don't have any labs on spaceports, much more fun trying to find research locations and even more fun defending them!

Darkspire

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/15/2013 5:18:11 PM   
jpwrunyan


Posts: 558
Joined: 12/3/2011
From: Uranus
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

Yes, you need recreational facilities on this thing... it has the firepower/shields of a level 2/3 Light Cruiser...
You must give pirates some headaches...
If they are STUPID enough to attack that, I think the AI needs a little tweak.



I don't understand the Recreational Facility. Can someone explain?

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/15/2013 7:07:00 PM   
Bingeling

 

Posts: 5186
Joined: 8/12/2010
Status: offline 		Why recreational? Probably to spend even more money on bloated mining bases. It is hard to keep the maintenance up, you know :)

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/15/2013 7:09:13 PM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1986
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: tjhkkr

Yes, you need recreational facilities on this thing... it has the firepower/shields of a level 2/3 Light Cruiser...
You must give pirates some headaches...
If they are STUPID enough to attack that, I think the AI needs a little tweak.



I don't understand the Recreational Facility. Can someone explain?


Its just me having a blonde moment

Picture a lone default DW mining station in orbit around a barren rock in the deep of space ...

Miner #1 - "Well that's me finished, that was a a heavy shift"
Miner #2 - "I've finished my shift as well. What shall we do?"
Miner #1 - "Well we could always play eye spy from the observation lounge?"
Miner #2 - "Oh no not that, S for star or P for planet. We need a recreational component!"

Well thats how I was seeing it the recreational component is not needed, I just thought that being stuck out there with nothing to do except laugh at the exploding pirates and play eye spy would get old really quick so I put one in with the design, as I said, It and the med center are not needed, it just added a bit more logic to the design from my end.

quote:

ORIGINAL: Bingeling

Why recreational? Probably to spend even more money on bloated mining bases. It is hard to keep the maintenance up, you know :)


The maintenance costs dont really come into it, as long as the state income is a little more than the private one and both amounts are increased equally than you don't really notice, adding the long range scanner and other bits to the mining designs as well has never really caused me any problems and on a 1400 /huge I have quite a few of them and never noticed a problem with cash flow.

Darkspire

< Message edited by Darkspire -- 1/15/2013 7:16:50 PM >

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/16/2013 3:17:52 AM   
jpwrunyan


Posts: 558
Joined: 12/3/2011
From: Uranus
Status: offline 		OIC

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/22/2013 8:17:46 PM   
sventhebold


Posts: 360
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: From MN now AZ Prescott Valley
Status: offline 		I always found putting more blasters/shields on them are nice but the finisher was the 3X area effect weapons that STRIP the shields off said pirate and the gunnery crews can have a field day. Plus if it is a real hot zone a hyper deny on the mine and a ship or two on standby they cant get away fast enough. POOF!

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/24/2013 4:03:05 PM   
Star_Eraser

 

Posts: 13
Joined: 1/17/2013
Status: offline 		As much as I like your roleplay of the thing for the mining stations I prefer to reserve it only for my colony ships.

I mean, seriously?

30M (up to 100M) people in a single ship, without any medical center nor a recreational facility. What the hell? xD

I like to imagine that there is very few people in the mining stations, since everything should be mechanized. We're not in early 19th century, there is only a handful of people in mining facilities just doing maintenance work. But 30M people and no entertainment? ...

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/24/2013 6:18:44 PM   
StarLab


Posts: 844
Joined: 8/27/2012
From: Ontario, Canada
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: sventhebold

I always found putting more blasters/shields on them are nice but the finisher was the 3X area effect weapons that STRIP the shields off said pirate and the gunnery crews can have a field day. Plus if it is a real hot zone a hyper deny on the mine and a ship or two on standby they cant get away fast enough. POOF!


Does Hyper Deny work on mining (or any) stations? I briefly tried that a while ago and didn't see any results, so I scrapped the idea. Figured they only worked on ships. Am I wrong?


< Message edited by StarLab -- 1/24/2013 6:19:19 PM >

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/25/2013 1:48:31 AM   
Darkspire


Posts: 1986
Joined: 6/12/2003
From: My Own Private Hell
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Star_Eraser

As much as I like your roleplay of the thing for the mining stations I prefer to reserve it only for my colony ships.

I mean, seriously?

30M (up to 100M) people in a single ship, without any medical center nor a recreational facility. What the hell? xD

I like to imagine that there is very few people in the mining stations, since everything should be mechanized. We're not in early 19th century, there is only a handful of people in mining facilities just doing maintenance work. But 30M people and no entertainment? ...


I would imagine that they would be in cryosleep and not require those facilities, I mean that is an awful lot of folks, you would another ship to carry the food for them let alone all the new colony bits. As for those folks on the mining rig, they would still need a rec center and a med lab even if it was a small crew, either that or it's back to eye spy or watching the pirates explode.

Darkspire

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/26/2013 12:52:24 AM   
sventhebold


Posts: 360
Joined: 12/22/2006
From: From MN now AZ Prescott Valley
Status: offline 		I think i meant to say the ships have hyper deny so the pirate in question is already damaged and is trying to get away and the frigates (2 or 3) i assign have hyper deny and track him down and finish him off!

< Message edited by sventhebold -- 1/26/2013 12:53:14 AM >

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RE: Protecting Mining Stations - 1/26/2013 4:58:44 PM   
Shark7


Posts: 7937
Joined: 7/24/2007
From: The Big Nowhere
Status: offline 		tjhkkr:

The recreational facility and medical bay are not needed at all. People who design this way want a bit of 'role play' by adding them as they would be realistic on a station of, well...any type. I do it as well, only because it 'feels' right.

Does that make sense of it?

< Message edited by Shark7 -- 1/26/2013 5:02:42 PM >

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