Slitherine

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ORIGINAL: netjam99
That has me thinking the WitP AE curriculum for sure would equal a second level history course covering in the WWII in the Pacific. Then as a bonus the equivalent of a introductory course in logistics...perhaps the following?

HIST 202 War in the Pacific
LOGT 102 Logistics Management in Pacific Theatre

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ORIGINAL: dr.hal

At the risk of being drawn and quartered I don't fully agree with Alfred. The game can act as a real trigger for more in-depth study and if one tags some research assignments on to this, then it could be argued that some real learning is going on. All writing and research of events is an abstraction. Some much better than others. So if this aids in the accumulation of knowledge, then it can be seen as a form of education. I recall playing my first board game "Midway" and this lead me to read Walter Lord's book. The rest is history (pun intended). Maybe Matrix Games should run this by the ACE for a review! Hal

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ORIGINAL: Symon

quote:

ORIGINAL: netjam99
That has me thinking the WitP AE curriculum for sure would equal a second level history course covering in the WWII in the Pacific. Then as a bonus the equivalent of a introductory course in logistics...perhaps the following?

HIST 202 War in the Pacific
LOGT 102 Logistics Management in Pacific Theatre

I think netjam99 has the right of it. Although I might give the logistics course a 202.

Ciao JWE

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ORIGINAL: linrom

I strongly disagree with Alfred. Matrix has made this game into ahistorical mumble jumble. This is one of the reasons why so many players have to spend countless hours messing around with the editor trying to undo to what Matrix did--to make this game more historical and playable.

I have to SECOND guess and research almost all of the IJA and IJN OOB because I do not trust the game. This is not what I indented to do. But yes my research work is equivalent to a college course on Japanese WWII history because of Matrix game design---they're like Hollywood producers who gave us such classics as their own version of Battle of the Bulge.

But foremeost the most astounding short sided decision to me that Matrix made is to do as little coding as possible and let the game engine do the rest( the game engine does not have any AI capability, it relies on dice rolls, good grief)--that's why one can't achieve anything resembling historical accuracy.

So if you want history, you have to look up what really happened and hence you get an education in Pacific War II.

quote:

ORIGINAL: linrom

I strongly disagree with Alfred. Matrix has made this game into ahistorical mumble jumble. This is one of the reasons why so many players have to spend countless hours messing around with the editor trying to undo to what Matrix did--to make this game more historical and playable.

I have to SECOND guess and research almost all of the IJA and IJN OOB because I do not trust the game. This is not what I indented to do. But yes my research work is equivalent to a college course on Japanese WWII history because of Matrix game design---they're like Hollywood producers who gave us such classics as their own version of Battle of the Bulge.

But foremeost the most astounding short sided decision to me that Matrix made is to do as little coding as possible and let the game engine do the rest( the game engine does not have any AI capability, it relies on dice rolls, good grief)--that's why one can't achieve anything resembling historical accuracy.

So if you want history, you have to look up what really happened and hence you get an education in Pacific War II.

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ORIGINAL: dr.hal

When I first saw the electronic version of the game (remember I saw the board version a LONG time ago) I did think it would be a good "strategic simulation" game for a college course ...

Stratford, Connecticut, U.S.A.

"The Angel of Okinawa"

Home of the Chance-Vought Corsair, F4U
The best fighter-bomber of World War II

quote:

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

When I first saw the electronic version of the game (remember I saw the board version a LONG time ago) I did think it would be a good "strategic simulation" game for a college course. And yes Alfred, I did see it as very much needing a "reality checker" involved (much like most wargames have umpires). There are certain aspects of this game that are normally not simulated to any degree or depth. The abstraction of supply is a good example. This game at least makes an attempt at both tactical and strategic supply, something most games totally ignore. It also attempts (albeit poorly) to replicate discord between commands WITHIN a side, let alone between sides. This aspects would make an interesting simulation over the course of a semester or two. So I can see value in it not just for the stimulation it triggers in those of us who follow up with real research, but also to reveal to players the importance of supply, upgrades, wear and tear, etc. that most games ignore. Does it reflect reality, no, of course not, I wasn't suggesting that it does. But could it give players a feel for a strategic narrative, I think it could. I would love to take a relatively small class, say about 12-15 and divide them up and give them commands and allow only paper communications, etc. I would also throw in umpire controlled caveats to the play. I think it could be fun AND instructive, a rare combination in college classrooms (electronic or face to face) today.

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel



I will say the geography lesson is pretty intense. I'm sure I didn't know the wherabouts of places like Ndeni, Port Headland, Mersing, and Lanchow until I started this monstrous and magnificent game.

After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
Now CIV IV has me in it's evil clutches!

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I'd sign on as JFB associate professor.

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ORIGINAL: dr.hal

Folks,

I never meant to imply that the game ALONE could be a college course; it can not. However after teach MANY college courses at the undergrad and graduate level, this game could definitely be incorporated into a long term project for credit, proving the theory that not all college courses need to be dull and dreary! You could infuse papers into this project, team work, leadership and a whole litany of other "objectives" all of which could be measured. I fully agree with what has been said about the limits and effectiveness to the game's abstractions of "the real thing" but all such learning is an abstraction unless you are present at the event and even then you "learn" only from your limited view of the event, you discover the other aspects through research, formal or informal. When I was talking with Karlis a few years ago, that was one of our topics we discussed and it was given serious consideration. Maybe it will yet happen!

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And I certainly have a position for Chickenboy in this hypothetical game, commanding officer of the war production effort from Hiroshima!

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ORIGINAL: Canoerebel

Huge AE fan here, but Alfred's large point is right. This game is a game, not a college-level course.

There are things I have learned through the game, primarily (1) names of units; (2) geography; and (3) the huge importance of planning and logistics (in fact, no college course could teach the latter - only real life experience could, with a monster game like AE coming next in line).

I will say the geography lesson is pretty intense. I'm sure I didn't know the wherabouts of places like Ndeni, Port Headland, Mersing, and Lanchow until I started this monstrous and magnificent game.

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ORIGINAL: pws1225

This game is nothing like college. If it were, there'd be way more beer swilling and late night carousing going on. WitPAE players are way more sophisticated than that, aren't we?