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Time of Fury 1.04 beta

 
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Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/25/2013 12:04:57 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		You can download beta version of 1.04 here:

http://www2.wastelands-interactive.com/shared/ToF104patch.zip

quote:

2013-01-25 [v1.04]
--Fixes
ChangeSMP event's method now correctly changes the values of SMP
Entrenchemnt bonus now removed just after the unit has moved, not at the end of turn
Game can be always running in Quick Start mode as Allies
Fixed display o the Deffenders effective strength value
Fixed supply distribution problems

--Events
Added new method for events Hex.AddFrozenLandUnitAndPassControlOverHexIfEmpty (int hexX, int hexY, int countryID, int unitType, int unitLevel, int unitStrength, int turnsfrozen, name)

--Gameplay
Soviet effectivity reduction impact decreased by 50% and probability to recover increased 3 times
Winter War most probably end after Soviets capture of Helsinki or Vyborg (715)
Soviets social unrest now will gain 50% hit (was 10%) if Winter War peace won't be accepted (335)

--Features
Nukes are now aquired every four months instead of each month (moddable)
Nuclear report added to the reports

--AI
AI now uses the Nuclear Bombs more eagerly



This is .zip version, which means you have to uznip it and overwrite other files.

Please note that this version can cause crashes and full stability is not guaranteed.


IMPORTANT NOTE:
1.04 is not compatibile with previous versions of the game, so you won't be able to load your old save games.

_____________________________
Post #: 1
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/25/2013 3:48:57 PM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/1/2011
From: United States
Status: offline 		Still no joy on the crashes. Same configuration as the last thread.


Having just experienced the never-ending Winter War on my human.v.human solitaire v.102 game I recommend the following change to event 715. Justification is that other factors were pressuring Finland to settle even if the Soviets do not have geographic success. In my run through, the Finns suffered enormous casualties they were able to absorb because of all of the aid received.

<or>
<!-- Vyborg controlled by Soviets-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByCountry" param0="169" param1="43" param2="3"/>
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
<!-- Helsinki controlled by Soviets-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Hex.ControlledByCountry" param0="161" param1="44" param2="3"/>
<operator value="equals"/>
<rightOperand constValue="1"/>
</expression>
<!-- 12 weeks have passed-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Flag.GetValue" param0="701"/>
<!-- recommend adding operator list to EVENT_ENGINE_MANUAL -->
<operator value="GE"/>
<rightOperand constValue="12"/>
</expression>
</or>

Note also that XMLNotepad detected an error in events_07_finland.xml on line 855
<!--Option 1 in event 8003 - territorial_demands_soviets_finland.xml
should be
<!--Option 1 in event 8003 - territorial_demands_soviets_finland.xml-->


And finally, to help keep the Soviets honest, I propose a social unrest event for a long Winter War.
<!--Long Winter War unrest -->
<event eventID="XXX" countryID="3" visibleByPlayer="1" oneTimeChecking="1">
<title>ZID_XXX_title</title>
<description>ZID_XXX_desc</description>
<beginDate day="1" month="9" year="1939" />
<condition>
<and>
<!--Country is active-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Country.IsActive" param0="3" />
<operator value="equals" />
<rightOperand constValue="1" />
</expression>
<!--Finland is active-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Country.IsActive" param0="7" />
<operator value="equals" />
<rightOperand constValue="1" />
</expression>
<!-- 8 weeks have passed in Winter War-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Flag.GetValue" param0="701" />
<!-- recommend adding operator list to EVENT_ENGINE_MANUAL -->
<operator value="GE" />
<rightOperand constValue="8" />
</expression>
<!--War has not ended-->
<expression>
<leftOperand method="Flag.GetValue" param0="715" />
<operator value="equals" />
<rightOperand constValue="0" />
</expression>
</and>
</condition>
<options>
<option optionID="2" chanceAI="1">
<description>
<!--Social unrest is increasing because of the long Winter War-->ZID_XXX_op1</description>
<tooltip>
<!--Social unrest is increasing because of the long Winter War-->ZID_XXX_desc1</tooltip>
<effects>
<!--Social unrest increased by 2 (or whatever is appropriate)-->
<effect method="Country.ChangeSocialUnrest" param0="7" param1="2" />
</effects>
</option>
</options>
</event>


(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 2
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/25/2013 4:08:59 PM   
borsook79


Posts: 477
Joined: 6/29/2008
Status: offline 		Wait a minute... 1.04 beta??? What happened to 1.03? It was never officially released... Are we going to get only betas now?

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Post #: 3
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/25/2013 6:34:25 PM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/1/2011
From: United States
Status: offline 		The problem with the next release is they have a nasty little stability problem where it crashes in some situations. These types of problems can be incredibly difficult to find and fix. So whoever is responsible for fixing it slogs along whilst other members of the team work through other items on the to do list. These other enhancements can be examined by those of us for whom this release is stable (sadly not me).

(in reply to borsook79)
Post #: 4
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/25/2013 8:46:35 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline 		Can 1.04b be installed over the initial v1.0., or does it have to be applied to a later version of the game.

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to rmonical)
Post #: 5
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/25/2013 10:03:33 PM   
gwgardner

 

Posts: 6722
Joined: 4/7/2006
Status: offline 		1.04 also fixes the extension of leader bonuses to units within range.

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 6
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/25/2013 11:34:13 PM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa

Can 1.04b be installed over the initial v1.0., or does it have to be applied to a later version of the game.


The patch is comprahensive.
As always

_____________________________


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Post #: 7
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/26/2013 6:22:04 PM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/1/2011
From: United States
Status: offline 		Tried it on another Machine - Dell Dimension 650 Win 7 Pro 4 GB & NVidea GeForce 6200 with 512 MB memory - this is a single monitor configuration. Still no joy.

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 8
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/26/2013 9:19:27 PM   
Rasputitsa


Posts: 2903
Joined: 6/30/2001
From: Bedfordshire UK
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader
quote:

ORIGINAL: Rasputitsa
Can 1.04b be installed over the initial v1.0., or does it have to be applied to a later version of the game.


The patch is comprahensive.
As always

Working OK so far, patching v1.0 fresh install with 1.04 beta. Installed under a new name, keeping the earlier versions of the game active to continue playing saved games.

Toshiba Satellite Laptop, Windows 7 Home Premium - 64 bit, 4GB RAM, Nvidia GeForce GT 330M


< Message edited by Rasputitsa -- 1/26/2013 9:28:20 PM >

_____________________________

"In politics stupidity is not a handicap" - Napoleon

“A people which is able to say everything becomes able to do everything” - Napoleon

“Among those who dislike oppression are many who like to oppress" - Napoleon

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 9
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/27/2013 5:12:53 AM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline 		So I rolled back to 1.02 from 1.03b andwas able to play without crashing so far. I would like to try the 1.04 beta. Do I go over my already installed game, or do I re-install from 1.00? Any suggestions? If I had crash problems with 1.03b, will I automatically have crash problems with 1.04 beta?

_____________________________

JRR

(in reply to Rasputitsa)
Post #: 10
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta & Winter war - 1/27/2013 4:05:29 PM   
RandomAttack


Posts: 235
Joined: 7/23/2009
From: Arizona
Status: offline 		I've routinely just installed the patches over my existing install and have never had a problem. New patch is working well for me, although only limited use so far-- damn chores!!

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 11
Waiting for Mr Goodbar - 1/27/2013 4:59:11 PM   
Omnius


Posts: 833
Joined: 6/22/2012
From: Salinas, CA
Status: offline 		I think I'm going to wait for the official 1.04 version to come out. I'm done with trying out beta versions of Time of Fury since the scenarios are so long and compatibility with newer versions seems poor. Just hate starting games that I can't finish because the next patch version bombs the saved game. Until then it's back to playing around with Strategic War in Europe.

Glad to see the entrechment bonus bug I reported in Strategic War in Europe also get fixed in ToF.

Glad to see the nuke fixes made in SWiE appear in ToF. Like SWiE you are not reporting changes to the effects of nukes. Did you reduce the blast range to one hex for the elimination of units? Did you reduce the social unrest percentages the same way you did in SWiE to 6% for the nuked country and 3% for it's allies? If so you need to document this info better isntead of forcing players to find out the hard way. If not you need to make it the same as SWiE.

Glad to see the Finland problem get some fixing. Vyborg should be the trigger to ending the Soviet/Finland War, not Helsinki. If you let the USSR take Helsinki or Petsamo you leave Finland as a worthless rump state, that's why Vyborg should be the trigger to ending that war. Or if the Soviet AI or human dithers the way the AI used to taking Finland then there needs to be a historical date deadline that triggers the Finland event and awards the USSR the same territory it got historically. I like that social unrest penalty if the Soviet player doesn't accept a Finnish peace deal.

What about Norway? Last I looked in version 1.03 beta 1 that was a total mess for Germany. I saw the German AI DoW Norway several times but never take the country. You need some kind of Quisling event so that the German AI can conquer Norway and garrison it properly. It should be like the Crete event where Germany pays a price in PP's and gets to conquer Norway automatically with garrisons. One of the dumbest things in SWiE is that the German AI DoW's Norway and is awarded the country automatically but it gets no garrison so a clever Brtiish player can have units ready on AIP's and invade on the same turn Norway turns German. This Quisling event should be available for humans as well since invading Norway really isn't worth the expense for Germany.

To be honest because of the way Norway and Finland have been modeled I'd rather just start with the 1941 campaign. The other thing I didn't like about the 1939 campaign is the poor modeling of starting tech levels and the beggar's banquet of PP's that do not allow players to reach the 1941 campign tech levels. Despite some poor historical starting aspects of the 1941 campaign I'd rather start with those limitations than waste time starting from 1939 trying to do better. One thing about SWiE that I like over ToF is that in SWiE on normal level there is more PP's left after upkeep, I like how low the upkeep is in SWiE compared to how high it is in ToF compared to the production. Plus minor countries have a better tech level and the USA has the nuclear research well under way, the best of any annual start.

Please fix the British, British Colony and Iraqi convoy routing so that they always route around Africa, the way it was in version 1.02. If we humans play the Allies then you make it somewhat harder because of the horrible changes made in 1.03 that run all convoys through the Med where they get slaughtered by both German and Italian subs. When we let the AI play the Allies then you make it much easier on us human Axis players because we know we can stop the AI's from sending any convoys the rest of the game once we stop a couple of them with huge losses. Even if it costs more transports, and it should, I'd be happy if at a minimum convoy routing was like version 1.02 around Africa. Malta would be the one Med destination that should route through the Med from England through Gibraltar.

Last but not least I sure wish we could have a 1945 scenario like we have in SWiE.
Omnius

(in reply to RandomAttack)
Post #: 12
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 6:03:53 AM   
JLPOWELL


Posts: 411
Joined: 5/5/2011
From: Pacific Time Zone
Status: offline 		Doom,

Is this the place for 1.04 beta bugs or should I post in tech support?

At any rate the supply for air units is broken in this version. Tested Gotterdamerung scenario and all allied Air units are getting very strange supply sources (most are getting virtually no supply at all and cannot rebase.)

A couple of examples:

UK 202/500 Squadron shows "supply 1 from Ipswich" Unit is located two hexes from Glasgow (which is connected to MSS)

UK No 18 Group shows "1 supply from Edinburgh" and is located 2 hex from London (MSS)

Similar results found for USSR USA and Free French air units (one French unit is getting supply from Sirt LOL; not near unit and not a port and not connected to anything.)

FOW was on so I didn't see the Axis stuff but suspect it is universal (also suspect AI is not affected by air supply restrictions)

I ran for a few turns to see if the supply recalculation at start of turn would resolve this but it did not.

Otherwise build looks pretty good for an early beta.




< Message edited by JLPOWELL -- 1/28/2013 6:05:40 AM >

_____________________________

"Don’t you think that if I were wrong, I’d know it?"

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Post #: 13
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 9:11:02 AM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		JLPOWELL, this thread is fine.

Does the supply of land units is calculated properly?

_____________________________


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Post #: 14
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 3:25:30 PM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: JLPOWELL

Doom,

Is this the place for 1.04 beta bugs or should I post in tech support?

At any rate the supply for air units is broken in this version. Tested Gotterdamerung scenario and all allied Air units are getting very strange supply sources (most are getting virtually no supply at all and cannot rebase.)

A couple of examples:

UK 202/500 Squadron shows "supply 1 from Ipswich" Unit is located two hexes from Glasgow (which is connected to MSS)

UK No 18 Group shows "1 supply from Edinburgh" and is located 2 hex from London (MSS)

Similar results found for USSR USA and Free French air units (one French unit is getting supply from Sirt LOL; not near unit and not a port and not connected to anything.)

FOW was on so I didn't see the Axis stuff but suspect it is universal (also suspect AI is not affected by air supply restrictions)

I ran for a few turns to see if the supply recalculation at start of turn would resolve this but it did not.



JLPOWELL, this thread is fine.

Does the supply of land units is calculated properly?

I have had the EXACT SAME EXPERIENCE! I upgraded this weekend, and wasn't sure if it was an upgrade glitch, so I tried twice and played as the allies both times. I used the custom settings once, and the quickstart once. I was going to ask if this had happened to anyone else, then I read JLPOWELL's thread! I at first thought I had not upgraded properly, as I went over my existing 1.02. I think I will roll back and wait for an official final version. I still like this game and feel it has a lot to offer, but wonder why the fixes are so buggy (I realize that they are beta)?


_____________________________

JRR

(in reply to JLPOWELL)
Post #: 15
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 3:29:27 PM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline 		The land units seem to be supplied normally, at least within their own home countries. I will take a closer look at the land units on foreign soil.

_____________________________

JRR

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Post #: 16
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 4:22:33 PM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/1/2011
From: United States
Status: offline 		Posting here because i cannot reply to Doomtrader PM. --> Undeliverable PM: doomtrader's PM storage is full


All is good here in Monical-land. Operator error - I traded the data directory instead of merged.
My Games\Time of Fury\ConsoleOut.txt is all knowing for those experiencing startup problems.

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 17
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 7:06:37 PM   
Grimnirsson


Posts: 132
Joined: 12/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

since the scenarios are so long


Yep, it's one thing that this supposed to be great game is taking so long with patch after patch (but I appreciate that there are patches showing up to improve what the initial design simply lacked) but it really needs some smaller scenarios. Any possibility that more scens (smaller ones that is) will be made available?

_____________________________


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Post #: 18
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 7:45:01 PM   
elmerlee

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		This is out of control.
Patches fix one thing and break something else.
Hard to believe that some feel that version 1.0 is the best version after all this time.
I heard some time ago that most of the original developers left the company.
If you ever tried to reprogram someone else code you grasp why this is happening.
In my opinion this game is never going to get much,if any,better no matter how much effort goes into it.
I guess we might as well monkey with what we have but I for on will not by another game from this outfit.

Yes,they have tried.

(in reply to Grimnirsson)
Post #: 19
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 7:54:06 PM   
Grimnirsson


Posts: 132
Joined: 12/25/2011
Status: offline
quote:

This is out of control.


I hear ya, but...

quote:

Patches fix one thing and break something else.


At least they are patching the game instead of letting it die...


quote:

Hard to believe that some feel that version 1.0 is the best version after all this time.


When the game was published it was NOT a finished product. My wife and I bought it over a year ago and after our first steps we stopped because the patches started to come out...we are waiting for the last and final patch.

quote:

I heard some time ago that most of the original developers left the company.


No rumors please...source?

quote:

If you ever tried to reprogram someone else code you grasp why this is happening.
In my opinion this game is never going to get much,if any,better no matter how much effort goes into it.
I guess we might as well monkey with what we have but I for on will not by another game from this outfit.

Yes,they have tried.


There are only two options. Either we all think it's all a waste of time and money and move on to other games or we think about why we bought it in the first place. This game has some very interesting concepts and it promised to deliver but failed...however if the the designer(s) are still working on it it may end as the game we all hoped for when we bought it. Having faith in them seems to be the only option, no? :)



_____________________________


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Post #: 20
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 8:23:54 PM   
JLPOWELL


Posts: 411
Joined: 5/5/2011
From: Pacific Time Zone
Status: offline 		Land supply looks good.
quote:

ORIGINAL: doomtrader

JLPOWELL, this thread is fine.

Does the supply of land units is calculated properly?

quote:

Does the supply of land units is calculated properly?


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Post #: 21
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/28/2013 9:18:07 PM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline 		I agree with Grimnirsson that "This game has some very interesting concepts and it promised to deliver but failed...however if the the designer(s) are still working on it it may end as the game we all hoped for when we bought it." I will say that when I purchased this game I had higher standards in mind for the finished product. I also understand elmerlee's position that "I guess we might as well monkey with what we have but I for on will not by another game from this outfit." I will think long and hard before I purchase another game from this developer. All that being said, I REALLY LIKE THIS GAME, and if anyone knows a way to fix the air unit supply problem, I'm interested in giving it a shot. I would like to give 1.04 a longer time to see if it works better before rolling back to 1.02 again. Anyone?

_____________________________

JRR

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Post #: 22
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/29/2013 2:30:21 AM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/1/2011
From: United States
Status: offline 		What is going on with air unit rebasing? Sometimes I can and sometimes I cannot. Is there a new feature or should I submit more information?

It looks like the new siege feature requires all surrounding hexes to be occupied but does not require at least one combat. Correct?

I assume that the air unit supply problem greatly reduces the effectiveness of tacair. For Poland, I am not bothering to use it as the cost it too high for the benefit gained. In grand campaign turn 5 - German air units at 138 88 and 139 89 are supplied From Klaipeda at 8 and 7 respectively. The one at 139 90 gets 9 from Hamm.

< Message edited by rmonical -- 1/29/2013 3:00:10 AM >

(in reply to baloo7777)
Post #: 23
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/29/2013 4:54:54 AM   
baloo7777


Posts: 1190
Joined: 5/18/2009
From: eastern CT
Status: offline
quote:

ORIGINAL: rmonical

What is going on with air unit rebasing? Sometimes I can and sometimes I cannot. Is there a new feature or should I submit more information?

It looks like the new siege feature requires all surrounding hexes to be occupied but does not require at least one combat. Correct?

I assume that the air unit supply problem greatly reduces the effectiveness of tacair. For Poland, I am not bothering to use it as the cost it too high for the benefit gained. In grand campaign turn 5 - German air units at 138 88 and 139 89 are supplied From Klaipeda at 8 and 7 respectively. The one at 139 90 gets 9 from Hamm.


I think there is a minumum supply level for an air unit to be able to rebase. So if the air units supply is too low it cannot rebase. However, it seems to be able to use strategic movement?! (Moved on flat railcars, I guess, so no aviation fuel required)?

_____________________________

JRR

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Post #: 24
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/29/2013 5:45:50 AM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/1/2011
From: United States
Status: offline 		Grand Campaign first 20 turns of human.v.human solitaire play.

Air unit supply already mention - though a tacair unit did sink the ORP.
German SMP dropped to 0 after Polish campaign and did not recover.
Soviets are nerfed to the point they cannot win the Winter War.
Great Britain sends all of the carriers out after the u-boats. Lot's of hit. The location of the u-boat is frequently shown even when they do not get any hits.
Carriers got a hit on Atlantis after about 3 tries. No surface combat yet.

(in reply to doomtrader)
Post #: 25
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/29/2013 10:29:32 AM   
planetbrain


Posts: 88
Joined: 1/27/2006
Status: offline 		Seems to me that TOF now works with WIN8, though I don't have time for proper analysis atm.


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Post #: 26
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/29/2013 8:59:57 PM   
elmerlee

 

Posts: 309
Joined: 7/20/2004
Status: offline 		Geimnirsson.................


my original
I heard some time ago that most of the original developers left the company.
your answer
No rumors please...source?
my reply
Not a rumor but it told to me privately. Why not ask doomtrader?

my original
If you ever tried to reprogram someone else code you grasp why this is happening.
In my opinion this game is never going to get much,if any,better no matter how much effort goes into it.
I guess we might as well monkey with what we have but I for on will not by another game from this outfit.
Yes,they have tried.
your reply
There are only two options. Either we all think it's all a waste of time and money and move on to other games or we think about why we bought it in the first place. This game has some very interesting concepts and it promised to deliver but failed...however if the the designer(s) are still working on it it may end as the game we all hoped for when we bought it. Having faith in them seems to be the only option, no? :)
my answer
you say "however if the the designer(s) are still working on it "
I feel the designers flew the coop and whoever is left is just timkering with the text files.
Check wargamer site...Now doomtrader is talking about a "LARP" game, or some such thing, in the works.





As I have said before the game is

(in reply to planetbrain)
Post #: 27
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/29/2013 9:06:17 PM   
rmonical

 

Posts: 2474
Joined: 4/1/2011
From: United States
Status: offline 		Fall Gelb crashes on exit to main menu. Weird.

(in reply to elmerlee)
Post #: 28
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/31/2013 7:15:14 AM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline 		Actually the game was most stable and completed after 1.01.
I think that was the moment where we could stop developing it further and only focus on patching those minor glitches that has left.

But we have decided to introduce some huge changes on players requests in 1.02.
This causes us a lot of problems which we have been trying to fix in 1.03 and now 1.04.


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Post #: 29
RE: Time of Fury 1.04 beta - 1/31/2013 7:16:53 AM   
doomtrader


Posts: 5321
Joined: 7/22/2008
From: Poland
Status: offline
quote:

It looks like the new siege feature requires all surrounding hexes to be occupied but does not require at least one combat. Correct?

It has been always like that

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Post #: 30
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